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[Magic M]

*** Toy Story Land – The Case for the Defence ***

I've just read the last two pages of this thread and I've read almost nothing but negative comments.  Yes some of your comments are justified and indeed everyone has the right to an opinion – but I thought I would lay out a case for the defence.  Laying out all the pro's and commenting on some of your con's.

Firstly, please bear in mind that this is not just a new ride at the Studios park – this is a WHOLE NEW LAND!  When the Disney Studios were first opened the fan community slated the park for lacking any magic.  It had too many cold, bare buildings and lacked the heart and soul you expect from a Disney park.  Since then it has tried to expand and improve.

The addition of Tower of Terror was kind of a given but the expansion of the Animation Courtyard into the Toon Studio was a huge step forward.  Suddenly you had a park split down the middle.  Everything on the left side was "real life" movie studio and everything on the right was the world of cartoons.  The inclusion of "Finding Nemo" and "Cars" themed attractions and decorations quickly led to possibility of a full-on "Pixar Land".  Essentially what the Imagineers have done is take what was once a "serious" and indeed an "adult" park and keep sprinkling it with more and more child-friendly attractions until you have a park suitable for the whole family.

I don't think anyone expected the popularity of Crush's Coaster with kids as well as adults.  As such it quickly became one of DLRP's longest queues at any time of the year.   How do you solve this problem?  Simple.  Distract the kids with more and more shiny things!  Stitch Live, Playhouse Disney Live and now Toy Story Land.  But creating a whole new land with three – count them THREE – new rides, this can only ease the queues on the older rides.

Right I'm going to take some of your negatives one by one.  Please note these have been paraphrased somewhat...

"Grr!  How dare Disney give us some cheap, off the counter rides and theme them to look like toys!"

Ok guys, calm down.  In case you hadn't noticed, there is a major world financial crisis going on at the moment.  As such everyone is tightening their belts and that includes the House of Mouse – just count yourself lucky you can afford expensive trips to Disneyland anyway!

Yes the rides may be cheaper than you would normally expect from Disney and ok, maybe they are not custom made to Disney's specifications – but you THREE OF THEM!!  Three brand new rides in a themed area opening at the same time in practically unheard of.

Besides, are you seriously telling me that Disney has never bought an off the counter ride before?  Hello?!!  Crush's Coaster is a standard "Spinball Whizzer" spinning coaster with a few projectors and rubber shark that occasionally moves forwards.  Indiana Jones is a standard Wild Mouse coaster with a loop.  Orbitron, Dumbo Flyers, Flying Carpets – they are all just standard merri-go-round rides.  The difference is the theming!

Disney does theming like no-one else on the planet!  Yes these rides may be seen at other parks around the world – but where are you going to see them surrounded by giant toys and a scale that makes you feel like you are a monkey from the Barrel-o' looking up at god-like action figures?  The concept art (which is for Hong Kong remember so it could be slightly different) is packed with little Disney-details.  The Pixar Star Ball is there, the queue line for RC is a Scalextric (slot-car) track, you enter through a Barrel-o'-Monkeys and walk past ten-foot high steel jacks.   Ok this may not feel like you're walking onto a film set – but it will feel like you are in the Land of Toy Story!!

"Grr!!!  Look at that ugly steel coaster – it'll ruin the whole look of the Studio Park!"

Will it?  Will it really?  Ok how tall are you expecting this thing to be?  There is no way it'll be as tall as ToT.  I doubt it will be much higher than the Hollywood Facade.  In that case – will you see it at all?

From the entrance to Disney Studios you can see almost nothing of the rides awaiting within.  The only idea that anything lies beyond those big square lumps of terracotta is the Tower of Terror.  One of the reasons the Studios had very low attendance in its first year was that most parents felt the park didn't look very inviting or magical.  I doubt you will be able to see the ride dominating the skyline behind Studio 1 – but if it does... would that be a bad thing?

The whole concept of Toy Story Land is to bring more kids into the kid-friendly right-hand half of the park and to promote the latest Disney Pixar film.  Three new rides will do that!  Especially three new eye-catching rides with two of them dominating the skyline!

"Grr!!  Why don't they put in the Midtown Madness ride!"

This is a WHOLE NEW LAND they are constructing here – do you think that if it is successful then Disney will just leave it at that?  The rides they have built are based on Slinky Dog, RC Car and the plastic Army Men.  They have started with the minor characters – then they can add the major ones later!  To do it the other way round would lessen the lesser characters!

Rumours about dark rides have been brewing for years – Ratatouille, Little Mermaid, Winnie The Pooh – I personally think the age of the dark ride is over and it is time to try something different.

With Disney's Californian Adventure they tried to recreate the style of old fashioned fun-fairs on a grand Disney Scale.  I don't think that there is anything wrong with using traditional fun-fair rides as long as they are themed to fit it with the style.

"Grr!!  But they will look so out of place!"

Does a Victorian Carousel look out of place next to a Medieval Castle?  No.  They why would a whole load of new Pixar themed rides look out of place next to two other established Pixar themed rides?


I know this discussion is far from over – but I am genuinely excited about the whole concept.  I have taken the concept art and made it my PC background.  This will be a great expansion for the Disney Studios and anything that lessens the wait time on Crush's Coaster is good in my book!

[RnRCj]

I could contradict all of your comments Magic M, but I'd only be repeating things I've said before.

To answer you're question...

Ok how tall are you expecting this thing to be?

It's going to be 35 metres - about 115 feet. Please bear in mind that the mountain at Big Thunder is 119ft, so it's going to be pretty big.

[Anthony]

"Grr!!  Why don't they put in the Midtown Madness ride!"

I personally think the age of the dark ride is over and it is time to try something different.

That's where you lost me. Ride the trackless Winnie the Pooh, Monsters Inc in Tokyo or Indiana Jones Adventure (none of which I've had to fortune to do) and you'd probably see the age of the dark ride most certainly isn't over.

It's not a good idea to bring up the fact that DCA has Disney-themed fairground rides either, since they're now being rescued with... a dark ride!

And this "IT'S A WHOLE NEW LAND!" thing isn't really true, since if it were a whole new land (which it isn't, in WDS it'll be a forgiveable subland of Toon Studio, not tacked onto the side of Adventureland, a la Hong Kong), then it'd surely have a restaurant or shops or toilets or anything that shows Euro Disney SCA are willing to actually invest in the park.

As I've said before, I don't doubt that the park needs these three quick additions, more "Disney", more for younger kids and more continuous rides rather than shows -- the REAL test will be whether they're followed up by the Ratatouille (or other) dark ride we all want. If that doesn't happen, if they concentrate on renamed Restaurant en Coulisse to Restaurant de Studio 1 instead, then the park is 100% doomed.

[Reiana]

Aww come on, you can't judge a theme park by counting how many shops, restaurants and toilets there are. It's a theme park not a shopping center.
I agree toilets are important, but how many hours a day do you spend in restaurants or shops compared to the amount of time in rides.

I think, the whole problem with Toy Story Playland is, that it is about Toy Story. I agree there is a slightly overkill with Toy Story.
I'm not a very big fan of Toy Story, but I can live with it.
But if TSP would have been called Atlantica Playland (Ariel), Hundred Acre Wood Playland (as bad as TSP) or anything from any other Disney blockbuster movie, almost everbody would be ok with this land.

[davewasbaloo]

But if TSP would have been called Atlantica Playland (Ariel), Hundred Acre Wood Playland (as bad as TSP) or anything from any other Disney blockbuster movie, almost everbody would be ok with this land.

not me, I love Toy Story (in fact if it were pooh, I would hate it even more). for me, the problem is the canival rides and cheap theming that could be in any amusement park. Disney used to give us immersive adventures, not so much anymore (at least it looks like Hong Kong has a few things to look forward to that gives some faith).

this is a poor design choice on almost every single level. Heck, at least the cute and rubbish flik's Fune Faire has the excellent Tough to be a Bug as an anchor.

As for waiting, it is too late then. and the stupid economy remarks? Well building nothing there for now would be preferable. It is cheaper and easier to build something cool on a blank lot than be stuck with carnival rubbish for a long time.

This blows, and is probably the worst permanent thing I have ever seen planned for DLP ever (bearing in mind I still miss Le Visionarium, think Mission 2 is a far cry from the original SM and am not a fan of what they did to Cottonwood Creek).

[ed-uk]

Maybe people should compare Toy Story playland to Pocahontas Indian Village in Disneyland Park, which is just a playground with climping frames. TSP looks much more impressive than that. Walt Disney had carny rides in this theme park. I don't think I'll be spending much time in TSP, but if it proves popular with children then I think it will have achieved its goal. There wasn't enough in the studios for kids to go on, only Animagique and the Flying Carpets. And for any business cost does come into it. The flying Carpets, Dumbo and Orbitron are all the same ride, I know the themeing is different. At least in TSP we're going to see some unique rides to Disneyland Paris. To be fair Disney as a company has to move on, it can't stand still in the 60's and 70's.

[Anthony]

Aww come on, you can't judge a theme park by counting how many shops, restaurants and toilets there are. It's a theme park not a shopping center.
I agree toilets are important, but how many hours a day do you spend in restaurants or shops compared to the amount of time in rides.

Well amongst all the boo-hah about the theme (I completely agree that rather a lot of people slated it immediately because it's Pixar/Toy Story-themed), I thought that was a worthy argument to make.

I like the idea of the land, the concept art (yeah, shoot me), but Disney parks really need this filling, this glue between the attractions to function properly. Even Hong Kong have recognised this with a restaurant and/or boutique in each of their tiny new lands. Toon Studio has nothing! I can only hope the plan is that the supposed dark ride brings these with it, and that's why they aren't planning the same Toy Story boutique Hong Kong is.

On one hand we're being told Disney are forcing branding everywhere, on the other they're building a land themed to toys with absolutely no merchandise locations! It's very confusing.

Anyway, what is going on on the construction site?

[ed-uk]

HK Disneyland is tiny compared to Disneyland Paris and that's with the three new areas, if they ever get built, it's not certain they will. Disneyland Paris has a lot more going for it. At the studios they seem to be concentrating on the new rides which is right. But at the moment it's just a picture, I quess we'll have to wait and see how it turns out.

[pussinboots]

Aww come on, you can't judge a theme park by counting how many shops, restaurants and toilets there are. It's a theme park not a shopping center.
I agree toilets are important, but how many hours a day do you spend in restaurants or shops compared to the amount of time in rides.

Well amongst all the boo-hah about the theme (I completely agree that rather a lot of people slated it immediately because it's Pixar/Toy Story-themed), I thought that was a worthy argument to make.

I like the idea of the land, the concept art (yeah, shoot me), but Disney parks really need this filling, this glue between the attractions to function properly. Even Hong Kong have recognised this with a restaurant and/or boutique in each of their tiny new lands. Toon Studio has nothing! I can only hope the plan is that the supposed dark ride brings these with it, and that's why they aren't planning the same Toy Story boutique Hong Kong is.

On one hand we're being told Disney are forcing branding everywhere, on the other they're building a land themed to toys with absolutely no merchandise locations! It's very confusing.

Anyway, what is going on on the construction site?

To be honest, I spend a lot more time in restaurants and shops than I do on rides. But I do realize I'm not exactly the average Disney guest...

But even when I'm there with other, less boring people, we don't just hop from ride to ride, and I sincerely doubt that anyone does — well, except teenage boys. A Disney park is a complex experience. There's the basis of park atmosphere, that's what your day starts with and ends with. In between, there are thrills, sights, sounds, flavors, purchases, and the occasional pee. You need all of this. Toon Studio is evolving into a substantial land which still lacks a significant portion of those ingredients. Why?

As for the branding-sans-merchandise thing, while that's very true, I have a feeling we might be seeing the shelves of the Walt Disney Studios Store and Legends of Hollywood filled up with Toy Story paraphernalia soon. Think Constellations after Buzz Lightyear moved in.

[ed-uk]

Seriously though, how many shops and restaurants do you think the WDS needs from Disneys point of view. I'm not against a shop or restaurant in toy Story Playland, but do you think it would be a financial success at this point in time? So what if people have to walk to Legends of Hollywood or The Walt Disney store to get their Toy Story paraphernalia.

[pussinboots]

Seriously though, how many shops and restaurants do you think the WDS needs from Disneys point of view. I'm not against a shop or restaurant in toy Story Playland, but do you think it would be a financial success at this point in time? So what if people have to walk to Legends of Hollywood or The Walt Disney store to get their Toy Story paraphernalia.

Not to dwell on this subject, but do you really think it wouldn't be a financial success? Think of the crowds Crush draws to that area now, and imagine the situation once these rides open. It's not exactly a Pueblo Trading Post sort of deal.

It seems odd to me that Disney's money-making strategy is sometimes to open far too many shops, and at other times to open no shops at all. So which one works? It's quite mysterious. But anyway.

[The Butlin Boy]

More HKDL concept art:



http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2009/ ... twork.html

Come on DLP, where's our concept art? :roll:

[pussinboots]

/ But I'm sure we can't say anything about that giant yellow slide thing, because it hasn't been built yet, and we haven't seen it in person yet.

<bitter

[Anthony]

Just came back to post the same image. :wink:  It's just FRUSTRATING that there's all this concept art (the image looks to be a photoshop of several pieces) and DLP have released nothing. I mean, if there's a concern that announcing something might impact on current attendance, why would HKDL, the worst of the lot, make a big hoopla about it? *Insert something about Shareholders needing to be told here* Clearly there's still a few more hoops for Euro Disney SCA to jump through before it's signed and sealed, or they're ashamed of the plans themselves.

As for the images... well, at least the yellow track does look like proper Hot Wheels-style track, not bare steel coaster supports as feared for months.

I'm surprised to see that the Parachute Drop is shown with only two people per parachute, though. From one plan it had looked like there might be 3 seats, but obviously not. Two words: Capacity nightmare. The whole thing. We've said it before and we'll be saying it for the next 6 months.

[Aveen2008]

I really can help but dread this whole thing. Even that concept art looks really bad in my humble opinion. Is DLP definately getting this?