DLP Guide Forum - The Disneyland Paris magicforum community

A Belgian theme park fansite posted on their Twitter yesterday (without sources) about a new Disney-Pixar's Cars theme for Disney's Hotel Santa Fe.  

Even if you find that hard to believe, like I did, check out these photos found on Disney Central Plaza, posted by Normand50.

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Thoughts?

If they are only changing the pictures on the wall in the rooms, personally I've wouldn't call it re-theming. I think that changing pictures is something every hotel do now and then. For me, re-theming is to change wallpapers, layout of the rooms, upgrading facility's etc.

Hmmmm...... :-k
I don't know, i like the Hotel themes as they are, it don't have to be all about the characters imho.
So for me the Cars intro to SF isn't a thing we need or they should do.....

On the otherside, the Cars theme does fit the Mexican/dessert/route66 style of SF, so it's possible.....

I can see the sparseness of santa fe easily translating into radiator springs. Maybe it doesn't need to be themed to a specific movie, but it does need more TLC than the other hotels, no question.

Not the worst idea ever, but potentially quite bad for the coherence of DLP's wonderful set of hotels. They currently all have such distinct, well-defined themes; so organic and free of corporate branding. Disney but not too Disney -- enough of a break from a day in the parks, but completely escapist at the same time. Having said that, Santa Fe is without doubt the weakest (and often bleakest) of the lot, lacking in warmth with all those endless car park spaces and discoloured concrete blocks. Maybe giving it a little refresh, a little taste of Cars Land would be a smart move.

If we're talking rethemeing, I'd prefer if it was just one of the five "trails", keeping most of the hotel's original, pure theme intact. Or even better: build a new set of buildings, a kind of Admiral's Floor sub-hotel, a real Cozy Cone motel within the property. There's plenty of space and I'm sure the demand is there for more rooms, rather than just lightly rethemed, probably higher-priced existing rooms, ultimately pushing people down the ladder into non-Disney hotels.

But then maybe we're just talking about DLP changing a few picture frames to say "hey kids, it's a bit - but not really - like where Cars is set!". Maybe Cars is just replacing the almost unknown tie-in characters from "The Three Caballeros" and "Saludos Amigos" they used to use in brochure pages.

They could just be improving the hotel in simpler ways like adding a new playground with a cars theme or making a cars themed restaurant or cafe inspired by Flo's. Whatever they do, I think it will really improve the hotel.

Quote from: "Anthony"But then maybe we're just talking about DLP changing a few picture frames to say "hey kids, it's a bit - but not really - like where Cars is set!". Maybe Cars is just replacing the almost unknown tie-in characters from "The Three Caballeros" and "Saludos Amigos" they used to use in brochure pages.

That I wouldn't mind at all, but an entire retheme of the hotel I would mind.  

Like said Santa Fe is the weakest hotel out of the 7 especially in the theming but it just has something I love from it.  Turning the area into Radiator Springs would be a horrible idea in my eyes for two reasons mainly. 1, because it would be yet another Pixar addition to the park (I may be a supporter of TSPL and looking forward to Ratatouille but I think the line should be drawn after them, no more Pixar elements for a while) and more importantly 2, because it would kill off the special theming that all the hotels share of different areas throughout America.  If they're going to give Santa Fe a Cars theme then they might as well turn Cheyenne into Woody's Roundup Hotel, and Disneyland Hotel into a princess dream mansion.  Although the more I think about it the more I think it is just going to be a matter of changing the pictures.

One last thing entered my mind, if Santa Fe get's an all round Cars retheme, would it mean that Cars billboard we saw on Studio 1 will replace the Clint Eastwood one?  Now that's a scary thought :shock:

Quote from: "-breeno-"One last thing entered my mind, if Santa Fe get's an all round Cars retheme, would it mean that Cars billboard we saw on Studio 1 will replace the Clint Eastwood one?  Now that's a scary thought :shock:

I had the exact same thought. :lol:

For me, as long as it's only the pictures that are changing I don't mind. If they did retheme the whole hotel to Cars it would bother me, but I doubt that'll happen. I don't see how it would benefit the resort in any way.

"Cars" and hotels simply don't mix... Contrary to what Disney seems to think these days, Pixar-fare isn't nearly as versatile as their older movies, certainly not with the unsubtle ways in which they implement it. I think it's a very bad idea. Even if it's just those picture frames.

Yes, Santa Fe is the weak link in the chain of Disney hotels, but how stupidly simple of an answer is it to just throw some Pixar on it? For pete's sake, the place already has a theme, it just runs a little thin here and there. If they can't work with a theme as easy as (New) Mexico, all hope is lost.

Quote from: "-breeno-"... it would kill off the special theming that all the hotels share of different areas throughout America.  If they're going to give Santa Fe a Cars theme then they might as well turn Cheyenne into Woody's Roundup Hotel, and Disneyland Hotel into a princess dream mansion.  Although the more I think about it the more I think it is just going to be a matter of changing the pictures.

One last thing entered my mind, if Santa Fe get's an all round Cars retheme, would it mean that Cars billboard we saw on Studio 1 will replace the Clint Eastwood one?  Now that's a scary thought :shock:

that was my thoughts. If they're going to do one are they going to do all the others? If they're not then Santa Fe would be a t a juxtaposition to the others. Oh and the billboard! Not the billboard! :shock:  :lol:

Quote from: "Anthony"If we're talking rethemeing, I'd prefer if it was just one of the five "trails", keeping most of the hotel's original, pure theme intact. Or even better: build a new set of buildings, a kind of Admiral's Floor sub-hotel, a real Cozy Cone motel within the property. There's plenty of space and I'm sure the demand is there for more rooms, rather than just lightly rethemed, probably higher-priced existing rooms, ultimately pushing people down the ladder into non-Disney hotels.

That I can see, but what extras would the Cozy Cones get?

Well, the Santa Fe does have the Route 66 map running along the outside wall and though Radiator Springs isn't specified as being in a particular US state, it does fit very well with New Mexico (where the actual town of Santa Fe is) and Route 66 did travel through  Santa Fe at one point (hence the map on the outside), so its a pretty good idea to put a few  "Cars" items around.

I don't mind the new pictures, because I don't know which pictures have been on the wall before. BUT I would mind if Disney is going to retheme the whole hotel. We have always enjoyed the Santa Fe hotel and I really hope the hotel stays with the New Mexican theme.

Why does Disney always use characters to retheme or desingn something new. I really miss the 90ies when WDI created new things that aren't Disney related in the first place.

I really hope that if Disney is going to build a new hotel, that it will have an American theme like the current ones. In my opinion the Hollywood Hotel at HKDL would fit perfectly.

I'm reminded of one of David Mitchell's rants about modern TV being afraid of references in children's television... It may come as a surprise, but children still respond to things they haven't already heard of. You don't need to dangle pictures of Buzz Lightyear and Hannah Montana in front of their faces, they are perfectly able to see new things and generate excitement for that.

Besides, the hotels should also present a bit of peace away from all that high-powered Disney of the parks. It's not a bad thing that there aren't Disney characters plastered all over your bedsheets, the wallpaper, the carpet... Disney hotels present a lightly themed environment broad enough for you to unleash your own imagination onto, and that's a wonderful thing. I'm really not looking forward to waking up in the Radiator Springs Hotel.

That´s a very bad idea. The disney hotels have already a theme. Every hotel its own and every hotel could stand out without any movie relations. What´s next? Brother bear hotel = SL, Woody´sRounduphotel = Cheyenne? Tinkerbells Fairy Friends = Disneyland Hotel, Finding Nemos Sea Bed Hotel = NPBC??? Come on! The spirit of disney hotels isn´t a movie theme. It´s pure imagineering. Another world. But not a simple movie.

In some ways I think this would be a good idea because it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to see how Cars/radiator springs and the look of the santa fe kind of match with their desert type atmosphere.

I wouldn't like an overpowering cars theme but a few sutble changes may be fine. But it would seem weird to have one hotel with a character/movie theme and the others without it and vice versa.

The santa fe could definately use a few small improvements though, e.g. having lifts in the buildings with 2 or more floors so that you dont have to hawk heavy luggage up flights of stairs :roll:

QuoteNot the worst idea ever, but potentially quite bad for the coherence of DLP's wonderful set of hotels. They currently all have such distinct, well-defined themes; so organic and free of corporate branding. Disney but not too Disney -- enough of a break from a day in the parks, but completely escapist at the same time.

I totally agree with that. The hotels are fab as they are. I think the colourful themed hotels at WDW look a bit tacky in my opinion.

BUT, in saying that, if they were to theme it to Cars, they wouldn't need to do too much really. The setting is already there, just need some cars dotted around now.lol

So in all, I like the idea, but just as long as this kind of move is for the Santa Fe ONLY.

I just returned from a holiday staying in the Santa Fe - I didn't see any beginning Cars themening or props - I hope it's just a new set of pictures on the wall. That would be fine - the hotel is in general need of a repainting and one could think that they would use this opportunity to take this idea a bit further.

For instance I saw a "house" completely new-painted (bright red) with one side being almost white. Not painted but it looked like the painting had been scratched off or something - maybe for a special painting of that wall?

The playground was also in refurbishment and closed off - maybe for some rethemening?

I wouldn't mind minor changes, but they must keep the original idea and theme and please stay away from the billboard!

see this picture:

(//http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs610.snc4/59034_1448112437878_1085190627_31063365_4108410_n.jpg)

Kenny

i think it would be good, my boy would love it anyway!

Poor Clint Eastwood!!! Another billboard a la Disney!

Is DLP-I responsible for this? Do they know that all hotels are themed to American regions? If they want to bring Cars characters into the hotel, they should do it the same way like they are doing it at Sequoia Lodge. I don't mind to have cars paintings or wallpaper in the rooms, but they should keep the overall theme of the hotel.

:evil:  :evil:     noooooooo ......dont get me wrong, i do like cars and i know my son will love this , but this is to much..havnt we already had enough of this picture over in the studios... :evil:

oh jeezzz is that for real? :shock:
Is it the exact same one that was on Studio 1?
Its sad that we're loosing are cohesive hotles set in all regions of America theme  :evil:

It is for real... I just did a quick snoop on DCP and found these...

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Not subtle at all...  :roll: Let's hope we don't see cars charecters replacing the theming elements around the Hotel... or even a rename to the "Cozy Cone"  :|

Source: http://disneycentralplaza.englishboard. ... htm#755704 (http://disneycentralplaza.englishboard.net/disneyland-paris-f6/l-hotel-santa-fe-serait-prochainement-thematise-sur-cars-t17233-60.htm#755704%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

Thanks for the pictures.

Oh no. How can they do this to Clint Eastwood. After the last years and recent additions to the resort, I wouldn't be surprised if they would rename the hotel.

Is it really so important for Disney to have everything connected with characters?

I don't think it's terrible, after all, the Clint Eastwood was supposed to look like a Drive In Movie, and it's been replaced by a movie that fits the overall atmosphere. If they're going to do it, it'd be nice to see them clean up the actual buildings with the rooms. It's the hotel I've always felt looks a bit abandoned, so re-paint/theme the buildings to look like buildings you'd see around Radiator Springs, add in some nice new rock structures and have a general tidy up and I think the Cars theme could work. It'd still be a place in America (fitting the original hotels brief) but it'd be one made by Disney.

Of course the other option would be to accept that it's going Toon and make it an All-Star Resort like Pop Century at WDW..

I can't believe they have actually done this... :o

From now on there'll be a load of guests who see it as "the Cars Hotel" rather than the Sante Fe.

and there goes my first ever memory of Euro Disney  :evil:

how could they get rid of Clint, bad enough he isn't on the google earth 3d model... BUT COME ON!!!
 :roll:

Quote from: "MattyD24"and there goes my first ever memory of Euro Disney  :evil:

how could they get rid of Clint, bad enough he isn't on the google earth 3d model... BUT COME ON!!!
 :roll:

The Santa Fe was our first Disney hotel and we have some great memories about the hotel. I always loved to see Clint Eastwood when entering the hotel parking lot.

Another bad decision by DLP-I. I really would shut down that branch of WDI and everything should be done in Glendale.

As RnRCJ already said, most people will now call it Cars hotel instead of Santa Fe. Another part of DLRP's history is gone. I think we have to live with the fact that Disney of today is just about connecting everything with characters. Nearly all new attractions are based on characters and I fear the same will hapen with the hotels.

Quote from: "dagobert"Another bad decision by DLP-I. I really would shut down that branch of WDI and everything should be done in Glendale.

Um... do you know that for a fact or are you just bashing them for the sport of it?

In my own experience, DLPI (despite producing a few misses over the years) knows and protects the park's legacy way more effectively than most people realize, and their projects have definitely shown more respect for the park's original Imagineers (a few of which are working at DLPI, just by the way) than those of the Glendale branch.

However, they're not immune to internal company politics, and unfortunately many decisions taken by upper management today are market research-driven. If guests want characters everywhere (and I guess that unfortunately they do), then DLPI can't do much to prevent that.

"Nearly all new attractions are based on characters and I fear the same will hapen with the hotels."

Yep, all Pixar ones too:

- Toy Story Playland (Toy Story) 2010
- Crush's Coaster (Finding Nemo) 2007
- Cars Race Rally (Cars) 2007
- Buzz Lightyear Laser Blast (Toy Story) 2006

So lets think of Pixar movies to match up with the Disneyland Paris Resort Hotels:

- Disneyland Hotel (Up)
- Hotel New York (Monsters, Inc.)
- Newport Bay Club (Finding Nemo)
- Sequoia Lodge (A Bug's Life)
- Hotel Cheyenne (Woody, Toy Story)
- Hotel Santa Fe (Cars)

Perfect :-)

Oh wow, that is awful. I'm going to have to let this sink in for a bit.

Quote from: "RiverRogue"

Quote from: "dagobert"Another bad decision by DLP-I. I really would shut down that branch of WDI and everything should be done in Glendale.

Um... do you know that for a fact or are you just bashing them for the sport of it?

In my own experience, DLPI (despite producing a few misses over the years) knows and protects the park's legacy way more effectively than most people realize, and their projects have definitely shown more respect for the park's original Imagineers (a few of which are working at DLPI, just by the way) than those of the Glendale branch.

However, they're not immune to internal company politics, and unfortunately many decisions taken by upper management today are market research-driven. If guests want characters everywhere (and I guess that unfortunately they do), then DLPI can't do much to prevent that.

You got me! I know that my post is a little bit unfair, because they really did great jobs in recent years, too, especially the little Coca Cola food kiosks in Adventureland or Discoveryland.

I'm just guessing, because Kristof posted in the Sequoia Lodge Refurbishment Thread that DLP-I is responsible for the new design of the rooms. That's why I thought that DLP-I is also responsible for this.

I'm aware of the fact that DLP-I has to do what the management tells them.

But when you look at other Disney resorts, especially the hotels and attractions, and what is done there, you have to admit that there is something going wrong in Paris. But that's just my opinion.

Quote from: "dagobert"I'm just guessing, because Kristof posted in the Sequoia Lodge Refurbishment Thread that DLP-I is responsible for the new design of the rooms. That's why I thought that DLP-I is also responsible for this.

Well, they probably did end up working on it, but as for the decision I wouldn't bet that it was theirs.....

Quote from: "dagobert"But when you look at other Disney resorts, especially the hotels and attractions, and what is done there, you have to admit that there is something going wrong in Paris. But that's just my opinion.

You're obviously not alone in your opinion and I know that it's shared by more than a few people working at DLP too... I could tell you about the many atrocities narrowly avoided thanks to the dedication of some of those people... They can't always get their way, though.

On the whole, I guess things would probably be somewhat different if the financial situation of the resort was better. They might take a few more risks and more often follow creative ideas rather than marketing concepts.

Wow :shock: is this real? I never really liked the Clint Eastwood picture, but this is, ahm yes.... I'm in loss for words.
My daughter would have loved it 2 weeks ago. She is a big McQueen fan, but I think, this is a little bit too much. Even for me.
So it was good I took a picture from the billbord two weeks ago. Last one forever. Wow.

I still don't know if I like it or not.

I'm still trying to digest this.... Is it real or photoshopped?  Granted the hotel is the weak link and for my taste too stylised a version and recreation of Santa Fe. I had always hoped that one day they would give it a refurb and dress the outsides of the buildings along the lines of Fuente De Oro restaurant in frontier land. That to me evokes the hot south west and real theme, it also holds it's own in the dark grey raining days, much more than the current style.

Adding a cars overlay does not fit in with the rest of the hotels. Mind you, with the cheaply announced art of animation hotel in wdw cashing in on Nemo, Cars, Lion King and Little Mermaid, I'm not entirely surprised by this move....

Quote from: "-breeno-"One last thing entered my mind, if Santa Fe get's an all round Cars retheme, would it mean that Cars billboard we saw on Studio 1 will replace the Clint Eastwood one?  Now that's a scary thought :shock:

Breeno forsaw the future  :lol:  :P

I don't like it. At all  :x

Sure, the Santa Fe is my least favourite hotel, but it had a theme, it had a feel to it, and it fitted with the overall theme of the Disney hotels. As much as I love the characters, I don't want to see them take over that. It was bad enough to add Mickey and friends to the Buffallo Bill show, and now this???  ](*,)  ](*,)

And I fear this is just the beginning... Cars for the Santa Fe, Bambi for the Sequoia... Wonder when Toy Story will invade the Cheyenne!

hate it. :twisted:

Quote from: "never2old"I don't like it. At all  :x

Sure, the Santa Fe is my least favourite hotel, but it had a theme, it had a feel to it, and it fitted with the overall theme of the Disney hotels. As much as I love the characters, I don't want to see them take over that. It was bad enough to add Mickey and friends to the Buffallo Bill show, and now this???  ](*,)  ](*,)

And I fear this is just the beginning... Cars for the Santa Fe, Bambi for the Sequoia... Wonder when Toy Story will invade the Cheyenne!

I also can imagine that this is just the beginning. Maybe Disney thinks that they will generate more money with characters. For example the new budget hotel currently built in WDW is also based on Disney and Pixar movies. I wonder what the architect of the hotel will say about the transition. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think that people will more likely stay in the Santa Fe, because it gets a Cars theme. I think it is important to improve the quality and then people will come and spend money.

I don't want to be so negative all the time, but at the moment Disneyland Paris annoys me a lot with their projects. I fear that DLP is heading in the wrong direction, becuase it orientates too much on WDW.

In plain internet talk...this sucks! Why oh why they think that by sticking in our throats toons all over the place will make things better. I'm really disappointed by this move and I didn't expect it to happen!

well by far Cars is not my favourite film, however i dont think changing the Santa Fe board is a bad thing, even to this, it fits in with the theme after all! Clint was starting to look a little dated bless him! If people didnt want too much Disney on thier holiday they stay elsewhere! if ur in a Disney hotel surely the expectation is that Disney stuff will be all around? i certainly expected that my first time! i was kinda dissapointed when there wasnt! Of all the things they could have done i dont think this is a huge deal! Im just always happy to be there, infact i'll see it in two months! maybe my opinion will change when i see it....who knows! :thumbs:

Quote from: "MissDisney"If people didnt want too much Disney on thier holiday they stay elsewhere! if ur in a Disney hotel surely the expectation is that Disney stuff will be all around? i certainly expected that my first time! i was kinda dissapointed when there wasnt!

Shudder. No, I always expect DIsney to give me highly themed immersive environments. I do not want to see characters everywhere I turn. The first 40 years of Disney parks the characters were mainly relegated to Fantasyland, and that is how I like it.

I am heartened to see I am not alone in hating the pushing of character tie ins. But look at it since Iger came on board:

DCA
- World of Color (all tied to the films)
- Funwheel put in a huge Mickeymouse head that was not needed
- Toy Story Midway Mania
- Orange Stinger changed to a Silly Symphony theme
- Mulhalland Madness themed to Goofy's Sky School
- California Dreams ripped out for Ariel
- Monsters Inc replacing SUperstar Limo
- Fliks Fun Faire
- Carsland
- Turtle Talk

Only new things without tie ins were ToT (planned during Eisner's reign) and the new entrance

DL
- Toon themed shows
- Sleeping Beauty Walk Through re do
- Gt Moments with Mr Lincoln (not toon themed)  :D
- Finding Nemo Submarine voyage
- Characters in It's a Small World  :evil:
- Johnny Depp in PotC
- Star Tours 2
- Pirates overlay of Tom Sawyer Island  :evil:

Disneyland Hotel - ripping out the falls and Lost Bar and putting in Monorail waterslides - self referrencial

WDW
MK
- All the new Fantasyland redo it toon based
- Stitch Encounter
- Monsters Inc Laugh Floor
- Johnny Depp in PotC

Epcot
- Donald and the 3 Cabrilleros put in the Mexico pavillion
- Turtle Talk
- Finding Nemo invades the Living Seas
- Capt Eo
- O Canada redo

DHS
- Toystory Midway Mania
- Block Party
- American Idol
- Star Tours v2

DAK
- Expedition Everest (planned in Eisner's reign)
- Yak and Yeti

Hotels
- Nemo and PotC overlay of the Caribbean Beach resort
- Toons introduced to the Luau (early show only thank goodness)
- Proposed Haunted Mansion overlay to Port Orleans Riverside
- Closing Pleasure Island
- More DVC - Bay LAke Tower, Kidani Village, Saratoga Springs Tree Houses
- New horrid Animation theme to what was the Legendary Years of Pop Century (I hate Pop and the All Stars Anyway - tacky rubbish Disney would not have built in Walt's day).

DLP
- Closing of the shows
- The celebrations on the hub (all toon based) with a toon train
- Buzz
- Capt Eo  :thumbs:

WDSP
- Stitch Live
- Crush Coaster
- Cars
- Toy Story Playland
- ToT (approved during Eisner's reign)

Resort
- Mickey and Friends in Buffalo Bills
- best themed shop gives way to Starbucks
- Most of the good table service converted to buffets (same consultant who started ruining WDW dining and the cruise industry)
- Earl of Sandwich
- World of Disney Store

Tokyo DL
- Monsters Inc Hide and Seek
- Philharmagic
- Johnny Depp in PotC

TDS
- Turtle Talk
- Toystory Midway Mania
- Sinbad turned into a musical with a cutesy tiger
- Fantasmic
- Duffy Bear

HKDL
- Toons in IASW
- Grizzly Gultch  :thumbs:
- Mystic Point with Mystic Manor and the Explorer's Club  :thumbs:  :thumbs:  :D/  =D>  :mrgreen:
- Toy Story Playland  :evil:  :P  :?  :cry:

Other projects:
Aulani in Ko Olina Hawaii - looks cool
Shanghai - no real details yet (look after Oct 4, 2010)
Rumours of Marvel Park in Paris

I think we can see a trend, and it is a worrisome one. Hence perhaps my passionate slating of TSPL. Look at it in the whole. When DL opened in 1955, there were very few characters at all, and as a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's, they were a very small part of the Disney experience. Now people focus on them and I think it is killing the parks.

Which is more unique - a barbershop quartet or a spotty teenager dressed up as Mickey Mouse?

Quote from: "dagobert"Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think that people will more likely stay in the Santa Fe, because it gets a Cars theme. I think it is important to improve the quality and then people will come and spend money.

Exactly!! Spend more money in improving the quality of the hotel and services, instead of changing (ruining) the theme!!

The original theme was beautiful...  :(

(//http://images52.fotki.com/v727/photos/8/1582018/8084712/PA120254-vi.jpg)

I could have done with discreet changes to the rooms, like in the wallpaper...  The bedsheets, a bit too much. But replacing Clint Eastwood... That's unforgivable.

Plus the other thing that was cool about having Clint was it was a nod to Europe too, as most of the films he was famous for as a cowboy were filmed in Spain.

Thanks for summing up all the new attractions, hotels and other things connected with toons, Dave. It's so sad that Disney is doing that. The best attractions Disney ever created aren't connected with movies and toons. For example ToT, Expedition Everest, PoTC, PM or Soarin.

Buffalo Traders was the shop replaced by Starbucks, am I right? It was very well themed, nevertheless I'm happy that there is a Starbucks in the resort. Now you can get a real cup of coffee. But they could have used another shop for Starbucks.

We have start a petition to bring back Clint Eastwood!!! Thanks for the beautiful picture of Santa Fe. It was our first Disney hotel and so it has a special place.

Quote from: "MissDisney"If people didnt want too much Disney on thier holiday they stay elsewhere! if ur in a Disney hotel surely the expectation is that Disney stuff will be all around? i certainly expected that my first time! i was kinda dissapointed when there wasnt! Of all the things they could have done i dont think this is a huge deal! Im just always happy to be there, infact i'll see it in two months! maybe my opinion will change when i see it....who knows! :thumbs:

But Disney stuff doesn't mean that there have to be toons everywhere. Most Disney hotels don't feature anything related to a movie or to characters, but you realize that you are in a Disney hotel and not in any other. It's the theming and story telling that makes Disney hotels special.

If people want to see characters and toons everywhere, than Disney has to get rid of all the attractions without movie connections ar they have to add them, like they did in it's a small world in Anaheim. But that would be a nightmare.

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Plus the other thing that was cool about having Clint was it was a nod to Europe too, as most of the films he was famous for as a cowboy were filmed in Spain.

the good old "Spaghetti Westerns", "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" being one of them

also Dave, i think you may have forgotten "The Enchanted Tiki Room: Under New Management" in that list of yours... also i think The Barber Shop Quartet is more unigue  :thumbs:

Quote from: "dagobert"The Santa Fe was our first Disney hotel and we have some great memories about the hotel. I always loved to see Clint Eastwood when entering the hotel parking lot.

something we both have in common  :)

Quote from: "MattyD24"

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Plus the other thing that was cool about having Clint was it was a nod to Europe too, as most of the films he was famous for as a cowboy were filmed in Spain.

the good old "Spaghetti Westerns", "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" being one of them

also Dave, i think you may have forgotten "The Enchanted Tiki Room: Under New Management" in that list of yours... also i think The Barber Shop Quartet is more unigue  :thumbs:

Quote from: "dagobert"The Santa Fe was our first Disney hotel and we have some great memories about the hotel. I always loved to see Clint Eastwood when entering the hotel parking lot.

something we both have in common  :)

Oops, I thought Under New Management was older than that, I thought I recall seeing that in 2000.

Also in the club, I checked into the Santa Fe on April 11, 1992!

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"I think we can see a trend, and it is a worrisome one. Hence perhaps my passionate slating of TSPL. Look at it in the whole. When DL opened in 1955, there were very few characters at all, and as a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's, they were a very small part of the Disney experience. Now people focus on them and I think it is killing the parks.

Which is more unique - a barbershop quartet or a spotty teenager dressed up as Mickey Mouse?

Whilst I agree that having characters involved in every ride/hotel is not good, the majority of original DLP rides are based on them. Non character rides are great, such as TOT (which is still based on a TV show), but it is logical to relate rides and characters/movies together at DLP. Also, with regards to the reflection on the Pixar movies and characters, it is also logical to use them and not the older characters, as they are more well known these days and are key to marketing a new ride. Would a ride with Chip and Dale have the same appeal as a Pixar one?

However, I do think that they need to be subtle with the theming - that bedspread is a bit OTT!

Quote from: "Festival Disney"

Quote from: "-breeno-"One last thing entered my mind, if Santa Fe get's an all round Cars retheme, would it mean that Cars billboard we saw on Studio 1 will replace the Clint Eastwood one?  Now that's a scary thought :shock:

Breeno forsaw the future  :lol:  :P

I feel kinda responsible for this now, as if my sarcastic post gave them an idea.  Please, don't start a witch hunt!  8-[  :P

Seriously though, this is appalling.  I don't think I need to explain why because it's already been said here, this is a huge step in the wrong direction.  That Clint Eastwood poster [strike:7etiewo6]is one of[/strike:7etiewo6] is my favourite element in any Disney hotel, (yep, better than NPB's lighthouse, better than Sequoia Lodge's trees, hey even better than Fantasia Gardens!).  This very much reminds of the when they had that Walt Disney poster covered up by the Princesses in one of the WDS stores, only this is a bigger scale (literal-wise) and that poster had a very symbolic controversy in my opinion.

Hopeful though, like the Walt poster, this will eventfully be taken down and Clint will reign over Santa Fe once again.

on the subject of Clint, i know the image was abit to dated, so why not replace it with this one of Clint

(//http://www.goodiebag.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/goodthebadandtheugly.jpg)

I dont mind this infact someone in my household smiled when they saw it ( they are huge cars fan and the reason we are postponing our DCA trip to 2012 for the opening of cars land ), I personally didnt like the clint billboard and thought it looked rubbish. The hotel desperately needs an update, and i feel some of the resorts harshest critics are those that stay at the santa fe. For me the best news is that the hotel is getting some TLC, despite the controversial nature of the update.

Ah, I love this new theme for Santa Fe. It fits perfectly and the hotel realy needs a fresh new look. Cars is hugely popular and I'm betting the bookings for Santa Fe 'Cars-style' will be much higher then with Clint.

The new Bambi make-over for Sequoia Lodge is also exciting!

I still don't know if I like it nor not. I think I don't. Something in my heart says yes, the "refurb" is a good thing for the Santa Fe. But on the other hand it feels wrong for me.
Santa Fe was always my least favourite hotel, themeing wise, but somehow I started to like it during our two stays in june last year and september two weeks ago.
I never really liked the Eastwood billboard, (I don't like Eastwood western either) but now I start to miss ist. It gave the hotel a heart.
But maye they are right to change it. I know themeing is not only for the kids, but how many teens (and younger) know Clint Eastwood. My little daughter didn't even care about the billboard above her head. Think she didn't even recognised it. Wonder she didn't ask, "Who is that strange guy up there?" It wouldn't have made much sense if i told her he was a famous movie star 20 or 30 years ago.
She liked the cars pictures on the wall on our way to the restaurant and watched them several minutes every day.

I think we have to change our view of Disney. This is the Disney(land) for the next (3D/CGI/Pixar) generation.
The 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s are over. To all who are born in this years, we have to accept that we are the "old" generation.
Disney is moving on, maybe in the wrong direction. Maybe the have to learn their lesson.
I think we have to accept it, if we want it or not. The old Disney times are over. We can complain about it and hope Disney is willing to hear, but I think we can't change it. If we can't accept it, we have to leave Disney alone.

Quote from: "Reiana"But maye they are right to change it. I know themeing is not only for the kids, but how many teens (and younger) know Clint Eastwood. My little daughter didn't even care about the billboard above her head. Think she didn't even recognised it. Wonder she didn't ask, "Who is that strange guy up there?" It wouldn't have made much sense if i told her he was a famous movie star 20 or 30 years ago.
She liked the cars pictures on the wall on our way to the restaurant and watched them several minutes every day.

Well, it just so happens I learned who Clint Eastwood was because of that poster!

I'm so tired of this notion that kids only respond to things they already recognize. I was introduced to classical music and Frankenstein through the Looney Tunes, opera through Tom & Jerry and goodness knows what through Disney comic strips — to this day I can't think of Genghis Khan without thinking of Scrooge McDuck. These things didn't dumb anything down and made me want to inquire and dive into all sorts of new worlds. Nowadays, if commerce can possibly help it, kids stop being introduced to any form of novelty after the brief preteen period in which they get Buzz Lightyear, Shrek and Spongebob Squarepants rammed into their young craniums through bath towels and lunchboxes.

I'm not even against the inclusion of a few Disney characters; certainly there is a place for, say, the Three Caballeros at the Santa Fe and for Chip and Dale at Sequoia Lodge. But this sort of thing was once dealt with in a critical and subtle manner — framed Fantasia artwork at the Disneyland Hotel, say — and putting that same stupid image of Cars that we've all seen six million times before on a hotel is not that!

And no one is going to book a stay there because of that billboard. If they want to see that image, I'm sure they have it on a spittle-stained bib somewhere, or on a diaper bag, or on a wallpaper border, or on a roll of wrapping paper, or on a key chain, or...

God I wish Disney would raise their standards just a little bit.

Quote from: "-breeno-"This very much reminds of the when they had that Walt Disney poster covered up by the Princesses in one of the WDS stores, only this is a bigger scale (literal-wise) and that poster had a very symbolic controversy in my opinion.

Hopeful though, like the Walt poster, this will eventfully be taken down and Clint will reign over Santa Fe once again.

Sad to say but from this picture, i think its gone.

Quote from: "MagicKenny"see this picture:

(//http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs610.snc4/59034_1448112437878_1085190627_31063365_4108410_n.jpg)

Kenny

It looks like just wooden boards behind it now.

TBH I'm getting a little pi**ed off with all the Pixar involvement in the parks, are they just shoving more money in via a sponsorship deal like a premiership football team (and don't you dare call it soccer). I like the TS films but it's everywhere you bloody look.

Oh by the way, do you know what most kids today also haven't heard of? Fantasia. Very few daycare centers play that DVD. The pacing is too slow and there isn't enough dialog. I suppose that's bad news for the Disneyland Hotel, then.

I never thought I would say it but I am really sad to see Clint go!  :(  My mum and I used to have a laugh because I used to forget who it was and call him John Wayne by mistake almost every time we stayed there. I am a bit fed up of that cars picture from when it was used in the studios on building 1. As someone else said in their post, I just hope people don't start calling it the cars hotel! :roll:

I have to say I like the vibrant colour of the new duvets.

x

Not sure what to think about. I think I don`t like the car theme in the hotel. I also don`t like a hotel to be a character/movie-theme. I like characters, but in the parks.
And that billboard up there looks like it has not been finished, might as well have left Clint up there.
Santa Fe was also our first Disney Hotel.
Aurora

Quote from: "Adam"

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"I think we can see a trend, and it is a worrisome one. Hence perhaps my passionate slating of TSPL. Look at it in the whole. When DL opened in 1955, there were very few characters at all, and as a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's, they were a very small part of the Disney experience. Now people focus on them and I think it is killing the parks.

Which is more unique - a barbershop quartet or a spotty teenager dressed up as Mickey Mouse?

Whilst I agree that having characters involved in every ride/hotel is not good, the majority of original DLP rides are based on them. Non character rides are great, such as TOT (which is still based on a TV show), but it is logical to relate rides and characters/movies together at DLP. Also, with regards to the reflection on the Pixar movies and characters, it is also logical to use them and not the older characters, as they are more well known these days and are key to marketing a new ride. Would a ride with Chip and Dale have the same appeal as a Pixar one?

However, I do think that they need to be subtle with the theming - that bedspread is a bit OTT!

Then why is Disney still doing attractions like Mystic Manor or Grizzly Trail. I don't think that it needs toons to promote new rides. As long as it is a great themed attraction it doesn't need a character tie in.

Quote from: "pussinboots"Oh by the way, do you know what most kids today also haven't heard of? Fantasia. Very few daycare centers play that DVD. The pacing is too slow and there isn't enough dialog. I suppose that's bad news for the Disneyland Hotel, then.

I haven't stayed in the DL hotel until now, but it is one of the most beautiful disney hotels. But if Disney is going to change this hotel, that would be the worst thing ever done by Disney.

Quote from: "pussinboots"God I wish Disney would raise their standards just a little bit.

I would say it needs more than just a little bit.

Quote from: "Reiana"I think we have to change our view of Disney. This is the Disney(land) for the next (3D/CGI/Pixar) generation.
The 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s are over. To all who are born in this years, we have to accept that we are the "old" generation.
Disney is moving on, maybe in the wrong direction. Maybe the have to learn their lesson.
I think we have to accept it, if we want it or not. The old Disney times are over. We can complain about it and hope Disney is willing to hear, but I think we can't change it. If we can't accept it, we have to leave Disney alone.

I think you are right about the view we have on Disney. Disney of today is about franchises and they want to make the most money with their products. When I first entered the world of Disney, especially the themeparks, I was happy with nearly anything Disney did. As long as it was done by Disney it was fine for me, even it was bad from today's point of view.

Then after visiting WDW everything changed for me. I was so disappointed by the Magic Kingdom and I realized what a great park DLP is. Then I started to read nearly everything about the company. One book, it is called "Disney War" showed a person, Roy E. Disney, that really cared about the company. He criticized nearly everything that was done, because it was done in a very cheap way and didn't live up to the Disney standard. He tried to change it, but he think he failed, because at the moment, especially in Paris, everything is done in a cheap way and in my opinion it doesn't live up to the Disney standard.

Now they are replacing the Clint Eastwood billboard. Okay that's fine from a marketing point of view, but I'm not sure what the original architect would say. I think none of the Disney hotels in Paris are designed by WDI, they only were involved in the DL Hotel.
They even don't repaint the billboard. That would be too expensive. They are using a prefabricated sheet that is just placed over Clint. So maybe it is just there for a short time whilst they are refreshing the paint of the Clint Eastwood billboard. I really really hope that this is going to happen!! [-o<

Reiana, I really hope you are right that they will learn their lesson and return to the Disney way. People aren't stupid and after a certain point they realize that it is the quality that brings them back to Disney. As long as the hotel rooms don'T get a refurbishment people will not return there just because of a new poster.

I really really really can´t understand this change. I think it´s cheap, odd and dated in the same way. The disney hotels have all detailed themes - they don´t need another. Why taking something timless and make it aging? Why taking a mexico style disney hotel and change it into a toony rubber cars hotel? If we see the Disney Hotels in the same way as the Disneyland Park as a stage where Cast Members act (and of course also disney characters) I ask myself why is the stage now the character? There´s now no room for own imagination. It´s a hard set of cars characters. It´s OK to like a Mexico/Santa Fee theme or to hate it. But change it into Cars?? It will have the same problem: you like cars or not. AND it will be very very dated after some years and after another Pixar movie.

The change of theming of disney hotels is for me an absolute wrong step. And by the way: I don´t like this "Children will love it" discussion. Sure my little second cousin will love it. But I think we talking here about a family resort. Isn´t at DLP any room for older disney fans? I mean it´s me paying my own vacation at Disney. And I wan´t not to see just cute kiddy things with toon themes everywhere. I want Main Street, Adventureland, Frontierland, Discoveryland, Newport Bay Club, Sequoia Lodge, Santa Fee and NOT Mary Poppins Street, Jack Sparrow Land, Woodys RoundUp Land, Buzz Land, Donalds Beach Club, Bambi´s Wooden Hotel, Carshotel....I just want a high quality themed stage for my visit. Don´t let the characters be the stage.

Quote from: "Riebi"Don´t let the characters be the stage.

Best line so far this month, if not this year. Totally agree.

Quote from: "Riebi"I really really really can´t understand this change. I think it´s cheap, odd and dated in the same way. The disney hotels have all detailed themes - they don´t need another. Why taking something timless and make it aging? Why taking a mexico style disney hotel and change it into a toony rubber cars hotel? If we see the Disney Hotels in the same way as the Disneyland Park as a stage where Cast Members act (and of course also disney characters) I ask myself why is the stage now the character? There´s now no room for own imagination. It´s a hard set of cars characters. It´s OK to like a Mexico/Santa Fee theme or to hate it. But change it into Cars?? It will have the same problem: you like cars or not. AND it will be very very dated after some years and after another Pixar movie.

The change of theming of disney hotels is for me an absolute wrong step. And by the way: I don´t like this "Children will love it" discussion. Sure my little second cousin will love it. But I think we talking here about a family resort. Isn´t at DLP any room for older disney fans? I mean it´s me paying my own vacation at Disney. And I wan´t not to see just cute kiddy things with toon themes everywhere. I want Main Street, Adventureland, Frontierland, Discoveryland, Newport Bay Club, Sequoia Lodge, Santa Fee and NOT Mary Poppins Street, Jack Sparrow Land, Woodys RoundUp Land, Buzz Land, Donalds Beach Club, Bambi´s Wooden Hotel, Carshotel....I just want a high quality themed stage for my visit. Don´t let the characters be the stage.

Maybe Disney is doing that to connect the hotel with the upcoming Cars 2 movie.

That also annoys me that it is all just about children. Disney is made for everyone. Disney could make so much more money when they are doing offers for couples without children. They have so much more money to spend.
Sometimes you get the feeling that you aren't welcomed at Disneyland when you don't have kids.

Off topic: For example once we were lining up to see the parade and it got very crowded, but some families thought that their kids are more important than us. I don't mind to let their kids standing in front of me to see, but I really got angry when the parents also tried to get in front of us.

What annoys me is how much it changed. When I was a kid growing up in Disneyland, it was the Jungle Cruise, PotC, Haunted Mansion, and Tomorrowland that really got me excited, and inspired me to go and read and learn about history, geography and science. Disney has forgotten how to inspire, and the public are becoming more dumb too (not everyone thank goodness).

When I took my wife on her first trip to DLP in 1999, she fell in love with the place. So much so we bought our first APs that year (and every year since). One year before we had kids, we went to DLP every 6 - 8 weeks, and had a great time with fine dining, dancing in the Village (Billy Bobs, Central Stage, Rock n Roll America, Huricanes), I would have a shave and a hair cut at Main Street (they had 2 barbers then).  It was awesome, and although friends would question why we went without kids, we would take some of them and they would fall in love too.

We honeymooned in WDW for 2 weeks, and again enjoyed the more adult offerings - Pleasure Island, Boardwalk, fireworks dinner at the California Grill, Victoria and Alberts, being in the Tapestry of Nations parade during the guest interaction bit, took part in the education programmes in Epcot and DAK, it was an amazing vacation (we returned a couple of years ago, and like DLP they have fully dumbed down the place).

Yet in the 45-50 years where characters were a small part, the parks had been wildly popular with all generations. TSPL really is the antithesis of the Disney experience - exposed, low capacity carnival rides that many are too short or too big for, with monster queues because they do not have the capacity of signature Disney attractions. The slope is slippery, it started in 2000, started to get really worse in 2005 and is getting worse all the time.

I don't think I could imagine doing DIsney the way my wife and I did 10 years ago - it has skewed too much to little ones (heck, even my 7 year old feels he is outgrowing some of the attractions).

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"What annoys me is how much it changed. When I was a kid growing up in Disneyland, it was the Jungle Cruise, PotC, Haunted Mansion, and Tomorrowland that really got me excited, and inspired me to go and read and learn about history, geography and science. Disney has forgotten how to inspire, and the public are becoming more dumb too (not everyone thank goodness).

When I took my wife on her first trip to DLP in 1999, she fell in love with the place. So much so we bought our first APs that year (and every year since). One year before we had kids, we went to DLP every 6 - 8 weeks, and had a great time with fine dining, dancing in the Village (Billy Bobs, Central Stage, Rock n Roll America, Huricanes), I would have a shave and a hair cut at Main Street (they had 2 barbers then).  It was awesome, and although friends would question why we went without kids, we would take some of them and they would fall in love too.

We honeymooned in WDW for 2 weeks, and again enjoyed the more adult offerings - Pleasure Island, Boardwalk, fireworks dinner at the California Grill, Victoria and Alberts, being in the Tapestry of Nations parade during the guest interaction bit, took part in the education programmes in Epcot and DAK, it was an amazing vacation (we returned a couple of years ago, and like DLP they have fully dumbed down the place).

Yet in the 45-50 years where characters were a small part, the parks had been wildly popular with all generations. TSPL really is the antithesis of the Disney experience - exposed, low capacity carnival rides that many are two short or two big for, with monster queues because they do not have the capacity of signature Disney attractions. The slope is slippery, it started in 2000, started to get really worse in 2005 and is getting worse all the time.

That's very well said. Wasn't it Walt's intention to bring other cultures, countries or places like space to the people. He created Tomorrowland to show people the future. Today Disney makes the attractions to make people buy DVDs or other merchandise.

I don't hate kids, in fact in every winter I'm part of as ki course with little kids, because it is funny to work with them. That's what I like about Disney that there are so many things for grown ups too. Unfortunately the things for us aren't improving.  It's getting worse.

I really hope that Disney will influence my life like it did yours.

For god sake, is it realy neccesary to turn every single topic in an 'anti toon invasion' and 'everything USED to be much better' discussion? Disney is adapting to the need of the current customer. Thanks to Pixar, the last couple of years, a new generation is connecting with Disney through the animated films and characters. You're forgetting that Disney is a company who, above everything else, wants to make profit. It's a business, not a playgarden. Cars is one of the most profittable franchises and is used as a bridge to the current generation (not to mention it's one of the few boys related franchises, which is what they are trying to focus on now). If it brings more of the 'green' to the company with a tie-in to the toons, then they do it. It's that simple. Disney executives have regularly stated that the Disney themeparks are being built to SELL the merchandise. Even Eiser said it when they built DLP. The revenues they generate with Cars merchandise are huge.

I can imagine that some of you don't like this new way of Disney doing business, I can understand, but the old days are gone. A company needs to addapt to the customer. The 'old' generation of Disneyland fans is getting smaller and smaller, the 'new' generation expects something else from the Disney resorts. They are growing up with franchises, blockbuster movies, characters and lots of Disney channels which are all around. Times are changing.

Funny, to me it feels like a market in the temple. Yes, modern things are fine, and change is fine. But I suggest you study your history. When Disneyland opened Mickey Mouse watches were the most popular variety, and Davy Crockett was an international phenomenon, both selling far more in GDP terms than anything today. Although both icons were represented in the park, they did not overrun the park.

Do you think the public ever asked for a pirate boat ride, or a haunted hotel with a lift that goes up and down? No, if you ask the public, they just pull from their own limited points of referrence. That is not what makes Disney world class.

If it were about carnival rides, ask yourself why Alton Towers only pulls in 15% of the crowds of Disney. If it were about the films and characters, why is Warner Bros Movie World also struggling (to the point where Warner Bros. pulled out of the German park). It is the quality, attention to detail, and the inclusion of the whole family that has been it's success. It would be like going into a Star bucks to find out they mainly sell water and juice. There are certain ethos and standards that are required. That is why I am so harsh about the European fan base, most do not understand what makes DIsney Disney, not a conscious level. But I bet if it were a park of steel coasters and rubber heads only, there would not be as many visitors over time.

Ever stop to think our queries and issues are based on the fact that we want DLP to succeed. How successful has all this tooning really been? Has Buffalo Bill's sold more tickets? Given all the freebees there, it doesn't seem like it. Has TSPL or Crush driven attendance the way Space Mountain did in 1995? No where near.

Ever stop to think this is why we hate the direction of travel, and we write our opinions on message boards in the hopes that DIsney will read and give pause for thought?

I have a snr. exec friend at Disney who claims unless it is tied to a franchise or is a thrill, Iger is unlikely to sign it off. And LAsseter is only interested in his creations. How does that future look to you.

In the States and Japan, Splash Mountain is one of the most popular attractions. And yet less than 98% of riders have ever seen the film it is based on. How many people have seen Wind in the Willows? Yet there is always a long wait for Mr Toad's Wild Ride. What are the most popular attractions at WDW? It used to be Tower of Terror, now it is Soarin'. There is a theme of what has longevity and what does not.

oh, and guess what, when I was a kid, we had blockbusters and franchises, and Disney did tie ins too (I fondly remember the Tron men being a part of the Main Street Electrical Parade for a couple of years). But it was not as blatant.

Any chance we can avoid this topic becoming another TSPL issue, if we could try to avoid generalisations about people or groups and how well or not they understand Disney I think we'll be able to keep a sensible discussion going longer.

Europe is a market place. In terms of business you always describe market constituents. How can we better stratify market segments so that it is not offensive given the fact the DLP is in Europe, where the majority of consumers are European, and DLP has unique (and some not so unique) issues without offending people who live in Europe? I find this most perplexing?

And is not the best way to learn something or to explore something is to discuss uncensored? I find some of the sentiments on this board most illogical?

Also, is it not surprising that this is the next iteration of an agenda DLP management have since TSPL, that there seems to be a growing contingent of people raising their concern while some seem to figuratively wish to put fingers in their ears and go "la la la la la, I can't hear you"?

People are indeed strange.

strange and predictable, suit yourself Dave, just a suggestion.

Quote from: "DopeyDad"Any chance we can avoid this topic becoming another TSPL issue, if we could try to avoid generalisations about people or groups and how well or not they understand Disney I think we'll be able to keep a sensible discussion going longer.

I don't think that this topic will turn into another TSPL issue. To have many different opinions is a great thing, because it keeps the discussion going on. And I think that nobody wants to repeat the TSPL fiasco. It would be boring if we all have the same opinions. As long as nobody gets hurt, we all will be fine.

You just have to look at the forum. After the opening of TSPL there wasn't much happening here. Now the forum is alive again.

All for differing opinion Dagobert and I personally agree with the general take on this topic, I just feel that it was the generalisations about fans, new fans and Europeans that started the TSPL topic becoming a bit silly. I'm sure it won't happen this time.

I think I would of perferred a proper refub of the hotel then a new poster and bedsheets.

Quote from: "littlemermaid83"I think I would of perferred a proper refub of the hotel then a new poster and bedsheets.

Absolutely

I think this European Fan base thing is a wrong point. It´s a very american view and it´s the kind of view that just say: "This stupid european don´t understand OUR Disney". And yes maybe they don´t that deep in disney or maybe they aren´t that loud and noisy with their protest, collection of signatures etc. etc. but that doesn´t mean that they don´t know something about disney quality. Mostly this "European thing" comes along with "cheap attractions" at WDS. But is this park loved, successfull, high attended by the European fan base and other european guests? No it isn´t. In a Disney view it´s an absolutly low attended park. Lower then other smaller park resorts at Europe. Lower then Europa Park. So what the "american fan base" has to understand is simply: The European don´t make noise. They don´t make big events again a Disney decision. They just don´t go into the park/hotel/attraction. They just leave disney. And why? I think BECAUSE Disney is not an european company (so they don´t care) and BECAUSE there is a big american fan base that let the european fans always know about the owner of Disney.

But now back on topic! It was not about kids and not about european fans (and not about TSPL which doesn´t look that evil to me  :lol: )

It was about Santa Fee is now Cars Hotel. And about the change of theming. Making good things cheap instead of a proper renovation to get again to better hotel standards and about decoration a themed hotel with aging products just because a wrong marketing brain think that this would attract people (and I can say such thinks cause I´m a marketing and communication brain  :P )

Quote from: "littlemermaid83"I think I would of perferred a proper refub of the hotel then a new poster and bedsheets.

Definately. But I think that Euro Disney SCA doesn't have the money to do a proper refurb, since they are already refurbishing the Sequoia Lodge.

BTW - I have lived in Europe for 24 years now, 2/3rds of my life. It is not a nationalism thing. In terms of Anaheim, we segment the So Cal Market, the West Coast Market and the rest. In Orlando, it is the heartland vs. International market analysis. In Japan they stratify the Office Ladies as a significant market, Tokyo market and Japanese market. HKDL looks at local vs. mainland vs. Australian.

Yet for some reason fans get riled up about talking about European markets. I really do not get the problem with that.

And is it not better to speak up and try to get Disney to change rather than just walk away? What kind of fan would want to do that?

I don´t think that the hard fan base (people here at the forum) just walk away but I think most visitors aren´t that interested in this big discussions we have here. They just got to the parks or not. If they don´t have the high quality disney expierence they don´t eat the cookie (WDS). If they like it they will stay for diner (DLP). Most people would prefer Europa Park instead of WDS but DLP instead of Europa Park. That´s because the quality of theming/of the stage.

Same for the Hotels. Most people would prefer Colosseo Hotel instead of Hotel New York but Disneyland Hotel instead of Colosseo. It´s not about Disney for the most european theme park visitors it´s only about quality. (Why supporting a US company if the quality isn´t that WOW DISNEY MAGIC EXPIRIENCE) They have to raise the quality of the hotels not retheme them. The theming is wonderful. But the quality is nineties and french.

The Disney Hotels have a problem that can´t get fixed with some character overlays. (And for the market analysis: I don´t think Disney have ever get the "european marked" that well. They dissapointed the europeans with WDS. They haven´t get the marked in 1992. And maybe today they even get it. In the same way they made their mistakes at japan and Hong Kong (not knowing that it´s a group of people that loves to buy souvenirs).)

So for the Disney hotels they have to do more. For this "European"/"American" fan thing: it´s just not true that europeans don´t want the disney quality and everyone can see that soo clearly by the attendance of WDS.

Quote from: "Riebi"I don´t think that the hard fan base (people here at the forum) just walk away but I think most visitors aren´t that interested in this big discussions we have here. They just got to the parks or not. If they don´t have the high quality disney expierence they don´t eat the cookie (WDS). If they like it they will stay for diner (DLP). Most people would prefer Europa Park instead of WDS but DLP instead of Europa Park. That´s because the quality of theming/of the stage.

Same for the Hotels. Most people would prefer Colosseo Hotel instead of Hotel New York but Disneyland Hotel instead of Colosseo. It´s not about Disney for the most european theme park visitors it´s only about quality. (Why supporting a US company if the quality isn´t that WOW DISNEY MAGIC EXPIRIENCE) They have to raise the quality of the hotels not retheme them. The theming is wonderful. But the quality is nineties and french.

The Disney Hotels have a problem that can´t get fixed with some character overlays. (And for the market analysis: I don´t think Disney have ever get the "european marked" that well. They dissapointed the europeans with WDS. They haven´t get the marked in 1992. And maybe today they even get it. In the same way they made their mistakes at japan and Hong Kong (not knowing that it´s a group of people that loves to buy souvenirs).)

So for the Disney hotels they have to do more. For this "European"/"American" fan thing: it´s just not true that europeans don´t want the disney quality and everyone can see that soo clearly by the attendance of WDS.

The Disney hotels definately have a big problem concerning room standards. If these hotels wouldn't be at a Disney resort, nobody would stay there, at least not for the prices charged. Disney has to take a huge amount of money to bring European standard to the hotels.

I don't know many people personally that go to Disney on a regular basis. Friends of us did go and they introduced us to Disney, but they quit, because they think the money isn't worth what they get. They are Europeans and they care a lot about Disney, and I also think that WDS shows that people are aware of the bad quality of the park.

But it is true that the fan base in Europe isn't as strong as in the US. There they had 50 years to grow. DLP opened 1992 to a bigger crowd. The next thing is that DLP is controlled by two companies. First there is TWDC that still has a lot to say and second there is Euro Disney SCA who runs the resort. So maybe that makes it more complicate to cater what the guests want. But it is also sad, that Disney has no ear for their fans.
Malin wrote in the D23 thread that when Disney announced the Fantasyland expansion that the fans there didn't react happily. Maybe they realized it, because now the plans are changing. Hopefully the same will happen with the Santa Fe hotel.

I think most Europeans instinctively know Disney quality from Disney garbage; they just don't haven't thrown themselves into the matter as much as we or Southern Californians have and therefore can't put their finger on the issue. My dad for instance is always saying how much better he liked the resort in 1993; he just thinks it's because he's not seeing it with fresh eyes anymore. And I doubt that The Little Mermaid II has been selling very well, to name but another example.

Anyway, with the exception of the fairly adequately maintained Disneyland Hotel, I don't really think they are interested in improving the hotels or even bringing them up to standard. One can get air conditioning, WiFi, hair dryers and coffee facilities now in the sort of motels that give away Campanile restaurant fliers, but not at Disney hotels. The Newport Bay Club is bursting at the seams and desperately needs a remodel, heck it needs a new lobby. And the Santa Fe, a hotel that if situated elsewhere could charge €40 a night, is so hideously substandard and derelict now that they should be thinking of rebuilding parts of it. (The theme funnily enough was just about the only thing that wasn't wrong with it.) But that's not going to happen, because it's already getting a new billboard and some new sheets.

But hey, it's a company and if people are willing to pay then blah blah blah.

Don't forget that Route 66 is a part of the Santa Fe's theme so 'Cars' fits in pretty well

Quote from: "mattboywonder"Don't forget that Route 66 is a part of the Santa Fe's theme so 'Cars' fits in pretty well

Route 66 also reached Chicago... But they could have at least snuck Lightning McQueen into the motif in a convincingly southwestern manner. Those bedsheets are about 90% Cars and 10% Santa Fe, and the themes don't manage to blend at all.
That billboard is about as subtle as a billboard. And we haven't seen the shower curtains yet.

:?
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Source: Disney Central Plaza's Facebook & relevent thread on their forum

Now i knw what's wrong with this picture. It's not the missing Clint. It's the colors. Look at the bright and shiny colors from McQueen and Sally then compare it to the buliding.
Santa Fe looks washed out and really, really, really needs a repaint.

Billborad - new
Hotel - old

Pretty bad combination :?

Btw. I still don't like it  ;)

Hmm....this is bit like TSPL for me.

It will be popular, and kids will love it, but I still prefer the non-film Disney, such as Discoveryland, Space Mountain, Frontierland etc. Same with all the Hotels, they're fantastically original, and so unique, yet these garish themes completley ruin it.

Quote from: "pussinboots"I think most Europeans instinctively know Disney quality from Disney garbage; they just don't haven't thrown themselves into the matter as much as we or Southern Californians have and therefore can't put their finger on the issue. My dad for instance is always saying how much better he liked the resort in 1993; he just thinks it's because he's not seeing it with fresh eyes anymore. And I doubt that The Little Mermaid II has been selling very well, to name but another example.

Anyway, with the exception of the fairly adequately maintained Disneyland Hotel, I don't really think they are interested in improving the hotels or even bringing them up to standard. One can get air conditioning, WiFi, hair dryers and coffee facilities now in the sort of motels that give away Campanile restaurant fliers, but not at Disney hotels. The Newport Bay Club is bursting at the seams and desperately needs a remodel, heck it needs a new lobby. And the Santa Fe, a hotel that if situated elsewhere could charge €40 a night, is so hideously substandard and derelict now that they should be thinking of rebuilding parts of it. (The theme funnily enough was just about the only thing that wasn't wrong with it.) But that's not going to happen, because it's already getting a new billboard and some new sheets.

But hey, it's a company and if people are willing to pay then blah blah blah.

It is so sad that the Disney hotels in Paris have such a bad standard. If the hotel, like you mentioned, would be somewhere else nobody would pay such prices. Disney shouldn't change the theme, they should improve the hotel. I wonder that Disney isn't ashamed of the low quality of their hotels. Just look at the hotel rating sites. The Paris Disney hotels don't get good ratings, but the partner hotels do. I really can pass on the EMH to get a better hotel for a lower price, since DLP is just opening a few rides in Fantasyland and Discoveryland.

I hope that the Disney hotels will not lose their guests to other hotels. Otherwise it will be hard to make money.

i know what you mean Dagobert - we stayed at the explorers and the kyriad this year and they werent bad at all - the kyriad had the plus of free wifi in the rooms to and seeing as this is the cheapest partner hotel i was pleasantly surprised. both hotels had complimentary tea coffee and biscuits in the room too - which is a pretty basic thing but you have to either ask or pay those at the Santa Fe and Cheyenne and pay 50% more for the room!!!.

I've had 5 stays at Santa Fe and I can agree that they could do some touch ups here and there, but I've never had a problem with the standard of the hotel.
I like the idea of making it Cars themed :) The current theme fits well and a few additions from Radiator Springs will be welcome to me ;)

The new billboard is the same one that they had at studio 1 and I like how the colors match the colors of the hotel. Personally I've never been a fan of Clint Eastwood, and I don't mind seeing him go, but that's just my personal opinion ;)

But either way I think I'll wait to pass judgement until I see the finished result ;) It could be just the refreshment Santa Fe needs :thumbs:

but thats the thing though, many of us who stayed at Santa Fe back in the 90s will remember seeing Clint when you first arrived there, and if it wasn't for disney i would probably have never have heard of Clint Eastwood when i was 4 years old  :D

Small announcement on DLP's English Twitter...

QuoteDisney_ParisEN    New! Lightning McQueen and Sally from Cars welcome guests at Disney's Hotel Santa Fe http://twitpic.com/2t3mg1 (http://twitpic.com/2t3mg1%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

More bad news.... Lightning McQueen and Sally are here to stay  :cry:

DLP's English Twitter confirms change it's permanent

QuoteDisney_ParisEN @DLRPStuff yes it will be permanent. Hope you will have the opportunity to see it soon!

Quote from: "never2old"More bad news.... Lightning McQueen and Sally are here to stay  :cry:

DLP's English Twitter confirms change it's permanent

QuoteDisney_ParisEN @DLRPStuff yes it will be permanent. Hope you will have the opportunity to see it soon!

That's really bad news, but I expected it to stay. Very sad.

I like the new billboard from Cars. After all what did Clint Eastwood have to do with Disney. He was the star in spaghetti western films. I think route 66, Cars and the hotel Santa Fe fit quite well.

Don't often post but just had to on this one.
We have stayed at the Santa Fe on 15 occasions (1992/3/5/6/7/8/9/2000/01/02/03/05/06 and 07 (extra spring break at Newport Bay in 94 and Cheyenne in 94 for the summer) so that giant picture was always the "rush" when we saw it. For the last 3 years we have roughed it at the Hotel Disneyland though  :P
For us, the refreshing thing was the fact that the hotels were themed by location and the characters were confined to the Hotel Disneyland (apart from the greeting etc). That made it rather special - as though we were IN those areas (we did visit all the other hotels over the years). There's something sad (to me) about mingling/mixing/messing about the themes with the Disney characters. Sometimes one needs an off switch after a day in the parks.
If you really think about it, few Disney rides are actually linked to Disney films anyway (Fantasyland excluded of course).
There's no Disney link to Space Mountain, Pirates of the Caribbean - well, until they brought out the film, anyway - Phantom Manor (as for Pirates re film) Orbitron, etc. Even the film-based ride Star Tours isn't Disney. Indiana Jones was a quick makeover of an off-the-peg ride to get a thrill ride in for 1993 so that doesn't even count (unlike the US ones)
There does seem to be a trend now to inserting Disney Characters into places they don't belong. Maybe, just maybe, there's a feeling that Mickey and the gang are getting too many "who is that" from the kids these days so they need to link in with later movies. The problem there is that they go out of fashion. Santa Fe was a well themed hotel - even down to the mickey cutout outside the restaurant (see, they sneaked him in) but to theme to a single movie (or series of movies) is going to date things very quickly.
Regarding the hotel itself. It IS 18 years old (and I'm sure they still have the same bed covers etc). It was getting in need of a clean up and decoration (the carpets were getting worn and the wallpaper starting to be stuck back with glue - not to mention numerous cigarette burns by the wash basins). OK, the place was a sweat box in the summer and those fans didn't really help, did they.
It does break my heart to think of Clint being replaced though. That sign had become quite iconic and, regardless of the age of the movie, still THE movie for that area. Classic movies never age or become old fashioned.
You may not be aware of this but the BGM for the Santa Fe has also now been changed to now include some tracks from Cars. That makes it pretty final, I think.
Sorry for the long ramble but I needed to share my pain................. :cry:

yeah, that!

Nicely put eyore! I think many of us here feel the same pain :(

Well said eyeore. Many here think the same way.

Well for me if it's about the billboard, I would of thought a gaint billboard featuring Clint Eastward dressed as a  cow boy would have fit in at the hotel Cheyenne, because it featured him in a spagetti western. It could have even worked at the WDS on a smaller scale because he is a movie star, anyway. But I wouldn't be disappointed or surprised to find Disney characters at a Disney hotel in a Disney Resort. So for me a billoard featuring Disney/Pixar successful movie Cars doesn't come as much of a surprise to me at the hotel Santa Fe. Now if it was a christmas Carol or Alice in Wonderland I wouldn't like it.

Oh men, this is bad  :(

I normally ain't that negative about DLRP, but this billboard and the "cars" theme is a bad thing.
I just loved the "not character theming" at the Hotels, this is only a little kids add, for the
grown-ups it's a sad thing....

Is the sense really lost at DLRP management and Imagineering?  :shock:

Clint Eastwood hasn't got a lot to do with Disney Imagineering though. I suppose DLP think Cars would have an appeal, after all plenty of adults enjoy Disney cartoons and animation. Just no character themeing in the hotels. Should Disney characters be band? I think a lot of families enjoy seeing Disney Characters. Thats one of the appeals of an on site hotel. I was happy with Clint, but I can see why DLP might want to make a small change after 18 years.

Quote from: "ed-uk"Clint Eastwood hasn't got a lot to do with Disney Imagineering though. I suppose DLP think Cars would have an appeal, after all plenty of adults enjoy Disney cartoons and animation. Just no character themeing in the hotels. Should Disney characters be band? I think a lot of families enjoy seeing Disney Characters. Thats one of the appeals of an on site hotel. I was happy with Clint, but I can see why DLP might want to make a small change after 18 years.

No off-course Disney is also the characters, sure thing, i love them as much.
But the thing is, it isn't only about that and all the last choices and adds are all about cheap characters
and none of them like the old days something surprissing or orginally new.

I know this is an opinion, so i respect that you may like it  :thumbs:

Of course it's your opinion and as such I respect it. But I don't know what you mean about "all the last choices and adds are all about cheap characters etc" I don't see what was so original about a billboad advertising Clint Eastwood in a spaghetti western film and what that has to do with hotel Santa Fe. It's OK to have an add for Clint Eastwood, but a billboard advertising one of Disney's own films at one of their hotels, no. But as I say Clint or Cars billboard I'm happy. I think they've replaced the billboard with Cars because the film and the characters in it are popular.

Quote from: "ed-uk"Of course it's your opinion and as such I respect it. But I don't know what you mean about "all the last choices and adds are all about cheap characters etc" I don't see what was so original about a billboad advertising Clint Eastwood in a spaghetti western film and what that has to do with hotel Santa Fe. It's OK to have an add for Clint Eastwood, but a billboard advertising one of Disney's own films at one of their hotels, no. But as I say Clint or Cars billboard I'm happy. I think they've replaced the billboard with Cars because the film and the characters in it are popular.

I understand the "why" in why they did this, but the thing is, the Clint Eastwood board was more like a random scenery thing then a marketing thing to the men or movie.
And for example on the character stuff: TSPL, SL Bambi adds, Mickey in Wild west show....

Well, I like the billboard :)  It fits in with the rest of the hotel, and a sligth change of theme every 18 years can't be that bad. One billboard and some new bedspreads isn't to me a big deal. If the billboard is reprecenting a drive-in movie screen, wouldn't it be natural to change the "movie" once or twice in all those years as long as it stays with the theme?
I can understand that for many of you seeing Clint when arriving at the hotel is a happy memory (been to dlrp 5 times and always stayed at Santa Fe, so see your pionts), but if changeing the billboard means that they'll  put in some new plants and repaint the buildings, it can be a good change and you can make new memories ;) And once "inside" the hotel you really don't see the front of the billboard anyway ;)

The billboard never looked much like a movie screen to me, but if that's what it's ment to represent then quite rightly they can change the film now and again. And why not to a Disney film? People shouldn't be too surprised to find Disney Characters and references to Disney films at their Resort hotels. But if some  people find it over load and just advertising after a day in the theme park, they would do better staying at an off site hotel. I don't mind Disney useing Bambi in SL, anymore than I mind them decorating the rooms at the Disneyland hotel with Tinkerbell and Sleeping Beauty Castle, as long as it's tasteful and not done out like a childs bedroom. I don't view it as advertising myself, if Disney want to use their characters.

Quote from: "ed-uk"The billboard never looked much like a movie screen to me, but if that's what it's ment to represent then quite rightly they can change the film now and again. And why not to a Disney film? People shouldn't be too surprised to find Disney Characters and references to Disney films at their Resort hotels. But if some  people find it over load and just advertising after a day in the theme park, they would do better staying at an off site hotel. I don't mind Disney useing Bambi in SL, anymore than I mind them decorating the rooms at the Disneyland hotel with Tinkerbell and Sleeping Beauty Castle, as long as it's tasteful and not done out like a childs bedroom. I don't view it as advertising myself, if Disney want to use their characters.

I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread that it's supposed to resemble a drive-in, but I could have heard it somewhere else. (I could be wrong...) But I can see it with the carpark outside facing the billboard ;)

I totally agree with you about the the use of caracters and I personally love to see caracters when I go to dlrp, wherever they may show up :D  And as you say, as long as it's not like a childs room, it doesn't hurt (me) ;)

(I actually have a photo of that billboard from when they had it on studio 1, and I have to say I like it better at Santa Fe ;))

Always wondered why Clint Eastwood was featured at Disney but I don't understand the more recent Disney stars becoming part of a hotel. Doesn't it make sense really to incorporate the current and next generations of Disney stars but also intergrating with the old too?

This seems to be a matter of personal opinion, but for me I can totally see why Disney made this decision. I agree with the previous poster who said that the hotel doesn't just need a billboard and bedsheets, it needs a serious overhaul. I've never stayed here - in fact, I've never even considered it because I think it looks dreadful, very barren and ugly.
That said, I think this Cars overlay makes the place a bit cheerier, the Cars billboard makes more sense than Clint Eastwood, and will probably make the hotel more appealing to families and fans of Cars (of which there are many)
To me it makes perfect sense to integrate Disney characters into the hotels, as long as it fits the original theme. It's a Disney resort, why shouldn't it be about characters? I think Cars fits the Route 66 theme of Santa Fe, and Bambi is a lovely idea for Sequoia Lodge. I say, thumbs up to Disney for incorporating both classic and new generation characters into the hotels - all of which need more TLC than this, but it's a start.

Quote from: "loladelorean"It's a Disney resort, why shouldn't it be about characters?

And this is why I am now far more a Disney historian that a Disney fan these days. Sorry folks, the characters were really a small part of the Disney resort experience until relatively recently. I really do not like the characters at all. I would be happier if there were not one character to be found in the Disney resorts. And you know what? I bet I am not alone in that either.

To add some more background, I read in some book a while ago (Building a Dream? The Architecture of Reassurance? Once Upon an American Dream? I don't have all my books here in Paris...) that the architect, Antoine Predock, originally wanted a blank movie screen for the drive-in theater/parking. After a fierce debate with Disney management he finally relented and insisted on it being Clint Eastwood or nothing.

Now, I've never really been a huge fan of the Santa Fe... I find it somewhat too abstract and intellectual, too "cold," for a Disney resort. But I do respect an artist's vision for his project and I can appreciate the contrast he tried to achieve.

That said, his intentions for the Santa Fe were already compromised years ago when they changed the buildings' colors and added the Route 66 mural...

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"

Quote from: "loladelorean"It's a Disney resort, why shouldn't it be about characters?

And this is why I am now far more a Disney historian that a Disney fan these days. Sorry folks, the characters were really a small part of the Disney resort experience until relatively recently. I really do not like the characters at all. I would be happier if there were not one character to be found in the Disney resorts. And you know what? I bet I am not alone in that either.

I can see what you are saying Davewasbaloo, too many characters abound in the park these days and many of them are very similar and really only there for merchandising but if it wasnt for the characters there would be no Disney. How many of the rides wouldnt exist without characters and no parades at all, however you can have too many and throwing at the hotels doesnt paper over the many cracks in the hotels. The hotels should be a respite from the parks, an "oasis" of calm before a day of fantasy,adventure and memories.

Quote from: "RockNRoller"

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"

Quote from: "loladelorean"It's a Disney resort, why shouldn't it be about characters?

And this is why I am now far more a Disney historian that a Disney fan these days. Sorry folks, the characters were really a small part of the Disney resort experience until relatively recently. I really do not like the characters at all. I would be happier if there were not one character to be found in the Disney resorts. And you know what? I bet I am not alone in that either.

I can see what you are saying Davewasbaloo, too many characters abound in the park these days and many of them are very similar and really only there for merchandising but if it wasnt for the characters there would be no Disney. How many of the rides wouldnt exist without characters and no parades at all, however you can have too many and throwing at the hotels doesnt paper over the many cracks in the hotels. The hotels should be a respite from the parks, an "oasis" of calm before a day of fantasy,adventure and memories.

I can honestly say, I can't think of one character experience in a Disney park that is a must do for me other than Splash Mountain (and most people haven't even seen Song of the South). For my kids, the only ones I can think of are Stitch Live and Buzz).

But our favs of Phantom Manor, Big Thunder, PotC, the Train, the Mark Twain, Space Mountain, Star Tours, Capt Eo, It's a Small World, Moteurs Action, Tower of Terror, Cinemagique, Rock n Roller Coaster, Soarin', Jungle Cruise, Tiki Room, American Adventure, Spaceship Earth, most of Epcot and DAK all have little nothing to do with the characters. Yes, Disney became initially famous because of them, but when it comes to the parks and resorts in their 55 year history, only the last 15 have really been about pushing the characters, getting far worse during Iger's reign.

Do you like The Art of Disney Animation in the Studios, just wondering? Maybe Disney are pushing their characters because there's a demand for them. For some Disney theme park fans  it's about the characters, for others it's about the rides, but for most fans it's probably both. People enjoy the films and they like the characters. Just like with film stars, families queue up to meet them and get their autographs. Not that I do that.

Quote from: "ed-uk"Maybe Disney are pushing their characters because there's a demand for them.

Yes, that's pretty much what I said in my post regarding market research. It's the safest approach, giving people what they know they want...

Of course, there's the story that people wanted to visit the Disney Studios in California and Walt thought it just wouldn't be all that interesting. So he came up with ideas to create some point of interest that people could visit instead... If Walt had just given them what they wanted, I guess Disneyland would never have happened...

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"

Quote from: "loladelorean"It's a Disney resort, why shouldn't it be about characters?

And this is why I am now far more a Disney historian that a Disney fan these days. Sorry folks, the characters were really a small part of the Disney resort experience until relatively recently. I really do not like the characters at all. I would be happier if there were not one character to be found in the Disney resorts. And you know what? I bet I am not alone in that either.

I do not want to argue with you, I more than respect your opinion and am envious of your long history of Disney park visits!
I can't claim to be any more than a fan, and I'm happy to be one. I'm sure you're right that you're not alone in your views, but many of us are "ignorant" and happy to accept the characters as part of the resort experience.

I think the key thing here is balance. And I think that is what has been missing. Although the characters do nothing for me, I am not stupid, I know they are popular. However, if it were all about the characters, DLP would be no where near as popular. Butlins offers up character breakfasts with well known licences, but it is no where near as popular as Disney. But the key is to get the balance right, and as I have written with impirical evidence many times over, the last 10 years, 90% of Disney's attractions have focused on the characters.

Walt could have gone down the easy route with meet and greets, and if he replied to what people expected we would have had a park of coasters and big wheels. Instead he thought outside the box and gave us jungle river cruises, rockets to the moon (well back in the 50's then to Mars when space travel increased), rampaging pirates, submarine cruises and singing ghosts. How many punters would have asked for those? But how popular have they been? They led to an international proliferation of parks and resort buildings.

And it wasn't just Walt either. In Eiger's golden years he continued, giving us the finest designed MK park here in Europe, Tokyo Disney Sea, Animal Kingdom and of course some amazing hotels taking us to other parts of the world. That is the real Disney difference, and that is how they have created such a loyal following. The toons are only a part of the story.

Let's remind us of Walt's original vision for the parks:

"To all that come to this happy place: welcome. Disneyland is your land. Here age relives fond memories of the past, and here youth may savor the challenge and promise of the future. Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America... with hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world."

Here is a balanced article that I think sums up the problem I and some old school folk have with it. No doubt it will also fuel the debate in favour of characters, but as I can be a polarising figure on here, I thought it would be useful to share another's perspective:

http://gregmaletic.wordpress.com/2005/1 ... isneyland/ (http://gregmaletic.wordpress.com/2005/10/14/the-meaning-of-disneyland/%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

A lot of things seem different even Disney theme parks when we are aged ten, and we look back years later as adults. Today parents even buy costumes and dress their children up to look like Buzz Lightyear,Stitch and Snow White and other  Disney characters. I've seen them wondering round Disneyland or being pushed in brams. The parents probably get as much fun out of it as the kids do. Some of the children are probably too young to know any better. I've tried reading the article. I feel like I've heard it all before, how much better Disneyland used to be. I might try again later. I mean it's all still there Frontierland, Main Street USA etc. Disneyland Paris still says more about American culture and "the hard facts that created America" than French culture and the hard facts that created France.

Instead of characters, why don't they turn their attention to proper maintenance, check this out:

http://http://micechat.com/forums/disne ... pdate.html (http://http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort-paris/144177-disneyland-paris-maintenance-update.html%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

It's a balance. Most people want characters and maintenance. They can't get rid of the characters and just concentrate on the paint work and some AA's. How to DLP advertise that. Come and stay with us and see our new paint work on Main Street? Great video though. Seriously, they can't get rid of the characters.

Sorry, wrong link. Please check out the new link. If they reintroed things like the Barbershop quartet and Merlin's Sword in the Stone etc. they could market it as living the legacy or some other marketing BS. It would be an improvement.

Quote from: "ed-uk"It's a balance. Most people want characters and maintenance. They can't get rid of the characters and just concentrate on the paint work and some AA's. How to DLP advertise that. Come and stay with us and see our new paint work on Main Street? Great video though. Seriously, they can't get rid of the characters.

I agree! Would you really get repet visitors at disney parks with not a character in sight? There has to be a balance, people won't come to see the characters if the park and hotels are falling apart either, but to cut out the caracters would not be good.

I love Disney movies, old and new, and for me going to Disneyland is seeing characters. Now, I also love the classic rides ad DLP, my favourite is BTM, but I also really enjoy laser blast :D  Mr.Disneys vision is a really good one, and I very much support it, but times change, and there are new generations. People grow up with the movies and the characters and love seeing them. For me going to Disneyland meens stepping in to a whole different world and the characters are a part of that. And when seeing the faces of little kids when they see the characters, is priceless! And wasn't Walt about the kids and keeping the child withing you? And when you see adults taking pictures with characters you can absolutely see the child within them :D  

When it comes to the hotels, for us they've always been a place to sleep at night and get ready in the morning. Most of our time is spent in the parks or village, and I sleep just as well with a picture of Cars on the wall as a picture of a rock formation. As long as the decor isn't overpowering (and that goes for any decor), I really don't mind. But when you're 5 and the hotel is the first thing you see when you arrive, I can see that a room with slight Disney decor would be a great way to start off ;)
And most parents probably care more about the cleanlyness than the caracter decor ;)  

But we all have different reasons for loving Disney, and maybe characters aren't for everyone, but can you really have a Disney park without them?

It all started with a Mouse, Mickey Mouse.  He's an iconic fiqure all around the world. If it hadn't been for the success of Disney cartoon films like Snow White and Cinderella, Disneyland would probably never have been built. Disneys films and characters are very important to the company. So we shouldn't be surprised to find them in the theme parks and hotels. Even I've stopped to have my picture taken with them. Disney has more characters to choose from now, maybe that's why we see more.

Very well worded article, thanks Davewasbaloo. Who is the author? I suspect he would not feel reassured by the past few years across all the parks. While I think a couple of assumptions he makes are flawed the central point about what is the message of the park is very well made. Now, I think the message at Paris should be different to a US, Japan or other park, but I do believe that message needs to be clear as I suspect that has already been key to the parks (worldwide that is) success. As for characters, my family love seeing characters around the parks although we're unlikely to join a scrum (sorry, queue) to get an autograph. For me I think the crucial difference it that characters inhabit the parks, but the parks are not defined by the characters. So its great to discover a character while exploring the park, and the rides can feel like somewhere where one of your favorite movie/literature figures might be, but this world we are visited has not been made around the characters. The same applies for a corner of main street, the castle or a ride. The attraction may or may not be based on the world of a character but it is not essential for the character to be there, because you are. That's the magic and the story telling. Perhaps if the parks environment and attractions become too contrived for the characters sake it will become harder to imagine anything else, so the story and experience has been lessened which I think would be a shame.
I can see the business arguments for using branding and market research results, but I fear it may backfire and result in fewer return visits.

Well, so far I don't think the characters take over the park. You mainly see them in the Mainstreet and Fantasyland area, Toon Studio area and at sertain times during the day. Not counting shows and parades. I think the current level of "live" characters is a good one. I've hardly ever seen a character in Discoveryland, Adventureland or Frontierland just walking around (again not counting shows or the now and then, meet and greet of Aladdin and Captain Jack...)

For me, so far so good :thumbs:

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Here is a balanced article that I think sums up the problem I and some old school folk have with it. No doubt it will also fuel the debate in favour of characters, but as I can be a polarising figure on here, I thought it would be useful to share another's perspective:

http://gregmaletic.wordpress.com/2005/1 ... isneyland/ (http://gregmaletic.wordpress.com/2005/10/14/the-meaning-of-disneyland/%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

To me it seemes the author may have lost his inner child. The ideals of the 50 years ago however well they were ment and great they were, are to me a bit unrealistic now. Times change and the world change. Offcourse a park built about 20 years later than the first one (and in Europe) will naturally have a different decleration, but to queation wether it sould have been built or not, well I don't know. Walt brougth stories from all over the world to America (a country of European immigrants) so why shouldn't the parks come to the rest of the world?

For someone who have kept her inner child, I always leave the park feeling inpired and happy, and in the current state of t6eh world, isn't the idea of wanting to bring happiness and toghetherness into peoples lives a great thing?

well I steeled myself and read the article. I can't say I enjoyed it. I don't know what the author was trying to say. All I can say is the theme park is called Disneyland. The man who gave his name to the park is no longer here to move the park forward and adapt it to the 21st century. So it's left to a new generatioon of imagineers and busnessmen to take the Walt Disney Company forward. I do know that the company is highly successful, Walt Disney's name is still above the door, and it's still an independently owned company. Unlike Universal Studios which lost it's independence years ago and is now owned by I'm not sure who. Obviously who ever runs the company with have to take interest in market trends and ever changing fads and keep it profitable. He will have to keep a keen eye on the competition.

I think the big difference is that the Disney of old didn't so much follow trends as to create them...

And other theme park operaters have copied Disneys trends and come up with some ideas of their own, which isn't really surprising.

Quote from: "DopeyDad"Very well worded article, thanks Davewasbaloo. Who is the author?

His name is Greg Maletic - he is a professional software and entertainment journalist.

Quote from: "RiverRogue"I think the big difference is that the Disney of old didn't so much follow trends as to create them...

Isn't it sad that they don't do it anymore. Disney was always proud and I'm sure Disney still is of creating something new, especially in the themepark business. I can't wait to see the first concept arts about Shanghai Disneyland and maybe we see something new that Disney hasn't done before.

Having taken my 2 year old son, Lucas, for the first time 2 weeks ago I'm 100% behind the Santa Fe renovations. We stayed at the Santa Fe previously in 2005 and it was dark, dull and seemed to have very little to do with Disney. When we stayed in the Cheyenne 2 weeks ago Lucas loved the fort the most - he didn't appreciate the theming of the place like we did and do. His favourite thing in DLP was Cars Quatre Roues Rallye, which is no great surprise as Lightning McQueen is his hero! After 8 visits to our beloved Cheyenne, this latest Cars refurbishment to Santa Fe will have us returning there for our next visit.

Seeing Disneyland Paris through the eyes of Lucas has changed how we look at it too. I was never bothered about a Clint Eastwood billboard before, but to have Cars there in its place is the best news possible, because I know Lucas's eyes will light up when he sees it. Then when he goes into the room and sees a Cars duvet cover and pictures, well, he'll be in heaven. I hope they add more Cars theming if I'm honest.

Well, I'm sorry, but if pleasing two-year-olds were the ultimate goal of Disney Imagineering they would surely suffice with some bright colors and moving shiny objects and never even need to bother with complex back-stories or historical research or expensive quality materials or skilled craftsmanship or any of that time-consuming stuff that toddlers fail to fully appreciate in favor of cartoon characters. But then that might be a little glance into the future there...

It was and is indeed dark and dull, but such oversimple fixes are not what any of us should be settling for. Otherwise they might as well just whip out some Christmas lights and a few disco balls and "fix" Hotel New York next.

I don't think it's as simplistic as pleasing 2 year olds, I think it's pleasing families in general and a lot of that will come from the happiness of children. If the children love Disneyland Paris then the families will keep coming back and new generations of DLP visitors will be spawned.

I don't think changing one hotel is as drastic as some are making it out to be and the change must be revenue driven. From our own experience I'd expect a fair number of people who've stayed at Santa Fe not to return because of the lack of any real identity or atmosphere. Now with the re-branding it's a hotel that we'll more than likely book for our next visit.

A Cars themed hotel, especially with the new film coming out, is one they can market very well - how do you market the Santa Fe of old? The continued 40% off deals are an indication that occupancy is nowhere near being fulfilled and if they can capitalise on a strong brand then all power to them. They haven't taken away a classic piece of Disney history they've improved a weak link in the hotel chain, without affecting any of the other hotels for those who want to chose not have a character themed stay on the resort.

There's a new generation of Disney fans, many of which probably think Pixar is Disney. Now while you don't want to take away all the classic icons of Disney history from the park you do have to accommodate for the new fans which is where Toy Story Playland and the Santa Fe's Cars theme come into play.

I find it deeply disturbing how the concept of marketing has become a universal thing now. This sort of thinking — "how do you market the Santa Fe of old" — that's not a normal thought. That's a college degree, a college degree for greedy people with no natural skills, a very specific conundrum that was once held exclusively by a select group of boisterous men in suits in fake-wood-paneled offices. It gained popularity in Hollywood somewhere in the mid-'90s as a result of the fear that the Internet would destroy cinema, and now we're at the ludicrous point where the general population cannot see how a film unrelated to an already popular franchise could possibly be successful at the box office. Or, how a hotel without Pixar wallpaper could possibly entice anyone to stay there. It's ridiculous.

Are we really at the point where we can't just get excited about staying in a hotel with a Southwestern theme?

Anyway. Santa Fe already has a theme, and it doesn't matter if that theme doesn't have its own uber-popular Nintendo Wii game out right now. It needs to be better exploited, and the hotel needs countless very basic upgrades, but it has a perfectly workable theme.

In answer to your question, yes, I think times have changed. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is down to personal opinion, but it's the job of DLP to exploit those changes in society. As for a Southwestern theme, that doesn't really translate so well to European audiences, young or old.

We have to have some perspective here, it's only one hotel that's getting the Pixar treatment, not all of them. For one hotel to represent the shift in public perception and desire is actually quite a minimalist move in the grand scale of things.

I totally agree. It's not about just pleasing kids or adults, but both. As an adult without kids, I have to say I like the pixar movies. I think the stories are great and the characters are loveable :)  
Kids love to see their favourite charecters and so does many adults ;) So I'm really supprised at how many people actually seem to get offended over a little bit of extra character incorporation. If Disney weren't to evolve over the years and cater to new generations, as well as the older ones, where would it be now?

I just don't think it's true that people will always automatically respond to familiarity — they might actually still respond to quality, heaven forbid. The biggest success in the history of Disneyland Paris is still Space Mountain, which only hinged on a century-old book forgotten by all but sci-fi history enthusiasts. Disney's only successful films nowadays are Pixar's, which are still genuine and mostly original works, whereas their artificially forged "sure-fire hits" bomb time after time (I think I hear "Tangled" coming down somewhere). That strategy you two describe may not actually work. So they may be slowly destroying their resorts and not getting any richer. Oh joy.

I don't think thats what either of us is saying, and in one of my earlier post I saied there had to be a happy medeum. As I also said BTM is my favourite ride and I would hate to see it go. Take away the non-Disney thrill rides and you'll lose people but you'll also lose people if you take away the familiar Disney... Considering there are height restrictions on most of the non-Disney rides there will be lots of families visiting where only the parents can ride...

If you can keep the big average of customers happy, bring in some new without loosing the good old Disney it would be perfect ;)  And under this subject a refurbish of Santa Fe with a touch of Cars is, to me personally, not an overpowering statement of "new"...

Quote from: "pussinboots"I just don't think it's true that people will always automatically respond to familiarity — they might actually still respond to quality, heaven forbid.

To my mind Santa Fe wasn't quality, so adding familiarity was a good move. I wouldn't change the other hotels because I think they are of a high enough standard not to need any such enhancements.

Quote from: "pussinboots"The biggest success in the history of Disneyland Paris is still Space Mountain, which only hinged on a century-old book forgotten by all but sci-fi history enthusiasts. Disney's only successful films nowadays are Pixar's, which are still genuine and mostly original works, whereas their artificially forged "sure-fire hits" bomb time after time (I think I hear "Tangled" coming down somewhere).

With this in mind the decision to add some Pixar Cars theming to Santa Fe is surely a good thing as it's a celebration of Disney/Pixar originality, in the same vein as the previous attractions that have and still do make Disney parks so great.

I think you need to think about that last sentence a little bit longer. Let it marinate for a while.

Quote from: "pussinboots"I just don't think it's true that people will always automatically respond to familiarity — they might actually still respond to quality, heaven forbid.

i doubt anybody would ever put the words quality and santa fe into the same sentence with the hotel as it stands..
were staying at the santa fe in november quite franky because its the cheapest hotel and it was a last minute holiday added into an already hectic and expensive few months, we are going as a couple, but when we return next year to bring our toddler for the first time, i doubt id take him to the santa fe because id want him to have that disney magic that the santa fe just lacks to me, when its changed to a cars theme then it will be a whole different story, my whole aim as a parent is to make my child happy, and i do think a retheme will attract alot of business to this run down part of the resort, if it doesnt work out then its only a couple of pictures and bedspreads to change, i do think it will give the hotel a whole new lease of life if done properly. dont get me wrong i dont even really like cars and i fully agree that it doesnt really fit in with the other hotels etc, i wish they wouldnt have let the hotel get to the state its in but they have and now they are trying to sort it out.

i dont understand why people are moaning about it though, if you dont like it then you have a load of other hotels to choose from you dont even have to see it if you dont want to, jeeez

Quote from: "figaro"i dont understand why people are moaning about it though, if you dont like it then you have a load of other hotels to choose from you dont even have to see it if you dont want to, jeeez

Probably because we are annoyed at all the over priced hotels going into the quality toilet, or the new vision shoving toons down our throats until we either succumb or vomit.

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"

Quote from: "figaro"i dont understand why people are moaning about it though, if you dont like it then you have a load of other hotels to choose from you dont even have to see it if you dont want to, jeeez

Probably because we are annoyed at all the over priced hotels going into the quality toilet, or the new vision shoving toons down our throats until we either succumb or vomit.

quality means different things to different people :)

Quote from: "figaro"

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"

Quote from: "figaro"i dont understand why people are moaning about it though, if you dont like it then you have a load of other hotels to choose from you dont even have to see it if you dont want to, jeeez

Probably because we are annoyed at all the over priced hotels going into the quality toilet, or the new vision shoving toons down our throats until we either succumb or vomit.

quality means different things to different people :)

and to be honest i begrudge paying to stay in the santa fe as its a pile of rubbish, but i will because i could never stay anywhere else than in the resort, if i had an extra couple of hundred then id be straight in the npbc but i dont. id rather stay in a room thats cars themed than a room thats shabby, dated and in dire need of a lick of paint, they are catering to lots of different people and weve just got to accept that theres going to be lots of people that are going to look in brochure and see a cars themed hotel and think yaay lets stay there, we all have different tastes,

(and i do agree that toons are making their way everywhere but i can overlook it because i know my kid will love it, and that will go a huge way into making my day a disney kind of day lol)

Quote from: "figaro"

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"

Quote from: "figaro"i dont understand why people are moaning about it though, if you dont like it then you have a load of other hotels to choose from you dont even have to see it if you dont want to, jeeez

Probably because we are annoyed at all the over priced hotels going into the quality toilet, or the new vision shoving toons down our throats until we either succumb or vomit.

quality means different things to different people :)

What does quality mean for you?

For me a hotel that charges the prices like Santa Fe does, has to offer a nicer room, especially not furnitures and bed sheets that are 20 years old. And of course a better housekeeping and cleaning. At least the hotel gets new bed sheets, even if they are based on Cars.

By the way I'm going to stay in another Vienna International hotel next weekend. If this hotel will be as nice as the VI hotel in Prague, we will definately say good bye to the Disney hotels in Paris and we will try the VI hotels at DLRP. These hotels combined with an annual pass, so that we can use the EMH, aren't so much more expensive than Santa Fe with the difference that they offer a 4 stars quality instead of 2 stars.

Quote from: "dagobert"What does quality mean for you?

For me a hotel that charges the prices like Santa Fe does, has to offer a nicer room, especially not furnitures and bed sheets that are 20 years old. And of course a better housekeeping and cleaning. At least the hotel gets new bed sheets, even if they are based on Cars.

By the way I'm going to stay in another Vienna International hotel next weekend. If this hotel will be as nice as the VI hotel in Prague, we will definately say good bye to the Disney hotels in Paris and we will try the VI hotels at DLRP. These hotels combined with an annual pass, so that we can use the EMH, aren't so much more expensive than Santa Fe with the difference that they offer a 4 stars quality instead of 2 stars.

for me disney wouldnt be disney if i didnt stay in one the hotels, i love the walk in the morning to the park its just something i dont think a non disney hotel could replicate for me, i completly agree, i really dont like cars at all but anything is better than the current state of the santa fe :(

Quote from: "figaro"

Quote from: "dagobert"What does quality mean for you?

For me a hotel that charges the prices like Santa Fe does, has to offer a nicer room, especially not furnitures and bed sheets that are 20 years old. And of course a better housekeeping and cleaning. At least the hotel gets new bed sheets, even if they are based on Cars.

By the way I'm going to stay in another Vienna International hotel next weekend. If this hotel will be as nice as the VI hotel in Prague, we will definately say good bye to the Disney hotels in Paris and we will try the VI hotels at DLRP. These hotels combined with an annual pass, so that we can use the EMH, aren't so much more expensive than Santa Fe with the difference that they offer a 4 stars quality instead of 2 stars.

for me disney wouldnt be disney if i didnt stay in one the hotels, i love the walk in the morning to the park its just something i dont think a non disney hotel could replicate for me, i completly agree, i really dont like cars at all but anything is better than the current state of the santa fe :(

I also loved the walk from the hotel to the parks along the river. I have some great memories about the hotel, but after staying in so many hotels in the last years I don't want to spend my money on old 2 star or 3 star hotels when I can get a 4 star hotel for nearly the same price. Even if I have skip the walk around Lake Disney and through DV to the parks.

Since Disney started to refurbish the Sequoia Lodge, maybe we will stay in this hotel again when the refurb is completed.

Quote from: "dagobert"

Quote from: "figaro"

Quote from: "dagobert"What does quality mean for you?

For me a hotel that charges the prices like Santa Fe does, has to offer a nicer room, especially not furnitures and bed sheets that are 20 years old. And of course a better housekeeping and cleaning. At least the hotel gets new bed sheets, even if they are based on Cars.

By the way I'm going to stay in another Vienna International hotel next weekend. If this hotel will be as nice as the VI hotel in Prague, we will definately say good bye to the Disney hotels in Paris and we will try the VI hotels at DLRP. These hotels combined with an annual pass, so that we can use the EMH, aren't so much more expensive than Santa Fe with the difference that they offer a 4 stars quality instead of 2 stars.

for me disney wouldnt be disney if i didnt stay in one the hotels, i love the walk in the morning to the park its just something i dont think a non disney hotel could replicate for me, i completly agree, i really dont like cars at all but anything is better than the current state of the santa fe :(

I also loved the walk from the hotel to the parks along the river. I have some great memories about the hotel, but after staying in so many hotels in the last years I don't want to spend my money on old 2 star or 3 star hotels when I can get a 4 star hotel for nearly the same price. Even if I have skip the walk around Lake Disney and through DV to the parks.

Since Disney started to refurbish the Sequoia Lodge, maybe we will stay in this hotel again when the refurb is completed.

i love the sequoia lodge thats were weve stayed the most and im considering that for our next trip when we have longer to save, though i have to say the npbc is my alll time favourite

Just a thougt...

At the beginning of "Cars" Radiator Springs is a run down little place in desert, not quite unlike the Santa Fe ;) But after McQueen rolls in it evetually gets some press, people start coming back and it is refurbished in to a welcoming desert retreat. Who knows, maybe thats the idea behind the cars theme? (Not to turn it in to Radiator Springs, but a nice oasis on the outskirts of the Disney Resort. A place to stop, not just drive by)
At least it's gotten a lot of talk here since McQueen came to "town" :)

It sure does haha  ;)

You know, it doens't even bother me that much, as long as they do it with quality and real passion!!
That's, i guess, Walt's biggest thing missing mostly nowadays, purely passion and believe in dreams that can become reality!!

Quote from: "Soap"It sure does haha  ;)

You know, it doens't even bother me that much, as long as they do it with quality and real passion!!
That's, i guess, Walt's biggest thing missing mostly nowadays, purely passion and believe in dreams that can become reality!!

I think thats where the focus should be... With any theme anywhere at the resort, some people will like it and some will not. The important thing is the quality of it :)

So far though, a few new bedspreads, boring room pictures and a replacement banner hoisted up over the entrance doesn't really exude quality or investment. It seems entirely like a cheap sticking plaster; something to distract guests from the fact that the hotel probably needs major updating if it's going to continue charging the prices it does. But instead of actually investing in better rooms or a nicer environment around the hotel (like landscaping over all that horrible car parking or actually bothering to maintain the children's playground), they'll be justifying that premium with these lazy and half-hearted character add-ons, which can't be good for anyone.

Quote from: "Anthony"So far though, a few new bedspreads, boring room pictures and a replacement banner hoisted up over the entrance doesn't really exude quality or investment. It seems entirely like a cheap sticking plaster; something to distract guests from the fact that the hotel probably needs major updating if it's going to continue charging the prices it does. But instead of actually investing in better rooms or a nicer environment around the hotel (like landscaping over all that horrible car parking or actually bothering to maintain the children's playground), they'll be justifying that premium with these lazy and half-hearted character add-ons, which can't be good for anyone.

Do you know if the Cars billboard will be permanent? Maybe the Clint Eastwood picture was in such a bad shape that Disney replaced it. The Santa Fe really needs a refurbishment, especially for the prices Disney charges, like you have already said. Hopefully Disney will improve the hotel after the SL refurbishment.

According DLP themselves, the Cars theming is there to stay. They have said that the issues such as the hotel needing to be painted will be brought up the maintenance team - your guess is as good as mine as to if and when that happens.

I don't think what they've done so far is a quality refurb, but if there is going to be one the quality is more important than the theme ;)

On my first visit to Santa Fe, I remeber they had these lovely lavenders all over and last summer, 10 years later, they looked really sad :(  I love lavender and I thougt they fit in at the hotel really nice.
One can tell that the rooms are getting on in years, but I've never had any bad experiences with housekeeping, so for me that's the most important. Not that I wouldn't like to walk in to a completely refurbished room ;)

So...
(//http://pixiedust.be/DLP%205%20oktober%202010%20169.jpg)

(//http://pixiedust.be/DLP%205%20oktober%202010%20168.jpg)

(//http://pixiedust.be/DLP%205%20oktober%202010%20167.jpg)

(//http://pixiedust.be/DLP%205%20oktober%202010%20166.jpg)

(//http://pixiedust.be/DLP%205%20oktober%202010%20165.jpg)

Meanwhile, on the outside of the building...
(//http://pixiedust.be/DLP%205%20oktober%202010%20162.jpg)

(//http://pixiedust.be/DLP%205%20oktober%202010%20163.jpg)
Source: http://www.pixiedust.be (http://www.pixiedust.be"%20onclick="window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

Wow, the hotel looks really bad on the outside. Hopefully it gets a treatment soon. This weekend I stayed in another Vienna International hotel and I realized again, that Disney is so overprized and the quality so bad. If the VI hotels at DLRP are as great, nice, modern and clean as the one we stayed last weekend, it will definately our first choice for our next DLRP trip.

I have to admit that the new Route 66 wall paper in the shop doesn't look bad. I think it fits very well, because there are no characters.

That's pretty awful, the outside that is! If they are going to start marketing the new Cars themed Santa Fe then you'd think painting the walls would be one of the things on their list. Unless they plan on just showing photos of the interior and a close-up of the big poster.

Woah the outside is back and in need of some paint of some sort.

Hope its sorted by the time I go in Feb.

That wallpaper border in the shop, is that new? I will admit I actually like that... Doesn't exactly make up for all the neglect and the unimaginative framed art, though.

I like the new border too :thumbs:  

Maybe they're starting with the smaller things that don't take that long to do. Easy for housekeeping to change bedspreads, and pics don't take long either...

But break out the pain buckets and rollers asap!  [-o<

I like the general color of the hotel, it's noce and "warm", but I never understood the buildings way to the right when you enter that are black and so on... And they could lose the volcano or whatever that thing is...

I think this hotel has always suffered because of its odd design elements , I bet most guests don't realise the banner over the entrance is meant to be a drive in movie screen , with the car park where people would drive in to watch it ! It is the odd bits of design like this that have made it unappealing .I would rather see a beautifully landscaped stream running in the grounds than the guttering effect on the building in the trail of water ! All the other hotels themes are easily understood , but I was so disappointed when I first saw the Santa Fe as it has hardly any relevance to the area it represents in the USA. But I don't think the Cars theming is the way to go , it seems like a real dumbing down , as everyone says a quick fix , they should stick to the basics of quality rather than changing a bedspread and a few pictures !! Just too many  toons around , the other hotels are great without it so why this one ?

Quote from: "pussinboots"That wallpaper border in the shop, is that new?

I didn't think it was either, but yes:

(//http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9376/4874087.jpg)

Very dull pictures in those frames, so lazy. Why don't they take a look through the "Art of Cars" book? There's SO much great artwork in there from the production of the film that would be so much richer and more evocative (and more artistic, and less obviously tied to the film) than these publicity art printouts. The Comic Sans on the arcade notice sums it up. I'm no font snob, but Disney should never use Comic Sans.

This is looking like a case of "where can we stick Cars stuff next" rather than some definite, designed re-theming.

Quote from: "pussinboots"That wallpaper border in the shop, is that new? I will admit I actually like that... Doesn't exactly make up for all the neglect and the unimaginative framed art, though.

I like that border too, it looks too pristine to have been there a while and look closely not a Pixar in sight, Thats the theme the Santa Fe should be having all round, that and a coat of paint

Quote from: "Timbo"I think this hotel has always suffered because of its odd design elements , I bet most guests don't realise the banner over the entrance is meant to be a drive in movie screen , with the car park where people would drive in to watch it !?

Nope I have stayed there 4 times and never realised that at all.

I am not keen on the cars theme at all really, its not one of my fav movies either but probably the most fittng with the original Santa Fe theme (if they had to link a movie to it). Very pointless putting money into all these things and letting the standards of the hotel itself go down the shoot! :roll:  :roll:  That paintwork outside is completely awful, not something you expect from a reputable company that is meant to be top quality like Disney.

Are you guys not missing th point that that this is MEANT to look like a Mexican Pueblo made of adobe buildings in the middle of the desert?

No one would suggest polishing the pick-up truck because it looks a bit rusty...

Quote from: "Magic M"Are you guys not missing th point that that this is MEANT to look like a Mexican Pueblo made of adobe buildings in the middle of the desert?

No one would suggest polishing the pick-up truck because it looks a bit rusty...

Point taken, however it hasnt always looked like this, if it was meant to look rundown because of wind and desert heat fine, they could have done that in the first place but they didnt. This is still a decent hotel and you dont expect to find peeling paint.

Quote from: "Magic M"Are you guys not missing th point that that this is MEANT to look like a Mexican Pueblo made of adobe buildings in the middle of the desert?

No one would suggest polishing the pick-up truck because it looks a bit rusty...

Er.... Not quite true. It's a stylised version of that. Hence the guttering "river" etc etc. Also the clinical edges and general lack of any real theming. If they we going to use your reasoning, then the thumbing would need to be more literal in the Vein of areas in frontier land.

That upkeep is nothing more than poor show! Awful and not what you should accept from Disney

Quote from: "Magic M"Are you guys not missing th point that that this is MEANT to look like a Mexican Pueblo made of adobe buildings in the middle of the desert?

No one would suggest polishing the pick-up truck because it looks a bit rusty...

The problem is that it looks nothing like the New Mexican Pueblo buildings it is meant to represent , if it had originally been designed to look just like a Pueblo village it would have worked ! However it looks like an orange  concrete housing estate , with some strange additions to link it to the Southwest USA . Even real Pueblo buildings don't look as neglected !!

Them pics look so cheap and tacky! Oh Disney what are you doing!

Quote from: "Martyn"Them pics look so cheap and tacky! Oh Disney what are you doing!

agree I stayed at Santa Fé about 3 years ago and liked it how it was perhaps could of done with some tuch ups but think its all ruined now by "cars"

Unless of course theyre going to rename it Hotel Radiator Springs

On our last visit to the Resort 2 weeks ago we took a walk around all the hotels one evening, the general feeling of Santa Fe from the people in our group who hadn't been before was that it felt like 'the ghetto of Disneyland', as if you had fantastic themes in the other hotels and when you get to Santa Fe it's like a run down Center Parcs lodgement. I actually agreed with them, the whole place feels very un-Disney, so with Cars going in I'm hoping that there'll be some sprucing up outside, and maybe making the theme a little more coherant (even if that means putting in some duplicate statues where the more vauge UFO/Volcano currently are) and giving it a good lick of paint.

I like the Hotel, however it is one I would definately never stay in unless every other hotel (and the non-Disney ones) were totally booked up. There's something which feels dirty about it, and I don't enjoy my stay there. It's definately not distance from parks, I love Cheyenne with a passion and would stay there like a shot, I think it just feels to me as if Santa Fe was never finished properly in the first place.

It's not Disney, and maybe Cars will give it some investment to make it a bit more Disney.

hm... i think the re themeing, may work to draw in new guests... previously i would never have chosen to stay there, its not a hotel that has ever been appealing to me... but now that that god awful picture of clint eastwood (is that who it was... i never knew :oops: ) is gone and it looks a little more like a disney hotel... it does look slightly more appealing... maybe if it wasnt as far away from the parks... i might have given it a chance... but it would take alot of convinving to get me to go any lower than the SL

Quote from: "SwipatronSparks"hm... i think the re themeing, may work to draw in new guests... previously i would never have chosen to stay there, its not a hotel that has ever been appealing to me... but now that that god awful picture of clint eastwood (is that who it was... i never knew :oops: ) is gone and it looks a little more like a disney hotel... it does look slightly more appealing... maybe if it wasnt as far away from the parks... i might have given it a chance... but it would take alot of convinving to get me to go any lower than the SL

The "Clint Eastwood " movie screen was originally left blank , and guests were supposed to let their imagination envisage the image on the screen .......!!!  as we know that idea didn't last very long. Just another example of the bizarre theming  in this hotel by the architect ,as said it is the only hotel where the design doesn't work , all the others you "get " instantly !

They've noticed that TSPL is a bit of an eye sore, so you'd think that they'd notice the state of the exterior here.... Same with the Newport Bay really, its embarresing.

Quote from: "Anthony"The Comic Sans on the arcade notice sums it up. I'm no font snob, but Disney should never use Comic Sans.

Nothing wrong with being a font snob ;)

As for Comic Sans, I'd go as far as saying nobody should ever use it, let alone Disney.

Quote from: "PirateSteve"As for Comic Sans, I'd go as far as saying nobody should ever use it, let alone Disney.

Even the BBC reported this the other day: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11582548 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11582548%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

The comments saying it makes things look like a school or parish newsletter are spot on. Disney Hotels should have signs and notices which don't look like they came out of a cheap printer in the back office.

So onboard on the refurb/ repaint at Santa Fe, it needs to be done.

If I remember correctly the WDW Coronado Springs resort's Pepper Market (Breakfast place) has some signs (opening times and such) that are comic sans as well. So for the Mexico theme its matched with its Floridian theme brother.

Even though the comic sans is tacky and it would be great if they had custom signs that would be better themed every chance would cost a lot of money (opening times, breakfast times, names, rules etc). And I would rather see that money to be invested in paint for the exterior.

Quote from: "Anthony"

Quote from: "PirateSteve"As for Comic Sans, I'd go as far as saying nobody should ever use it, let alone Disney.

Even the BBC reported this the other day: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11582548 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11582548%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

The comments saying it makes things look like a school or parish newsletter are spot on. Disney Hotels should have signs and notices which don't look like they came out of a cheap printer in the back office.

It looks so unprofessional if someone uses the Comic Sans font. And it looks even worse when Disney uses it. In my opinion the Walt Disney font looks also bad when used by Disney for something else instead for the company logo of for Disneyland.

Quote from: "sebassah"So onboard on the refurb/ repaint at Santa Fe, it needs to be done.

If I remember correctly the WDW Coronado Springs resort's Pepper Market (Breakfast place) has some signs (opening times and such) that are comic sans as well. So for the Mexico theme its matched with its Floridian theme brother.

Even though the comic sans is tacky and it would be great if they had custom signs that would be better themed every chance would cost a lot of money (opening times, breakfast times, names, rules etc). And I would rather see that money to be invested in paint for the exterior.

Of course it would be more expensive to use custom signs, but that's what Disney always did. Are the opening time, breakfast times, etc printouts? Then it is even easier to use another font that looks more classy, for example Disney could use the Arial font like they are doing with the TWDC logo.

Quote from: "Magic M"Are you guys not missing th point that that this is MEANT to look like a Mexican Pueblo made of adobe buildings in the middle of the desert?

No one would suggest polishing the pick-up truck because it looks a bit rusty...

I understand what you mean but there is a difference in a desired look and theme and just neglect. No one wants to see a hotel looking run down, no matter what the theme really.

weve just come back from a quick 2 day trip and we spent a night in the santa fe, and we were really impressed. We were in block 50 which is the black and white block which looks like it had been painted. The new flat screen TV was lovely and the cars bedspread and the cars picture were lovely. I loved the fact that there was a fairy story channel where you could listen to 4 disney stories, which is great if you want the kids 'read' to in the evening. I must say it was the best I have seen the Santa Fe in a long time. The cast members seemed nicer too. All in all a big thumbs up from us this time. Im going to request the room next time ( 218 ) as its lovely as there are only 4 rooms on that floor so you are unlikely to have noisy neighbours and there is no chance of people running up the corridors as there isnt one :-)

We stayed in building 50 in December 2006 and back then it was a wonderful room. I think they had just refurbished it, because everything looked new. It was the nicest room we ever had at DLRP, even a lot better than Sequoia Lodge.

This is new piece of concept art for Walt Disney World's Art of Animation Resort (//http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2010/12/new-images-disneys-art-of-animation-resort/).

(//http://parksandresorts.wdpromedia.com/media/disneyparks/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/aoa002930LARGE.jpg)

It's a bit like what could happen if DLP went really out of control rethemeing Hotel Santa Fe. But they probably won't.

I'm a bit sceptical about this new resort. I don't get it why Disney doesn't use the Pop Century theme for this resort, like it was supposed to.

I don't think that the Santa Fe will receive such a makeover. That would be too much.

Those flat backdrops are bound to look unspeakably cheap. I think I prefer the Tate-Modern-Postmodernism-Section feel of the other All-Star resorts.

I took a walk around all the hotels yesterday. To say I was unimpressed with the Santa Fe is an understatement! How is this mess in a Disney resort?!

What, the new look? Or the grotty old look?

The entire hotel in General is just shabby.
I did notice some metal lightning bolts engraved into the floors of the main building, are they new?

Hi all

Does anyone know how many of the rooms have already been updated?  I'm going at the end of January and wondering how far on the refurb is likely to be by then...?

Tia

Helly   :D

We had a wonder around the Santa Fe in January. The exterior to this place is horrible, didn't feel like Disney at all, just felt like we were a bright coloured Fomula hotel.

Just wondering if safes have been installed in all rooms yet?

Staying here in October, can't say I'm overly thrilled about it lol.

Safes are in the rooms now.

As per my comment on another thread, according to staff that my wife spoke to on Wednesday evening, the Santa Fe will be renamed "Cars Hotel" from September.

i could be wrong of course but it does sound like a joke to me. Hotel Santa Fe renamed Cars Hotel? We'll see in September. The SL hotel has Some Bambi touches in it now apparently, that could become hotel Bambi if we used the same logic. Disney would have to do some major re-themeing at the Hotel Santa Fe to call it the Cars hotel in my opinion.

I really hope it is a joke. Cars Hotel sounds just cheap and so un-Disney. They also added Bambi to the Sequoia Lodge and this hotle will also not renamed "Bambi Hotel".

I have already said it, but I'm going to repeat it. All hotels are themed to a region in the USA and are named after that places. It would ruin the continuity. So hopefully it is really just a joke and Disney will stick with Santa Fe.

Quote from: "ed-uk"i could be wrong of course but it does sound like a joke to me. Hotel Santa Fe renamed Cars Hotel? We'll see in September. The SL hotel has Some Bambi touches in it now apparently, that could become hotel Bambi if we used the same logic. Disney would have to do some manger re-themeing at the Hotel Santa Fe to call it the Cars hotel in my opinion.

It seems we had the same thoughts. :)

Cars Hotel sounds like a posh name for a garage to me.

Maybe the sign that this was written on was just misread. If it said something like: "We're turning the Santa Fe into a Cars' Hotel" and didn't necessarily mean "We are renaming it to 'Cars Hotel.' "

Quote from: "Meph"Maybe the sign that this was written on was just misread. If it said something like: "We're turning the Santa Fe into a Cars' Hotel" and didn't necessarily mean "We are renaming it to 'Cars Hotel.' "

I am staying their next week so will keep an eye out for any such signs

Disney are definitely introducing their characters into some of their hotels.

Perhaps it will be a "Cars" hotel, but that won't be the actual name. Surely they'd go with "Radiator Springs" or something along those lines? I'm assuming it won't be the "Cosy Cone", as that would require quite a major re-modeling....

I can see that a lot of people don't like the idea, but consider all the little boys who would be over-joyed to get a Cars hotel. I have one of them myself!

Dutch Brit - Disney used to be more than about what kids wanted. Far more. Then Iger took over the damn company and turned it into a kiddy land.

Quote from: "DutchBrit"Perhaps it will be a "Cars" hotel, but that won't be the actual name. Surely they'd go with "Radiator Springs" or something along those lines? I'm assuming it won't be the "Cosy Cone", as that would require quite a major re-modeling....

I can see that a lot of people don't like the idea, but consider all the little boys who would be over-joyed to get a Cars hotel. I have one of them myself!

I see what you mean, but little boys and girls aren't the only guests to DLRP. It's bad enough that parents look at us, because we are queuing for Dumbo or the Tea Cups. Disneyland isn't just for kids, it should be for all ages. Unfortunately Disney is focusing too much on under 10 year olds.

There are chatacters all over the resort, so there is really no need to change the hotels as well.

Quotesee what you mean, but little boys and girls aren't the only guests to DLRP

Well, of course not, but they do make up a sizable chuck of the market, and were always intended to, no? The lower end hotels are the ones that are most likely to be used by families and therefore it makes marketing sense to make them attractive to children ways that the cheaper off-site motels can't offer. And that means using the Disney assets, which are the films and characters.

And frankly, although it isn't all about the films, anyone going to Disneyland should have a a pretty high tolerance level for the Disney characters. Although I can see space for having other hotels with a more "grown-up"vibe. The HNY would seem a prime candidate for that.

Two points, Disneyland was always designed to be a place for all ages, and Walt even talked about the importance of not talking down to kids.

Secondly, from when Disneyland opened up in 1955 until Splash Mountain opened in 1989, the toon based attractions and theming were relegated to Fantasyland only, that was 34 years!  I don't mind the odd meet and greet, but when toons come at the expense of real entertainment, theming, dining or hotels, it makes my blood boil. Disneyland never became famous because of the toons in it, it was because of the attention to detail and the impact it had on people when visiting.

I doubt Khrushev would have gotten into such a huff for not visiting Disneyland today, but back in the 60's, it caused a real diplomatic issue. Or the fact Sweden review their whole approach to waste management based on the hyacinth project in WDW. These things would never happen with the low ball tooning. But most folks around here seem really ignorant of what Disney used to be and what they used to stand for.

If little Alfie or Brittany are happy, I suppose that's all that matters these days.

Just to clarify - there were no notices up about the name change.
My wife was talking to staff while collecting our bags and they asked if we'd been before.
They also asked my son if he'd seen the big new Cars picture over the entrance.
Also pointed out that the rooms are now themed and that there will be a lot more changes over the coming months, and that the hotel will be renamed in September.

QuoteDisneyland was always designed to be a place for all ages, and Walt even talked about the importance of not talking down to kids.

Uh-huh. But he still wanted to attract them and he wanted to sell them stuff. The popularity of the Cars merchandise shows it sells. Therefore if you are running a company, and particularly if you are running a company that has a lot of debt, you use what you can. Familes with young kids are a big target for the lower-end hotels - they have to be.

In marketing terms, you want the fresh blood. The people who have never visited, the people who think it's too expensive, the parents who aren't really into theme parks but who want to treat their children. In marketing terms, repeat adult visitors are a bonus, but actually they've already made their money from you! You've already done your allocation. There is a correct term, which has slipped my mind, but figuratively you are like the old car that is still going, but which can't depreciate any more. So they keep you on the road until you fall apart, but they don't have to spend money on you anymore....

Even if you vow to never visit Disney again, they won't make a loss from you.

But the reason I went have been to Disneyland 100's of times, WDW for 5 weeks of my life, and will shortly going to DLP for the 56th time is not because of toons. A lot of adults don't want to go to DLP because they think it will all be toons and thrills. I have met countless families that "went for the kids", but because there was more on offer, they fell in love and have been back many times because of it. If it was all toons and thrills, I could guarantee that would change.

Disney have to think in the long term, they always used to. Hell, you can get toons at Blackpool, Drayton Manor, and even Port Aventura. Aiming at toons is really narrowing their market reach and customer retention.

If you want to talk business and marketing, I am gain. I used to run a department for a multinational earlier in my career. First rule, it is cheaper to keep clients than win new ones, and every successful business does both, putting 80% of their efforts in retention.

We honeymooned in WDW, and when we went, it was the honeymoon capital of the world. The way Disney runs their business today, there is no way in hell I would ever contemplate a honeymoon with the mouse except a Disney Cruise.

I don't have a problem with the Cars touches, after all the hotel Santa Fe is ment to be on route 66 so I can see how Cars could fit into that. All the Disney hotels look beautiful except the Santa Fe, so maybe introducing some new touches into it would be a good idea, some fans think the Santa Fe looks rather souless from the exterior. Of all the hotels at DLP it is the least successful in this regard. In the 1960's Disney didn't own any hotels, he couldn't afford one. And he never built a theme park in a foreign country, so maybe keeping Brittany happy counts for something in 2011.

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"But the reason I went have been to Disneyland 100's of times, WDW for 5 weeks of my life, and will shortly going to DLP for the 56th time is not because of toons .

So they have you. Have made their money from you. Now they want to attract the other audience who aren't you.

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"A lot of adults don't want to go to DLP because they think it will all be toons and thrills. I have met countless families that "went for the kids", but because there was more on offer, they fell in love and have been back many times because of it .

If adults don't like cartoons at all, then I would suggest Disneyland is simply not the place for them anyway. And in your quote, you have the exact marketting strategy - get the people who come for the kids in and trust you can get them back a few times as well. That is "thinking long term".

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"We honeymooned in WDW, and when we went, it was the honeymoon capital of the world. The way Disney runs their business today, there is no way in hell I would ever contemplate a honeymoon with the mouse except a Disney Cruise.

Focus, isn't it? I think Florida can offer more as an adult destination. I don't think that is necessarily true of Disneyland Paris.

I do think Disneyland Paris should be a destination for adult also, and I say that as someone who goes without chidren. i don't have trouble with the characters I like to see them, but I don't rush to them. The Santa Fe is a budget family hotel, and I think the Cars theme done well could be a draw for Disney. But i wouldn't like to see the rooms done out like a childs bedroom.

Quote from: "DutchBrit"Focus, isn't it? I think Florida can offer more as an adult destination. I don't think that is necessarily true of Disneyland Paris.

It used to be. When I was courting my wife, there was not the proliferation of toons everywhere, the Village had 4 live music venues and a night club, all the dining options were good quality with no McD's or Cafe Mickey to be found.

It was even better in 1992 when it first opened. The Hotel NY had a Jazz Club, there was live music at all the hotels. And altogether, DLP was a much more enjoyable experience, with live music on Main Street, discoveryland, Frontierland, Adventureland and jugglers and fire breathers in Fantasyland. There were craftsman doing wood carving, indian jewelry, Middle Eastern weaving. And then there were cancan dancers performing in the Lucky Nugget. Discoveryland had a fantastic dance show in the day, and was a disco at night.

DLP was stunning, and was very close to the model in California, where people of all ages enjoy the parks. I remember growing up in California, we would often watch live bands or go dancing to the big band on the hub as a kid (like Tivoli Gardens).

It was never about the toons. they were just a part of the experience, and to be frank, quite a small one. It was a lot easier to defend the place against the nay sayers, and most fell in love when they got there.

Now, it is shilling toons and carnival rides, not bothering with low level maintenance (it is rediculous that they have to replace the pirate ship), and some people, those that will probably have a 7 year shelf life, are lapping it up, but it will hurt the place long term. Kids will outgrow it, elderly will probably not bother unless they have the grand kids with them. This is a very different model than what made Disney parks a success in the first place.

If DL had opened as a toon park in 1955, I doubt WDW would have ever been built, let alone Tokyo, DLP and HKDL. And look, HKDL is very toon focused, and as a result it has really struggled. But there is a lot of anticipation on HK boards for the real Disney style attractions for when Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point open. There has to be a reason for that.

HKDL wasn't that Toon focused when it opened though was it? The park struggled because it didn't have many rides. It's very small.

It was very toon focused - my friends in WDI and TDO admitted to me they opened light, partially because of the politics with the Chinese, but also because they thought people would flock to the characters.

Opening Day:

Main Street - no real attractions other than the parades, the train and some vehicles
Adventureland - Lion King Show, Tarzan Tree House,  Jungle Cruise - all the shops and restaurants were themed to Tarzan or Jungle Book.
Fantasyland - the usual spinners, Winnie the Pooh, and toon themed restaurants and shops (though in FL this is understandable)
Tomorrowland - Space Mountain, Stitch Live and Buzz.

Since they have added Mickey's House, Animation Academy, Turtle Talk, Autopia, Rocket Splash Park, It's a Small World including the toons.

Well, sounds like a very kiddy/toony park to me. But at Halloween, they have scare mazes and more mature offerings including an awesome Halloween Parade - this is their busiest time of year.

And TSPL is getting much maligned by HK fans, whereas they are excited about the more traditional (e.g. original and themed) areas currently in development.

Although a different market, I think this speaks volumes. The most popular attractions at DL, WDW, DLP and HKDL have nothing to do with toons. And although Honey Hunt and Monsters Inc Hide and Go Seek in TDL do, they are very immersive and both world innovative attractions.

Surely this is a huge amount of evidence about what works in Disney park design.

There were Disney folk claiming the meet and greet gardens at HKDL would be the biggest attraction. Thankfully they were wrong.

Quote from: "davewasbaloo"It was even better in 1992 when it first opened. The Hotel NY had a Jazz Club, there was live music at all the hotels. And altogether, DLP was a much more enjoyable experience, with live music on Main Street, discoveryland, Frontierland, Adventureland and jugglers and fire breathers in Fantasyland. There were craftsman doing wood carving, indian jewelry, Middle Eastern weaving. And then there were cancan dancers performing in the Lucky Nugget. Discoveryland had a fantastic dance show in the day, and was a disco at night.

Then the park should have been an instant success story if that is what the core european market wanted and the debt should have been a thing that had been sorted out years ago. But it wasn't.

There is no getting away from the fact that Disney is a company based on animated films. That's it's hook. They could try to attract the people who don't like animations, but why would they? That's a far harder market to crack and is always going to be a small target. You don't have to attract the people who love all things Disney - they will come anyway. So the one's you concentrate your efforts on are the ones that can take Disney or leave it alone. The adults who would not come apart from the fact that they have children and their will-power and resistance have been thus sledge-hammered.

I'd also say that most of the people who go hundreds of times are quite unlikely to object to a bit of character theming about the place. In fact, you'd pretty much expect it to be all over their homes and clothes and possessions anyway, so a picture or two on the hotel walls and themed bedding is hardly going to be considered intrusive.

I'd love there to be a Walt Disney Experience like there was at WDW when I went in 2006 with all the "Walt memoribillia" and story of his life for the adults that are interested in the history of Walt Disney - would probably appeal to the older kids too!

Quote from: "DutchBrit"Then the park should have been an instant success story if that is what the core european market wanted and the debt should have been a thing that had been sorted out years ago. But it wasn't.

Even if Disney would have added toons over toons in 1992, DLRP still wouldn't have been a success.
Since you know a lot about marketing and business, I'm sure you know that when DLRP opened, a recession hit Europe. The next problem was that Disney used the WDW numbers to calculate the visitors and so they opened too many hotel rooms. DLRP with one park opened with 7 hotels, while WDW with 3 parks had 10 or so at that time. You should read James B. Stewarts "Disney War". It describes very well why DLRP became a failure. According to the book Disney although thought that the former Soviet countries would also bring some people to the resort.

And according to Tim Delaney, the Imagineer who created Discoveryland and SM, the lenders asked for more rides like SM, because that attraction was a change in DLRP's history. After SM opened DLRP made for the first time money. A fantastic ride, not designed around a Disney animated movie, was the reason that DLRP had record attendance in 1995. After TOT opened DLRP had another record year, and I'm sure TOT had at least an impact on that. So two great attractions not based on toons were the biggest hits for DLRP since 1992. So I'm sure that Europe just doesn't want to see toons everywhere. Europeans want to see high quality rides.

Quote from: "DutchBrit"Then the park should have been an instant success story if that is what the core european market wanted and the debt should have been a thing that had been sorted out years ago. But it wasn't.

It was a huge success, in terms of attendance they met their forecasts. It was the sales and hotel utilisation that was low. The loans were incredible, and we were going through a recession at the time. With it having just opened, they were not offering 40% off deals like they are in this recession.

Eisner's anaylsis post opening showed that they opened with too many hotels initially, and this then tempered the model when HKDL opened with two. As a stand alone park, DLP was a success.

I do hope that they aren't renaming the hotel. However, if they are going down that route, could they not rename it "Disney Pixar's Cars Presents Hotel Santa Fe," or similar?

Quote from: "Adam"I do hope that they aren't renaming the hotel. However, if they are going down that route, could they not rename it "Disney Pixar's Cars Presents Hotel Santa Fe," or similar?

What a great idea! :thumbs:

Quote from: "aliscrapper"

Quote from: "Adam"I do hope that they aren't renaming the hotel. However, if they are going down that route, could they not rename it "Disney Pixar's Cars Presents Hotel Santa Fe," or similar?

What a great idea! :thumbs:

Umm, not exactly snappy though, is it?

If it had to be renamed (and really, it doesn't) then Disney's Radiator Springs Hotel, Disney's Hotel Radiator Springs or similar would be the best option. Not too offensively heavy on the character branding; conveys the same sense of place as "Sequoia Lodge" without being as "Hotel New York" obvious. People who know and like Cars would recognise it instantly, people who don't care about Lighting McQueen wouldn't be immediately put off.

I'd be incredibly surprised if it did change, though.

I cannot see for a minute that they would re name the hotel for two reasons....

Firstly it is not in keeping with they way they run/name hotels world wide. Even the Fab Five dont have a hotel, so would be kind of out of the blue.

Secondly, if they were to rename, surely the refurb etc would have to be so much more in-depth to even begin to warrant neming the hotel anything to do with the movie?

It would really cheapen both the hotel and movie association if they did. However this is DLRP....

I highly doubt they are going to rename the place. But the re-theme.. and touch up is completely necessary.

Actually, now that I've seen the bed covers and the paintings in the rooms, I think that the theming is a bit excessive. I'd probably get tired of Cars if I stayed there for a few days. :P

Has anyone who has been recently seen/heard anything more on this?

Quote from: "Meph"Actually, now that I've seen the bed covers and the paintings in the rooms, I think that the theming is a bit excessive. I'd probably get tired of Cars if I stayed there for a few days. :P

I personally loved the bed covers with the Route 66 logo down the side - was tempted to "borrow" one. ;)

As someone who has actually travelled Route 66 and been to Santa Fe, I think the Cars theme goes perfectly with the Santa Fe.  I didn't find the new theming overbearing but just right.

Hel all, i will be staying at the santa fe hotel when i go in August 2011 and i am really looking forward to seeing the new cars theme, I am not a big fan of the film cars but i prefer it to seeing a huge bilboard with a cowboy on it. i know and understand people really like that bilboard but i just felt it had no disney magic.
thanks
ben xx

In October 2011 when i stay at Santa Fe for the 2nd time i personally think the 'cars' theme goes very well at this hotel, and my 3 children will love it, i think all the hotels should have a theme from one or two popular disney movies, it would certainly make the hotels more appealing to children. I cant wait to see if things have changed there  :D

Santa Fe has always been a 'budget' hotel, we stay there as with 5 of us we cannot afford to stay in one of the bigger hotels, but if it were myself and hubby going without kids we could afford to stay in a better hotel, so generally i think santa fe is a family hotel more than just adults staying there, so making it more child friendly themed is a good thing.  Yes the hotel being painted etc is important but we barely spend any time in the hotel/rooms, only to sleep, so we barely notice the hotel anyway, you dont go there to stay all day in a hotel, its whats going on at disney thats important.  In a recession when every company is desperate for more business then i can see why this year they are adding themes to the hotels to give them a new lease of life and more inviting again.

I think this is a 'wait and see' situation. The cars idea may have not been the best path to follow, but Santa fe was in desperate need of work. I know it's the cheapest, but it is definitely the cheapest looking and feeling too. Paint work old and faded, rivers that used to run the grounds all dried up. The idea is nice, but I think this hotel is going to need a lot more to raise itself to the old Disney standards. However, this cars themeing may prove to be a nice uplift for the hotel. We shall see...

I have just returned from Santa Fe, and the hotel has definitely been "McQueened".  The bedding has been replaced with Cars theme, and Clint has been ripped down and replaced by Lightning McQueen.  Maybe the next step will be to change the rides in the play area to Cars, as many small children will expect more than just photos and bedding.

Thank goodness Clint has gone, that made the hotel look really old fashioned and unkept. Glad its having a makeover before we go  :D At least it will seem a slightly different hotel than when we went in 1993.

Does anyone have a link to the updates?  :)  I think I have seen them but I have lost them!

Hello All,
I stayed at the Santa Fe back in May and I loved the theme. But I thought as it was a theme there was not much of it and for the one Cars themeing was the duvets on the beds and the billboard out the front. I did not mind because I love Cars ... So it is a bit self explantiary :D
<3 Laura  :cheshire_bounce:

so are there Cars on the bedding?! Or there are not sorry confused myself?!

yes there are, plus Cars prints on the wall in the bedrooms, and the Cars stars pictures in the main reception building, plus lightning bolts in the flooring at reception (and the billboard of course).

Elaine

oooooohhhhh, my son would LOVE that!! I don't really like the Santa Fe I LOVE the Cheyenne and SL and DLH but I can never afford DLH so its C or SL but omg he would absolutely adore that!! Might have to consider it is it in EVERY room or is it like random choice because just saw the beginning of the thread and it looks plain in that room with normal covers?!

they are all refurbed in every room at the Santa Fe now, have been since earlier this year.

Elaine

We went last March, and loved the refurb and Cars theme, it was done very subtly in the rooms and still fitted with the colour scheme of the hotel, it is far from a brash gauche character makeover. The little touches to look at around the hotel were very cool for fans of the movie, and the large billboard is a lot more "cozy" and friendly for kids to come home to than a large face of a grumpy looking old man they don't recognise! (sorry Clint fans)

Personally, we were desperately tempted (but didn't because we're moral people!) to nick one of the bed covers, they were so cool. They should sell them in the shop  [-o<

Sounds fab, glad they have refurbished the hotel as it needed it, cant wait to go next week now :)

@InsideDLParis posted some information on Twitter today!

"The long awaited refurbishment of Hotel Santa Fé started slowly last October, Now exterior tests can be seen!"
(//http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/424643_10150524413656841_189836051840_9132773_458053694_n.jpg)

"Here's a concept art for the rethemed Disney's Hotel Santa Fé!"
(//https://p.twimg.com/AlSmrODCMAASCyX.jpg:large)

"Disney's Hotel Santa Fé was originally inspired by many icons of the American desert. But this major renewal centres on just one.. Route 66! Dark brown silhouettes of 'Cars' characters will decorate the building tops which will be back-lit a night. All rooms will be refurbished and will get a new automotive inspired look, for example 'bucket seat' chairs and 'traffic cone' lamps. Lightning McQueen, Sally, Mater and Luigi will symbolise the different hotel areas. When will this all be finished? Summer 2013!"

How is that concept art for a Cars themed Santa Fe? I can't see any Cars/Route 66 elements in it.

I think those are Lightening McQueen silhouettes on the border, bit 'kids bedroom' for my taste. Traffic cone lamps sound like a bit of fun though.

I think the buildings at the Santa Fe would look a lot more attractive if they were surrounded by more greenery, such as palm trees, lush ferns and bamboo. It's just all too stark and bare at the moment.

I agree it is a bit "kids bedroom", but compared to Disney's All-Star Resorts in Florida, it's amazingly tasteful :-)

I don't think you get palm trees, lush ferns and bamboo in Mexico! If they did plant a lot of greenery, imagine the howls of complaint from purists! I just stayed at the Santa Fe for the first time and I was impressed! I think the new cars theming mentioned would be fun and as to it being a bit kids bedroom, well it is Disney!

If you want grennery - there is a cactus in a glass tank! But you have to know where to look... ;o)

The concept image doesn't look too bad (though probably just because for once it looks like a freshly-painted, well kept hotel rather than a load of damp concrete), but I don't think these silhouettes really work. Are we meant to recognise individual characters? They're all cars, they're all car-shaped.

Putting a border along the top is also the exact same thing they tried with Disney Village, and it didn't work there. It's the kind of lazy, quick thing you'd do in your own home (in the '90s perhaps!) to freshen up a room, not something to apply to a whole hotel. Disappointing more thought or imagination hasn't been put into this.

They should have stuck to making the rooms as wonderfully kitsch as possible and then worked on re-landscaping the area outside. I personally think the hotel would be far better if they removed the car park from the middle of it. The "motel" idea was poor, it just makes the place look dirty and modern vehicles spoil the theme. Landscape that area over with rock formations and plants, a crumbled-up (pedestrianised!) Route 66 stretching along the middle. And maybe incorporate a new kids playground of some sort.

(//http://imgdash.com/aeb7bc67.jpg)

To me personally - I dont really care how Sante Fe looks. I dont care if they spend thousands rethemeing it or decide a few touches here and there will suffice. Sante Fe will always be the 'how cheaply can we stay at DLP' option.

If the room's clean, the croissants are available in La Cantina for breakfast, and the free shuttlebus runs at regular intervals to and from the park, then they can add tumbleweeds, Cactus plants, Cars posters or whatever they want.

I think the best way to re-theme the Hotel Santa Fe would be to drop a bomb on it. :-) Start over, do something fresh. It's really the most unattractive unappealing hotel I've ever seen in my life. I don't think anyone should actually be paying to stay there, rather, Disney should be paying you!  :D

That said, I do like the idea of a Pixar Cars makeover, but if they're going to do it, they have to do it properly, and make the place really look like Radiator Springs, just like Disney have almost finished building out in California. Of course, that would be hugely expensive:

(//http://www.miceshots.com/is.php?i=4600&img=IMG_1037.jpg)

The French seem to dream about Canada a lot, the same way we Brits dream about America. So how about a Canadian themed hotel?

I've stayed at the hotel Santa Fe twice, it's not my favourite Disney hotel and it wouldn't be my first choice, but it's a good hotel in my experience. It's unique, I've never stayed in a hotel like it before. The only problem for me is that it's ment to be a hotel set along side route 66 in the desert, and in the harsh winters of northern Europe it doesn't fit so well. It's ment to look like a pueblo village.

Quote from: "Pete's Dragon"If the room's clean, the croissants are available in La Cantina for breakfast, and the free shuttlebus runs at regular intervals to and from the park, then they can add tumbleweeds, Cactus plants, Cars posters or whatever they want.

Well at least it's not the All Star Resorts at WDW! *shudders*

Quote from: "Anthony"They should have stuck to making the rooms as wonderfully kitsch as possible and then worked on re-landscaping the area outside. I personally think the hotel would be far better if they removed the car park from the middle of it. The "motel" idea was poor, it just makes the place look dirty and modern vehicles spoil the theme. Landscape that area over with rock formations and plants, a crumbled-up (pedestrianised!) Route 66 stretching along the middle. And maybe incorporate a new kids playground of some sort.

(//http://imgdash.com/aeb7bc67.jpg)

I really like your ideas. Removing the car park in the middle and landscaping the area would make the place nicer. I totally agree. Great rock formations would really look nice there  :D

User "Mouetto" from DisneyCentralPlaza has posted pictures of the interior of buildings already well underway. It seems it's not just a quick touch-up for the halls/rooms but completely re-done! Have a look below:

This hall's carpet has been uplifted:
(//http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/415/p1110343j.jpg)

This room has been completely gutted:
(//http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1760/p1110346.jpg)

This looks promising  :D

Oh wow!  Thanks for posting 15Magical Years!  We're staying there in June - can't wait to see what they've done to the Santa Fe!!

As I've now read through the whole thread (which took some time ;) ), here's my opinion on that:

First of all, I didn't like the Santa Fe, not in its former state, and I think even less with a Car update. As the cheapest hotel it will of course attract more visitors than, for example, Hotel Cheyenne. The fact that Santa Fe is really ugly and without any special Disney atmosphere is thus really bad for Disney's reputation, because many guests visiting Disnelyand for the first time and staying at Santa Fe probably won't have the best memories. Ugly concrete buildings cannot be the standard of Disneyland. So I agree that something has to be done. I definitely see the connection between Cars and Santa Fe and if you would only consider the theme, Cars would fit well into this "hotel". But I think the Disney hotels are not a place to house toons or even places dedicated to toons. The hotels have always been a perfectly themed (well, except Santa Fe ;) ) antipole compared with the overwhelming impressions of the day (already including loads of toons). Of course, Disneyland will consist of toons to some amount, but they cannot be everything. I really dislike the recent development of toons not only getting every new, but also taking over already established places inside the whole Resort. But well, this thread is not about this overall-development, so lets come back to Santa Fe.

As I said, I don't like this Cars makeover, especially because it seems to be permanent. Characters should be a side product and not the centre of all Disneyland activities. As you said, the Disney company was always about making animated movies - but Disneyland is not a 1:1 copy of the movie making part of the Disney company. For me, Disneyland is the realisation of Walt Disney's dreams. And in his eyes, Disneyland obviously wasn't toon-based.
And yes, many kids might be happy with seeing cars characters, but Disneyland isn't a children only environment. It's for everyone. And I don't see why the interests of long lasting Disneyland fans should be of smaller value than the interests of kids.

And please, don't come with the argument "my kid didn't even know this guy on the billboard, but it knows Lightning McQueen!". Wow. So today, we are not able to make some researches on our own? Only able to consume? As dave wrote:

When I was a kid growing up in Disneyland, it was the Jungle Cruise, PotC, Haunted Mansion, and Tomorrowland that really got me excited, and inspired me to go and read and learn about history, geography and science. Disney has forgotten how to inspire, and the public are becoming more dumb too (not everyone thank goodness).

I think this perfectly describes the current state of Disneyland and its visitors/consumers. It's all about seeing the stuff that is advertised en masse, you don't think on your own anylonger but just get into the worlds you've already seen on TV. Nothing about own imagination.

I didn't know Jules Verne, too. I've read about him because of Disneyland, and loved his books. I've read about Davy Crocket, I've read books of Mark Twain, I've read about Pirates, the Wild West and so on. Just because of Disneyland. Thus, Disneyland inspired me to inform myself about what is being shown there. Withouht Disneyland, I probably wouldn't have touched a book of an author like Mark Twain in my whole life. After reading all that, my admiration for the park even increased. You always want to know more about the themes, the attractions, the backgrounds. But with this recent development, your own imagination is limited to a minimum. Is there any stimulus to get better informed about a toon? I don't think so. Disneyland once stimulated young people to inform themselves about topics they wouldn't have dealt with voluntarily otherwise. Today you are only there to buy cheap merchandise. The sad thing is, at least in my opinion, that parents even fall for this proceeding. How can the children of today be interested in a topic they didn't see on TV, if they don't get the chance to experience something new? Why does everything connected to the real world has to be replaced by fictional characters? Disneyland once told stories and made people think - today it has its part in the growing stultification of people.

This is my own, perhaps a little bit confusing, opinion, so please don't feel personally attacked...Of course I don't think people loving Disney characters are stupid, as I love them myself. Of course I have exaggerated time by time. But mass consuming must not be the standard for Disney. They've always been a special and unique company, but unfortunately they are on the way to a common global player. What would Walt Disney say to this development?

Quote from: "Patrick89"Disneyland once stimulated young people to inform themselves about topics they wouldn't have dealt with voluntarily otherwise. Today you are only there to buy cheap merchandise. The sad thing is, at least in my opinion, that parents even fall for this proceeding. How can the children of today be interested in a topic they didn't see on TV, if they don't get the chance to experience something new? Why does everything connected to the real world has to be replaced by fictional characters? Disneyland once told stories and made people think - today it has its part in the growing stultification of people.

Perhaps the main thing is that I don't expect Disneyland to be developing a sense of adventure or interest in history in my child. To do that I can take him to real historical places where the stories really happened and are not just "theming". The best place to learn about the real world is IN the real world, and my options for that are much wider than they would have been in 1950s America. So what was needed then is not what is needed now.

What I want of Disneyland is Disney-themed fun. That's your unique experince right there. We've got real castles virtually on every corner. But Sleeping Beauty only lives in the Disneyland one.

When I think of Walt Disney I think of animation, film and theme parks. So what is a Disney Resort? To me Disneyland is about fantasy, it's a magic kingdom and when we walk through the gates we leave the real world behind us. I didn't have a local Disneyland theme park to get me interest in history when I was a child, I learnt history from books, TV, films and in school. I should think it's the same for most people. I love the POTC ride but it's pure fantasy, more like being on the set of an MGM musical, just like Main St. USA.  Disney is about entertainment and it's Disney's hotel Santa Fe, not the real thing, I go to America for that. And I know the difference.

I'm not sure how replacing Clint Eastwood with Lightning McQueen is taking away history. The billboard was of a character from a film, and is being replaced, with a character from a film. I recognised the Eastwood poster but always thought it was incredibly out of place in Disneyland so I'm glad to see it gone. So what, now people won't grow up watching Clint Eastwood western films? If that's even true, I'm not sure that's going to affect the education of many people.

Hotel Santa Fe has long been a really bad hotel and even if the awful volcano is still there, at least they can market it, which at the end of the day is what it's all about. Disneyland Paris is a business first and foremost and they need to be able to sell the experience, which they won't be able to do with the old Santa Fe which had a major identity crisis.

The point here I suppose is that yes, Hotel Santa Fe was never the most successfully executed of the hotels, but it had nothing to do with the theme or lack of recognisable characters. We've got Hotel Cheyenne just across the river. Considering there's already Frontierland, you could wonder why they haven't themed it to Woody's Roundup and made it something different. They haven't (yet!) because it's a well-designed, enjoyable place to stay that favours its theme and its guests above the bizarre need to park your car within two metres of your hotel room.

I'd have preferred to see any improvement to Santa Fe come in the form of those landscape works I mentioned, to make it more like the pedestrianised and strongly themed Cheyenne. I don't know if any management have actually walked around Santa Fe in the past 20 years, but it's the most confusing, frustrating, depressing experience known. The whole motel-meets-pueblo idea never quite worked, but it was the pueblo element that worked best and provided the warmth. Imagine the difference if they built a larger car park in front of the movie screen and then banished all cars from beyond that point, landscaping the roads. Transformation complete.

These additions will make the hotel more marketable, but they won't fix its (actually quite minor) problems. It's looking a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut now.

I know what you mean about the cars - when we stayed there in November it did feel like the car parking was first and the accommodation was just added in where they had room.

They obviously see characters as they way forward with the recent news/rumours of theming for all hotels except DLH. But as well as that, it is strange that aren't also implementing a tidy up of the grounds too - or maybe that is to come. The bigger car park out front is a good idea - then replace some of those bays with some nice greenery and a kids playground, and get rid of the volcano and flying saucer.

Here are pictures of the new rooms:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 535&type=1 (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.300534766672639.73454.136595823066535&type=1%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

The car parking at Santa Fe next to your room is a plus for disabled travellers and should be retained. The volcano should go along with the plastic cactus, but not the flying saucer.

The new room designs are nice and subtle again, like the Sequoia. But why did they choose that bed cover and wall banner? They make it look like a child's bedroom. :(

Also, it might be worth reading this:
http://www.designingdisney.com/content/ ... l-santa-fe (http://www.designingdisney.com/content/designing-disney%E2%80%99s-hotel-santa-fe%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

The rooms are an improvement. I'm loving the look of the new bathrooms.

Quote from: "Meph"Also, it might be worth reading this:
http://www.designingdisney.com/content/ ... l-santa-fe (http://www.designingdisney.com/content/designing-disney%E2%80%99s-hotel-santa-fe%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)

I've already read about this background story of Santa Fe, somewhere else. Of course the architect was trying to make the hotel something special. Nevertheless, I think there are too many different aspects to make it comprehensible. I've also wandered through all the trails and I was really admiring all the thoughts the architect made when constructing Sante Fe. But still, even if there was a complex story, I never really liked the hotel, not as much as the other Disney hotels. Maybe it would have been better to focus on less aspects, I don't know. In my opinion the architect had a lot of good ideas, but couldn't realize them in a good outcome.

In my honest opinion, I think these rooms are pretty dire. The beds and room look small and the entrance looks like very cheap 2 star accomodation. The bathrooms do look bright and clean, but why in this day and age do Disney still insist on plastic shower curtains. They are ugly and not particularly hygienic and I would imagine they would need replacing quite frequently - or I hope they would.
I read through the designing disney article and really do feel that it was just the wrong concept for Paris. What might look good in the bright sunlight in America just doesn't look good in Europe, especially in dull, wet conditions. It just ends up looking like concrete block accomodation you would expect to find somewhere like Russia.
I would, time after time, rather stay somewhere like the Dream Castle than the Santa Fe. It's not that much further away. It's clean, comfortable and pretty to look at.
Most people only come here due to it being the cheapest DLP property and because so many companys use it for their package tours.

I've always had a soft spot for old Santa Fe. I suppose that, in order to appreciate the theme, you have to be familiar with and have an affinity for American highway culture. If you can't or don't want to see how accurate some of it is and embrace that rickety motel sign with a sense of humor, then yes, I can imagine how you'd rather be at the Cheyenne where the theme conveniently jumps in your face and announces itself.

I think it's wonderful at night with all that blinking neon. Neon is mid-century America in a nutshell, and like brown paper lunch bags or black Bakelite telephones, the more obsolete it gets, the more you start to appreciate it on the rare instance you encounter it. I think it's very obvious that Mr Predock designed something he knew like the back of his hand. It feels strangely authentic.

But... Slap Pixar all around the place and yes, then suddenly all of that crumbles away and the hotel becomes a worthless bunch of concrete boxes.

(Inside the rooms, that's a different story, of course.)

Quote from: "pussinboots"I suppose that, in order to appreciate the theme, you have to be familiar with and have an affinity for American highway culture.

Which was always going to be a rather big ask in Europe. A theme has to work in it's environment and with it's audience. So having a desert-style building in a place that gets a lot of grey, cold weather is a mis-fit and if people have little affection for the theme, then that all becomes glaringly obvious.

So if they don't want to knock it down and start again, they have to give it something that people DO have affection for.  I think Cars is about a good a fit as was possible.

The point about the hotels for me is that they all have their own theme and atmosphere, staying at the hotel New York offers a different experience to the Santa Fe or the Cheyenne, for example. No doubt we all have our favourite hotels like we have our favourite rides. The Santa Fe almost feels like a world away from the NPBC or the Disneyland hotel. So for Disney to come up with 6 very different themed hotel experiences within 20 mins walking distance from each other is good. We've stayed at the SL the most, for some people it will be the Disneyland hotel or the Santa Fe. The Santa Fe is in the style of a pueblo Indian village which could be found in the very hot and dry climate of New Mexico, and as others have said  the cold, grey and harsh winters of northern Europe don't suit it as well.

Quote from: "DutchBrit"

Quote from: "pussinboots"I suppose that, in order to appreciate the theme, you have to be familiar with and have an affinity for American highway culture.

Which was always going to be a rather big ask in Europe. A theme has to work in it's environment and with it's audience. So having a desert-style building in a place that gets a lot of grey, cold weather is a mis-fit and if people have little affection for the theme, then that all becomes glaringly obvious.

So if they don't want to knock it down and start again, they have to give it something that people DO have affection for.  I think Cars is about a good a fit as was possible.

Well, they could have delved deep into Route 66 history and come up with better visual solutions themselves, but fine, this must have been a bit quicker for them. *sarcasm*

Quote from: "pussinboots"Well, they could have delved deep into Route 66 history and come up with better visual solutions themselves, but fine, this must have been a bit quicker for them. *sarcasm*

Why stick with a theme that isn't working? Going deeper into Route 66 is hardly going to help when most people didn't care about the 'lighter' version of Route 66/Mexican motel!

Radiator Springs was supposed to BE on Route 66. It's a run-down place with old neon. And it is very-well known and very well liked. So yes, I guess it was a pretty easy decision. That's a good thing when it's going to be a largely popular choice, and the not costing all that much in cash or effort is also pretty damned good business.

Radiator Springs is also a place where everybody is a car. It takes a heck of a lot more imagination to make that work than it does to imagine that it's sunny.

And it is actually sunny for a few months of the year. There is no season in which everybody is a car.

I think they could have taken Predock's hotel and made it work, but painting Pixar silhouette friezes all over and replacing Clint Eastwood with an image that toddlers all over the world have on their school supplies and alarm clocks is too easy, and ultimately destructive.

But toddlers go to DLP. Parents may get alot of pleasure from watching their children having fun in a Disney Cars themed hotel, even if it wasn't the original idea behind the Santa Fe. I suppose Disney's Cars means more to most people than a pueblo village on the banks of the Rio Grande. But as you say, Cars is a fantasy film where everybody is a car, and I doubt that the Santa Fe will ever look like Radiator Springs out of the film. To really judge we must wait and see the finished results. I don't know how Disney could have made Predock's original hotel work any better than it already did.

The rooms still look the same except I like what they have done in the bathroom with the mirror.

Quote from: "ed-uk"But toddlers go to DLP. Parents may get alot of pleasure from watching their children having fun in a Disney Cars themed hotel, even if it wasn't the original idea behind the Santa Fe.

But again the question: Why is everything concerned DLP reduced to children? Why does everything has to be focussed on children's interests? There are also other visitors. Not everything has to be matched childrens interests. Maybe families with toddlers are the majority at the moment, but it's all a matter of advertisement. I always wonder why they are focusing all their commercials on just this particular group. How should other visitors be attracted by that? Especially a company with huge depts should go after every possible visitor in my opinion. But the recent proceeding of Disney is concerned with only a part of the population - can they really do without other sources of income?

I wouldn't say everything at DLP is focused on childrens interests. Alot of adults probably enjoy the Cars films and animation. I know some people think that toons shouldn't step out of fantasyland, but they're popular with guests in the hotels. The characters and the films are very important to Disney. Adults know it's DLP, and that the hotel Santa Fe isn't really a pueblo village on route 66 in New Mexico, even if we're ment to think it is, and they will know it's not Radiator Springs.

Quote from: "Patrick89"But again the question: Why is everything concerned DLP reduced to children? Why does everything has to be focussed on children's interests? There are also other visitors.

The children very rarely go on their own. They tend to bring parents and grandparents with them. Generally you are going to get a bigger group when children are part of it than you will when only adults are involved.

And I'd say that families are certainly by far the biggest users of the Santa Fe.

That is missing the point entirely.

The truth is that people like Walt Disney, Michael Eisner, Mary Blair and, oh, Robert A.M. Stern really only did what they wanted for themselves. Disney works best when its creative decisions are made by eccentric grown men and women who border on autism spectrum disorders but are incredibly driven to turn the twinkles in their eyes into multi-million-dollar projects. Children, especially those who are budding eccentric grown men and women, tend to take to this as a kind of magical side effect. Disney is at its worst when its creative decisions are made by sensible adults who think they can figure out what kids like. Disney is at its worst when it thinks that its Home Depot line of children's wallpaper would make a decent addition to a hotel.

I would add John Lasseter to the list with Walt Disney. I'm sure more thought has gone into the Cars touches than picking a roll of wallpaper.

I dont know if I like the rooms yet.... seems a bit of a mess to me. Traffic cones on the wall? Metal 'flooring' on the wall behind the door.... and that mirror...(it is nice, but a bit random)

Quote from: "Martyn"Metal 'flooring' on the wall behind the door.... and that mirror...(it is nice, but a bit random)

The metal flooring on the wall looks really cheap. It could have looked worse, but I still think it looks like a children's bedroom.

Quote from: "dagobert"The metal flooring on the wall looks really cheap. It could have looked worse, but I still think it looks like a children's bedroom.

Well, as Disney wants to attract only families with children these days, this is only a logical step.

You could try another hotel, the Sequioa Lodge maybe, no Cars touches there but you'll still find it full of families with children. All the hotels at DLP attract families with children, Cars touches at the Santa Fe won't make that much difference.

We are staying at the Santa Fe on the 31st March for 4 days, has every room been refurbished? We stayed in the New york last time and I am hoping its not going to be  to much of a come down after seeing some of the pictures of the hotel :(

My family may be in the minority here but we've stayed in the Santa Fe twice and we really like it. This time we actively chose it over the other hotels, not simply because of price, but because we so enjoyed our last stay there.

The implied security, safety and noise advantages of so many separate buildings are a factor, as is the adjoining Tigermarket. But the deciding factor was the "Cars" theme, which helped us all sleep well, associating it with Sally in the film wanting everyone to sleep happily and safely in her Cozy Cone motel. After a long day (we get up at 6:00am and stay in Disney Village til after 10pm!) its a lovely place to rest, and we've had no problems with the hotel.

I posted in this thread a while back about the Cars theming of our last room, which incidentally was in block 28. We had only the (rather lovely, subtle design) Cars duvets in our room.

This year we were in block 12, and our room was far more themed, although still fairly subtly. Around the top of the room was a border with stylised hand drawn versions of Lightning, Mater, Sally and Luigi. The lamp had its lampshade replaced with a traffic cone, and the wall lights were shaped like traffic cones, as was the main mirror.

All of this was subtle enough so that it wasn't constantly in your face, it still had the subdued colouring of the original Santa Fe rooms. The cone shaped stuff only helped imply the idea of staying in a "Cozy Cone" room. Oh, and we had a cute framed picture of a sleeping Mater. Nice touch to make the kids feeling sleepy :)

The only thing I wasn't so keen on was the metal style parts added (like the steel with threads that you'd walk on at a building site) to some walls, but thankfully this was only really added to small areas, mostly the back of the wardrobe/hanging rail and corridor, so I'd imagine this is acting as protection for areas most likely to get dirty/scuffed.

All in all we loved our room and the theming is cool. If it was all primary colours and gaudily computer generated pixar images I would hate it. Its not, so I don't.  :thumbs:

Sounds great! thanks for posting.

do you know if they have now refurbished all of the rooms? I guess I will find out next week when we arrive 1 week tomorrow. Kids very excited..

No problem :)

I would certainly assume that all the rooms will have been refurbed by now, they started a looong time ago and its hardly a major upheaval. Of course, I've no way to know, Disney doesn't share this information easily ;)

I forgot to mention that the bathrooms have a minor change too, the mirrors have a light up surround, and the shower area has a border. Again these are un-intrusive and I barely noticed them, but I imagine they might make the room look a little "cooler" from a kids perspective.

I hope (and I'm sure) you and your kids will have a wonderful time!

Ive just been in the Hotel Santa Fe last week -

I was extremeley disheartened by the outside of the buildings, it looked like lots of shanti apartment blocks (very off putting) the rececption staff were extremeley slow.

The room though was very clean and tidy, in ours we only had Cars bedding - Nothing else.

The Breakfast was manic/hectic but tasty as expected.

I wouldnt stay again mainly because of the walking distance to the park - but as i said the rooms them selves i had no problems with. x

Quote from: "samuelvictor"I would certainly assume that all the rooms will have been refurbed by now, they started a looong time ago and its hardly a major upheaval. Of course, I've no way to know, Disney doesn't share this information easily ;)

You'd be surprised. They're still doing the Sequoia refurb (but that's almost finished). It'll take about two years, if they work at the same speed.

I've had a look at  Hotel Santa Fe last week and i was very impressed with the construction that was going on!!! New colors on the building that are similar to the original version but way warmer! I was so happy to see how well it looked and i'm absolutely looking forward to see the result! Anyone interested in a few pics? Let me know!

@Esmeralda: do share your photos!

Quote from: "samuelvictor "I would certainly assume that all the rooms will have been refurbed by now, they started a looong time ago and its hardly a major upheaval. Of course, I've no way to know, Disney doesn't share this information easily ;)

Don't forget they have to strip the rooms to the bare bones. And not all rooms have the same shape and size, so lots of custom work has to happen.  :)

Quote from: "esmeralda"I've had a look at  Hotel Santa Fe last week and i was very impressed with the construction that was going on!!! New colors on the building that are similar to the original version but way warmer! I was so happy to see how well it looked and i'm absolutely looking forward to see the result! Anyone interested in a few pics? Let me know!

We stayed there in June and they were decorating the outside of the building when we went so would love to see your photo's of the buildings!  

What was your room like?? We had problems with the safe not working and the plug in the bathroom sink getting stuck.  Reception did not seem interested in helping us with either of these problems with our room; so we've been put off staying there a bit.  Just wondered if you had had different experience and whether we were just unluckey?? thanks :thumbs:

Quote from: "aliscrapper"

Quote from: "esmeralda"I've had a look at  Hotel Santa Fe last week and i was very impressed with the construction that was going on!!! New colors on the building that are similar to the original version but way warmer! I was so happy to see how well it looked and i'm absolutely looking forward to see the result! Anyone interested in a few pics? Let me know!

We stayed there in June and they were decorating the outside of the building when we went so would love to see your photo's of the buildings!  

What was your room like?? We had problems with the safe not working and the plug in the bathroom sink getting stuck.  Reception did not seem interested in helping us with either of these problems with our room; so we've been put off staying there a bit.  Just wondered if you had had different experience and whether we were just unluckey?? thanks :thumbs:

We stayed at Sequioa Lodge.  As usual we just take a stroll around every single hotel cause we love each hotel ;-) We also stayed several times at Santa Fe but last time in '06. I guess next year we'll be back!
Sorry, for no information about rooms standard. Usually reception was helpful in every hotel we stayed. I'm sorry to hear you had bad experience!
Pics are coming later! They are not finished with painting but i didn't expect construction going on already, that's why i was so surprised and happy! :-)

Quote from: "esmeralda"

Quote from: "aliscrapper"

Quote from: "esmeralda"I've had a look at  Hotel Santa Fe last week and i was very impressed with the construction that was going on!!! New colors on the building that are similar to the original version but way warmer! I was so happy to see how well it looked and i'm absolutely looking forward to see the result! Anyone interested in a few pics? Let me know!

We stayed there in June and they were decorating the outside of the building when we went so would love to see your photo's of the buildings!  

What was your room like?? We had problems with the safe not working and the plug in the bathroom sink getting stuck.  Reception did not seem interested in helping us with either of these problems with our room; so we've been put off staying there a bit.  Just wondered if you had had different experience and whether we were just unluckey?? thanks :thumbs:

We stayed at Sequioa Lodge.  As usual we just take a stroll around every single hotel cause we love each hotel ;-) We also stayed several times at Santa Fe but last time in '06. I guess next year we'll be back!
Sorry, for no information about rooms standard. Usually reception was helpful in every hotel we stayed. I'm sorry to hear you had bad experience!
Pics are coming later! They are not finished with painting but i didn't expect construction going on already, that's why i was so surprised and happy! :-)

We've stayed at Sequoia Lodge and the Cheyenne and the one reoccurring theme which is really a worry is most of the plug sockets have been almost hanging off the wall!

Found CM's at SL and Cheyenne really helpful.  But noticed a lot of "cutting corners" when we stayed on-site this year - for exampel no Disney soap and one day we didn't even get a new toilet roll!!!  Seriously considering staying off site next year and getting annual passes

Here are some pics:


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Door sign:
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Wallpaper in the hallway of one of the pueblos:
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Carpet in the hallway :
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Trading Post:
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(//http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii586/jumuelue/HotelSantaFe2012/0d5485f9.jpg)

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Thanks for the photo's Julia - it's nice to see how the refurbishments are coming along.  Those photo's look as tho they were taken from the block we were in which was Trail of Water block; building 33

I'm sure I read a good review of Santa Fe with photos of the new rooms - was it on this forum?
I am looking for photos of the newly refurbished rooms, and when the refurb is expected to be completed. Has anyone heard? I am there next week, so might go over to the Santa Fe and ask them.

I was to see in Santa Fe on my way to the DLP in August 2012. "Cars" is not exactly my favorite movie, but the new theme hotel is very nice! Sensitively done with lots of nice details. The whole atmosphere of the old hotel is well suited to the topic.

Any news on the renovations? Does anyone have pics or know if they are finished by now?

I didn't like Santa Fe at all.  It looks so uninviting no matter how much they paint it.  It reminds me of some of the run down housing estates in England.  We didn't rate our stay there at all so just stick to HNY or Newport Bay now.

I was reluctant to return to SF, our only visit was in 2004, having previously stayed at Cheyenne and I thought there was no comparison and we've chosen Cheyenne over it ever since.  In january this year though, it was my nephew's 5 year old birthday and it wasn't up for question we had to stay at Santa Fe and he loved it, the lightning flashes on the floor, the bedspread, the pictures on the wall - he thought they were fab, the old theme wouldn't have had the same effect.
Santa Fe is never going to win any prizes for it's looks, but the Cars theme is a massive hit with younger visitors.
The only gripe I have about the hotel is breakfast, queuing outside in arctic conditions is not nice but it was the only option after 7.30am :( in fact we ended up skipping breakfast at the hotel and going to McD's or Salon Mickey.

I am staying here for the 3rd time in March and can't wait. I love the hotel and have never had a problem with anything there, the only thing I would like is a kettle in the room but apart from that I think it is fabulous. I cant wait to stay there again and keep hoping that we get on of the 'new' rooms. I personally love Cars and love this hotel.
Rant over :D

Are all the rooms now themed to cars? I was under the impression they were...  

We have booked to go Santa Fe at Christmas purely because my 3 yr old loves Lightning McQueen... i'd hate for us to not get that theme in the room ?

I can't help but feel that the fresh paint and Cars theme are a bit of a stop-gap measure whilst an actual plan is built up. I've stayed at Santa Fe twice, and both times wished that it was Cheyenne instead. The whole place just feels cheap and like a run down motel.

I'd love to see them convert some of the units into rockwork mountains (similar to the ones at Cars Land), and the others into the buildings down Radiator Springs main drag. Usually I'd shy away from character themed hotels, but in my eyes Santa Fe is so low quality for a Disney Resort, that a full Cars overlay may be the only way to make me want to visit again!

Quote from: "Scissorsboi"I can't help but feel that the fresh paint and Cars theme are a bit of a stop-gap measure whilst an actual plan is built up. I've stayed at Santa Fe twice, and both times wished that it was Cheyenne instead. The whole place just feels cheap and like a run down motel.

I'd love to see them convert some of the units into rockwork mountains (similar to the ones at Cars Land), and the others into the buildings down Radiator Springs main drag. Usually I'd shy away from character themed hotels, but in my eyes Santa Fe is so low quality for a Disney Resort, that a full Cars overlay may be the only way to make me want to visit again!

I agree with you it doesnt seem to fit in with Disney and is very low quality. Walking through the swamp that seperates it from the Village and Parks makes you think you've left Disney altogether

Quote from: "MrMoo"Are all the rooms now themed to cars? I was under the impression they were...  

We have booked to go Santa Fe at Christmas purely because my 3 yr old loves Lightning McQueen... i'd hate for us to not get that theme in the room ?

They are going thought the proses of changing all the rooms and I don't know when they will be finished, I heard somewhere it was mid-end of 2013 to 2014. But saying that they seem to be moving quite quickly. I hope you get a Cars room, they look lush :D
I hope  have helped.

Quote from: "lauralouisemidwinter"

Quote from: "MrMoo"Are all the rooms now themed to cars? I was under the impression they were...  

We have booked to go Santa Fe at Christmas purely because my 3 yr old loves Lightning McQueen... i'd hate for us to not get that theme in the room ?

They are going thought the proses of changing all the rooms and I don't know when they will be finished, I heard somewhere it was mid-end of 2013 to 2014. But saying that they seem to be moving quite quickly. I hope you get a Cars room, they look lush :D
I hope  have helped.

Thanks Laura, maybe i'll give them a call a week or two before we arrive and let them know how much the little one likes cars! can't hurt can it ?  :D/

Do we know if all the rooms in Santa Fe hotel have been refurbished to the new cars theme or are they still refurbishing some blocks.    I'm going in March and have booked a Rio Grande room,  Just wondering if all these rooms have been refurbished?

Not all rooms are ready in Santa Fe, till summer it will be finish completely with the cars theming.

Any updates yet? I guess they're almost finished, so i'm very curious on how it looks now!!!

We have just made  a little stroll through Hotel Santa Fe last week and so far NOT all rooms are ready - we saw quite some rooms/hallways with ongoing renovations works - and through open curtains we could also see some rooms that still had the old look.

There something I overall would like to say about the Cars-concept for Santa Fe:
I loved Predock's original concept.
I could live with the repainted buildings in contrast to the original look, even if this already broke up with Predock's concept.
I could even live with the rooms being themed after Cars, cause the rooms never really were part of Predock's great concept.
But adding parts of a Cars-Theming to the outside areas, too (besides the now stupid version on the movie screen over the main building) is just ridiculous.
After starting with this, they can only get this done right, if they retheme the whole outside are after Cars from scratch, to a Radiator Springs setting.
Adding some elements here and there will in the end result in a complete mixed-up something being far away from any consistent theming.
Horrible - imho they are destroying this hotel like they did with Gehry's great idea for Festival Disney. Nowadays the Village is nothing more than a senseless mixture of entertainment locations without any soul and heart and concept.
And this is how Santa Fe will end up, too.
At HNY they stopped early enough and kept the damage that was done to the concept by repainting the central towers from blue to red/brown to a minimum.
But changing Santa Fe's outisde to a Cars theme will not only destroy this hotel's concept but also the concept of the whole original hotel district (besides DLH) whichs intention always was to keep Disney/Character-Elements out of the area while still delivering well themened hotels that also were interesting from an achitectural point of view.
A few days ago I just read again through the special issue of the "Conaissance des Arts" magazine from 1992 for ED opening and already got kind of sad, seeing again how many great ideas from the original Village/Hotel-district-concept, the architects invested so many thoughts in, are simply getting washed away. Doing so, they could have saved an awfull lot of money by doing the hotels trough Imagineering from the beginning instead of hiring such fantastic architects like Stern, Graves, Gehry etc. when they are now destroying their work anyway....