Home

[DutchBrit]

My perspective is based on learning from over 60 years of a theme park industry in terms of what delivers, who has stayed in busines and not, IAAPA reports and other documented evidence. What is your persepctive based upon?

That more and more people are visiting Disney parks? So whether you like it or not, it's WORKING. For now. It might not work in the future, but then they can change again. Strategy is meant to be a dynamic thing rather than static.

Part of "Raising the bar" in the entertainment industry is responding to customer demand better. It might not be what YOU, as an individual customer want, but nothing can be done to please just one customer, or even a group of customers, if they remain a minority.

[NanookJackal]

There is a reason there is no longer a Smurf park in Europe, or that the Flintstones theme area is no longer at Universal Studios Hollywood. These fads fade, quality endures. Otherwise, why are PotC and Big Thunder the most popular attractions in the Disney parks around the globe?

I have to argee, and thats the problem after all with Movie Franchise Attractions..! What is Universal doing if Harry Potter losses his Hype he has now? if the popularity gets lost and no visitor is interested anymore? Demolish this whole area again and retheme it to another movie? For the short therm of use it will work, but it won´t work for the long time period like PotC, PM, SM ect. E-Ticket Attractions should not Themed after Movies, same goes for Lands Themed to one specific Movie it´s just a no go.

Someone else said here that its hard to advetise attraktions like BTM ect. I don´t think thats true, if you look at other Parks lets say Europapark and the Blue Fire coaster or the upcoming wodden coaster don´t have any movie franchizes and draw in visitors, right these are Coasters, but it was just a sample... Disney could do both, look alone what TOT did for DLP or SM in the 90´s... It works today the same way, you just need to make a good attraktion and a perfect advertisment...

Maybe am the Only one but i think the planned Ratatouille Attraction is a good idea, but i also think that with this Technology they could have made something not Movie Related. Attractions like POTC do work today as in the past you just have to sell it well.

Lets see what happens in the future when Mr. Iger steps down in 2015/2016 maybe we will get Unique Attractions again and they let us Play again with our Imagination.

[davewasbaloo]

Think of it another way. What is the hourly throughput of the Princess Meet and Greet - 60 an hour? How does that compare to many of the attractions? By that rationale, there are a far greater number of guests who ride PotC, Big thunder, PM, IASW (1200-1500 riders per hour) than do the princess meet and greets.

[DutchBrit]

Think of it another way. What is the hourly throughput of the Princess Meet and Greet - 60 an hour? How does that compare to many of the attractions? By that rationale, there are a far greater number of guests who ride PotC, Big thunder, PM, IASW (1200-1500 riders per hour) than do the princess meet and greets.

It's not an either/or. The same people who visit the Princesses also ride PotC etc. But if Princesses are your bag, you are now happier to have a princess attraction, even if you also like the other stuff. I guess management have decided that there are enough people for whom adding the princesses has increased the appeal of the park to justify doing it. Are they wrong?

[Josh]

Personally, I don't understand why people would specifically ask for more franchise attractions. It's rare for film sequels to score better than three stars from the critics (except for films that were meant to be a series from the beginning), because they're just more of the same and they're stretching characters that were created to fit into a specific plot. Why would people want to see those characters stretched out in a ride as well? When it's done a few times, it seems nice to see them again in a different medium, but when it's everywhere the opportunities for new characters are lost.

Uh-huh. And Henry Ford thought that all cars should be black. Most things are not true forever. Different world, different needs.

A different world wants more of the same franchises? People ask all the time for sequels to be made out of their favourite films, but what they don't notice is that they feel more excited about new and original films. That logic applies to theme parks, as well.

I think one of the problems is that Disney see other parks using film franchises to attract crowds and probably feel that to compete in the same advertising space they need to push their own big franchises. As much as we may hate it, the pull of Harry Potter is far greater to the new generation of potential visitors than the history and imagination of classic Disney Parks.

Imagineering are the only company I know of that would do better by ignoring their competition than trying to do what they do but better. They need to start doing their own thing.

@DutchBrit
Are your arguements based on increasing visitors and profits, or are they based on enjoyability and quality? Do you think that Disney could have the same quality with their most recent rides if they didn't have franchises associated with them?

E-Ticket Attractions should not Themed after Movies, same goes for Lands Themed to one specific Movie it´s just a no go.

I've never though of it like that. That's a great way of compromising on this.

(Also, breaking news: Toy Story Mania is coming to TDS in a new land based on Toy Story in the style of an abandoned amusement park. Here comes the characterisation of TDS...)

[davewasbaloo]

Yep, American Waterfront went from having no attractions other than the theatre, to having ToT. And now Turtle Talk and TSMM

[Epcot_Boy]

Imagineering are the only company I know of that would do better by ignoring their competition than trying to do what they do but better. They need to start doing their own thing.

When you think of this glorious list provided by DWB..........

Train
Horse drawn streetcar
Jungle cruise
Tiki room
Indiana Jones and the temple of the forbidden eye (synergy but not disney)
Pirates of the Caribbean
Haunted mansion/phantom Manor
Splash mountain (ok, i'll conceed this one)
Country bear jamboree
Mark Twain
Golden Horshoe Revue
Big Thunder Mountain
The matterhorn
It's a Small World
Submarine voyage (the original, non nemo version)
Carousels of progress
Hall of presidents
Mission to mars
peoplemover
Adventure thru inner space
Star tours (synergy, non disney)
Le Visionarium
Capt Eo
Space mountain de la terre au la lune
The nautilus (disney attraction)
Hall of presidents
Main street electrical parade (ok, disneyfilms here)
Spaceship earth
Universe of energy
Wonders of life
Horizons
World of motors
Test track
Journey into imagination
Soarin'
Listen to the Land
The Living Seas (pre Nemo)
American adventure
Impressions de France/O canada/wonders of china
World showcase
Illuminations reflections of earth
Tapestry of nations
Great movie ride (some disney touches, but wouldn't miss them if removed)
Rock n roller coaster
Tower of terror
Muppetvision 3D (Disney did not own the muppets when built)
Motors action (would welcome the removal of the disney references)
Cinemagique (some Disney references - minority of show)
One man's dream (ok, can't get more disney, so grant you that one)
It's tough to be a bug (ok, synergy)
Kilemenjaro safari
Pengani Forest Exploration trail
Kali/Grizzly River rapids
Expedition everest
Maharaja jungle trek
Countdown to extiction (they synergised this as dinosaur)
Screamin'
Power of blast
Chance to shine
Animation (ok, granted)
Aladdin/Tarzan le recontre/roi lion/Mulan stage shows (granted)
Golden dreams
Seasons of the Vine
Journey to the centre of the earth
20k leagues under the sea (ok)
Fortress exploration
Big band beat
Stormrider
Aquatopia
Sinbad
Mystic rhythms
Bravesemo
The daytime lagoon show (Disney)
F! - DL and TDS (not WDW) -Disney
Remember dreams come true (Disneyland themed)
Buffalo bill's wild west show (before the rubberheads ruined it)
Crescendo
La Nouba
Polynesian luau
Tahitian Terrace

............there was never a truer statement =D>

[DutchBrit]

@DutchBrit
Are your arguements based on increasing visitors and profits, or are they based on enjoyability and quality? Do you think that Disney could have the same quality with their most recent rides if they didn't have franchises associated with them?

Not clear which arguments you are refering to, but my main point is that having Disney films and characters as themes for attractions etc in Disney parks is not the end of civilization as we know it. Not only is it what a large percentage of potential visitors both expect and want, but it makes sound business sense in what is now a very competitive market.

I agree that the attraction of the latest rides is mostly the films they came from. But when that IS an attraction, I don't see it as a huge problem. My son only rode on Slinky Dog in TSPL, but he was very taken with it. Same for the Cars ride. And as I still and always will think that theme parks are meant to appeal primarily to children, if a ride has kid appeal, then there should be a place for them.

[Epcot_Boy]

Not only is it what a large percentage of potential visitors both expect and want, but it makes sound business sense in what is now a very competitive market.

I would love to see the stats to show that this is really the case. There is no doubt that it is a competitive market out there, but what that requires is some original thinking, out of the box, so to speak. Not more of the same old drivel

And as I still and always will think that theme parks are meant to appeal primarily to children, if a ride has kid appeal, then there should be a place for them.

Thankfully Walt Disney didn't feel this way in those early years, Epcot is a testament to that
Great Theme parks surely should appeal to all ages, all sexes etc etc. That's what makes sound business sense :thumbs:

[DutchBrit]

There is no doubt that it is a competitive market out there, but what that requires is some original thinking, out of the box, so to speak. Not more of the same old drivel

What is needed is to supply something that is popular and cannot be supplied anywhere else.

Thankfully Walt Disney didn't feel this way in those early years, Epcot is a testament to that

Hadn't Walt been dead almost 20 years when Epcot opened? I agree that Epcot is quite an unusual theme park, but it came at a time when the Disney company had a solid base to build on with other theme parks that are more child-like in their appeal.

Great Theme parks surely should appeal to all ages, all sexes etc etc. That's what makes sound business sense :thumbs:

Just because the focus is on children, it doesn't mean that grown-up children can't enjoy them. People who don't enjoy acting like big kids occasionally generally don't enjoy theme parks full stop.

[NanookJackal]

What is needed is to supply something that is popular and cannot be supplied anywhere else.

Right but every Park can Build a Crush Coaster, the Ride system is not Unique to Disney and also everyone can use a Turtle,
the only thing it won´t have is Crush´s Name on it, same goes for Cars ect... If Disney want´s to Build stuff no other can do then they need something like TOT Own Ride System and an not Film Related Story with copyright.

Just because the focus is on children, it doesn't mean that grown-up children can't enjoy them. People who don't enjoy acting like big kids occasionally generally don't enjoy theme parks full stop.

Knot´s Berry Farm, Europapark, Universal ect. ect. are Parks not only aimed to Kids..! The only Park Frenchize in the world who got caled a kids Park is Disneyland..! Sorry but Theme Parks are not just for Kids, the main visitor puller are still coasters, if themed or not. A Park like Disneyland should have Rides and Entertainment for every Age as it was supposed to be.

I don´t have problems if they make some rides with they´re film franchizes but i don´t like it if every ride is just about them. How long till the Toons overrun the whole DisneyPark and Attractions? Disney has to make new unique to disneypark story themed rides, with no movie overlay ect.

[Josh]

Imagine if everyone suddenly had the mindset "Disney Parks are for kids. It's only worth going if I'm a parent." Visitor numbers would probably half if that were the case. Disney Parks are not a very big and expensive version of Gulliver's World.

[ed-uk]

How come so many people ( adults included ) can appreciate Sleeping Beauty Castle at Disneyland Paris, a fairytale Castle based on a fairy story and a Disney cartoon film, they look at it in awe, yet bulk at the thought of Carsland? Carsland it ment to entertain surely.  Walt Disney poured his heart and soul into animation, he invented the cartoon film and Toon characters beloved all over the world. I love Disneyland, but I can't credit him with inventing the theme park or roller coaster ride. But he did build the best theme park ever and TWDC have contiued in that fine tradition.

[Josh]

Hmm. That's a good point. But the issue with Carsland isn't that it's based off a franchise. It's that it's an entire land based off one film, whereas Fantasyland sets itself as a template for anything related to fantastical animation. I wouldn't mind if the new land's cliff face became the icon of the park, but still: Walt said that Disneyland will never be complete, but can you ever see anything new added to Carsland? It's an entire and very large land dedicated to one franchise.

If, however, it was set as just a Californian desert and the Radiator Springs Racers was the only ride there based off Cars, the land would have a lot more opportunities to change and expand.

[DutchBrit]

the only thing it won´t have is Crush´s Name on it, same goes for Cars ect...

Correct. Which is my point.

Sorry but Theme Parks are not just for Kids, the main visitor puller are still coasters, if themed or not. A Park like Disneyland should have Rides and Entertainment for every Age as it was supposed to be.

That's your opinion, I have mine. And I think that coasters are also for kids, just bigger kids.

I don´t have problems if they make some rides with they´re film franchizes but i don´t like it if every ride is just about them. How long till the Toons overrun the whole DisneyPark and Attractions? Disney has to make new unique to disneypark story themed rides, with no movie overlay ect.

You see, this to me is like someone calling themselves a fan of Legoland, going on countless trips to Legoland and yet going on a Legoland forum and saying "You know what ruins it for me? All those pesky plastic brickie things! I hate them!". I bet when Legoland build a new attraction, their fan sites are not full of people complaining that yet AGAIN, those stupid bricks are the chosen theming, and bewailing the lack of imagination and out of the box thinking.....