Home

[Anthony]

Maybe they're saving money on building new tram tour sets by just routing it through Frontierland?

These rumours, true or not, are timing well with the 20th Anniversary and the amount of time needed to prepare something big. I'd be stunned if they went with a Frontierland expansion rather than The Little Mermaid in Fantasyland though... don't anyone hold your breath.

Edit: And looking at Google Earth, those fences by the Dinotopia set are a long, long way from the Chaparral really...

[Quark]

IMHO there's far too much backstage infrastructure (including the only access road to costuming and the whole western part of the park) for anything to grow much beyond the berm, let alone towards the tram tour route.
Although the tram tour might be rerouted, potentially even eventually approaching Catastrophe Canyon from the south, I don't think we'll ever see the road that currently runs in parallel go. If the farm and the Tarzan theatre go, maybe the former canoes as well, and perhaps a bit of the berm, incorporating the railroad, there's really a *lot* of space there. And I bet that wasn't coincidence from the start - in worst case, you could even push towards Indy, more than towards the studios...

[netjack]

If there is really something big in the pipe for Frontierland I would rather bet on an updated Version of Marc Davis' Western River Expedition instead of Splash Mountain. Song of the South is something that Europeans don't know or connect to and the Western River Expedition would definately make much more sense to the overall concept of "our" Frontierland.

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2008/ ... river.html

Let's come back now to Disneyland Paris. Soon after the park opening in 1992, new attractions to increase the park capacity were needed, and as quick as possible. Each land show producer and their team were asked to propose new projects, and here is where the Western River Expedition attraction project makes its comeback.

For Jeff Burke, show producer of DLP's Frontierland, the unique landscape theming of the land was perfect to introduce WRE. You see, at DLP, Frontierland don't have all this greenery you can find in the U.S parks with a Tom Sawyer island at the center of the river. In Paris, we have instead Big Thunder Mountain island in the middle of the Rivers of the far west, and a vegetation coming more from the desert - cactus, etc...than from the banks of the Mississipi river. In two words, Paris Frontierland has a more "dry" vegetation. And when you'll know that Marc Davis WRE had a kind of red "canyon" exterior theming, you will understand why DLP's Frontierland would have been ( and still is ) the perfect Frontierland to build Marc's attraction.

So, back in 1993, the imagineers bring out again Marc's artwork and WRE models and thought that the best place to build the attraction in Frontierland would have been in the land available behind the train station - exactly where rumors since the last 10 years keep saying that the park-is-going-to-build-here-Splash Mountain-anytime-soon. Although it's true that a Splash Mountain attraction was also envisioned by the imagineers at this same location, the first one who almost did it was definitely Western River Expedition.

[PetiteSirene]

I believe (though not sure) it has been stated that if Splash Mountain was to ever grace DLRP it would not be keeping its Song of the South theme. It is true that:

1) The theming and story would not fit into DLRP as there is no Critter Country
2) Song of the South, though a brilliant film from my childhood is not widely known here (dispite everyone knowing the song Zip a Dee Doo Dah   )

If they were to build Splash Mountain in DLRP I hope they come up with a great way to make it not just unique, but as fun and addictive as the original.

Having said that though... How would Splash Mountain into Frontierlands story?  :-k

[The Butlin Boy]

Having said that though... How would Splash Mountain into Frontierlands story?  :-k

Well just look at the link that netjack posted above:

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2008/ ... river.html

This is how I've imagined a Splash Mountain could look at DLRP for a while now; the same kind of ride system as the others, but the story and animatronics from the concept art in that link replacing the Song of the South. Add to that a new unique song, as catchy and iconic as 'A Pirate's Life for Me' and 'It's a Small World', and we've got another world class, unique DLRP attraction. :wink:    

If Disney actually made this, I'd be the happiest person on Earth! :mrgreen:

[pussinboots]

If there is really something big in the pipe for Frontierland I would rather bet on an updated Version of Marc Davis' Western River Expedition instead of Splash Mountain. Song of the South is something that Europeans don't know or connect to [...]

That, as has been discussed a lot these past few years, is simply not true. While the movie itself is obscure on both sides on the Atlantic, the actual characters in it are better recognized on the European continent than anywhere else on earth due to the long-lasting popularity of Disney's comic books there. Americans don't know the movie or the characters in it, and yet there's a Splash Mountain on either coast.

And while it's all pointless conjecture, I really doubt that they're going to build Western River Expedition anytime soon — well, Tokyo might throw some loose change at the idea, but certainly not in a park where Disney signs the check. It's too expensive, it's dangerously untried and it involves not one of the Four "P"s of Success: Pixar, Princesses, Pooh and Pirates.

[id@53]

My apologies if this has already been covered somewhere in the forum, but do we not have a potential issue with our (winter) climate and a wet ride?

[Remco K.]

My apologies if this has already been covered somewhere in the forum, but do we not have a potential issue with our (winter) climate and a wet ride?

Just as much as in Tokyo. A flume ride could be constructed to prevent you from getting wet.

[Quark]

I've had the same discussions roughly 10 years ago already

I still think:
- If a new E-Ticket gets built in the original park, it's going to be Splash Mountain, because guests want a water ride, and there is not a single one in the entire resort
- Although it might be more attractive in the summer, it can be fine-tuned
- I don't think it will be themed to "Song of the South", there's so many easy other options...

Of course, that's just my common sense opinion. Mark my words, though. And then let's talk again in five years or so

[Anthony]

I still think:
- If a new E-Ticket gets built in the original park, it's going to be Splash Mountain, because guests want a water ride, and there is not a single one in the entire resort

It's strange all this talk has resurfaced though really - just six months ago it seemed like we were almost certainly about to see The Little Mermaid as the next E-Ticket (well, I say "next" - it'd only the park's second since opening, right?). It's already likely going to both DCA and MK, and to build it in Paris would obviously require much less land movement and exterior theming, etc than a new version of Splash.

I'd prefer a new E-ticket in Frontierland, but I still can't help but think Euro Disney SCA wouldn't, given that popular and people-eating alternative...

[Quark]

That's a very good point. I don't count Mermaid as an E-Ticket - in my opinion that's a D-Ticket, no matter how nice.

So given the choice between Splash Mountain, Indiana Jones, Western River Expedition, that's where I think the answer is clear.

Choosing between Splash Mountain and Little Mermaid is an entirely different ballgame. Given the cost-savings due to it being build elsewhere and the limited impact on the available land, I think it's the most likely choice of future attractions in the main park.

The only reason why this topic resurfaced is because Tarzan was canned. Clearly, again that was a cost-saving exercise in uncertain economic times - it might clear the stage for building works, but I wouldn't even be surprised if they tear it down, put a little meet and greet area on top of it and leave it as is until they're prepared to move forward with Splash Mountain.

Which is what I think the whole thing boils down to - do the feel it's necessary to deploy an E-Ticket now? Personally, I don't think it is - the resort is doing fine for the first time, so why not keep that joker (like Space Mountain) for the really bad times, and save the money for the time being.

I think it's important to give guests the impression that both parks keep evolving and they just HAVE to come back, and I think Mermaid fits that bill nicely. Although building that AND Ratatouille next door might be a few too many dark rides - maybe it's a case of either-or?

[Anthony]

Which is what I think the whole thing boils down to - do the feel it's necessary to deploy an E-Ticket now? Personally, I don't think it is - the resort is doing fine for the first time, so why not keep that joker (like Space Mountain) for the really bad times, and save the money for the time being.

That's a good way to look at it, and a Splash Mountain-type ride would be a considerable joker to play.

The cancellation of Tarzan and end of The Lion King probably gives more legs to the park consolidating its big shows into a single, proper new theatre (like Hong Kong's Fantasyland theatre) than it does to Splash Mountain being built immediately. I'm not sure what level of investment that'd require though.

[pussinboots]

That's a good way to look at it, and a Splash Mountain-type ride would be a considerable joker to play.

The cancellation of Tarzan and end of The Lion King probably gives more legs to the park consolidating its big shows into a single, proper new theatre (like Hong Kong's Fantasyland theatre) than it does to Splash Mountain being built immediately. I'm not sure what level of investment that'd require though.

That new theater really does appear to be Central Plaza.

But isn't the resort doing well for the first time because of recent investments (Crush, the Tower of Terror and the Once Upon a Dream Parade, mainly)? Surely it is no accident that the "bad times" coincide with the "gap years." The resort did well for the first time when it opened Space Mountain, it did well again when it premiered the above.

How long can they keep this momentum with vacuous offerings like Mickey's Magical Whatsitcalled? Are we looking at another decade of inverted roller coasters and mediocre attendance? Isn't it time to start building something substantial again*?

*And lest we forget, that takes a couple of years.

[Riebi]

I think that´s an interesting point. For me they MUST focus on two things: First they must really fast let WDS become a real Disney theme park. We know ToT, Toon Studios and Stitch was a step in the right direction. But it was the first step to do. It´s nice to see that Euro Disney S.C.A. seems to know that too. With the additions in the future it should be a park where you hardly need your day. What they hardly need are also some new real table service restaurants (I don´t want to eat just from carts and self services as an "older" family member. I know how my parents look at me as I said we should change to Disney Village to get their table service food)

The other thing is also important: Don´t forget Disneyland Park!!!! It´s nice to see how much love the seems to have now for WDS. But DLP hasn´t seen a big attraction since years.
The construction of a new real Disneyland attraction should take some years. So they should stop to invest money in some really kool show-stages all over Disneyland Park and use their ressources for a equal (if not better) entertainment with all the assets they have already. I don´t need a 5 times a day show at Central Plaza (Are they thinking people will watch it 5 times a day? the same show???) and a blue alien stage at Discoveryland. I wan´t to have my brass band at Main Street, my cowboy showdown at Frontierland, a nice magical show at the castle stage, african tam tams never at discoveryland but at adventureland and at discoveryland I need a bigger production.
This nonsense construction works is for me the real fault in times of financial crisis (despite they forget again to invite the germans to the magical party and seems to take their marketing again to france, uk, spain).
It´s important for Disneyland Park to get some new attractions. I don´t think the concept of MMP is complete wrong or something but it seems they take their money to the wrong things. I remember very well: the first years of DLP you had something new to watch nearly every year. It was great so see storybookland grown, it was great to see that they built something calling "le temple du péril" behind green fences at adventurland (it was wonderful to take a look at it from adventure isle) and of course it was great to see the construction of space mountain. You must have the feeling that their will be something interesting new for your next visit. Events like MMP could work for a short time. But with all this canceling fever all around and all this horrible construction that are a hard punch for every landscape designer of the parks MMP seems trying to rain on my parade more and more.

The canceling of Tarzan is just one piece of this. I have no longer the feeling I get something special with MMP. I have the feeling they wanna just get me and my money insite the gates. no matter the cost. I hope the future reports will change my mind again a bit but at the moment I ask myself: You will be at Disneyland CA in october, so why souldn´t I miss this event and have a better trip a year later!

[pussinboots]

I think that´s an interesting point. For me they MUST focus on two things: First they must really fast let WDS become a real Disney theme park. We know ToT, Toon Studios and Stitch was a step in the right direction. But it was the first step to do. It´s nice to see that Euro Disney S.C.A. seems to know that too. With the additions in the future it should be a park where you hardly need your day. What they hardly need are also some new real table service restaurants (I don´t want to eat just from carts and self services as an "older" family member. I know how my parents look at me as I said we should change to Disney Village to get their table service food)

Oh yes, absolutely. In January one day, the Studios had more people in it than the Disneyland Park. That is excellent progress, but also slightly frightening — they are not in a million years equal parks! How can Disneyland Park-style numbers of guests fit into those ten rides, four restaurants and five shops? If they have actually succeeded in making the Studios a success, now is the time to make it success-proof.

The other thing is also important: Don´t forget Disneyland Park!!!! It´s nice to see how much love the seems to have now for WDS. But DLP hasn´t seen a big attraction since years.
The construction of a new real Disneyland attraction should take some years. So they should stop to invest money in some really kool show-stages all over Disneyland Park and use their ressources for a equal (if not better) entertainment with all the assets they have already. I don´t need a 5 times a day show at Central Plaza (Are they thinking people will watch it 5 times a day? the same show???) and a blue alien stage at Discoveryland. I wan´t to have my brass band at Main Street, my cowboy showdown at Frontierland, a nice magical show at the castle stage, african tam tams never at discoveryland but at adventureland and at discoveryland I need a bigger production.
This nonsense construction works is for me the real fault in times of financial crisis (despite they forget again to invite the germans to the magical party and seems to take their marketing again to france, uk, spain).
It´s important for Disneyland Park to get some new attractions. I don´t think the concept of MMP is complete wrong or something but it seems they take their money to the wrong things. I remember very well: the first years of DLP you had something new to watch nearly every year. It was great so see storybookland grown, it was great to see that they built something calling "le temple du péril" behind green fences at adventurland (it was wonderful to take a look at it from adventure isle) and of course it was great to see the construction of space mountain. You must have the feeling that their will be something interesting new for your next visit. Events like MMP could work for a short time. But with all this canceling fever all around and all this horrible construction that are a hard punch for every landscape designer of the parks MMP seems trying to rain on my parade more and more.

When my parents took me in '94, they were building Space Mountain. One of the main reasons we returned the next year was to ride it. And look at the effect the Tower is having on the Studios — it's basically transformed it. So yes, it works.

But wouldn't a large theater for big productions be a better fit for the Studios? When the Disney-MGM Studios opened, it contained almost nothing but shows. It seems a natural fit.