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[davewasbaloo]

Are you kidding me? They offer plain pasta in that wonderful restaurant. We loved that restaurant before the princesses arrived. So people are only going there just because of the characters??? And they are paying over 50 Euros for that?

The restaurant offered one of the best salmons I have ever eaten, that was before I became a vegetarian.
According to friends Auberge isn't that relaxing anymore. They wre rushed through the restaurant to accomodate as much people as possible and they weren't happy with food either. They think the food was better before.

It's Disney's fault that people who would enjoy such things aren't coming to DLRP. The whole resort is just promoted to kids. sometime I have the feeling Disney doesn't want to have other guests than families. And many families look at us and you know how they think about a couple being at DL.

I wish I were kidding. But I better be careful, I get into trouble on these boards when I am too critical of other guests, even though I think they are really a part of ruining the resort. But I agree, the food and service are still good, but not as good as it used to be.And no, it is not as relaxing, but that is because it is full of lots of little ones' birthday parties now. They have their place too, but it is very different. Still though, I must confess I enjoyed celebrating Jessica's 5th that way last year too (I know, I am a hypocrit).

But yes, the days of Disney being truly for everyone I think are gone. I would never dream of honeymooning at WDW like we did in 2000. Nor would I find DLP to be a great adult break anymore. When I was courting my wife at DLP, we used to enjoy 5 live music/dancing venues; several table service restaurants - I really miss Key west Seafood, LA Bar and Grill, Hunter's Grill (table service with skewers brought to the table), Parkside Diner (fantastic priced and quality table service), Manhatten Grill (second best restaurant on property with a great European/american fusion), the Jazz Club (great live bands while sipping cocktails or coffee), Rock n Roll America (tribute acts playing U2, Beatles, Rock n Roll, while next door offered the Moody Brothers and line dancing), the Central Stage - huge pop and rock acts, Hurricane's before it was lame and now dead, the wonderful Crescend'O aquatic circus with live music.

Sometimes we would go to DLP for a weekend and never ride and ride, and come back absolutely enthralled with our trip. Those days are long gone. and FWIW, my kids would have enjoyed a lot of those venues too (before anyone chimes in calling my kid unfriendly). My kids adore the TAMTAMs, and find the hub shows dull. They also loved the Tarzan show.

[davewasbaloo]

But I recognise that I am not the typical DLP guest, and nor are you Dagobert. It is really apparent when I pass through St Pancras in London as the DLP train gets in. In California, there are no Tivoli's, nor free museums, nor a number of the things we take for granted in Europe. DL is an icon, with generations growing up going there to dance, date, take families, people watch and retire to.

Here in Europe, we have other places for that. To most here, Disney is all about the toons. So people go expecting that. The two resorts fulfil two very different markets sadly. And the family, toon stuff, sells sadly.

[dagobert]

Wasn't it Jack WRATHER who owned the DL hotel, but Jack Wagner also sounds familiar. I think I have heared of him in the documentation "From Lightbulb to Lightbulb" on the "Entrez Dans La Magique" DLRP-DVD. It was about MSEP.

Disney back then was so much more different than now. I can't imagine Disney having a tobacco shop on Main Street or a shop that sells lingerie. I'm sure some people would complain about that. I think the company cares too much nowadays about how people are going to react on certain things.

Back in 2008 when we have been to WDW, all attractions closed at the same time, except for Extra Magic Hours, which are a lot better over there, because Disney offers the EMHs in the evening as well. That is more fun, because the parks look incredible when they are illuminated and people were more relaxed, especialy in EPCOT and DHS. Most families were gone and only adults stayed until midnight when the park closed. Don't get me wrong, a disney park should be filled with families, DL without children isn''t DL, but people were enjoying drinks and it was just more relaxed in the park.

[davewasbaloo]

Oops, sorry, you are right, it was Wrather (Wagner was the voice of Disneyland, he did all the park announcements).

When we went to WDW in 2008, it was full of staggered opening and closings. And now of course, Fantasmic only shows 2 nights a week at DHS. This is the new Disney I am afraid.

As for EMH, DLP had evening EMH for a while in 2006/7. Heck, when DLP first opened, EMH for hotel guests, all attractions were open in the morning.

But the costs and the uptake, it makes these stupid hard ticket events more appealing e.g. Pirate and Princess Parties, Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party etc. Late night opening is expensive, and DLP has to be mindful of when the trains stop running as more cast members use them (this is particularly a problem in Tokyo). In winter, it is too cold after dak, I have been in the parks after dark when they close at 6 or 7, and if Fanti is not running, the place is deserted. So DLP have struggled with this one. This is why they close early in the week, but finally stay open quite late at the weekends.

But even WDW has clamped down. in the 80's and 90's, the parks were open long hours. MK would be 9-midnight; Epcot (inc World Showcase) 9-Midnight/1am; MGM 10-22.  These days, unless it is EMH, the MK often closes early; Epcot opens World Showcase before lunch and closes at 9:30pm, and DHS is usually a 9-9 park.

[dagobert]

I'm not sure if people are only demanding toons, because each time when we talk to other people about DLRP, they don't understand why we are going there. They expect the whole park like being a fun fair filled with Disney characters. After we told them that there is more than toons and that the park is themed to various things, they got interested and we convinced already four families to go. And they will return.
None of them talked about the toons when they returned. They talked about the wonderful design of the park, the rides and of the bad Disney hotels :lol: .
That's why we tell everyone when they are going for the first time, that they should stay in a Vienna International hotel. By the way we stayed in a VI hotel last weekend, it was our third stay in a VI hotel, and it was again so much better than the DIsney hotels.

DL is indeed an icon in the US. Disney in general is so much loved by Americans. Nearly everyone we met in the US has been to WDW or DL.

[davewasbaloo]

I know. I find it harder to defend these days with the celebrations, character meals, Toy Story Playland etc. But yes, before we had kids, we used to have a lot of people make fun of us too. But everyone we convinced to take their kids pretty much fell in love with it.

My mom refuses to go anymore. She says DLP is too kiddy and nothing like DL in her opinion. It's sad.

But if you read some of the other boards (including this one, but there are other DIScussion groups), it seems like that is all people want. And when the marching band does show up in summer, it seems people pass them by. And yes, when Tiana debuted last year, we saw people queing up 50 minutes before her first meet and greet slot on Main Street.

It drives me mad frankly. But I have come to accept it.

In the meantime, I am very excited for our trip to Europa Park. there are something like 20 shows, live performers, ice show, stunt show, magic shows, flamenco, musicals. I cannot wait. I am trying to keep my expectations low, but I am very hopeful.

[davewasbaloo]

If you read most of the queries on this forum today, the vast majority are character related. And a poster who I do respect has even mentioned in one considering the possibility of taking his kids to Auberge and not eating. I wish I were making this up.

[dagobert]

Oops, sorry, you are right, it was Wrather (Wagner was the voice of Disneyland, he did all the park announcements).

When we went to WDW in 2008, it was full of staggered opening and closings. And now of course, Fantasmic only shows 2 nights a week at DHS. This is the new Disney I am afraid.

As for EMH, DLP had evening EMH for a while in 2006/7. Heck, when DLP first opened, EMH for hotel guests, all attractions were open in the morning.

But the costs and the uptake, it makes these stupid hard ticket events more appealing e.g. Pirate and Princess Parties, Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party etc. Late night opening is expensive, and DLP has to be mindful of when the trains stop running as more cast members use them (this is particularly a problem in Tokyo). In winter, it is too cold after dak, I have been in the parks after dark when they close at 6 or 7, and if Fanti is not running, the place is deserted. So DLP have struggled with this one. This is why they close early in the week, but finally stay open quite late at the weekends.

But even WDW has clamped down. in the 80's and 90's, the parks were open long hours. MK would be 9-midnight; Epcot (inc World Showcase) 9-Midnight/1am; MGM 10-22.  These days, unless it is EMH, the MK often closes early; Epcot opens World Showcase before lunch and closes at 9:30pm, and DHS is usually a 9-9 park.

Here is a point I have to disagree with you. We attended the Pirates and Princess Party at WDW and it was one of the most amazing things we have done at Disney. You can't compare WDW's version of the party with the one DLRP is doing tis year. The whole MK was open, all attractions were open and most of the restaurants. The CMs were dressed as pirates and they were really motivated. There were treasure hunts for children, but we and many other adults joined, Disney offered special LE pins and the firework was incredible.

We have been to WDW in January and I can't remember closed attractions while the rest of the park was open. I think most parks closed around 19:00 without EMHs. DAK closed at 18:00 due to the animals.
Fantasmic wasn't running every day, but it was worth seeing it. I wish something like that would be in Paris.

[dagobert]

I think I know what forum you are talking about. I registered once, but I have never posted, because it wasn't tolerated to say something against Disney. And it is mainly about WDW and people are very obsessed about WDW and food. I have never seen so many food trip reports.

[davewasbaloo]

Your experience and mine differed. When we went to the MK in the morning, half the attractions opened an hour to 2 hours after opening. We experienced this first hand.

Also, I was very upset as we were at WDW for 11 days, and in that whole time, there were only 3 nights where you could see Wishes, all the other nights the park closed early so they could have the Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party which would have cost us about another 150 euro for the five of us. That to me was inexcusable. The level of entertainment offered at these parties were on par with the usual special experiences in Tokyo and California that did not require an extra ticket. That said, California changed their policy last year and started doing these upcharge parties.

The ones in Paris are really rediculous as very few attractions are open, they are for a few hours aimed at kiddies, scheduled past kids' bed times. seems bonkers to me.

[dagobert]

We tried to make full use of the EMHs, especially at DAK, because of Expedition everest and Kilimajaro Safaris. Most of the time we used the EMHs in the morning to have breakfast in the park, because the US hotels didn't offer breakfast. It seems that isn't common at US DIsney resorts. So I don't know if all attractions were open in the morning. I know for sure that World Showcase at EPCOT opened an hour after Future World.

In the evening we are pretty sure that at least all rides were open. Most of the shows were already closed.

[The Helmsman]

I had the privilege to experience Disneyland Paris or better Euro Disney back  in 92, when I was 9 years old. My excitement was huge and I kept on going through the same promotional pamphlets  and brochures I had from my disney comics from 91. I didn't know what to expect from a Disney Park, but I sure got the message when I was reading these brochures. I knew that it would be more than just a regular park where you meet disney characters and do rides. I could feel and smell the atmosphere and ambiance of the different areas. Actually I was MORE excited for experiencing the different lands and their vast details and concept, than being for meeting Mickey and Co. Sure it was another reason to be REALLY glad, of meeting my favorite cartoon heroes, but my attention was focused elsewhere.
When I first entered the Park, I was simply AMAZED. It was way better than I thought and I couldn't grasp the fact that such a park actually existed. All my favorite themes together. Early century American Town, Jules Verne, H G Wells and turn of the century visionaires, Jungles from Africa, Asia and Middle East giving this 50s style of exotic adventure, Wild West of 19th century America and of course all the disney classics together and their european landscape and theme.
Everything caught my attention like small details, the music, the stories behind each land, the amazing merchandise, the restaurants etc . I guess I am making my point clear. It was all about the big and small details.I sure appreciated the subtlety with which they incorporated the characters with the park.

sadly so. In 1992, I thought that DLP was the greatest theme park on the planet, even beating my beloved Disneyland. Sadly, not as much any more. I don't know if it is the economics, the market, the lack of Walt, the management team, modern society, probably a combination of it all; but the show has sunk to the background. A new bunch of fans/management have come in and it is all about toons. I try to enjoy it, and let's face it, it is still better than most of their rivals. But i have consoled myself to the fact that my children will never grow up with the same level of quality DIsney park experience as I enjoyed. Same can be true for many other things in life, but whereas I was inspired by attractions like Adventures In Inner Space or Le Visionarium; my kids enjoy blasting Zurg or want to ride RC Racer. Sure, it is fun, but will it resonate with them in the same way when they are older? Will they outgrow Disney? I am frightened of that happening to them. Now DL in California has dumbed down too, but not to the same extent as Paris or Orlando. Be warned, I love DL and find it to be like Tivoli Gardens - a wonderful, magical oasis in an urban area. I find that is part of it's charm, along with the smaller scale park with detail around every corner. It is not on the same scale as WDW or DLP (though 2/3rds of WDW's attraction count can be found in DL/DCA - an area the size of Epcot!). I prefer quality over quantity any day.

You said the magic word...Modern Society. Plus something else...European market.

For sure I acknowledge the ongoing recession and various economic problems that we have been into for the past 20 years, the bad plan (or to put differently the high expectations early plan that Disney had for the park) etc etc.
But for me the two most important facts that have played a major role to what we see these days are modern society and european market. People in europe are not appreciative of the disney culture, they mostly see it as a cheap American thing that came to europe by the American Imperialists to invade their lives. And since the dawn of the new millennium, society has changed so much and Disney has to shift towards this direction...of low quality films, countless sequels/prequels of each disney classic concept, lower standards in parks, since there is no reason of keeping them the way they were (people don't pay attention to such things anyway). The new generations learn as Dave said how to shoot Buzz instead f having the imagination blown away from Jules Verne, learn over 2 or 3 versions of Bambi, Cinderella etc expecting that every time. It's Disney's fault as well, from taking advantage of this shift of the market and trying to gain every single penny from it. Unfortunately we are not the driving force of Disney and of the Parks when it comes to their long term sustainability. We pinpoint things that don't provide what Disney wants and Dinsey wants to attract new customers based on the current market.
Anyway that's my 2c (rant  :shock: ). I am also very pleased with all the things that they do at DLRP (maintenance) and the fact that the Park is up and running despite all the problems. I try to see the positive aspects of things and for me being able to keep going back to DLRP is a major plus. For sure nowadays the Park runs much better compared to bleak years such as early 00s. Yet I still can't grasp management's way of thinking to some things.

I've stuck to a set of mind where I still use names such as the Explorers Club and that it is an amazing table  service restaurant, Festival Disney and Team Mickey Sports, i still have the impression of Lucky Nugget saloon  having a live staged show, I keep entering the shops thinking that I'm gonna find items exclusively to them and not anywhere else, I keep thinking of visiting shops that now exist no more, feel the same urge to go to Visionarium.

Anyway...I still feel the same urge to visit Disneyland for the 10th time, probably next year!

[davewasbaloo]

Thanks for your thoughts Helmsmen. Though I think the money and leadership are the still the biggest issues. Imagine if we were getting a Grizzly Gulch or Expedition Everest, I am sure the European Market would appreciate that. A World of Colour, Fantasmic or Soarin'. All of these would perform well. The problem is, they are expensive.

there are a lot of folks who to them Disney is the toons or Ducktales comics in europe, and that is fine. But how is that different than Disney being Snow White, Peter Pan and Davy Crockett when Disneyland opened in 1955? The issue for me is the choices management make, and how they market the resort. Rather than lead and develop, they have lots of survey takers (I know, share holder value). But how many people asked Walt for some singing pirates or grim grinning ghosts? No one, they invented them.

I know it is a popular licence, but look at the buzz the Wizarding World of Harry Potter had. It is a redress of an older area of Islands of Aventure, and people are queuing for hours to go into a shop!  It is the characters sadly driving it, but it is the quality that is wowing them.

[davewasbaloo]

You know what I would love for the 20th? A return to traditional Disneyland entertainment roots. Sure, I think the characters have their place, and god knows they seemed to be adored by many, but how about instead of more lame character shoving, they focused on some of this stuff, talking about DLP's party being the biggest ever including a 20 hour party in the park:

Dapper Dans:

[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlTmaS0K2J8[/youtube:klzeu2u5]

Maybe the marching band:

[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_8W0-IBLJg[/youtube:klzeu2u5]

How about a little piano:

[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bFwDkh3sW0[/youtube:klzeu2u5]

Here's the resident swing band at Disneyland:

[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL7IFOLGiCY[/youtube:klzeu2u5]

Maybe a little Billy Hill like at Disneyland

[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WytYIehFQBQ[/youtube:klzeu2u5]

Or shows like the Golden Horseshoe Revue:

[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5b3VOXFu88[/youtube:klzeu2u5]

The Tahitian Terrace in Disneyland:

[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwQVTlHyiyI[/youtube:klzeu2u5]

Sword in the Stone Ceremony (ok, toon based, but very different than what we have today)

[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Nqv2v-xSE[/youtube:klzeu2u5]

The bands in Discoveryland:

[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvEYule6zGY[/youtube:klzeu2u5]


The former DLP Jazz Band:

[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEGN2eZTZ5Q[/youtube:klzeu2u5]

[filipv]

During the weekend of 2 and 3 April the Disney Magical Moments Festival was launched for the press and a group of fan website owners got invited as well.

...

You forgot to mention that dlrpfans.be was also there