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[king_spoon_ian]

Well, I'm afraid it's already caused one with me, and several people I know.

Can I ask what problems it caused you?

I mean it's caused a problem, as in, I have a problem with it. I don't like the idea of an elitist system like this, and as I said, nor do several people I've spoken to about it.

I don't see any problems with this system, because most of the guests will not buy this VIP Fastpass

I guess the problem is that they're offering a two-tier system like this in the first place.

This is not something entirely new, they've been offering a VIP Fastpass for quite some time to Castle/Empire State Club and Suites guests in the Disneyland Hotel and Hotel New York.

But for some reason, that seems different. Offering it as a bonus to someone who's staying on a certain floor of a hotel seems to be more reasonable than just putting it on general sale, for only the richest of people to buy. I'd imagine it works out a lot cheaper that way - and it's also limited in number.

Legoland use the Q-bot system, which is so much better than a normal Fasttrack. They have easily got one of the best systems available. Disney should definitely use it as a replacement to Fastpass, and totally different to this new VIP Fastpass.

Why should Disney should replace the free, and accessible fastpass system with a system that costs £10 per person? More to the point, why would you want them to do that. (It's that two-tier thing, again)

I have no issues with people skipping queues ... Its not affecting me.

I'm... a bit lost. How is someone skipping a queue not going to affect you? If someone skips a queue, they'll be in front of you, so you'll queue for longer?

I couldn't care less if a few hundred more people have a VIP Fastpass, they aren't going to dramatically increase queue times.

What if 100 of them hit Peter Pan at the same time? The fast pass would be out the door.

[Willow]

Its all about queue management. Some parks do it well, others don't. Its a fine line to tread.

THORPE PARK are a good example of bad queue management, they vastly over-sell fasttrack tickets, therefore stand-by lines are terrible on busy days.
Legoland have very low capacity rides so things like Q-bots increase queue times significantly.
Disney have fantastically high capacity rides and can deal with things like VIP fastpass, they aren't going to affect queues too much.

[LilysDad]

If people feel very strongly about it and want to influence how DLRP is run, then they should consider becoming shareholders. As a part-owner of the business you then have the right to make your point to the management and stress that you understand the need to increase revenue for debt repayment/future investment but that your views are that this is not an acceptable way to do it.
In fact, you could go one step further and start some form of petition ...

[Anthony]

For me the biggest threat to Fastpass and the general enjoyment of those attractions is not this deal of a VIP ticket for €100 -- which, though being the first step in a slippery slope, will itself only increase ticket holders by about 0.1% -- but those blank dummy tickets that let you collect Fastpasses forever (no end date) that are now literally everywhere...



All around the Fastpass areas, for sale on eBay at stupid prices... I see more and more people each time with these unlimited use collection tickets. It's awful. Can't they just be voided from the system? Where do they even come from, the print-at-home tickets?

While the resort just turn a blind eye to this, Fastpass is already a pay system.

[Kristof]

And don't forget used park tickets can still print Fast Passes.

[paul]

And don't forget used park tickets can still print Fast Passes.

THAT's the biggest risk then... and an even easier one for the park to put a stop to... think how many thousands of these go into circulation every day!

[Owain]

Where do they even come from, the print-at-home tickets?

While the resort just turn a blind eye to this, Fastpass is already a pay system.

If this is the right ticket, my friends was given one on our last trip. All our tickets worked at RnRC except his, so the guy gave him a few of them. Although later on his ticket did work so we had a few of these.

[Agent Lex]

Can I ask what problems it caused you?

I mean it's caused a problem, as in, I have a problem with it. I don't like the idea of an elitist system like this, and as I said, nor do several people I've spoken to about it.

So it's not caused any actual problem, then, so much as you just strongly disagree with it?

This is not something entirely new, they've been offering a VIP Fastpass for quite some time to Castle/Empire State Club and Suites guests in the Disneyland Hotel and Hotel New York.

But for some reason, that seems different. Offering it as a bonus to someone who's staying on a certain floor of a hotel seems to be more reasonable than just putting it on general sale, for only the richest of people to buy. I'd imagine it works out a lot cheaper that way - and it's also limited in number.

Yes, because most families of four going to DLRP are able to afford Castle Club rooms. We just all choose to stay in the Cheyenne for the theming!
It's already an elitist system that favours those with boatloads of cash. The only difference is that this is a direct sale, but it's still basically being offered to the same class.

Legoland use the Q-bot system, which is so much better than a normal Fasttrack. They have easily got one of the best systems available. Disney should definitely use it as a replacement to Fastpass, and totally different to this new VIP Fastpass.

Yes. Disney should replace the free, and accessible fastpass system with a system that costs £10 per person (!) Why would they, or should they do that? More to the point, why would you want them to do that. (It's that two-tier thing, again)

This, I can't disagree with, though it's tangential to the point. The free fastpass system is unique to Disney, and a big draw for a lot of families.

I have no issues with people skipping queues ... Its not affecting me.

How exactly is someone skipping a queue not going to affect you. If someone skips a queue, they'll be in front of you, so you'll queue for longer. If one person does it, it may not affect you much, but it'll still affect you.

Because normal fastpass isn't queue skipping, it's "virtual queueing"! What rubbish, normal fastpass lines skip the queue as well, yet nobody has a problem with this.

I couldn't care less if a few hundred more people have a VIP Fastpass, they aren't going to dramatically increase queue times.

But they will increase the queuing times, no matter how slightly. And it greatly depends on the ride. What if 100 of them hit Peter Pan at the same time? The fast pass would be out the door.

And what are the chances of that happening? About the only time I can see this situation occuring is if people like you all got together, bought these tickets, and did it just to "show how broken the system is". Ironically, giving Disney your money for the pleasure, and increasing sales of the product you dislike.

I guess if you can't see the problem with a two tier, and elitist system like this, then I won't be able to change your mind.

"Because I have no valid or acceptable points beyond screaming 'elitism!'"

But it is wrong

"Because I say so!"

and it will cause problems - either through too many people buying it

Too many people buying what you already consider a prohibitively expensive item that separates park guests by class?

or through people just ending up feeling bad that they can't afford to provide their family with as good a day at Disneyland as the other, richer people.

Provided they know about this system. I doubt it will be heavily advertised outside of the hotels where it's being offered, if only so that the system isn't flooded with fastpasses. Though I don't know of any limit there may be on these (and there might be one we don't know about), I imagine Disney are surely aware of the problems that would be caused by issuing too many. Unless you were at the front of the line for Buzz and suddenly some city banker and his family come along, flashing their VIP fastpasses all over the place and lording it over everyone, I doubt you'd even be aware of these guests, so you wouldn't feel bad about it. And I'd argue that's more a problem with those people than it is with the system.

In the end, don't forget that this is a trial. If it doesn't do well, and the few points you did manage to muster all happen to be its downfall, then it won't be continued. If it does do well, earns Disney some extra money (that, as has been said, they can invest into upkeep or new attractions making everyone's experience better) then it will carry on, likely silently to most guests.

[paul]

If there was a post of the month award, I'd be recommending that one for it!  =D>

[davewasbaloo]

I really wish they would get rid of FP altogether, it really does harm the overall park experience. I thought that many years ago when they trialled it at ALton Towers (2 years before Disney), and I had it confirmed last year. Last August, we were in the Studios when they were testing FP on Crush Coaster. On one day that they were not testing it, the standby for Crush was 60 mins, Cars 15, Tram Tour 15, ToT 10, and RNRC a walk on. The park was pleasant, and the shops and counter service restaurants were moderately crowded.

Fastforward 2 days, we went to the Studios (I had it confirmed the crowd levels through the gate was similar). They were testing FP. Studio 1 was very crowded. Standby for Crush was 1hour 45 min, Tram tour, 40, TOT 60, Cars 40, and RNRC 25. It was the same time frame as well, as Moteurs Action was not interferring. The shops and restaurants were rammed, and the tempers were riding high.

We got in line for FPs, the clock said return time 1pm. we waited 20 mins for FP's and when we finally got them, they were for 4pm which clashed with our dining reservations at Walt's. So we didn't go on Crush.

Bottom line, this proved to me the negative impact FP has on the parks, and the fact they ran several tests during peak and off peak last year, and abandoned the idea of introducing FP to Crush demonstrates the concept is flawed. And now we are getting some carnival rides to up capacity in the area....ughhhhhhhhh

[Willow]

Fastpass works fine on high capacity rides.

Crush would never work with Fastpass, it was a silly idea to even trial in.

[Agent Lex]

I don't normally like doing play-by-play counterpoint posts, but I thought I'd follow your style. By the way, thanks for the recognition of thinking I'm a good poster on here, though I'd disagree

The one counterpoint I'll make right now is that there's a difference between having a problem with something, and something causing a problem. To make a comparison, it's like saying that shoe polish comes from Poland. You know, because it's polish.

Right now I'm honestly quite tired, and I had a big argument earlier this evening, so I'm not going to present a full argument back. But I may do tomorrow, or some time later. That said, I do enjoy how you reduced my second to final paragraph, where I made the argument that a) they could well be limited in number like hotel suites, and b) Disney is well aware of the potential problems with wait times that this could cause, to one line.

[Anthony]

The Disney office in the Netherlands have a Twitter and they've just posted these details:

Disneyland Paris will test the sale of Premium FASTPASS tickets at the Disneyland Hotel's Guest Services desk from 18 July to 4 August 2009

Premium FASTPASS is a fee paying service: 80 euros per person/day.It will be presented via a dated ticket valid from 10:30 am for one person

It will provide access to FASTPASS wait-lines wherever applicable. No more than 160 Premium FASTPASS tickets will be sold per day.

It does not replace the existing FASTPASS service which is free, and that we will continue to provide for all guests.

So the dates now look to be 18th July to 4th August, and here's the very important point - no more than 160 Premium FASTPASS tickets will be sold per day. That still sounds like a LOT to me, I doubt they'd even sell 16, but it's good news they're putting a cap on this test.

[Willow]

160 is nothing, it shouldn't affect the queues too much.
The only problem would be if they all descended on Peter Pan's Flight at the same time.

Its a premium product so its right for them to limit the number to only 160, keeps its more exclusive.
I can't see them selling 160.

[kmara]

wow, I just did some calculating and - gee - how much extra money they would make with hardly no extra effort if they sell 160 fp per day (I don't think they will though)!