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[Rocketeer]

There are quite a few things that 'aren't Disney'. Avatar is nothing new.

Besides the obvious LucasFilm and Marvel characters, there have been apperances by the Ninja Turtles, Ace Ventura, the Goosebumps characters and the Power Rangers (owned by the company at the time). Not to mention Disney adapatations of The Rocketeer and Dick Tracey, with the latter being very close to having an attraction in Disneyland and DHS.

So it's nothing new. However, given that the seem to be moving away from outside-IP usage, I do think Pandora could be a long shot for Paris.

I don't know if the Avatar licence is a single park deal or if it is just "theme park rights", if its for multiple locations you could then argue that they have the rights for so many years, why not use it?

[ccsvideo]

I don't think that there is any chance that all of Pandora would be copied from the US facility. Most of you probably know that the Star Wars ride is actually based on a Boeing 747 simulator and the same technology seems to be used in the Flight ride used in Avatar. It would certainly be possible to bring such a ride to the  Studios in Paris at acceptable cost as the same ride could be themed differently once the Avatar hype dies down when all the movies are released.
In the meantime Disney could benefit from Avatar as this ride could be implemented without any RD cost, given that it would be a carbon copy of the US ride. Of course there is the licensing and royalty question.

Regarding Marvel, does anybody know if the Spiderman ride from Universal Studios will ever come to a Disney park?
After all now that Disney owns Marvel, and thus the right to the Spiderman universe, wouldn't it be logical to profit from this ride's great success. Yes, it's a few years old but I still believe that it's actually one of the best rides at Universal Studios Florida. The ride requires wearing 3D glasses. That's why in this clip, the 3D parts are out of focus.

Regarding Star Wars at Disneyland Paris, come one Disney you can do so much better than just the soldiers parade / ballet which we currently witness. Yes I know there is the Star Wars simulator ride at Disneyland (R) Paris. It doesn't do the franchise justice, there is so much more potential. I know the park is cash strapped but here's an idea... team up with Sony and Microsoft and have them bring a few PS4 and Xboxes with the latest Star Wars games into the park, set up a tent with bring screen TVs and let the kids have some fun. Or install a few of the Starwars arcade games that are at Disney Quest in Orlando.  I personally can't get enough of Starwars and would love to see a few characters from that universe in the Studios as well.

I know that this idea may not sit well with many here in the Forum but I believe that Disney needs to build partnerships with major corporations and bring them into the facility as paying sponsors just like Mike Eisner and Frank Wells did in the US. In fact all of Epcot is built on that concept. Why not do the same in Paris.

I understand the frustration of the one reader who says that more Disney is needed in Disneyland as well and I agree. I can't understand why the hugely popular Ariel character and her greeting Pavilion hasn't been brought to Paris. That would be so much fun for the kids and it would virtually cost peanuts to set it up.

Fantasyland has been revamped completely in Orlando and the dwarf's mine ride is quite sensational

Compare that with the little boat ride in Paris. Every  attraction has its fans and I'm sure that that ride has loyal patrons as well. But is that really up to Disney standards? Same goes for the Circus train ride. Those are attractions I expect to find in my local neighborhood park. And there's your room to put a new ride into Fantasyland.

Other than that, I don't think it would be possible to bring the Jungle cruise to Paris because that takes up a huge amount of space. Same goes for Splash Mountain. I just don't see where they could put it.

Generally speaking having just started to visit Paris, I feel that the facility is overdue for a major overhaul and that there should be more and more innovative rides now that Disney has no excuse for not investing into Paris.
In a way, the Paris facility is where Florida was 25 years ago, less a few major rides. That's fine if the park is only meant to be drawing crowds from Europe but there's a drawback to that. Brexit will make it more costly for the Brits to come to Europe and with lowcost transatlantic flights now about to become available, why should they come to Paris when they could just as easily go to Florida. EuroDisney is dead, vive Disneyland (R) Paris. But what sets DLP apart from all the other parks? What's special about it, why would the worldwide Disney fan base consider a detour to Paris?
Right now, the only thing that comes to mind is Hyperspace Mountain. But that's not enough.

I'm going off thread here but hopefully this is of interest as well.

When Disney first introduced Soarin' at the Garden pavilion at Epcot, it was branded as a fabulous innovation and it became one of the leading attractions in the park with an average waiting time of over two hours.

Why does Disney allow one of its major competitors in an important European market (Europapark in Germany) to outshine them with Voletarium which to me is a carbon copy of Soarin' on a different set.

Here's an early promo video from Europapark. The ride is now open. It's crazy, even the flying theater looks exactly the same than the one at Disney's Soarin'

Disney has shown what can be done by turning Space Mountain into Hyperspace Mountain, a fantastic ride and hopefully we'll see major improvements of that kind. But we also need brand-new rides. It was Disney's "birthright" to bring Soarin' to Paris, rather than letting that brilliant ride go to a German park.

Of course I know that the park has operated near a financial abyss for so may years but now its Disney 100%. Disney is hugely profitable. There is no excuse not to further develop and enhance the Paris resort.

Somebody mentioned Frozen. Just as with Ariel, why not have a greeting pavilion with some of the Frozen characters somewhere at Disneyland Paris or better yet a new ride as well. In Orlando the beloved Norwegian ride was just transformed into Frozen. Heck, where's the creativity in Paris?

I know, the park is losing money. But when you're Disney that's no excuse.

Getting back to Avatar, yes I do believe that the Flight ride would make sense at Paris as well for a few years at least, given that the new Avatar movies will be released soon. As to needed real espace to build that ride, there is a huge area in front of the Star Wars stage. Build something there. But then again, it may just be a rumour out of Orlando.

[A&S&O]

I know, the park is losing money. But when you're Disney that's no excuse.

I'm not convinced the park is/was losing money. It made an operating profit, but that was wiped out by loan and IP repayments - mostly to TWDC.

It's a bit like the Starbucks / Google / etc. method of (not) paying tax or shareholders dividends.

[ccsvideo]

Not sure about licensing. I think Disney voided the licensing dues for a few years to keep EuroDisney afloat (update - they voided two years of licensing and management fees after they were taken to court by Hedge Fund CIAM). I'll do some more research into this but it makes sense to me. If you're a franchisee and you fail,  the licensing company will let you go under without worrying too much, but if you have the Disney name on your door, then that just can't happen. It would hurt the brand-name too much worldwide.

http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_chief1/b/jim_hill/archive/2012/09/09/barack-obama-amp-joe-biden-came-to-new-hampshire-and-i-got-was-this-horrible-sunburn.aspx

from that site:
-> begin quote
... Anyway ... During our 20 minute-long talk, he and I covered an awful lot of Disney-related turf. And eventually the topic of the then-still-struggling Parisian theme park and resort campaign. And Roy (Disney) (as you might expect) laid the failure of that project right at Michael Eisner's feet....
<- end quote

Disney had to inject emergency cash of over a billion Dollars into Disneyland Paris in 2014.

http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/disney-sets-1-25-billion-bailout-plan-for-disneyland-paris-1201322300/

Disney has been substantially hurt by the EuroDisney financial disaster. Some of my contacts in the Walt Disney Company claim that the funds that went into EuroDisney should have gone into improvements and additions at the other parks.

I know that there has been this rumor in France that Disney has been sucking EuroDisney dry with licensing and management fees but I doubt that was the case in the last few years, especially after the CIAM lawsuit.

I completely understand that EuroDisney shareholders were upset with the 2 Euros per share offer and the subsequent squeeze out, but by all normal accounting measures that was a generous offer given the huge operational loss  in 2016 and the huge debt the resort is settled with right now.

Fortunately that all disappears in the overall balance sheet of the Walt Disney Company now and there is room for new life at the Paris facility. But shareholders are watching closely where we go from here and Disneyland Paris needs to do much better quickly or Mike Eisner will not have been the only one who's career was impacted by EuroDisney / Disneyland Paris.

Whenever Disney invested into new rides and attractions, it paid off.. in all the parks. They should do that in Paris as well.

[ccsvideo]

Here's an update on the question of licensing and management fees.
from
http://www.cityam.com/266635/taking-mickey-mouse-walt-disney-co-delists-euro-disney

-> begin quote
The French business (EuroDisney aka DLP) was still indebted by almost €1.2bn at the end of March this year.

Yet figures emerged in December revealing that Walt Disney had charged its Parisian offspring nearly €1bn in licensing fees over the past decade.

Hedge fund CIAM, which owned a small minority stake, launched an ongoing lawsuit to challenge the fees.

Perhaps prompted by the disgruntled shareholders, Walt Disney Co. agreed to waive two years' worth of royalties and management fees at the end of last year to provide extra liquidity.
-> end quote

In other news, I also read that the Walt Disney Company had agreed to have payment of loans it provided to EuroDisney / DLP postponed until 2024. Of course that's now history as well.

[Andybear]

Avatar isn't even Disney so no it does not belong at any Disney park. It doesn't even belong in Animal Kingdom!!    They have a wide range of Disney movies they need to do more with them!

And Star Wars and Marvel are Disney?!

[*TIMMIE*]

Yes. WDC bought Lucasfilm (Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Etc) and Marvel several years ago.

It was once mentioned Avatar would come to WDS if it was to be a success in AK, but that was prior the new strategy of the use of Disneys' own IP's. The first priority for DLP is to fix the WDS with an enhanced Hollywoodstreet (killing Art of Animation for F&B and gifts) and replacing backlot with Marvel. This last one started with replacing Cinémagique with a Marvel show. Next phase should be the replacing of Armageddon (meet and greet??) and Disney Junior Live (said to start in 2018). Followed by RnRC (Spider-Man or GotG layover) and Moteurs. Completed by a new Marvel e-ticket around 2022-2024. No ToT replacement with GotG; mission breakout is planned (for now). This plan is basically not changed since WDC bought the final shares. So based on existing budgets and strategy.

Also a Star Wars Galaxy Edge is being considered / planned for either WDS or behind Discoveryland. First plans are several years old as an article on Disney & More described this in one of his blogs. In short; Star Tours 2 has been done as well as the transformation of Start Traders into a meet & Greet, a new gift shop and a temporarely Jedi Academy (another show for this stage is said to be in planning). But once there were more plans for this area. The Discoveryland theatre would host a more permanent version of the Jedi Academy. Beside the theatre there would be a walk through replica of the Millenium Falcon and a canteena restaurant. Next to Star Tours - on the spot once envisioned for Toon Town - there would rise an e-ticket. But these are plans from the past. They chose to do the obvious and do a last minute Hyperspace Mountain (the return of de la terre de la lune was soooo close ).

I think they are testing the Star Wars brand with the new season of the force and Hyperspace Mountain. If succesfull....

[Rocketeer]

Apparently 'Uncle' Bob hinted in a recent interview that there could be more Avatarlands added to other resorts in the World. This doesn't mean it's a definate go for DLP, but then I wouldn't completely rule it out.

It could mean WDS, or a part of a third park, or even not Paris at all. Maybe Hong Kong or even Shanghai.

[claire2281]

No way is Avatar coming to WDS. The 'secret' plans are pretty widely known to be turning the left hand side of the Studios into a Marvel area. Armageddon, Art of Animation and Disney Junior are the next to be converted after the former Cinemagique is finished.

The right hand side is basically a Pixar land at the moment which they can basically leave as is apart from cosmetic touches and that only leaves ToT and the tram tour. Nothing really needs doing to ToT as it's a great version of the attraction and has found further use now as a backdrop for the projection shows. Tram tour desperately needs work but it seems to be lower on the priority list right now.

The Christmas offerings and the Season of the Force shows that DLP are serious about sorting WDS out imo.

As for the main park, I think SW land attached to Discoveryland would be outstanding and would allow SM to return to its former themeing. Nothing SW they've put in can't be easily removed. The new trains are noticeably steampunk in style which does make me think this overlay was always meant to be a stop gap. There are rumours that both Snow White and Pinocchio will go to be replaced by essentially a large Princess Pavilion. Whilst they're both very outdated now it seems a pity to lose two rides. I'd rather see the Frozen ride there instead.

[Rocketeer]

Well I don't take the comments to mean its actually happening, nor that it would definately be for WDS. It was more of a hint that it could be added anywhere.

As of right now, Paris has much a chance as the other three resorts of getting it - based only on the fact that it was a vauge comment.

I still don't see the Na'vi setting up camp in Paris - or if they do, they've got to wait for Marvel and Star Wars to get done first.

[Rocketeer]

Although this project still seems unlikely, there's an announcement due Thursday that could effect this.

How? Disney is set to buy 21st Century Fox. And potentially one of the things it aquires is Avatar.

This doesn't mean that it will automatically happen, but it makes it a little easier to duplicate Pandora:The World of Avatar if they want (as they would own the IP).

[Jules Verne]

well this seems like a likely thing to happen, it seems like the studios has the potential to be over crowded with rides now

1 month ago i would of said its unlikely that we would see pandora at WDS now it seems like an inevitability

[claire2281]

I still consider it very unlikely. Even with the new films coming out Avatar isn't a big franchise - the main reason the first film did so well was the novelty of the 3D, not the quality of the film itself.

Disney owns far bigger franchises that would prove a better draw - why would you choose Avatar when you have Marvel and Star Wars?

[Rocketeer]

^I agree, out of the three franchises you mention, Avatar is the least likely to be a draw. Sure there will be hype for Avatar 2 when it finally gets made, but that will be in part due to it being the sequel to the over hyped first film.

Surely there's not enough room for more than one franshise-land in WDS either, so that option is out of the window also.

Here's a curveball though... what if something from Pandora does make it to the Studios? The Flight of Passage tech could surely be adapted to another theme? Just which, that's the question.

[ilovemainstxxx]

We went to Orlando this year for the first time and i would love it if Pandora came to Paris....
We loved everything about Orlando and loved all the parks , (MK was a bit of a let down though, nowhere near as beautiful as DLP)..We went to WDW , Universal and Sea world but Pandora was something else , the whole area was fantastic ,both rides the restaurant everything ,  it was breathtaking...The flight of passage ride was the best thing about it though ...I literally came off it speechless , it was amazing ,words cannot describe it.....My 11 year old nephew has never seen the film and again it was his favourite thing and he went on every ride there..