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[Malin]

Some people have already made their minds up about TSPL without even seeing it. They think it's rubbish already.

Give us a reason to be optimistic about this expansion. To be honest I wasn't until reading this thread that bothered by the expansion as I viewed it as a quick fix to add much needed capacity to the Studios. But after reading that these new rides have a low capacity count each hour I am kind of disapointed that Management and WDI have not learnt from the mistakes made with Crush.

If Walt Disney had come up TSPL more people would have liked it. Just like they like the Tea Cups, Carousel and Flying Eliphants. Nobody minds the Flying Carpets in the Studios, but TSPL, oh no they can't do that.

No we like the Tea Cups and Dumbo because they help compliment Fantasyland and its many other attractions. Walt Disney was also not stupid enough as to build a new land and only stick in three carnival rides. Do you think everyone would be in such uproar on this issue if Toy Story Mania had also been part of the expansion phase. Also I recall many complaining about the Carpets when the park first opened.

[ed-uk]

I quess it depends on how you see it then. I certainly don't see why people should be so pessimistic about it. It is happening, they're building it, and I think Disney know a thing or two about theme parks and theme park design. I don't view Crush as a mistake myself, I think it's a very good ride. But yeah, you can end up queueing for it, just like at BTM or Space Mountain. We usually like to do Crush first thing in the morning before it gets too busy. I have no objection to Toy Story Mania. But it's hard to see how that would fit in any better with the film studios theme of the park. Maybe we'll get it one day. I can recall many complaining about the studios when it opened and it was mostly to do with the themeing and lack of rides. Just to add we haven't seen TSPL yet, only in pictures and models, and that's not the same thing as being in the park and experienceing it for ourselves. And TSPL is part of Toon Studio, it's not really a land in it's own right like Fantasyland or Adventureland. I think the word Toon sums it up, it is about cartoon characters, and Toy Story is a cartoon film albeit a Pixar cartoon.

[Malin]

I certainly don't see why people should be so pessimistic about it. It is happening, they're building it, and I think Disney know a thing or two about theme parks and theme park design.

Yeah because Disney's California Adventure, Walt Disney Studios Paris and Hong Kong Disneyland are perfect examples of this. Please remind me how much Disney has had to pay out in recent years on fixing up these park because the company misjudge its audience and its needs.

I don't view Crush as a mistake myself, I think it's a very good ride. But yeah, you can end up queueing for it, just like at BTM or Space Mountain. We usually like to do Crush first thing in the morning before it gets too busy.

Crush is a fun attraction and I'm not disputing this, but the ride wasn't built for the crowds that it attracts. BTM and SM can also post long waits but these usually only happen on peak days, but for Crush even on an average day you can still expect to wait up to 45 minutes. You, yourself have stated that you only ride it first thing in the morning because it gets to busy after that. With the new attractions like RC Racer only having an hourly capacity of about 600 Guest less than Crush, how is building Toy Story Playland going to be considered a positive move.

And TSPL is part of Toon Studio, it's not really a land in it's own right like Fantasyland or Adventureland. I think the word Toon sums it up, it is about cartoon characters, and Toy Story is a cartoon film albeit a Pixar cartoon.

Well in Hong Kong its described as a seperate land, so we must consider refering to it in the same at the Studios.

[SM:M3]

If you go mid week in January you probably wont have to queue up for anything.

nope, when we went in january this year, queues were 40 minutes on Space Mountain, 30 on Big Thunder, 80 on Crush, and quite long on some of the others

I think something is going to have be done though, queues on RC Racer will be ridiculous

[RnRCj]

Let's bear in mind that 600 riders per hour is only if everything runs perfectly. That involves riders boarding, securing restraints, going through the whole ride cycle, and unloading in exactly 3 minutes. Then think about problems that will regularly occur like disabled visitors, people deciding not to ride at the last minute, people throwing up, technical difficulties etc..

There's no way I would queue two hours to ride a short plain carnival ride, and I'm sure there will be lots of "regular" guests with the same frame of mind. Why bother queuing two hours for something we can get at any theme park when we have world-class attractions like Tower of Terror right next door?

[Willow]

I have been one of the most positive members of Magic Forum about the new additions, and I feel that that Disney are making many mistakes.

If Disney know so much about theme park design why are they placing 3 low capacity rides in an area of the park that is already full of low capacity rides?
I, and most other people realise, that this is a bad idea.

I just don't understand who is justifying these decisions, there are similar attractions available will almost double the capacity. Is it a financial issue? Or just poor decision making?

The problems of Walt Disney Studios will not go away by adding more low capacity attractions, there needs to be attractions of around 2000pph added.
Look at the queues Big Thunder Mountain gets, and its capacity is 4 times that of RC-Racer.

Another point to mention is the physical length of the queueline, methinks they could easily overflow during busy periods. It will make the area look very untidy.

The theme is fine, its the rediculous choice of ride-type that baffles me.
If future additions at WDS is of the same mould I will definitely start questioning if the management and if they are the right people in charge.

(As a side note, I really dislike the term "Carnival-rides" for numerous reasons)

[davewasbaloo]

It is very apparent to me that Disney has had it's epoch and will never be the same again.

I grew up with always being excited about the next attraction or animated feature. But instead, for the last few years, the gap has been narrowing.

My concern here is not whether something is to my taste or not. Heck, I think Mission Space is totally overrated, but I am still glad Disney had a try at it. It is the fact that they are installing something that isn't even as ambitious as the Thomasland installed in Drayton Manor UK and going into the Six Flags parks in Vallejo and So Cal, Massachusetts, Georgia and Maryland.

With the problems WDSP already has, and now the poor capacity of this section. This is not in the Disney spirit IMHO. Walt Disney wanted parks where everyone would have fun together. Most of the attractions until the 80's offered this. Now it's like - let's build something for the kids or the thrill seekers. Funny, they used to build something for everyone.

And i was in the resort when they tested the height balloons for RC Racer. This is going to be the first time you will be able to see exposed steel rides in themed environments where you should not be able to.

I don't want to sound pompous, but a lot of fans are looking for an amusement park experience to have fun with the family, and do not realise what makes DIsney great. And it is getting worse. So yes, I am an elitist. Disney used to be about so much more. It used to be about immersive themes, attention to detail, strong story telling, attractions for the whole family. This is the antithesis of this.

Carnival rides inspire no one. After 30+ years of being a scholar of Disney history, it really saddens me. As a kid, Disney experiences inspired me to learn more about zoology (Jungle Cruise), Piracy, the supernatural, physics, american history, about the world, and so much more. And I know from all the years of mingling with Disney fans that I am not alone.

Sadly, all these toon attractions may be fun, but I doubt they inspire many. They seem like cheap cash-ins with very little pay back.

And it is not even like they add much to the asthetics or capacity of the parks.

Hence my vorciferous anger. I feel cheated. I feel like Disney has totally lost it's way. I feel like I no longer have the respite I once had. And it makes me jaded and hateful of those who might be just as happy the following year going to a center parks or another amusement park. That is not what Disney is about. Whereas a decade or so, you could argue that Disney was for all ages, that is becoming the case less and less. Ya, my 6 and 4 year old may enjoy it now (but they enjoy the much closer Legoland just as much), with the current trajectory, they are likely to outgrow the parks. Back in the days where they were pushing the boundaries and creating real tomorrowlands, or new experiences in the other lands that did not revolve around marketing synergies for the children and tween market, that was not as likely to be the situation.

"When you're curious, you find lots of interesting things to do. And one thing it takes to accomplish something is courage." WD

Disney have lost their curiosity.

Walt Disney said "You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway." The company seem to have forgotten this also.

"Adults are interested if you don't play down to the little 2 or 3 year olds or talk down. I don't believe in talking down to children. I don't believe in talking down to any certain segment. I like to kind of just talk in a general way to the audience. Children are always reaching." Shame Disney no longer do.

"We believed in our idea - a family park where parents and children could have fun- together." There will be height restrictions, and this will put off a lot of older guests too.

"Disneyland is a show."

Where is the show in this new land?

[ed-uk]

I think the EuroDisney project in Europe is hugely ambitious. A resort the size of Disneyland Paris has never been tried in Europe before, in America maybe, but never in Europe. People can't say Disney have no ambition in this regard. DLP is Europes most popular tourist destination, and not for nothing. And what's possible in American might not turn out quite the same in Europe. Disneyland Paris is much more than any old amusement park experience. Nothing like Legoland, which isn't even open at the moment. TSPL is just a small part of WDS, and if the rumours of a dark ride based on Ratatouille come to fruition than I think Toon Studio will be very good. If you want a theme park based on educating people, then you would have to have it in many languages so everybody could understand it in Europe and learn.

[davewasbaloo]

I think Les Visionarium handled Edutainment and language very well. As does the tram tour or Moteurs Action. I have no beef about DLP circa 1992 or even 2000. But Buzz, Mission 2, TSPL and even Crush are huge mis-steps IMHO.

Despite the height restrictions, at least ToT is more Disney in it's execution. And although for a narrow demo, Playhouse Disney and Stitch Live were ok.

[davewasbaloo]

And DLP may be open, but I would never go in winter. It's too cold and more and more of the attractions and queues are being made outdoors. TSPL is not addressing that, it is in fact being made worse.

WDSP in winter is very unpleasant unless you are in Studio 1 or one of the theatre attractions.

[QTXAdsy]

You know what, i'm just going to give up my hopes on TSPL. And now I have had it of pixar rides (apart for Ratatouille which has been in the works for some time) appearing in the parks, Is this really the end of the Disney we know so well?    

If they announce yet another pixar ride for next year...I don't really want to talk about it. :-({|=

[davewasbaloo]

I don't mind quite as much if it is a pixar or trad Disney theme (though neither is even better - IMHO, the best attractions Disney have ever done are not tied to a Disney/Pixar theme - Phantom Manor, Big Thunder, Jungle Cruise, Indy in Cal and Tokyo, PotC, IASW, Space Mountain, Star Tours, Les Vis, Spaceship Earth (actually most of the Futureworld pavillions), American Adventure. Great Movie Ride, Moteurs Action, Cinemagique (a couple of hints), ToT, RNRC, Killemenjaro Safari and the trails, Grizzly River Rapids, Expedition Everest (though too many of these are thrills), Dinosaur, Soarin', Journey to the Centre of the Earth, 20k, Stormrider

The only exceptions in the last 30 years are perhaps Splash Mountain, Monsters Inc, and the Tokyo Pooh.

It is whether the stories are compelling and immersive that really matter. This TSPL is neither IMHO.

[davewasbaloo]

But it's your money folks. IF you want to spend a couple of grand on a hotel with poor maintenance and service, eat in homogenous buffets where people spread their germs over the bland food, and get excited out of marketting push of carnie rides, good for you. After all, PT Barnum said one was born every minute.

Personally, I would rather have a quality hotel experience for a fair price. Be able to have a selection of interesting places to dine. And have a rich tapestry of entertainment and shopping offerings that Walt Disney and Michael Eisner conditioned me to expect. What made me a fan in the first place.

All I can say is I have much more of a disposable income these days, so I guess that is a bonus.

[ed-uk]

Well I'm glad you 've got more of a disposable income these days, that's something for us cheer about. I notice your comments about Michael Eisner, phew. Most people blame him for the mistakes made at WDS, DCA and the tiny HKDL. But I'm glad he gave you a rich tapestry of entertainment and shopping offerings. Even Roy Disney went off him in the end. You've been conditioned, I have a mind of my own thank you very much.

[davewasbaloo]

](*,)