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[dagobert]

I've always thought that WDI builds all the Audio Animatronics, but then I've found the corporate website of Garner Holt Productions.

http://www.garnerholt.com/galleryfantasy.php

When you browse the homepage you will see that many Disney Audio Animatronics are built by that company.

Does WDI build something on their own or is the whole production of Animatronics outsourced?

[davewasbaloo]

They used to build their own, now they outsource most of the work.

[dagobert]

Thanks for the answer, Dave! Does WDI build attractions on their own, or are they just creating them? I know that a rollercoaster will always get built by a manufacturer, like Vekoma or Intamin, but what about new attractions that include new ride technologies like Tokyo's Winnie Pooh.

Whan did WDI stop building AAs? I always thought that the AAs are the crown juwels of WDI.

I have a Travel Channel DVD about WDI and it shows how WDI is experimenting with new technologies. It also shows a large hall where Imagineers are testing the Indiana Jones ride vehicle. Isn't is dangerous to outsource such things, I mean that is a technology transfere and I'm sure all the WDI patents are worth milions.

[davewasbaloo]

You are talking about the good old days, when disney was quality (remember Indiana Jones opened in California 16 years ago now, whereas the time between Epcot and DLP was only 10 years). The little mermaid AA's have all been outsourced. Disney will sometimes build their own things, but more often than not, they are scanning the market to see what else is out there and try to make it better (e.g. World of Color).

As for the IPR, it is all down to the non disclosure deals and back to back agreements. Remember, Mission Space was built by a 3rd party company too, but with the view that Disney would have exclusive use of the technology for a few years.

[dagobert]

To be honest, if Disney continues this way than WDI isn't really needed anymore. Just keep a few to do the master planning and the rest could be done by contrators. Then the best idea and attraction gets chosen. That's the Universal Studios way and maybe Disney should do the Universal way. I know that there is Universal Creative which designs the parks and attractions, but most things are done by outside companies. I'm sure that's a lot cheaper. The Ratatouille dark ride is supposed to cost more than $100 Mio and TSPL was approximately $70 Mio. I still doubt the last number.
Dave, you also read the article about the Space Center in Bremen. The whole indoor park was about $240 Mio and it includes some really great attractions. I searched  in the internet and an old article about the park confirmed that price.

If I'm not mistaken Disney is already doing this with Shanghai DL, or am I wrong? Tim Delaney, master Imagineer and creator of Discoveryland and SM, was fired by WDI and is now a contractor for Shanghai. I think I've read that somewhere.

[davewasbaloo]

This is the model Disney is moving towards. The whole idea is there will be a small brain trust, but they would then commissioning people to deliver the attractions. It is sad really, because it means Disney won't be that special anymore, but yes, their budget expenditure is huge compared to their rivals, and it does not always show.

Space Park had a lower budget, but to be honest, most of the attractions were off the shelf (e.g. the Borg Encounter, Space Shot etc.).

I do miss the old school WDI of Marc Davis' days, or even when DLP was developed. But most of the best people have already gone freelance and have been working for Universal and Thinkwell. Outsourcing is not new, walt did it hinself when he commissioned Arrow to build the MAtterhorn in the 50's. But on this scale, it's really sad.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Shanghai. But look at the problems Universal have had in Sentosa Island with both the Battlestar Galactica Coaster and the Madagascar Dark ride. Outsourcing may not be the best way forward.

Then again Test Track, Mission Space and Expedition Everest were all very expensive projects riddled with problems, cost a fortune, and fell kind of flat.

I am worried that with the current trajectory, we may never get another PotC, HM, or ToT again, and will end up with lots of toon attractions only.

[dagobert]

I still have some faith in WDI. They can still create some nice attractions like they are doing at HKDL and DCA. Unfortunately most of them are connected with toons. I also feat that the great time of WDI is over and that we will never see such elaborate attractions like POTC, PM or TOT.
I also think that John Lasseter shouldn't be at WDI, he should stay at Pixar. He brings too many Pixar movies to the parks.

I wonder why all fomer Imagineers had to leave WDI? Maybe they demanded higher quality?

What annoys me the most is, that WDI praises themself about story telling and being the best in the industry. Maybe they are, but the management teams of the parks do always want the cheapest rides. For example WDW was forced by Tom Staggs to alter the plans of the Fantasyland Expansion and to add ST II. WDW seriously wanted to keep the old one. Hopefully he forces DLRP to raise the quality.

To be honest, when attractions like Harry Potter are built by outside companies, then I don't mind if WDI gets cut down. This single attraction is a lot better than all new WDI attractions in recent years. I'm not talking about TOT, because that one was created during the early 90ies.

[davewasbaloo]

Well I am intrigued by Mystic Manor, and although Toon Based, I am looking forward to Radiator Springs Racer at DCA. But I am not sure the problem at WDi is Pixar, I think it is all the MBA's, led by Iger, who keep stating a franchise and brand needs to be established before the attractions are built.

The issue with the great imagineers leaving Disney is two fold, one, they are more expensive than new blood; and two, they got tireed of fighting (WDI is notorious for poisonous politics).

I remember early in my career, I was warned by friends inside to stay away, that it would kill my love for the parks. I am glad I heeded their warning, I already feel jaded as it is.

There is nothing I would love more than for Disney to be on top of their game again.

And although the WWOHP looks amazing, I do have some gripes with it, namely my kids are too small and I am too big. I would like parks to play by the rules Walt invented, creating a place for everyone to enjoy together (and that does not mean a thrill ride with a playground for the little ones).

[dagobert]

I didn't know that WDI is such a political place.

Mystic Manor is the one attraction I'm looking forward the most. Radiaor Springs looks great, but I'm sure there would be something else that is more connected to California and not related to toons.

Maybe Roy E. Disney and Stanley Gold shouldn't have stopped the Save Disney Campaign after Iger was promoted CEO. Until now I thought he is doing great at Disney, since he fixed the troubles with Pixar and decided to fix DCA as well.

I have never thought about all the franchises, but you are right, nearly everything in recent years is franchise related. Disney's movies are based on the Disney Princesses, and the upcoming Pixar movies are all sequels. I wonder if Pixar is happy with that. The consumer products department seems to be the most powerful at TWDC.
Maybe that's what students learn at Universities today: Establishing franchises!

And in the parks nearly every single attraction is connected to franchises. First they ruined the wonderful Auberge De Cendrillion with adding those stupid princesses. Then the new Fantasyland at WDW was designed around the princesses and Tinker Bell. And of course adding Pixar to everything at DLRP. Even Tokyo DisneySea got invaded by Toy Story. There is no attraction in the whole park related to Pixar. Now they got Turtle Talk With Crush and Toy Story Mania. For me it feels wrong to have Pixar or Disney toons in that wonderful park.

[davewasbaloo]

And people wonder I am grumpy on disney forums. I used to think Disney could do no wrong. But that was when they were designing new non toon attractions.

[dagobert]

That list is taken from wikipedia.com:

WDI projects:
I didn't include the Disney Dream and Fantasy

Mickey's PhilharMagic - Tokyo Disneyland Park - 2011
Goofy's Sky School - Disney California Adventure - 2011
The Little Mermaid: Ariel's Undersea Adventure - Disney California Adventure - 2011 | Magic Kingdom
Star Tours II - Disneyland Park - 2011 | Disney's Hollywood Studios -  2011
Toy Story Land - Hong Kong Disneyland - 2011
Buena Vista Street - Disney California Adventure - 2012
Cars Land    - Disney California Adventure - 2012
Seven Dwarfs Mine Train -    Magic Kingdom - 2012
Toy Story Midway Mania - Tokyo DisneySea - 2012
Jasmine's Flying Carpets - Tokyo DisneySea - 2012
Ratatouille Ride - Walt Disney Studios Park - 2012
Grizzly Gulch - Hong Kong Disneyland - 2012
Mystic Point - Hong Kong Disneyland - 2013

Based on Toons!

Finished DLRP projects:
Toy Story Playland - Walt Disney Studios Park
Crush's Coaster
Cars Race Rally
Buzz Lightyear Laser Blast

That's a long list of toon based attractions.

[CafeFantasia]

I don't know if any of guys listen to the Season Pass podcast, but they recently did an interview with Garner Holt himself, in which he talks about what animatronics he's built for Disney. It's 57 minutes and 11 seconds long. Here's the link to the MP3:

http://hw.libsyn.com/p/6/1/b/61b2dab03c ... id=2384542

[dagobert]

This podcast is the reason why I found that site about Garner Holt and started this topic.

By the way there are many more Season Pass Podcasts about Disney Parks. The best episodes are the ones with Tim Delaney about creating Disneyland Paris, especially Discoveryland, and Bob Gurr.

Recently The Season Pass released a new episode called The Disney Way with Jeff Kober.

The episodes are:
Tim Delaney - EPCOT and The Living Seas
Tim Delaney - Disneyland Paris and Space Mountain
Tim Delaney - California Adventure and Hong Kong Disneyland
Interview with Bob Gurr Part 1 & 2
Interview with rick Rothschild Part 1 & 2
Lou Mongello Talks WDW
The Disney Way with Jeff Kober

I've only listened to the Bob Gurr Intervies and to all three parts with Tim Dlaney. Very interesting, especially the one about DLP and SM. Back then WDI cared a lot about the park and the stories told in the attractions.