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[Aurora]

Not sure what to think about. I think I don`t like the car theme in the hotel. I also don`t like a hotel to be a character/movie-theme. I like characters, but in the parks.
And that billboard up there looks like it has not been finished, might as well have left Clint up there.
Santa Fe was also our first Disney Hotel.
Aurora

[dagobert]

I think we can see a trend, and it is a worrisome one. Hence perhaps my passionate slating of TSPL. Look at it in the whole. When DL opened in 1955, there were very few characters at all, and as a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's, they were a very small part of the Disney experience. Now people focus on them and I think it is killing the parks.

Which is more unique - a barbershop quartet or a spotty teenager dressed up as Mickey Mouse?

Whilst I agree that having characters involved in every ride/hotel is not good, the majority of original DLP rides are based on them. Non character rides are great, such as TOT (which is still based on a TV show), but it is logical to relate rides and characters/movies together at DLP. Also, with regards to the reflection on the Pixar movies and characters, it is also logical to use them and not the older characters, as they are more well known these days and are key to marketing a new ride. Would a ride with Chip and Dale have the same appeal as a Pixar one?

However, I do think that they need to be subtle with the theming - that bedspread is a bit OTT!

Then why is Disney still doing attractions like Mystic Manor or Grizzly Trail. I don't think that it needs toons to promote new rides. As long as it is a great themed attraction it doesn't need a character tie in.

Oh by the way, do you know what most kids today also haven't heard of? Fantasia. Very few daycare centers play that DVD. The pacing is too slow and there isn't enough dialog. I suppose that's bad news for the Disneyland Hotel, then.

I haven't stayed in the DL hotel until now, but it is one of the most beautiful disney hotels. But if Disney is going to change this hotel, that would be the worst thing ever done by Disney.

God I wish Disney would raise their standards just a little bit.

I would say it needs more than just a little bit.

I think we have to change our view of Disney. This is the Disney(land) for the next (3D/CGI/Pixar) generation.
The 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s are over. To all who are born in this years, we have to accept that we are the "old" generation.
Disney is moving on, maybe in the wrong direction. Maybe the have to learn their lesson.
I think we have to accept it, if we want it or not. The old Disney times are over. We can complain about it and hope Disney is willing to hear, but I think we can't change it. If we can't accept it, we have to leave Disney alone.

I think you are right about the view we have on Disney. Disney of today is about franchises and they want to make the most money with their products. When I first entered the world of Disney, especially the themeparks, I was happy with nearly anything Disney did. As long as it was done by Disney it was fine for me, even it was bad from today's point of view.

Then after visiting WDW everything changed for me. I was so disappointed by the Magic Kingdom and I realized what a great park DLP is. Then I started to read nearly everything about the company. One book, it is called "Disney War" showed a person, Roy E. Disney, that really cared about the company. He criticized nearly everything that was done, because it was done in a very cheap way and didn't live up to the Disney standard. He tried to change it, but he think he failed, because at the moment, especially in Paris, everything is done in a cheap way and in my opinion it doesn't live up to the Disney standard.

Now they are replacing the Clint Eastwood billboard. Okay that's fine from a marketing point of view, but I'm not sure what the original architect would say. I think none of the Disney hotels in Paris are designed by WDI, they only were involved in the DL Hotel.
They even don't repaint the billboard. That would be too expensive. They are using a prefabricated sheet that is just placed over Clint. So maybe it is just there for a short time whilst they are refreshing the paint of the Clint Eastwood billboard. I really really hope that this is going to happen!! [-o<

Reiana, I really hope you are right that they will learn their lesson and return to the Disney way. People aren't stupid and after a certain point they realize that it is the quality that brings them back to Disney. As long as the hotel rooms don'T get a refurbishment people will not return there just because of a new poster.

[Riebi]

I really really really can´t understand this change. I think it´s cheap, odd and dated in the same way. The disney hotels have all detailed themes - they don´t need another. Why taking something timless and make it aging? Why taking a mexico style disney hotel and change it into a toony rubber cars hotel? If we see the Disney Hotels in the same way as the Disneyland Park as a stage where Cast Members act (and of course also disney characters) I ask myself why is the stage now the character? There´s now no room for own imagination. It´s a hard set of cars characters. It´s OK to like a Mexico/Santa Fee theme or to hate it. But change it into Cars?? It will have the same problem: you like cars or not. AND it will be very very dated after some years and after another Pixar movie.

The change of theming of disney hotels is for me an absolute wrong step. And by the way: I don´t like this "Children will love it" discussion. Sure my little second cousin will love it. But I think we talking here about a family resort. Isn´t at DLP any room for older disney fans? I mean it´s me paying my own vacation at Disney. And I wan´t not to see just cute kiddy things with toon themes everywhere. I want Main Street, Adventureland, Frontierland, Discoveryland, Newport Bay Club, Sequoia Lodge, Santa Fee and NOT Mary Poppins Street, Jack Sparrow Land, Woodys RoundUp Land, Buzz Land, Donalds Beach Club, Bambi´s Wooden Hotel, Carshotel....I just want a high quality themed stage for my visit. Don´t let the characters be the stage.

[davewasbaloo]

Don´t let the characters be the stage.

Best line so far this month, if not this year. Totally agree.

[dagobert]

I really really really can´t understand this change. I think it´s cheap, odd and dated in the same way. The disney hotels have all detailed themes - they don´t need another. Why taking something timless and make it aging? Why taking a mexico style disney hotel and change it into a toony rubber cars hotel? If we see the Disney Hotels in the same way as the Disneyland Park as a stage where Cast Members act (and of course also disney characters) I ask myself why is the stage now the character? There´s now no room for own imagination. It´s a hard set of cars characters. It´s OK to like a Mexico/Santa Fee theme or to hate it. But change it into Cars?? It will have the same problem: you like cars or not. AND it will be very very dated after some years and after another Pixar movie.

The change of theming of disney hotels is for me an absolute wrong step. And by the way: I don´t like this "Children will love it" discussion. Sure my little second cousin will love it. But I think we talking here about a family resort. Isn´t at DLP any room for older disney fans? I mean it´s me paying my own vacation at Disney. And I wan´t not to see just cute kiddy things with toon themes everywhere. I want Main Street, Adventureland, Frontierland, Discoveryland, Newport Bay Club, Sequoia Lodge, Santa Fee and NOT Mary Poppins Street, Jack Sparrow Land, Woodys RoundUp Land, Buzz Land, Donalds Beach Club, Bambi´s Wooden Hotel, Carshotel....I just want a high quality themed stage for my visit. Don´t let the characters be the stage.

Maybe Disney is doing that to connect the hotel with the upcoming Cars 2 movie.

That also annoys me that it is all just about children. Disney is made for everyone. Disney could make so much more money when they are doing offers for couples without children. They have so much more money to spend.
Sometimes you get the feeling that you aren't welcomed at Disneyland when you don't have kids.

Off topic: For example once we were lining up to see the parade and it got very crowded, but some families thought that their kids are more important than us. I don't mind to let their kids standing in front of me to see, but I really got angry when the parents also tried to get in front of us.

[davewasbaloo]

What annoys me is how much it changed. When I was a kid growing up in Disneyland, it was the Jungle Cruise, PotC, Haunted Mansion, and Tomorrowland that really got me excited, and inspired me to go and read and learn about history, geography and science. Disney has forgotten how to inspire, and the public are becoming more dumb too (not everyone thank goodness).

When I took my wife on her first trip to DLP in 1999, she fell in love with the place. So much so we bought our first APs that year (and every year since). One year before we had kids, we went to DLP every 6 - 8 weeks, and had a great time with fine dining, dancing in the Village (Billy Bobs, Central Stage, Rock n Roll America, Huricanes), I would have a shave and a hair cut at Main Street (they had 2 barbers then).  It was awesome, and although friends would question why we went without kids, we would take some of them and they would fall in love too.

We honeymooned in WDW for 2 weeks, and again enjoyed the more adult offerings - Pleasure Island, Boardwalk, fireworks dinner at the California Grill, Victoria and Alberts, being in the Tapestry of Nations parade during the guest interaction bit, took part in the education programmes in Epcot and DAK, it was an amazing vacation (we returned a couple of years ago, and like DLP they have fully dumbed down the place).

Yet in the 45-50 years where characters were a small part, the parks had been wildly popular with all generations. TSPL really is the antithesis of the Disney experience - exposed, low capacity carnival rides that many are too short or too big for, with monster queues because they do not have the capacity of signature Disney attractions. The slope is slippery, it started in 2000, started to get really worse in 2005 and is getting worse all the time.

[davewasbaloo]

I don't think I could imagine doing DIsney the way my wife and I did 10 years ago - it has skewed too much to little ones (heck, even my 7 year old feels he is outgrowing some of the attractions).

[dagobert]

What annoys me is how much it changed. When I was a kid growing up in Disneyland, it was the Jungle Cruise, PotC, Haunted Mansion, and Tomorrowland that really got me excited, and inspired me to go and read and learn about history, geography and science. Disney has forgotten how to inspire, and the public are becoming more dumb too (not everyone thank goodness).

When I took my wife on her first trip to DLP in 1999, she fell in love with the place. So much so we bought our first APs that year (and every year since). One year before we had kids, we went to DLP every 6 - 8 weeks, and had a great time with fine dining, dancing in the Village (Billy Bobs, Central Stage, Rock n Roll America, Huricanes), I would have a shave and a hair cut at Main Street (they had 2 barbers then).  It was awesome, and although friends would question why we went without kids, we would take some of them and they would fall in love too.

We honeymooned in WDW for 2 weeks, and again enjoyed the more adult offerings - Pleasure Island, Boardwalk, fireworks dinner at the California Grill, Victoria and Alberts, being in the Tapestry of Nations parade during the guest interaction bit, took part in the education programmes in Epcot and DAK, it was an amazing vacation (we returned a couple of years ago, and like DLP they have fully dumbed down the place).

Yet in the 45-50 years where characters were a small part, the parks had been wildly popular with all generations. TSPL really is the antithesis of the Disney experience - exposed, low capacity carnival rides that many are two short or two big for, with monster queues because they do not have the capacity of signature Disney attractions. The slope is slippery, it started in 2000, started to get really worse in 2005 and is getting worse all the time.

That's very well said. Wasn't it Walt's intention to bring other cultures, countries or places like space to the people. He created Tomorrowland to show people the future. Today Disney makes the attractions to make people buy DVDs or other merchandise.

I don't hate kids, in fact in every winter I'm part of as ki course with little kids, because it is funny to work with them. That's what I like about Disney that there are so many things for grown ups too. Unfortunately the things for us aren't improving.  It's getting worse.

I really hope that Disney will influence my life like it did yours.

[Tuvok]

For god sake, is it realy neccesary to turn every single topic in an 'anti toon invasion' and 'everything USED to be much better' discussion? Disney is adapting to the need of the current customer. Thanks to Pixar, the last couple of years, a new generation is connecting with Disney through the animated films and characters. You're forgetting that Disney is a company who, above everything else, wants to make profit. It's a business, not a playgarden. Cars is one of the most profittable franchises and is used as a bridge to the current generation (not to mention it's one of the few boys related franchises, which is what they are trying to focus on now). If it brings more of the 'green' to the company with a tie-in to the toons, then they do it. It's that simple. Disney executives have regularly stated that the Disney themeparks are being built to SELL the merchandise. Even Eiser said it when they built DLP. The revenues they generate with Cars merchandise are huge.

I can imagine that some of you don't like this new way of Disney doing business, I can understand, but the old days are gone. A company needs to addapt to the customer. The 'old' generation of Disneyland fans is getting smaller and smaller, the 'new' generation expects something else from the Disney resorts. They are growing up with franchises, blockbuster movies, characters and lots of Disney channels which are all around. Times are changing.

[davewasbaloo]

Funny, to me it feels like a market in the temple. Yes, modern things are fine, and change is fine. But I suggest you study your history. When Disneyland opened Mickey Mouse watches were the most popular variety, and Davy Crockett was an international phenomenon, both selling far more in GDP terms than anything today. Although both icons were represented in the park, they did not overrun the park.

Do you think the public ever asked for a pirate boat ride, or a haunted hotel with a lift that goes up and down? No, if you ask the public, they just pull from their own limited points of referrence. That is not what makes Disney world class.

If it were about carnival rides, ask yourself why Alton Towers only pulls in 15% of the crowds of Disney. If it were about the films and characters, why is Warner Bros Movie World also struggling (to the point where Warner Bros. pulled out of the German park). It is the quality, attention to detail, and the inclusion of the whole family that has been it's success. It would be like going into a Star bucks to find out they mainly sell water and juice. There are certain ethos and standards that are required. That is why I am so harsh about the European fan base, most do not understand what makes DIsney Disney, not a conscious level. But I bet if it were a park of steel coasters and rubber heads only, there would not be as many visitors over time.

Ever stop to think our queries and issues are based on the fact that we want DLP to succeed. How successful has all this tooning really been? Has Buffalo Bill's sold more tickets? Given all the freebees there, it doesn't seem like it. Has TSPL or Crush driven attendance the way Space Mountain did in 1995? No where near.

Ever stop to think this is why we hate the direction of travel, and we write our opinions on message boards in the hopes that DIsney will read and give pause for thought?

I have a snr. exec friend at Disney who claims unless it is tied to a franchise or is a thrill, Iger is unlikely to sign it off. And LAsseter is only interested in his creations. How does that future look to you.

In the States and Japan, Splash Mountain is one of the most popular attractions. And yet less than 98% of riders have ever seen the film it is based on. How many people have seen Wind in the Willows? Yet there is always a long wait for Mr Toad's Wild Ride. What are the most popular attractions at WDW? It used to be Tower of Terror, now it is Soarin'. There is a theme of what has longevity and what does not.

[davewasbaloo]

oh, and guess what, when I was a kid, we had blockbusters and franchises, and Disney did tie ins too (I fondly remember the Tron men being a part of the Main Street Electrical Parade for a couple of years). But it was not as blatant.

[DopeyDad]

Any chance we can avoid this topic becoming another TSPL issue, if we could try to avoid generalisations about people or groups and how well or not they understand Disney I think we'll be able to keep a sensible discussion going longer.

[davewasbaloo]

Europe is a market place. In terms of business you always describe market constituents. How can we better stratify market segments so that it is not offensive given the fact the DLP is in Europe, where the majority of consumers are European, and DLP has unique (and some not so unique) issues without offending people who live in Europe? I find this most perplexing?

And is not the best way to learn something or to explore something is to discuss uncensored? I find some of the sentiments on this board most illogical?

Also, is it not surprising that this is the next iteration of an agenda DLP management have since TSPL, that there seems to be a growing contingent of people raising their concern while some seem to figuratively wish to put fingers in their ears and go "la la la la la, I can't hear you"?

People are indeed strange.

[DopeyDad]

strange and predictable, suit yourself Dave, just a suggestion.

[dagobert]

Any chance we can avoid this topic becoming another TSPL issue, if we could try to avoid generalisations about people or groups and how well or not they understand Disney I think we'll be able to keep a sensible discussion going longer.

I don't think that this topic will turn into another TSPL issue. To have many different opinions is a great thing, because it keeps the discussion going on. And I think that nobody wants to repeat the TSPL fiasco. It would be boring if we all have the same opinions. As long as nobody gets hurt, we all will be fine.

You just have to look at the forum. After the opening of TSPL there wasn't much happening here. Now the forum is alive again.