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[WalkerboyUK]

Just to clarify - there were no notices up about the name change.
My wife was talking to staff while collecting our bags and they asked if we'd been before.
They also asked my son if he'd seen the big new Cars picture over the entrance.
Also pointed out that the rooms are now themed and that there will be a lot more changes over the coming months, and that the hotel will be renamed in September.

[DutchBrit]

Disneyland was always designed to be a place for all ages, and Walt even talked about the importance of not talking down to kids.

Uh-huh. But he still wanted to attract them and he wanted to sell them stuff. The popularity of the Cars merchandise shows it sells. Therefore if you are running a company, and particularly if you are running a company that has a lot of debt, you use what you can. Familes with young kids are a big target for the lower-end hotels - they have to be.

In marketing terms, you want the fresh blood. The people who have never visited, the people who think it's too expensive, the parents who aren't really into theme parks but who want to treat their children. In marketing terms, repeat adult visitors are a bonus, but actually they've already made their money from you! You've already done your allocation. There is a correct term, which has slipped my mind, but figuratively you are like the old car that is still going, but which can't depreciate any more. So they keep you on the road until you fall apart, but they don't have to spend money on you anymore....

Even if you vow to never visit Disney again, they won't make a loss from you.

[davewasbaloo]

But the reason I went have been to Disneyland 100's of times, WDW for 5 weeks of my life, and will shortly going to DLP for the 56th time is not because of toons. A lot of adults don't want to go to DLP because they think it will all be toons and thrills. I have met countless families that "went for the kids", but because there was more on offer, they fell in love and have been back many times because of it. If it was all toons and thrills, I could guarantee that would change.

Disney have to think in the long term, they always used to. Hell, you can get toons at Blackpool, Drayton Manor, and even Port Aventura. Aiming at toons is really narrowing their market reach and customer retention.

If you want to talk business and marketing, I am gain. I used to run a department for a multinational earlier in my career. First rule, it is cheaper to keep clients than win new ones, and every successful business does both, putting 80% of their efforts in retention.

We honeymooned in WDW, and when we went, it was the honeymoon capital of the world. The way Disney runs their business today, there is no way in hell I would ever contemplate a honeymoon with the mouse except a Disney Cruise.

[ed-uk]

I don't have a problem with the Cars touches, after all the hotel Santa Fe is ment to be on route 66 so I can see how Cars could fit into that. All the Disney hotels look beautiful except the Santa Fe, so maybe introducing some new touches into it would be a good idea, some fans think the Santa Fe looks rather souless from the exterior. Of all the hotels at DLP it is the least successful in this regard. In the 1960's Disney didn't own any hotels, he couldn't afford one. And he never built a theme park in a foreign country, so maybe keeping Brittany happy counts for something in 2011.

[DutchBrit]

But the reason I went have been to Disneyland 100's of times, WDW for 5 weeks of my life, and will shortly going to DLP for the 56th time is not because of toons .

So they have you. Have made their money from you. Now they want to attract the other audience who aren't you.

A lot of adults don't want to go to DLP because they think it will all be toons and thrills. I have met countless families that "went for the kids", but because there was more on offer, they fell in love and have been back many times because of it .

If adults don't like cartoons at all, then I would suggest Disneyland is simply not the place for them anyway. And in your quote, you have the exact marketting strategy - get the people who come for the kids in and trust you can get them back a few times as well. That is "thinking long term".

We honeymooned in WDW, and when we went, it was the honeymoon capital of the world. The way Disney runs their business today, there is no way in hell I would ever contemplate a honeymoon with the mouse except a Disney Cruise.

Focus, isn't it? I think Florida can offer more as an adult destination. I don't think that is necessarily true of Disneyland Paris.

[ed-uk]

I do think Disneyland Paris should be a destination for adult also, and I say that as someone who goes without chidren. i don't have trouble with the characters I like to see them, but I don't rush to them. The Santa Fe is a budget family hotel, and I think the Cars theme done well could be a draw for Disney. But i wouldn't like to see the rooms done out like a childs bedroom.

[davewasbaloo]

Focus, isn't it? I think Florida can offer more as an adult destination. I don't think that is necessarily true of Disneyland Paris.

It used to be. When I was courting my wife, there was not the proliferation of toons everywhere, the Village had 4 live music venues and a night club, all the dining options were good quality with no McD's or Cafe Mickey to be found.

It was even better in 1992 when it first opened. The Hotel NY had a Jazz Club, there was live music at all the hotels. And altogether, DLP was a much more enjoyable experience, with live music on Main Street, discoveryland, Frontierland, Adventureland and jugglers and fire breathers in Fantasyland. There were craftsman doing wood carving, indian jewelry, Middle Eastern weaving. And then there were cancan dancers performing in the Lucky Nugget. Discoveryland had a fantastic dance show in the day, and was a disco at night.

DLP was stunning, and was very close to the model in California, where people of all ages enjoy the parks. I remember growing up in California, we would often watch live bands or go dancing to the big band on the hub as a kid (like Tivoli Gardens).

It was never about the toons. they were just a part of the experience, and to be frank, quite a small one. It was a lot easier to defend the place against the nay sayers, and most fell in love when they got there.

Now, it is shilling toons and carnival rides, not bothering with low level maintenance (it is rediculous that they have to replace the pirate ship), and some people, those that will probably have a 7 year shelf life, are lapping it up, but it will hurt the place long term. Kids will outgrow it, elderly will probably not bother unless they have the grand kids with them. This is a very different model than what made Disney parks a success in the first place.

If DL had opened as a toon park in 1955, I doubt WDW would have ever been built, let alone Tokyo, DLP and HKDL. And look, HKDL is very toon focused, and as a result it has really struggled. But there is a lot of anticipation on HK boards for the real Disney style attractions for when Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point open. There has to be a reason for that.

[ed-uk]

HKDL wasn't that Toon focused when it opened though was it? The park struggled because it didn't have many rides. It's very small.

[davewasbaloo]

It was very toon focused - my friends in WDI and TDO admitted to me they opened light, partially because of the politics with the Chinese, but also because they thought people would flock to the characters.

Opening Day:

Main Street - no real attractions other than the parades, the train and some vehicles
Adventureland - Lion King Show, Tarzan Tree House,  Jungle Cruise - all the shops and restaurants were themed to Tarzan or Jungle Book.
Fantasyland - the usual spinners, Winnie the Pooh, and toon themed restaurants and shops (though in FL this is understandable)
Tomorrowland - Space Mountain, Stitch Live and Buzz.

Since they have added Mickey's House, Animation Academy, Turtle Talk, Autopia, Rocket Splash Park, It's a Small World including the toons.

Well, sounds like a very kiddy/toony park to me. But at Halloween, they have scare mazes and more mature offerings including an awesome Halloween Parade - this is their busiest time of year.

And TSPL is getting much maligned by HK fans, whereas they are excited about the more traditional (e.g. original and themed) areas currently in development.

Although a different market, I think this speaks volumes. The most popular attractions at DL, WDW, DLP and HKDL have nothing to do with toons. And although Honey Hunt and Monsters Inc Hide and Go Seek in TDL do, they are very immersive and both world innovative attractions.

Surely this is a huge amount of evidence about what works in Disney park design.

[davewasbaloo]

There were Disney folk claiming the meet and greet gardens at HKDL would be the biggest attraction. Thankfully they were wrong.

[DutchBrit]

It was even better in 1992 when it first opened. The Hotel NY had a Jazz Club, there was live music at all the hotels. And altogether, DLP was a much more enjoyable experience, with live music on Main Street, discoveryland, Frontierland, Adventureland and jugglers and fire breathers in Fantasyland. There were craftsman doing wood carving, indian jewelry, Middle Eastern weaving. And then there were cancan dancers performing in the Lucky Nugget. Discoveryland had a fantastic dance show in the day, and was a disco at night.

Then the park should have been an instant success story if that is what the core european market wanted and the debt should have been a thing that had been sorted out years ago. But it wasn't.

There is no getting away from the fact that Disney is a company based on animated films. That's it's hook. They could try to attract the people who don't like animations, but why would they? That's a far harder market to crack and is always going to be a small target. You don't have to attract the people who love all things Disney - they will come anyway. So the one's you concentrate your efforts on are the ones that can take Disney or leave it alone. The adults who would not come apart from the fact that they have children and their will-power and resistance have been thus sledge-hammered.

I'd also say that most of the people who go hundreds of times are quite unlikely to object to a bit of character theming about the place. In fact, you'd pretty much expect it to be all over their homes and clothes and possessions anyway, so a picture or two on the hotel walls and themed bedding is hardly going to be considered intrusive.

[aliscrapper]

I'd love there to be a Walt Disney Experience like there was at WDW when I went in 2006 with all the "Walt memoribillia" and story of his life for the adults that are interested in the history of Walt Disney - would probably appeal to the older kids too!

[dagobert]

Then the park should have been an instant success story if that is what the core european market wanted and the debt should have been a thing that had been sorted out years ago. But it wasn't.

Even if Disney would have added toons over toons in 1992, DLRP still wouldn't have been a success.
Since you know a lot about marketing and business, I'm sure you know that when DLRP opened, a recession hit Europe. The next problem was that Disney used the WDW numbers to calculate the visitors and so they opened too many hotel rooms. DLRP with one park opened with 7 hotels, while WDW with 3 parks had 10 or so at that time. You should read James B. Stewarts "Disney War". It describes very well why DLRP became a failure. According to the book Disney although thought that the former Soviet countries would also bring some people to the resort.

And according to Tim Delaney, the Imagineer who created Discoveryland and SM, the lenders asked for more rides like SM, because that attraction was a change in DLRP's history. After SM opened DLRP made for the first time money. A fantastic ride, not designed around a Disney animated movie, was the reason that DLRP had record attendance in 1995. After TOT opened DLRP had another record year, and I'm sure TOT had at least an impact on that. So two great attractions not based on toons were the biggest hits for DLRP since 1992. So I'm sure that Europe just doesn't want to see toons everywhere. Europeans want to see high quality rides.

[davewasbaloo]

Then the park should have been an instant success story if that is what the core european market wanted and the debt should have been a thing that had been sorted out years ago. But it wasn't.

It was a huge success, in terms of attendance they met their forecasts. It was the sales and hotel utilisation that was low. The loans were incredible, and we were going through a recession at the time. With it having just opened, they were not offering 40% off deals like they are in this recession.

Eisner's anaylsis post opening showed that they opened with too many hotels initially, and this then tempered the model when HKDL opened with two. As a stand alone park, DLP was a success.

[Adam]

I do hope that they aren't renaming the hotel. However, if they are going down that route, could they not rename it "Disney Pixar's Cars Presents Hotel Santa Fe," or similar?