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[stevenlatham01]

Sorry, when I said "the street" I did not mean main street. Baloo was actually walking around Adventureland so glad to hear that you agree that it would be okay to see that.

The only toons I saw on main street was when the parade and Disney Dance Express were on. Do you all take offense to the toons on the parade? Personally I thought the parade was great but the Dance Express was a little boring and we only watched it once.

I do take your point that the park is suited more to kids and I would say under 12. I would not have wanted to go there as a teenager. Think I would have been a bit bored but I prefer big thrill rides and I don't think DLP has enough of them to be there more than 1 day but then that's not really what Disney is about.

I would say about 90% of the people we saw there were there with kids and taking that we went last week when most Europeans are in school term lots of people must have pulled their kids out of school to go. What do you think they could do to attract more adult only groups?

[davewasbaloo]

Of course. After all, I grew up at DL with elder relatives that went all the time without children. I courted my wife at DLP. I honeymooned at Walt Disney World. And we decided to have a family when we went to DL in California for our anniversary.

You have made the point in your post above. Disney used to be for all ages, and appeal to all ages (in the 90's, Walt Disney World was the most popular honeymoon spot in the world, beating the Caribbean, Hawaii, Rome etc.).

Problem is, for at least 10 years now, the focus is on kids. And that is terrible. Kids grow up. I know mine do, and they are less compelled by DLP now, because of all the damn toons.

And it is not just meet and greets replacing the live music, actors and craftsman, but also the stupid attractions that have been added over the last 10 years too.

Disneyland was designed as a place for the whole family, Walt was inspired by Tivoli Gardens and even used to do date nights and adult aimed events in the parks in the 50's and 60's. And the shows used to aim more at family (as in adults too) humour.

Modern Disney, especially in Paris, does not get this. They create juvenile attractions, market at little ones, and frankly it is ruining the parks around the globe.

[davewasbaloo]

Steven, did you know that the Disney Village used to have 5 stages of live bands, plus a nightclub (now there is 1).

There used to be a Jazz Club with live music in the Hotel New York

the DLH used to have a live String quartet

Newport Bay had a nautical music group.

Sequoia Lodge and Cheyenne used to have country groups

and the Santa Fe used to have a mexican mariachi band.

Main Street, Frontierland, Adventureland and Discoveryland used to be teaming with live music, and fantasyland used to have jugglers and fire eaters.

DLP used to be a place where you could see indian crafts made, wood carving, middle eastern carpet weaving.

There used to be state of the art productions on all the stages every day.

Fireworks used to explode over the castle all year.

There were piano players, brass bands and barber shop quartets on Main Street. 5 of the table service restaurant chefs used to have Michelin stars.

The place used to ooze quality and there was much on offer to those without children. Sadly finances mean that is no longer the case....

[dagobert]

Such things would definately attract people.

In 2007 and I think in 2008 as well, there were bands playing at the Santa Fe. And in 2006 we spent one evening at Billy Bob's Country Saloon, because there was also a band playing. That was a lot of fun, because many people did line dancing. DTD and many hotels at WDW still offer bands in the evenings.

I want to make clear that I'm not totally against toons, but currently there too many characters out in the parks and too many cheap attractions related to toons. I also enjoy getting a picture with Mickey and Co, but I prefere how it is done at WDW. There are designated areas with queues and no pushing like in Paris.

[DutchBrit]

Sadly finances mean that is no longer the case....

Therefore those things you mentioned did not bring in enough money to justify keeping them....

I like Disney, and was perfectly happy to go to DLP twice and Florida once (so far). But I don't have any trouble at all in accepting that Disney's demographic IS mainly children. It makes sense to me. Couples have so many other options. Ask the vast majority couples where they would go for a weekend away and they are going to think of a city trip, some fancy hotel, museums, art galleries etc etc. And as a european, your options in that area are very extensive.

To be frank, even other amusements parks aim particularly at the younger end of the market. I know you are planning to go to the Efteling, there you are also going to find "toons' and the the latest development in the wood comes directly from the associated TV series and one of the big new attractions will be based around the Efteling icon character. This does not seem to provoke howls of protest among Dutch adults, even those who would consider themselves as fans. Perhaps Europeans are just less inclined to think amusements parks are adult entertainment?

[dagobert]

Sadly finances mean that is no longer the case....

Therefore those things you mentioned did not bring in enough money to justify keeping them...

Disneyland Paris was successful at the begining and wasn't killed by the entertainment it offered. It brought enough money in. The problem was the high interest rate due to building too many hotels. If Disney would only have built one or two hotels, it would have been a huge success from the begining.

[davewasbaloo]

I am not advocating just aiming at Adults, what I want to see is more offered for the whole family. Not many things in DLP added in the last 10 years would really fit that description. Sure, adults can ride the parachutes or slinky dog, but would they want to without kids? How many crying kids do you see come off of Crush coaster, because their parents thought it would be fine as it is a toon?

[DLP-Photos.com]

The last 10 years has seen a major decrease in adult only activities and entertainment aimed at adults. Another and at least equally as disturbing factor and reason for the lack of alone adults in the parks is the advertising - it has become more and more toon-fixated each year and it is getting harder and harder for adults, who has never visited, to realize why they should visit if they do not have kids.

I mean, there is still lots of things to do for adults without kids. I went last summer with one of my friends and we are going again this summer and are very excited, I went with my parents at Christmas and with my mom/sister in 2008/2009. No kids and we enjoyed ourselves, but I think it is mainly down to the fact that we have seen what Disney has the ability to do. When we visit it is not only to visit the magical lands of Disneyland, it is also to revisit our memories of an even more magical place. A feeling that adult new-comers will not get IMO with the last 10 years additions.

[DutchBrit]

The last 10 years has seen a major decrease in adult only activities and entertainment aimed at adults. Another and at least equally as disturbing factor and reason for the lack of alone adults in the parks is the advertising - it has become more and more toon-fixated each year and it is getting harder and harder for adults, who has never visited, to realize why they should visit if they do not have kids.

OK, but you are working from a premis that everyone SHOULD visit. Which I think is a false one. If you like amusment parks, you are likely to visit. If you don't much care for amusement parks, then you are better off elsewhere.

Neither do I think that the idea that amusement parks are mainly for younger people is an incorrect one. This, of course, does not mean that an adult won't enjoy them. For example, Harry Potter books are actually children's books, who have adult fans. And that's fine. But dressing Harry Potter up in "adult" covers is a deception and rather tragic in my opinion.

[DLP-Photos.com]

No, then you have misunderstood me - of course I do not think people SHOULD visit if they don't want to. I just think that with the current advertisement many adults, who are not obsessed with Disney (like me and my family) do not realize that they would actually enjoy a stay at Disney. Everytime I tell my friends that I am going to Disneyland again, they keep telling me that it's only for children. When I then tell them of things like Pirates/PM/ToT and the extensive stories behind many of the areas they look surprised because to them Disneyland is just a place to meet Goofy. I would get the same impression if I had never visited before and saw the current advertisement

Just as Davewasbaloo I am not saying kids shouldn't be getting attention from Disney, I just wish they would once again do more to please travellers without kids, who would end up enjoying the parks equally as much - or even more!

[DutchBrit]

No, then you have misunderstood me - of course I do not think people SHOULD visit if they don't want to. I just think that with the current advertisement many adults, who are not obsessed with Disney (like me and my family) do not realize that they would actually enjoy a stay at Disney. !

Hmmm. The thing is that if you don't find the idea of seeing Goofy etc in any way attractive I really don't think that Pirates, TOT or PM is going to be enough to get you to come. And frankly, the main demographic for Disney ARE children. As a company, that's who they are mostly selling to. As I said before, it makes sense to concentrate on your core business.

Just as Davewasbaloo I am not saying kids shouldn't be getting attention from Disney, I just wish they would once again do more to please travellers without kids, who would end up enjoying the parks equally as much - or even more!

I'm not sure this was ever really the aim. Also I went to DLP in 1986 as an adult without children and I can't say I found my visit last year plus child as any way inferior to the first one. Rather the contrary.

Adult travellers have a lot of alternative options. To try to overturn the idea that Disneyland is for children would take a big and expensive advertising campaign, and introducing the sort of things that would appeal to adult travellers who don't find the idea of Disney appealing enough would be an extra expense, with a very doubtful result. I doubt it would be worth it. Disney's marketing department clearly hold the same views.

[davewasbaloo]

A few things, I am guessing that you meant 1996, DLP did not open until 1992.

Also, if it is aimed at kids, why do DLR, WDW and TDL all have wedding chapels? Why does Disneyland do live swing dancing and all the live entertainment, as well as re-opening a speciality perfume store?

Why did TDS run a campaign for TDS as a place for elderly people to go ( no kids focused on in those ads?).

I suspect you haven fallen into the trap...

[dagobert]

You can also add:

Why does DL, WDW and TDR offer nightclubs, bars and adult only restaurants?
Why does DCL offer a pool on the ship where only adults are allowed and why is there an adult beach at Disney's private island?
Why do the Disney Resorts offer golf courses?
Why do the Disney Resorts offer business solutions?
And why did Disney build rides that aren't aimed towards children. E.g. SM, Expedition Everest, Mission Space or Test Track?


I hope none of the parents leave their kids in the rooms while enjoying a few drinks at a bar or a nightclub.

[DLP-Photos.com]

"You are dead if you aim only for kids"

"It's no secret that we were sticking just about every nickel we had on the chance that people would really be interested in something totally new and unique in the field of entertainment."

"Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."

These three things seems to be lacking in the latest additions in attractions, entertainment and advertising. All three are quotes of Walt Disney.

[dagobert]

WDW is also advertising the resort towards adults only. I have a WDW/DL planning DVD and there is a section that shows what WDW or DL offer for adults only. Just DLRP isn't offering anything.