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[Malin]

My concern is that Disney won't listen to the negative feedback coming off message boards like this or the odd negative article in the press. Something tells me this lesson won't be realised until the mistake is made again in Hong Kong. Although don't expect an easy ride with the Asian media like has mostly been the case over in Europe.

Disney know it can do better rides. But when you have a market like Europe why bother. The fans don't seem to mind the lower standards and the Media don't seem to notice. Disney tried this crap in California and is now having to pay the $1 billion bill to do the job again. The fans refused to step foot in the park and the media ripped it apart. It was even joked about on a couple of Simpsons episodes.

[DopeyDad]

mmm, not sure if a TNC like Disney even should be paying that much attention to fan boards anyway. They are for us to share views and can only represent a particular part of the market for a company like Disney. I suspect their market research may be a tad more sophisticated than that. There would be real dangers for any company in allowing itself to be steered too much by fans,as it always had to strive to gain increased market share, no company can succeed in trying to keep a very small percentage of its customers happy all the time. The bottom line will be changes in attendance and spend per head given expenditure laid out. You cleary know what you like Malin and that's cool, and it's obviously based on your own extensive experience of Disney parks, but what if Disney made your perfect park? would it necessarily be everyone else's perfect park too? I see TSPL as a clever piece of balancing merchandise potential, timing, balance to the wider the park and type of ride. Don't get me wrong, there are parts to this area that I would have preferred to see differently but it feels like they achieved what they set out too. But this gets to one of those key issues that seems to divide fans I suppose, is it OK to be happy with a corporate move if it brings overall commercial success? or are there core seated Disney values that hold some kind of final say over projects? I'm guessing here but it seems that TSPL feels like another step away from the 'values' aspect of Disney for some fans, while for others they maybe appreciate it in different ways.
It's a relief to me that this debate has moved away from the persons involved but I suspect that for some, Disney may never behave quite like it used to, while for others, this new Disney IS the Disney they are used to. I think this happens with all things and the danger is it divides those people who love it for all it's flaws.
Anyhoo, 2 glasses of wine and I'm burbling. Alway nice to hear what you guys have got to say  

[dagobert]

My concern is that Disney won't listen to the negative feedback coming off message boards like this or the odd negative article in the press. Something tells me this lesson won't be realised until the mistake is made again in Hong Kong. Although don't expect an easy ride with the Asian media like has mostly been the case over in Europe.

Disney know it can do better rides. But when you have a market like Europe why bother. The fans don't seem to mind the lower standards and the Media don't seem to notice. Disney tried this crap in California and is now having to pay the $1 billion bill to do the job again. The fans refused to step foot in the park and the media ripped it apart. It was even joked about on a couple of Simpsons episodes.

I think history will repeat itself and in ten years the parks has to be fixed with a lot of money. There is just one problem. US visitors complained a lot about DCA, while no one complains about WDS. So Disney might think, everything is fine.
If Disney is fixing the park in the future, I can imagine that some parts of TSPL will be removed or replaced. I think that WDI will transform the whole Toon Studio area into a Pixar themed land like they did in DHS.

[ed-uk]

No one complains about WDS? Fans have been complainig about WDS since 2002. I dont have a problem with WDC putting alot of money into WDS. As long as WDC pay the costs and don't pass the debts on to EuroDIsney, who are having enough problems paying back the money they already owe. That much was made clear in the article in the Independent. I like WDS, but you can't say people don't complain about it or TSPL. I don't understand your logic. But WDC will have to cough up the money if they want to transform the WDS in the way you think they should. And they've already sunk millions and millions in to DLP, with little financial reward as far as I can see.

[dagobert]

No one complains about WDS? I dont have a problem with WDC putting alot of money into WDS. As long as WDC pay the costs and not pass the depts on to EuroDIsney, who are having enough problems paying back the money they already owe. That much was made clear in the article. I like WDs, but you can't say people don't complain about it or TSPL. I don't understand your logic.

I think that's the main problem that DLP is owned by a company that doesn't belong to TWDC. Why should TWDC invest heavily in DLP when the don't have the majority. That's the same problem HKDL had. There TWDC is now investing a lot of money, because TWDC gets 5% of the joint venture. Maybe TWDC would invest more money when they get more stocks of ED SCA.

What I wanted to say that people don't complain at Disney about WDS. Most of them complain on internet forums. In addition in the US the media didn't like DCA and so TWDC was under pressure to fix it, because it isn't good to be in the news with bad coverage. The biggest problem was of course that the attendance numbers weren't as high as expected. I don't know how Disney thinks about the attendance numbers of WDS. In defense for ED SCA, I have the feeling that the company is neglected by Burbank. It deserves more attention.

I also like WDS, despite being the worst Disney parks I've evr been, I think the park improved a lot in recent years. In fact I like some of the WDS attractions better than their counterparts in Florida. I don't know if you like TSPL or not, you may already know that I think that it shouldn't have been built. As you said ED SCA is having a lot of financial problems and that's why I think they money for TSPL should have been usedfor something else. But I agree with you that the costs shouldn't be passed on ED SCA.

[pussinboots]

I have not seen anyone post a link to this article from the Independant. But very interesting read and it qoute's this very forum. Toy Story Playland fans may want to turn away now!

"When the concepts were shown at the [Disney fan] Expo last year, they even apparently drew audible boos," says Anthony Sheridan, editor of Disney fan site DLRP Magic. Reaction worsened when photos leaked out showing the new rides under construction. "'I've seen it with my own eyes today. It looks ugly, there is no excuse for this in the park," wrote one Disney fan on DLRP Magic. Another added that "it would have been better if the budget had been spent on one attraction instead of three quite standard funfair attractions".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 58636.html

Hey, Anthony made the Independent. That's cool, that's cool.

[johnd331]

Hey, Anthony made the Independent. That's cool, that's cool.

Yeah, indeed. Congratulations! I surely hope the journalist got your quotes somewhat right.

But reading the article I stumbled across this:

The company isn't leaving anything to chance; these rides are seen as key to Disneyland Paris's economic future.

I must say, my jaw dropped to the floor after reading this. And not in a gentle sort of way, rather in the sort of way that leaves a nasty dent in the floor and leaves you counting your teeth afterwards.

For once, I hope this is just a gross misunderstanding. Or... do they really believe somewhere up there that they can save the resorts financial future with the addition of three off-the-shelve kiddie rides? The kind of rides anybody can get at countless other occasions?

Has it come to this, that they believe they can create magic by just putting a sticker with a brandname on a standard product? Maybe they can open a permanent funfair at one of their parkinglots and call that the third gate then...

For me, this little expansion always has been some kind of queue-absorbent. People that hapily queue more than an hour for one of those rides won't be queueing at the rides worth visiting. I've never seen any reason at all to plan a visit to go see it.

And that's the argument I hear all around me. I had already quite some people ask me something like this: Hey, they opened a new "park" in Disneyland Paris? Something for kids? Some playland with 3 kiddie rides in it, is that right? My answer: mostly right yeah. Their answer: Oh... no need to go see that. Do you know when they open up a new REAL ride?

So there you have it (at least from me)... Most people I encounter and talk about it are NOT being motivated in any way to spend another visit to the park any time soon by this little additions. And I cannot blame them. There is nothing inspiring about those rides if you ask me. Almost anything there is to experience is hidden in plain sight. You exactly know what's going to happen on any of those rides. No magic, no dark, hidden, storyline. Just a small kick after standing in line for quite a while.

I hope they still have some cash left to fix things, after they wake up from their current rush. They going to need it to build something worthwile. Something that really draws a crowd again. Or, maybe they just start to get the resort back to its former self and start advertising what they have already in a right way...

[davewasbaloo]

Well, we are back and exhausted. I will get my photos and trip report up later, but I thought I would chime in about TSPL. In short, a mixed review here:

We went to WDSP on Saturday and took advantage of the AP exclusive EMH, which we were very grateful for. I promised not to pass comment and ruin it for the kids or our friends that we travelled with.

After we went through the main DLP security checks (the WDSP ones were closed), we headed left at the Imagineering statue and the Front Lot cast members checked our passes and we were ushered through towards the park.

We then queued at the gates, and we were let in at 8:30 (not bad going effort by the children as we had been in DLP until 11:30 the night before having gotten up at 4:00am to go the park - hard core kids). We quickly trotted through Studio 1 and turned right through Toon Studios. When the kids saw Buzz, they went ballistic with excitement, especially when he spoke (though Mikey - age 7 - asked why he was here and in Discoveryland). And the kids were very excited to see the land and discover things about it. For this reason, I am sure there will be glowing praise in some quarters. And as I have said before, having greenery and nooks and crannies to explore a little has added to what has been missing in this park. Also, there are some nice touches as everyone knows, and as I said before the queues are pretty well done.

However, my prophesies (that others too agreeed) were proven in this land. There were barriers around some of the photo points such as the jeep in the Parachute queue, and the RC racer that was designed for people to sit in. In this latter case, he barriers were not see through, so children couldn't even see the majority of it :-(

Onto the attractions now. We first headed off to Slinky Zig Zag spin as we thought the kids would enjoy that the most. Sadly, it was 101 and they did not know when it would be back up :-( An attraction that is in carnivals around the globe, the kids were disappointed.

They were not sure whether they wanted to go on the parachutes, but we talked them into it and got in line. Thankfully first thing in the morning for EMH, it was posted as a 10 minute wait, and took 15. It was a slow loader, I can only imagine what it is like during a busy time. The queue was quite impressive as it did feel like we were shrunk to the size of a toy, and my friend and I waxed lyrical about how we used to play with them.

We boarded the chutes, but sadly being in threes, we all had to split up (oh well, with twos it would have been the same.

Now, this attraction was surprisingly fun. The kids adored it, aspecially when it jolted at the top. But I stand by my capacity concerns. An attraction of this sort is fine at a less crowded park, but for a Disney park, it still needs more capacity (3 or 4 towers perhaps). Though the athetic impact out of the land, still annoys me greatly). But it was a lot of fun. By the time we got off, it was still early into AP EMH and the wait was posted at 45 minutes. By the middle of the day, it was up to 2 hours. It is fun for a 10, maybe even a 20 minute wait, but 2 hours is crazy. Even though the crowd levels may subside, I doubt the impact will be much (given the waits can still be long for Cars, Crush and Carpets).

Checking on Slinky Dog, still closed and about 6 engineers are stood looking at it. So we weigh up RC Racer. Our friends want to try it and Mikey is amazingly tall enough for it (where did the time go), whereas Jessica (age 5 and Eva age 4 are too short and dying to try it). We agree to do babyswitch, with Mark and Amanda riding together (first time since becoming parents they have been able to do a thrill ride together!!! Yay), and Mike and I.

Now I was warned by a cast member friend of mine that on top of it having height restrictions, it also is not great for tall or broad guests either. I was advised to ask the cast member at the front to see if we could try before queuing. When we did, we were told to get in line and find out when we board :-(. Hopefully this was the response because it was EMH, and the queue was a 15 minute wait. I would have been livid if it were 2 hours (the posted wait times later in the day), because as you may have guessed, my friend Mark and I were too big for it. Having been on almost every attraction in Disneyland, DCA, the MK, Epcot, DHS, DAK, DLP and WDSP, for the first time in 35 years, I was too big for an attraction in a Disney park (and before anyone says it, I am much lighter now than I have been in 8 years). Not happy. Mikey was very upset because after getting the guts to ride it, Daddy could not. Thankfully my friend Amanda went on it with him, but I felt terrible about myself and this attraction.

Mikey rode it screaming covering his eyes. And when they got off, he said he wanted to do it again, and Amanda by the end of the holiday said for her it was a high point and scarier than Space Mountain - lol. For me it left a bitter taste.

Sarah and Mikey then went through the exit for baby switch and rode again. He loved it again (though he covered his eyes again) and Sarah came off saying it was alright, but I hadn't missed much (I do wonder if that was her way of trying to make me feel better).

We then explored the back of the playland and the kids loved Rex (I must confess with the sound effects I thought it cool too). And they repaired the damage to the bottom of it. The shop was cute, but it sold the same TS stuff you can find all over the resort, and we proceeded through the barrel tunnel which was cute. As we emmerged out the otherside into the PAris street, I then got excited by the trees, lamps and benches. That was the best part of TSPL IMHO.

By the time we left, the rest of the park was open and Crush had a 90 minute queue and Cars 20 mins by 10:00 am (growing later). So did it help capacity, marginally, but not enough to feel it. It will likely be busy all the time, like Dumbo, but I would not want to do this in the winter (brrrr).

So I spoke with them this morning, and asked for their views:

Kids - it is fun, but lots of questions - why is Rex smaller than Buzz? Why did we not feel like we were shrinking? Why was daddy not able to ride RC? Funny stuff.

Sarah's view was that it was cute and fun, but belongs somewhere like Alton Towers.

My view is we have to live with this waste of capital investment. It will be popular, but will also likely lead to complaints. And I am concerned for what WDI Paris do in the future. But the greenery is nice.

And having met with several hard core DIsney fans, web masters and cast members this weekend, they said they feel similar but have not written about it because either:

a) they don't want to put a downer on other people's enjoyment

b) they do not wished to be identified by Disney for fear of repurcussions

c) they cannot be bothered.

Hmmmmm, interesting.

[Timbo]

Fantastic review davewasbaloo !!! Yours was the one review that I was really interested to see as you have been so vocal about TSPL . It seems it is not too bad , though of course a lot of us wanted something else instead , but it is here and staying ! But I am just stunned that RC Racer has so many size restrictions , it seems very un -Disney to make a ride like this , as you said yourself I have never seen a ride in the parks with this type of limit to it.
Were the seats exceptionally small with tight legroom ? did they squeeze in extra seats across , which made less room ?
The review in the Times the other week gave it an okay thumbs up , but the journalist did wonder why Woody was nowhere to be seen !

[davewasbaloo]

It was a case that you have an over the shoulder restraint that you pull down and then lock a seatbelt from the seat into it. I could not get the two buckles to meet as my shoulders stopped it. Yet I am ok on Nemesis, the Vampire and other coasters around the globe, as well as everything Disney has ever done.

On one level you could say it is for safety, but I can ride the Revolution at Blackpool, and Montezuma's Revenge at Knott's,  and they even have loops in them. AS far as the ride goes, my wife says it is not much different than a pirate ship.

Like I say, we are unlikely to enter again unless things are a walk on, or I want to take pics of Rat being built (I have pics of the cleared ground which I will get up later).

The verbal feedback I heard from various people there at the same time were not good. Whereas Capt Eo had a great response. Interesting. FWIW we made it a point to repeat Capt Eo

[davewasbaloo]

Oh, I should say, the soundtrack is very good too.

I will get a trip report and photos up, but in the meantime, here are the new barriers:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1 ... c92033e933

[Terkina]

The Barriers does'nt look nice.  I hope they fix it to something better soon.  [-o<

[penfold12]

Dave, great feedback. Whilst I am shocked regarding RC, overall correct me if I'm wrong, but you could see some value added to the park from TSPL?

I was/am in your camp with my thoughts on the area, but was interested to note that it seemed to appeal to your kids? I'm getting the feeling that an every day visitor (I mean that with respect, couldn't think of a better term) would be happy with the attractions that have been added?

[davewasbaloo]

Well, as I say, the greenery and levels, with a chance to explore are welcome, as I have been saying throughout. And I think some will enjoy, though some will likely enjoy anything Disney would produce.

I am ashamed to say (but I always promised the truth), my kids played with their Buzz and Woody toys for the first time in a while and wanted a Toy Story bedtime story tonight. So yes, I think it has an impact.

Though I did ask my kids whether they preferred TSPL or the new Wild Asia are at Chessington, and Wild Asia was the winner from both of them.

[CafeFantasia]

Here's a photo of Wild Asia at Chessington, which davewasbaloo keeps referring to. Personally I much prefer the look of Toy Story Playland :-)