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[Ezra]

I think the story is very important to the ride; I just wish it was more apparent actually in-ride.

[disney-john]

Agreed the story isn't just for phantom manor it's for all of thunder Mesa ,  but if it was clearer to every day visitors, and not just us "disney nuts" (in the nicest sense) I feel the great theming would come across clear, and increase visitors enjoyment  of frontierland.

[Aladar]

The backstory of the lands at Disneyland Paris was not ment to be fully known by guests, but only as a basis to develop each land in a way that gives a sense of consistency, to make everything have a reason to be there. Over the years, the addition of new attractions at Disneyland California and Walt Disney World Florida, made each land a little confusing in terms of storytelling, that's why Michael Eisner wanted the Imagineers to create a backstory not only for each attraction, but also for each whole land, so each attraction would be seemlessly integrated with its environment and its neighbour attractions.  The real goal is to make guests feel they are in a real place and that everything has a logic sense inside each land. That's part of the magic of Disneyland.

Of course, for us fans, knowing backstories as well as many other secrets ads up to the magic because we love Disneyland not only for what it offers, but also for what it is, we love this kind of secrets because we love the art and we appreciate the hard work in it.

[disney-john]

True, and imagineers always say that story drives everything they do, but I feel that phantom manor story, (it's my favourite ride I must point out) is confusing to say the least, or maybe, and I'm not knocking disney, imagineers or dlrp for this, but poorly told?  I'm all for mystery, and our favourite rides has tonnes of that, but a little more narration is all I'm asking for, as my daughter has been for the passed 6 years visiting dlrp, has come out of PM with a load of questions, why is she a skeleton at the end? why is she crying? Who is the figure in the mirror? And on..... And on.....  Believe me I , and I'm sure other parents will agree, we get enough "why?" questions from our children without disney adding to them..... Lol

Also went on haunted mansion in wdw, she came off no questions, just a statement "that was cool."

[DGRavenswood]

I think the fact that the Manor leaves so many open questions is actually part of what makes it so intriguing. Everyone can either come up with their own interpretation or try to research it. It's a dilemma I've come across with my site – do I really want to rob the attraction of its mysteries?

In any case, I think we need to differentiate the backstory and the ride story in this case. The backstory is a quite well-developed narrative but the ride itself does not try to tell a more linear story than the other Haunted Mansions. The recurring characters (Bride and Phantom) are essentially visual replacements of the ghost host narration; a "backbone" to tie the various scenes together. Anything beyond that is intentionally open for interpretation... Much like it has been at the Haunted Mansion for over 40 years.

[Scissorsboi]

Just had a thought! The mirrors could use the spirit of Melanie guiding you out to safety, I've never really liked that final scene with her skeletal form, it seems so anticlimatic and confusing compared to how beautifully crafted the rest of it feels - most people I ride with don't even realise it's her, just a generic skeleton..

[Ezra]

True; Haunted Mansion does not have a liner story. But it does make sense; I think of it like this (on ride)... The Ghost Host invites you to tour the Mansion; which is a kind of... retirement home for ghosts from all over the world. The ghosts at first have trouble materializing so Madame Leota summons them. The ghosts materialize and have a party. XD Then it turns out they really like you and want you to stay with them and become the 1000th Happy Haunt. Of course there are rumors with the whole... falling out the attic window thing. Not sure about that. But... what makes it different from the Manor is that... the Manor's on ride story line is somewhat unknown... when the Mansion's is pretty much understood. However the Mansion's backstory is quite unknown, when the Manor's is more well-known.

I hope that made sense. o_o

And about Melanie being skeletal at the end... well... I just guessed she was a ghoul rather than a ghost, like the folks in Phantom Canyon (well apart from the poker players and the ghosts flying around... they're obviously ghosts). Eh, just my own opinion.

[disney-john]

Nice feature re phantom manor here on disney and more site....

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... manor.html

[DGRavenswood]

True; Haunted Mansion does not have a liner story. But it does make sense; I think of it like this (on ride)... The Ghost Host invites you to tour the Mansion; which is a kind of... retirement home for ghosts from all over the world. The ghosts at first have trouble materializing so Madame Leota summons them. The ghosts materialize and have a party. XD Then it turns out they really like you and want you to stay with them and become the 1000th Happy Haunt. Of course there are rumors with the whole... falling out the attic window thing. Not sure about that. But... what makes it different from the Manor is that... the Manor's on ride story line is somewhat unknown... when the Mansion's is pretty much understood. However the Mansion's backstory is quite unknown, when the Manor's is more well-known.

That is one interpretation, just like there are many for Phantom Manor.

One example: We enter the house where we see what happened here many years earlier when the evil Phantom hung the groom in the attic. The Bride searches the house for him as more and more spirits materialize (invited to the ghostly wedding party by Madame Leota). The Phantom has dug a grave for us in the garden through which we enter the underworld where he tries to trap us. Just then, the Bride appears, dead by now, and shows us the way out. After one last attempt to hold us back (the Mirrors), we manage to escape the Manor. With the Phantom defeated (or is he?) the Bride invites us to hurry back and keep her company.

That's one interpretation of the ride's story, and if I'm not too mistaken it's pretty close to what the Imagineers had in mind themselves. But they kept it intentionally open for each guest's imagination and, again, I think that kind of audience participation helped the Manor gain its fan base.

[RockNRoller]

True; Haunted Mansion does not have a liner story. But it does make sense; I think of it like this (on ride)... The Ghost Host invites you to tour the Mansion; which is a kind of... retirement home for ghosts from all over the world. The ghosts at first have trouble materializing so Madame Leota summons them. The ghosts materialize and have a party. XD Then it turns out they really like you and want you to stay with them and become the 1000th Happy Haunt. Of course there are rumors with the whole... falling out the attic window thing. Not sure about that. But... what makes it different from the Manor is that... the Manor's on ride story line is somewhat unknown... when the Mansion's is pretty much understood. However the Mansion's backstory is quite unknown, when the Manor's is more well-known.

That is one interpretation, just like there are many for Phantom Manor.

One example: We enter the house where we see what happened here many years earlier when the evil Phantom hung the groom in the attic. The Bride searches the house for him as more and more spirits materialize (invited to the ghostly wedding party by Madame Leota). The Phantom has dug a grave for us in the garden through which we enter the underworld where he tries to trap us. Just then, the Bride appears, dead by now, and shows us the way out. After one last attempt to hold us back (the Mirrors), we manage to escape the Manor. With the Phantom defeated (or is he?) the Bride invites us to hurry back and keep her company.

That's one interpretation of the ride's story, and if I'm not too mistaken it's pretty close to what the Imagineers had in mind themselves. But they kept it intentionally open for each guest's imagination and, again, I think that kind of audience participation helped the Manor gain its fan base.

You certainly know your PM Mr Ravenswood, have you picked this all up from the web or could you reccomend some bed time reading for another avid fan?

[DGRavenswood]

You certainly know your PM Mr Ravenswood, have you picked this all up from the web or could you reccomend some bed time reading for another avid fan?

I'm the one who put it on the web in the first place!

More seriously, I wish there was more reading material out there regarding Phantom Manor. If you've read Jason Surrel's Haunted Mansion book and "From Sketch to Reality" you've read most everything there is out there. If you can read French, I also recommend "Entretiens Avec un Empire Vol. 3" which has interviews with many DLP Imagineers including Jeff Burke.

For my website I had to do my own research which consisted not only in closely examining the attraction itself but also in corresponding with many key Phantom Manor imagineers who were kind enough to share their insights.

[Ezra]

With the Mansion... I still think its on-ride story is quite obvious. So I stick by what I said that they're kinda opposite with what is known and what isn't known. But hey, just my opinion. :mrgreen: But the Manor's on-ride story you posted is the one I generally think is correct; I merely meant that its not too obvious to most people who don't know the history of Thunder Mesa etc.

After all the backstory of Haunted Mansion is quite unknown; there are the old concept stories but who knows what is actually canon. And mostly all the characters pasts are unknown too. Phantom Manor's story is more explored even though its not obvious at the parks.

And there's that debate with who the Phantom is... I was reading a French forum and someone mentioned that one of the party guests in the ballroom is actually Henry... then surely that would mean the Phantom is not Henry? o_O After all he appears in that scene too. But then... auto-translate doesn't always get everything right.

I don't get it when people say that in the Manor you (as the rider) arn't involved in the story like you are with the Mansion... I mean the Phantom is talking to you... and he seems to want to keep you in Phantom Canyon... that seems pretty involved to me.

Oh BTW just have to add; I love your Manor site! Did you take all the photos for it yourself? 'cause they're really good!

[DGRavenswood]

And there's that debate with who the Phantom is... I was reading a French forum and someone mentioned that one of the party guests in the ballroom is actually Henry... then surely that would mean the Phantom is not Henry? o_O After all he appears in that scene too. But then... auto-translate doesn't always get everything right.

Yes, I remember reading that somewhere myself. It's only fan speculation. I think it's pretty safe to say that in the Imagineer's original concepts the Phantom is a malevolent manifestation of Henry Ravenswood's spirit. In the original story version I posted a while ago this is even spelled out while the Imagineers generally avoid confirming this one way or the other.

Oh BTW just have to add; I love your Manor site! Did you take all the photos for it yourself? 'cause they're really good!

Thank you, most of them were taken by me or my co-host Sam, a few are official pictures.

[RockNRoller]

You certainly know your PM Mr Ravenswood, have you picked this all up from the web or could you reccomend some bed time reading for another avid fan?

I'm the one who put it on the web in the first place!

More seriously, I wish there was more reading material out there regarding Phantom Manor. If you've read Jason Surrel's Haunted Mansion book and "From Sketch to Reality" you've read most everything there is out there. If you can read French, I also recommend "Entretiens Avec un Empire Vol. 3" which has interviews with many DLP Imagineers including Jeff Burke.

For my website I had to do my own research which consisted not only in closely examining the attraction itself but also in corresponding with many key Phantom Manor imagineers who were kind enough to share their insights.

Thanks for that, Ive already got both those books so I guess I'll just have to trawl the web, oh dear never mind :lol:

[Ezra]

Ah okay, thanks. I was wondering if it had any confirmation or not. Guess its all speculation again as usual with the Manor. :mrgreen: