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[Anthony]

And would they play by the old rules and theme the hotel(s) to an area of the US? Remember the New Orleans rumors? And this convention center; will they go for the familiar tactic of attaching it to a hotel or will it be a separate thing? So many questions.

Was there ever anything behind the New Orleans rumours? As a theme it'd make complete sense, especially for the lakeside plot with shopping/dining on the ground floor, but hopefully it's not just our wishful thinking.

If they're only starting with one hotel, it depends which they pick. The lakeside hotel would surely have to be fully-themed, the other not so much. It also depends whether they're going to target it solely at convention business. One plus of those most recent plans is that the hotel seems to be separate, meaning it wouldn't be a no-go for regular park visitors.

And one more architectural quibble — wouldn't the French government have the final say on the expansion of the TGV station? Because that might be a little troubling.

I remember years ago seeing a concept drawing of it. All curvy roof and glassy walls, perhaps a bit of modern wood cladding too. Just like any other TGV station. I think that was still back when the car park next door was going to be unthemed though. Now that that's been built with American art deco touches, I don't know what they'd do...

Edit: Grandmath on DCP posted some good précisions about the hotel... It'll be the one on the left built in this phase, and though it'll be themed (most likely art deco to match the Parking/IMAX/Studios) it will certainly be more modern and business-orientated, with a direct link into the Convention Centre - though it will still be open for regular tourist business. For 100% Disney, we'll need to look to the lakeside hotel.

Also points out that the 20000 m² of the Convention Centre is smaller than the full build-out, which will be completed if it's a success. And confirms that the parking of the two new hotels will be underground.

In fact, after staring at the plan again, I noticed you can see the entrance/exit ramps leading off the middle road between the Convention Centre and Newport Bay Club:



I guess the parking will be beneath the grassy square there. Very nice.

[pussinboots]

Was there ever anything behind the New Orleans rumours? As a theme it'd make complete sense, especially for the lakeside plot with shopping/dining on the ground floor, but hopefully it's not just our wishful thinking.

If they're only starting with one hotel, it depends which they pick. The lakeside hotel would surely have to be fully-themed, the other not so much. It also depends whether they're going to target it solely at convention business. One plus of those most recent plans is that the hotel seems to be separate, meaning it wouldn't be a no-go for regular park visitors.

True, although I'm not sure that's a plus. And you made a point earlier on about the unlikelihood of quite that much Disney Village expansion, and indeed it would seem more typical of them to develop the hotel plot next to the convention center and aim all their efforts at catering to businessmen's wallets rather than building exciting new sights for Joe Disney Guest over at the Lake Disney plot...

But without that Lake Disney hotel, and especially without the connecting street in Disney Village, there would still be quite a bit of wasteland, and guest flow wouldn't improve much. (Although any pedestrian traffic at all between Val d'Europe and the parks would be a novelty, wouldn't it?)

The issue of guest flow around the resort is really interesting to me, because right now it's dire. People flock to the main street of Disney Village (which we need a name for,) often rendering it in complete gridlock, while the IMAX side is dead — and, something that doesn't help the former, a dead end. After the parks close, the RER station becomes one of those places people dash through with kung-fu grips on their wallets. Ditto for the esplanade with its vendors and machine guns. The Lake Disney area, though designed for recreation, only serves as more than a circular thoroughfare on the sunniest of days. All in all, a far cry from the pleasant urban hustle and bustle they were hoping for back in the early '90s.

I would love to see the heart of the resort develop into more than one claustrophobic street surrounded by things either utilitarian or barren.

I remember years ago seeing a concept drawing of it. All curvy roof and glassy walls, perhaps a bit of modern wood cladding too. Just like any other TGV station. I think that was still back when the car park next door was going to be unthemed though. Now that that's been built with American art deco touches, I don't know what they'd do...

I don't suppose that concept art is online anywhere, is it.

But it's not the French government anyway, it's the SNCF, isn't it. Unless that is government-owned, of course.

And to its credit, the SNCF has built some lovely stations this past decade or so. I was just worried they would want the thing to match the current station, and we would be in for a sort of replica of that misguided postmodern take on 19th century stations.

[pussinboots]

Edit: Grandmath on DCP posted some good précisions about the hotel... It'll be the one on the left built in this phase, and though it'll be themed (most likely art deco to match the Parking/IMAX/Studios) it will certainly be more modern and business-orientated, with a direct link into the Convention Centre - though it will still be open for regular tourist business. For 100% Disney, we'll need to look to the lakeside hotel.

Also points out that the 20000 m² of the Convention Centre is smaller than the full build-out, which will be completed if it's a success. And confirms that the parking of the two new hotels will be underground.

In fact, after staring at the plan again, I noticed you can see the entrance/exit ramps leading off the middle road between the Convention Centre and Newport Bay Club:

I guess the parking will be beneath the grassy square there. Very nice.

Wouldn't that be their second business-oriented art deco hotel then? But excellent idea about the parking. Rather extravagant, even. We can't have unsightly cars ruining the view, hide them underground! Perhaps they figured they can charge more for park views than parking lot views.

[Anthony]

True, although I'm not sure that's a plus.

Why's that? I was thinking more an eggs in basket situation, you don't want a very business-orientated hotel joined onto a convention centre if the convention centre (somehow) flops. Grandmath mentions there will be some kind of connection between the two.

Some very old plans from the late 90s attempt to get this off the ground showed the hall on the same spot but with a hotel built into it, surrounded on all sides by surface parking and very dislocated from the resort centre.

But without that Lake Disney hotel, and especially without the connecting street in Disney Village, there would still be quite a bit of wasteland, and guest flow wouldn't improve much. (Although any pedestrian traffic at all between Val d'Europe and the parks would be a novelty, wouldn't it?)

Now you mention it, guest flow would be awful. If people visiting the convention centre stayed anywhere other than the connected hotel, how would they get to it? The joining street will be very important, but could Euro Disney SCA really find the money to build it and be able to sign up enough tenants? I suppose by 2015 it's not impossible...

I was just worried they would want the thing to match the current station, and we would be in for a sort of replica of that misguided postmodern take on 19th century stations.

Funny you should say that. It's not the postmodern section, but in an old Cast Member magazine I got today there's a plan for this area I've never seen before, with a structure exactly like the RER one used for this second TGV entrance. Even better (or worse) it's shown next to a building marked "Animation Studios" for the feature animation department which was closed a few years later. Phew.

I've never been able to find that more recent concept again. Maybe I dreamt it. Even if I did, it was an inoffensive modern design, but would look out of place next to the art deco car park now.

Wouldn't that be their second business-oriented art deco hotel then?

Good point. I'm hoping for something more Pueblo Deco, Tower of Terror. More adult but warm and very yellow. I suppose Disney's Hollywood Hotel in Hong Kong could be a model, but I hope not.

[Willow]

I'd like to see a theme similar to the Alton Towers Hotel, which isn't too overpowering but still has the opportunity for Disney to add their little touches.

The theme is basically discovery and travel, where Sir Algenon has brought back various things from his travels around the world. I really believe that if Disney used a similar theme it would look fantastic.

I think it would fit pretty nicely with a conference centre.

[pussinboots]

Why's that? I was thinking more an eggs in basket situation, you don't want a very business-orientated hotel joined onto a convention centre if the convention centre (somehow) flops. Grandmath mentions there will be some kind of connection between the two.

Some very old plans from the late 90s attempt to get this off the ground showed the hall on the same spot but with a hotel built into it, surrounded on all sides by surface parking and very dislocated from the resort centre.

I just think it's about time they get back into the game of adding to the Disneyland Paris visible to guests. So much of what they've built these past two decades feels sectioned off, like revenue generators hidden from view. Which is exactly what this new hotel is, of course, but that doesn't mean it can't double as a Disney hotel, sport facilities open to all and be at home among the big seven hotels instead of tucked away on page 24 of the brochure in fine print. Hotel New York manages just fine as both a (slightly more formal) family hotel and a suit-and-tie affair.

And anyway, the site sits adjacent to the site of planned Disney Village expansions, so they'd be practically forced to incorporate it in some way.

Now you mention it, guest flow would be awful. If people visiting the convention centre stayed anywhere other than the connected hotel, how would they get to it? The joining street will be very important, but could Euro Disney SCA really find the money to build it and be able to sign up enough tenants? I suppose by 2015 it's not impossible...

Exactly. Without the second hotel and the expanded Disney Village, you get an odd and inconvenient gap in the lovely network of passageways they dreamed up in '04. Perhaps they'll build some of the paths with walls around them as they did for the IMAX and Vinci parking structure. In any case, the roundabout next to the IMAX needs to go.

Funny you should say that. It's not the postmodern section, but in an old Cast Member magazine I got today there's a plan for this area I've never seen before, with a structure exactly like the RER one used for this second TGV entrance. Even better (or worse) it's shown next to a building marked "Animation Studios" for the feature animation department which was closed a few years later. Phew.

I've never been able to find that more recent concept again. Maybe I dreamt it. Even if I did, it was an inoffensive modern design, but would look out of place next to the art deco car park now.

Yikes. The RER station is by far the worst part. All suburban RER stations are dreary and utilitarian. I think that what the SNCF fails to understand is that while their vandalism-proof, graffiti-proof station design might be an excellent fit for the type of banlieue where people torch cars, it isn't as necessary in places like Disneyland Paris, Val d'Europe or even Bussy-St-Georges. But I digress.
 

I'm hoping for something more Pueblo Deco, Tower of Terror. More adult but warm and very yellow. I suppose Disney's Hollywood Hotel in Hong Kong could be a model, but I hope not.

They might also look into the Ambassador in Tokyo, which is a little more formal. Although Hotel New York is a lot more interesting on the outside than either one. (And perhaps a little more dull on the inside.)

They could also just build another Hollywood Tower Hotel, but with actual rooms in it...

[Anthony]

About whether it's a business/tourist hotel, that's actually what I was trying to say. If it was fully connected to the convention centre, it might well be hidden from normal guests. So I agree with all of that. From the looks of the plans, it'll certainly be open for all.

I'd imagine with that location though, it could well be asking prices higher than New York. You'd be right in the middle of the new Disney Village, seconds from the parks but not locked inside them, as at Disneyland Hotel. So that's another discussion - what price market are they looking for with this new hotel? The location seems to demand high prices, but would they get takers? (Especially from businesses cutting back on things like travel expenses)
 

They could also just build another Hollywood Tower Hotel, but with actual rooms in it...

Yes please. Like a rival hotel. Maybe even use some touches from Florida's Tower?

But the Ambassador Hotel, which I've never really explored in detail before, looks literally spot on.



How did I miss this one... The circles, the columns. And the underlined signage (best I can describe it) is also exactly what they've got at NEX and the parking. I'd hope the blue be switched with a teal or red though, and a warmer yellow. It's a cold-looking hotel on the outside, but is exactly in the vein of Production Courtyard. Very very good call.

There's even a connection already there:



Boutique called "Festival Disney". It was meant to be!

http://www.disneyhotels.jp/dah/english/ ... html#lobby

[pussinboots]

About whether it's a business/tourist hotel, that's actually what I was trying to say. If it was fully connected to the convention centre, it might well be hidden from normal guests. So I agree with all of that. From the looks of the plans, it'll certainly be open for all.

Ah, I see, my apologies. I suppose we can expect something similar to the convention centers of Hotel New York and the Newport Bay Club, in that it will be separate but dressed up to match the hotel. (If you look at the 2004 plan, the convention center does appear to have decorative turrets of some kind.)

I'd imagine with that location though, it could well be asking prices higher than New York. You'd be right in the middle of the new Disney Village, seconds from the parks but not locked inside them, as at Disneyland Hotel. So that's another discussion - what price market are they looking for with this new hotel? The location seems to demand high prices, but would they get takers? (Especially from businesses cutting back on things like travel expenses)

Plus, again, no parking lot views. But you raise a good point. I don't know all the numbers, but surely it is the value and moderate price classes that are bursting at the seams and not the deluxe one? Santa Fe and Newport Bay Club in particular appear to be permanently in a sort of Christmas Eve frenzy.

And with 750 rooms, this new hotel is rather ambitious as well. (Hotel New York: 565, Disneyland Hotel: 496.)

On the bright side, if it is to be a ritzy affair, it might really gentrify that part of Disney Village, haha. If Disney functioned as a real city, there would be three Starbuckses, a Laura Ashley and a Ralph Lauren store in no time.

But the Ambassador Hotel, which I've never really explored in detail before, looks literally spot on.

How did I miss this one... The circles, the columns. And the underlined signage (best I can describe it) is also exactly what they've got at NEX and the parking. I'd hope the blue be switched with a teal or red though, and a warmer yellow. It's a cold-looking hotel on the outside, but is exactly in the vein of Production Courtyard. Very very good call.

It does seem to be a little obscure. The MiraCosta and that overbloated nightmare of a Tokyo Disneyland Hotel have overshadowed it with their pomp and splendor, while it really is quite stylish. It's also more subtle than the Hollywood Hotel in Hong Kong, which is clearly aimed at a lower common denominator. So yes, it would be great if it were their example.

I just hope they won't be infected by that craze of recent years to shape everything like Mickey Mouse's head. I doubt businessmen wish to wake up in Mickey Mouse sheets, open the Mickey Mouse curtains and turn a Mickey Mouse knob to a bathroom with a Mickey Mouse mirror over a Mickey Mouse sink.

[Timbo]

I was also thinking of the Ambassador style hotel would be perfect for this site,although the New York also has an Art Deco themeing ,the Ambassador seems to be more true to the style ,with more authentic detailing.It would fit perfectly with the Studios , though I think they would have to play down the Mickey themeing for Europe , which from what I have seen seems to be on every surface they could find !!! I'm sure it is just a cultural thing for the Japanese market !
The hotel was also designed by Robert Stern , who did the NBC , and is one of Disneys' favourite architects . He also did the Boardwalk in WDW which could be a good choice though a little too similar to the NBC.I'm sure it would be a 4* given the location and the chance to earn DLP more Euros !!!!

[Anthony]

I just hope they won't be infected by that craze of recent years to shape everything like Mickey Mouse's head

Oh yes, speaking my mind again. That's the only thing I didn't like from the Ambassador's website. The Tokyo Disneyland Hotel seems to suffer the same problem. Hopefully they'll get bored of drawing Mickey shapes by the time they've finished designing World of Disney.

On the bright side, if it is to be a ritzy affair, it might really gentrify that part of Disney Village, haha. If Disney functioned as a real city, there would be three Starbuckses, a Laura Ashley and a Ralph Lauren store in no time.

Lucky DLP wasn't built in the UK, or you'd have to throw in a Tesco Metro.

But yeah, I love the idea of this very multi-functioning space... a city-style Disney hotel. It'd be great if there were shops or restaurants on the ground floor opening out onto the new boulevard, or the hotel's own restaurants were opened up to become part of Disney Village. Maybe even something like a spa would be good here, since the only one at Disneyland Hotel is quite hard to reach. (I'd imagine...) The Village definitely needs more daytime activities.

[dagobert]

Are you talking about two different hotels? A convention center hotel behind the Vinci parking and another Disney hotel on the space between DV and NBC?

I thought that it will just be one big hotel with a convention center.

[pussinboots]

Are you talking about two different hotels? A convention center hotel behind the Vinci parking and another Disney hotel on the space between DV and NBC?

I thought that it will just be one big hotel with a convention center.

That's what it's starting to begin to look like. Grandmath's affirmation has been mildly reassuring.

I was also thinking of the Ambassador style hotel would be perfect for this site,although the New York also has an Art Deco themeing ,the Ambassador seems to be more true to the style ,with more authentic detailing.It would fit perfectly with the Studios , though I think they would have to play down the Mickey themeing for Europe , which from what I have seen seems to be on every surface they could find !!! I'm sure it is just a cultural thing for the Japanese market !
The hotel was also designed by Robert Stern , who did the NBC , and is one of Disneys' favourite architects . He also did the Boardwalk in WDW which could be a good choice though a little too similar to the NBC.I'm sure it would be a 4* given the location and the chance to earn DLP more Euros !!!!

Oh, it was Stern who did it? He's done excellent work. (Apart from one tiny glitch when he forgot to add about four zeros to the amount of square meters of the Newport Bay Club lobby.) They should commission him if he's still alive.

Yes, Hotel New York isn't really Art Deco in the proper sense of the word (which is, in this case, not really Art Deco at all but the Disney interpretation,) but Micheal Graves' modern take on Deco in which everything is either terra cotta or teal and looks "solid." Which I quite like, personally. Also, to get really obnoxiously semantic, the Ambassador is more Streamline Moderne. But potayto potahto.

But here's my thought. These two hotels would clearly be "twinned" in some way, sharing a courtyard and all. Dramatic ramifications! That means that the second hotel, the one facing Lake Disney, can't have a theme that clashes with the convention center hotel, and would also have to go with the Lake Disney setting and not look foreign right next to the Newport Bay Club. Would Art Deco accomplish all of this? Think of the stakes, people.

Lucky DLP wasn't built in the UK, or you'd have to throw in a Tesco Metro.

But yeah, I love the idea of this very multi-functioning space... a city-style Disney hotel. It'd be great if there were shops or restaurants on the ground floor opening out onto the new boulevard, or the hotel's own restaurants were opened up to become part of Disney Village. Maybe even something like a spa would be good here, since the only one at Disneyland Hotel is quite hard to reach. (I'd imagine...) The Village definitely needs more daytime activities.

Precisely. A cafe would be welcome too, as would a moderately-priced-but-not-crappy restaurant like the food court at the Grand Californian.

[Timbo]

I know the location on Lake Disney kind of makes an Art Deco Ambassador style hotel , difficult to fit in ,which is why I thought something like the Boardwalk might be a better choice ;if they did it with all the shops and restaurants on the lakeside it could link in to Disney Village quite well.But then this is DLP so it will probally be done on the cheap , with a huge rebuild a few years later to fix it !!! :roll:

[Martyn]

Sorry but I really dont have the time to read through ts topic, but whats all this hotel talk about?

Any other improvements I should no about from February time? I know about Starbucks and the Carousel finally going!yay!

[Anthony]

No other improvements since those, it's gone a bit quiet.

This might explain the hotel talk, it's connected to plans for a convention centre: http://www.dlrptoday.com/2009/11/04/for ... -projects/