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[DopeyDad]

All for differing opinion Dagobert and I personally agree with the general take on this topic, I just feel that it was the generalisations about fans, new fans and Europeans that started the TSPL topic becoming a bit silly. I'm sure it won't happen this time.

[littlemermaid83]

I think I would of perferred a proper refub of the hotel then a new poster and bedsheets.

[davewasbaloo]

I think I would of perferred a proper refub of the hotel then a new poster and bedsheets.

Absolutely

[Riebi]

I think this European Fan base thing is a wrong point. It´s a very american view and it´s the kind of view that just say: "This stupid european don´t understand OUR Disney". And yes maybe they don´t that deep in disney or maybe they aren´t that loud and noisy with their protest, collection of signatures etc. etc. but that doesn´t mean that they don´t know something about disney quality. Mostly this "European thing" comes along with "cheap attractions" at WDS. But is this park loved, successfull, high attended by the European fan base and other european guests? No it isn´t. In a Disney view it´s an absolutly low attended park. Lower then other smaller park resorts at Europe. Lower then Europa Park. So what the "american fan base" has to understand is simply: The European don´t make noise. They don´t make big events again a Disney decision. They just don´t go into the park/hotel/attraction. They just leave disney. And why? I think BECAUSE Disney is not an european company (so they don´t care) and BECAUSE there is a big american fan base that let the european fans always know about the owner of Disney.

But now back on topic! It was not about kids and not about european fans (and not about TSPL which doesn´t look that evil to me  :lol: )

It was about Santa Fee is now Cars Hotel. And about the change of theming. Making good things cheap instead of a proper renovation to get again to better hotel standards and about decoration a themed hotel with aging products just because a wrong marketing brain think that this would attract people (and I can say such thinks cause I´m a marketing and communication brain   )

[dagobert]

I think I would of perferred a proper refub of the hotel then a new poster and bedsheets.

Definately. But I think that Euro Disney SCA doesn't have the money to do a proper refurb, since they are already refurbishing the Sequoia Lodge.

[davewasbaloo]

BTW - I have lived in Europe for 24 years now, 2/3rds of my life. It is not a nationalism thing. In terms of Anaheim, we segment the So Cal Market, the West Coast Market and the rest. In Orlando, it is the heartland vs. International market analysis. In Japan they stratify the Office Ladies as a significant market, Tokyo market and Japanese market. HKDL looks at local vs. mainland vs. Australian.

Yet for some reason fans get riled up about talking about European markets. I really do not get the problem with that.

And is it not better to speak up and try to get Disney to change rather than just walk away? What kind of fan would want to do that?

[Riebi]

I don´t think that the hard fan base (people here at the forum) just walk away but I think most visitors aren´t that interested in this big discussions we have here. They just got to the parks or not. If they don´t have the high quality disney expierence they don´t eat the cookie (WDS). If they like it they will stay for diner (DLP). Most people would prefer Europa Park instead of WDS but DLP instead of Europa Park. That´s because the quality of theming/of the stage.

Same for the Hotels. Most people would prefer Colosseo Hotel instead of Hotel New York but Disneyland Hotel instead of Colosseo. It´s not about Disney for the most european theme park visitors it´s only about quality. (Why supporting a US company if the quality isn´t that WOW DISNEY MAGIC EXPIRIENCE) They have to raise the quality of the hotels not retheme them. The theming is wonderful. But the quality is nineties and french.

The Disney Hotels have a problem that can´t get fixed with some character overlays. (And for the market analysis: I don´t think Disney have ever get the "european marked" that well. They dissapointed the europeans with WDS. They haven´t get the marked in 1992. And maybe today they even get it. In the same way they made their mistakes at japan and Hong Kong (not knowing that it´s a group of people that loves to buy souvenirs).)

So for the Disney hotels they have to do more. For this "European"/"American" fan thing: it´s just not true that europeans don´t want the disney quality and everyone can see that soo clearly by the attendance of WDS.

[dagobert]

I don´t think that the hard fan base (people here at the forum) just walk away but I think most visitors aren´t that interested in this big discussions we have here. They just got to the parks or not. If they don´t have the high quality disney expierence they don´t eat the cookie (WDS). If they like it they will stay for diner (DLP). Most people would prefer Europa Park instead of WDS but DLP instead of Europa Park. That´s because the quality of theming/of the stage.

Same for the Hotels. Most people would prefer Colosseo Hotel instead of Hotel New York but Disneyland Hotel instead of Colosseo. It´s not about Disney for the most european theme park visitors it´s only about quality. (Why supporting a US company if the quality isn´t that WOW DISNEY MAGIC EXPIRIENCE) They have to raise the quality of the hotels not retheme them. The theming is wonderful. But the quality is nineties and french.

The Disney Hotels have a problem that can´t get fixed with some character overlays. (And for the market analysis: I don´t think Disney have ever get the "european marked" that well. They dissapointed the europeans with WDS. They haven´t get the marked in 1992. And maybe today they even get it. In the same way they made their mistakes at japan and Hong Kong (not knowing that it´s a group of people that loves to buy souvenirs).)

So for the Disney hotels they have to do more. For this "European"/"American" fan thing: it´s just not true that europeans don´t want the disney quality and everyone can see that soo clearly by the attendance of WDS.

The Disney hotels definately have a big problem concerning room standards. If these hotels wouldn't be at a Disney resort, nobody would stay there, at least not for the prices charged. Disney has to take a huge amount of money to bring European standard to the hotels.

I don't know many people personally that go to Disney on a regular basis. Friends of us did go and they introduced us to Disney, but they quit, because they think the money isn't worth what they get. They are Europeans and they care a lot about Disney, and I also think that WDS shows that people are aware of the bad quality of the park.

But it is true that the fan base in Europe isn't as strong as in the US. There they had 50 years to grow. DLP opened 1992 to a bigger crowd. The next thing is that DLP is controlled by two companies. First there is TWDC that still has a lot to say and second there is Euro Disney SCA who runs the resort. So maybe that makes it more complicate to cater what the guests want. But it is also sad, that Disney has no ear for their fans.
Malin wrote in the D23 thread that when Disney announced the Fantasyland expansion that the fans there didn't react happily. Maybe they realized it, because now the plans are changing. Hopefully the same will happen with the Santa Fe hotel.

[pussinboots]

I think most Europeans instinctively know Disney quality from Disney garbage; they just don't haven't thrown themselves into the matter as much as we or Southern Californians have and therefore can't put their finger on the issue. My dad for instance is always saying how much better he liked the resort in 1993; he just thinks it's because he's not seeing it with fresh eyes anymore. And I doubt that The Little Mermaid II has been selling very well, to name but another example.

Anyway, with the exception of the fairly adequately maintained Disneyland Hotel, I don't really think they are interested in improving the hotels or even bringing them up to standard. One can get air conditioning, WiFi, hair dryers and coffee facilities now in the sort of motels that give away Campanile restaurant fliers, but not at Disney hotels. The Newport Bay Club is bursting at the seams and desperately needs a remodel, heck it needs a new lobby. And the Santa Fe, a hotel that if situated elsewhere could charge €40 a night, is so hideously substandard and derelict now that they should be thinking of rebuilding parts of it. (The theme funnily enough was just about the only thing that wasn't wrong with it.) But that's not going to happen, because it's already getting a new billboard and some new sheets.

But hey, it's a company and if people are willing to pay then blah blah blah.

[mattboywonder]

Don't forget that Route 66 is a part of the Santa Fe's theme so 'Cars' fits in pretty well

[pussinboots]

Don't forget that Route 66 is a part of the Santa Fe's theme so 'Cars' fits in pretty well

Route 66 also reached Chicago... But they could have at least snuck Lightning McQueen into the motif in a convincingly southwestern manner. Those bedsheets are about 90% Cars and 10% Santa Fe, and the themes don't manage to blend at all.
That billboard is about as subtle as a billboard. And we haven't seen the shower curtains yet.

[Festival Disney]

:?




Source: Disney Central Plaza's Facebook & relevent thread on their forum

[Reiana]

Now i knw what's wrong with this picture. It's not the missing Clint. It's the colors. Look at the bright and shiny colors from McQueen and Sally then compare it to the buliding.
Santa Fe looks washed out and really, really, really needs a repaint.

Billborad - new
Hotel - old

Pretty bad combination :?

Btw. I still don't like it  

[Martyn]

Hmm....this is bit like TSPL for me.

It will be popular, and kids will love it, but I still prefer the non-film Disney, such as Discoveryland, Space Mountain, Frontierland etc. Same with all the Hotels, they're fantastically original, and so unique, yet these garish themes completley ruin it.

[dagobert]

I think most Europeans instinctively know Disney quality from Disney garbage; they just don't haven't thrown themselves into the matter as much as we or Southern Californians have and therefore can't put their finger on the issue. My dad for instance is always saying how much better he liked the resort in 1993; he just thinks it's because he's not seeing it with fresh eyes anymore. And I doubt that The Little Mermaid II has been selling very well, to name but another example.

Anyway, with the exception of the fairly adequately maintained Disneyland Hotel, I don't really think they are interested in improving the hotels or even bringing them up to standard. One can get air conditioning, WiFi, hair dryers and coffee facilities now in the sort of motels that give away Campanile restaurant fliers, but not at Disney hotels. The Newport Bay Club is bursting at the seams and desperately needs a remodel, heck it needs a new lobby. And the Santa Fe, a hotel that if situated elsewhere could charge €40 a night, is so hideously substandard and derelict now that they should be thinking of rebuilding parts of it. (The theme funnily enough was just about the only thing that wasn't wrong with it.) But that's not going to happen, because it's already getting a new billboard and some new sheets.

But hey, it's a company and if people are willing to pay then blah blah blah.

It is so sad that the Disney hotels in Paris have such a bad standard. If the hotel, like you mentioned, would be somewhere else nobody would pay such prices. Disney shouldn't change the theme, they should improve the hotel. I wonder that Disney isn't ashamed of the low quality of their hotels. Just look at the hotel rating sites. The Paris Disney hotels don't get good ratings, but the partner hotels do. I really can pass on the EMH to get a better hotel for a lower price, since DLP is just opening a few rides in Fantasyland and Discoveryland.

I hope that the Disney hotels will not lose their guests to other hotels. Otherwise it will be hard to make money.