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[smurfy74]

in my humble opinion both should live hand in hand, i go to Disney like aveen to see my fave characters, but I love the theming of the non character attractions. I like the way things are evolving and I look forward to more characters, but in their place. I understand that new attractions need to get the crowds and TOT has done this but so has crush. I think adding Mickey and his friends adds to a tired attraction and will hopefully add to the profitability of the park. If it fails then i believe bbwws will bid a fond farewell to Paris

[Aveen2008]

Ummmm, Aveen, no disrespect, but this whole Disney film tie in culture has only been a very small part of Disney's theme park history. For the first 40 years of Disney theme park history it was about telling a story and making you feel like you were in a different place. This is why I hate what is happening at the parks and with fans (no disrespect to you, we all have different tastes).

The characters until recently was always just a very small part. Now it is becoming the main focus, and I hate that.

I fell in love with DL for attractions like Phantom Manor and PotC, Le Visionarium, and Big Thunder Mountain.  I couldn't care less if I ever saw anything character orientated, and I have always felt this way.

I'm afraid I have to agree. To define "Disney" as "having a Fab Five tie-in" seems to me terribly misguided.

to Davewasbaloo: I can understand what your saying and I mean no disprect in my reply but I feel I must give my opinon on your answer as it was directed at me... So much of the park is in fact tied in with Disney, you seem to forget nearly all the rides in fantasyland link with a disney films, what about the buzz ride, crush coaster, cars rally, aladdins magic carpets, aladdins walk through.. the shops are full of disney merchandise and the park is a disney themed park, if people came with the intension of just going to a theme park they would go to astrix (not sure of spelling) or Alton towers etc.
Disney started with mickey mouse, it started with a character and I just really can't see how you see it as so insignificant and that characters and Disney itself is not what may appeal to many people. I can understand many of the attractions aren't disney themed at all like space mountain and I think it's good that there are ones that arent film related or anything but I think most people, especialy the mass population who come with children do so for the magic brought from the Disney aspect, which yes started with films and characters but also brought magic with it. I agree that people come for the magic of feeling in a different place, a different world nearly, its a magical place but it is disneyland resort paris and i think we should all accept that Disney plays a part. Maybe it will make the wild west show worse, im saying not it's going to be the right move but they must want to try it for some reason.

Pussin boots also, I dont want to neglect your reply, I don't mean to say that the fab 5 actually have to be tied in but what I was saying is that perhaps with them this will bring more guests...obviously the disney company themselves think this is an appropriate move, probably because the show is falling in numbers and profits.

[ford prefect]

So many people are fond of quoting Walt: "Never forget, it was all started by a mouse"  Or words to that general effect.

Indeed, a lot of people have that quote as their signature on the forums.

This year is about celebrating Mickey.I seem to remember people complaining a few years ago that Disney did not celebrate his 75th.

Talk about being trapped between a rock and a hard place.

Personally, I am looking forward to seeing the changes to BBWWS and have booked for July.  

Davewasbaloo:  Your story based attractions are untouched:  Indeed the whole of Frontierland and Adventureland are unsullied by toons.  You can still take flight to the stars in Discoveryland without Mickey pressing the launch button and Autopia lets you drive to Solaria without Goofy by your side. Even the planets of Orbitron seem to be avoiding Donald.  Star Tours bypasses Pluto and Honey I shrunk the Audience met Minnie once at a party and has never been troubled by her since!

Joking to one side, generally I agree that Disney has changed.  The parks and service are not what they were and prices are higher.

However, I love Disney, from the toons to Phantom Manor.  I will go and see the new stuff and smile.  That alone is worth the money.

[katiefairy]

=D> well said

[davewasbaloo]

Aveen, most of the attractions you mentioned were built in the last 10 years. The bottom line is the last 10 years Disney has moved away from it's roots, and the masses seem to love it and want more. And because of that I am less likely to go.

To put Alton Towers and Parc Asterix in the same zone though is laughable. Disney has always been the best THEME park on the planet. Now they are trying to be a TOON park, to the point that with that, coupled with the rising costs and lower quality service and maintenance means I am less likely to spend my money there.

I come onto the web hoping to see a glimour of the Disney I fell in love with 30+ years ago, and the DLP that had me druelling 17 years ago (when the only toons were in Fantasyland, the parade and meet and greets - just how I like it). Those days are gone (hoped when ToT appeared, it was a return to form). And the fans have changed.

I am getting old I suppose. But it really hurts. Now I know what the old folks felt like when Vaudeville died  :cry:

[Aveen2008]

Aveen, most of the attractions you mentioned were built in the last 10 years. The bottom line is the last 10 years Disney has moved away from it's roots, and the masses seem to love it and want more. And because of that I am less likely to go.

To put Alton Towers and Parc Asterix in the same zone though is laughable. Disney has always been the best THEME park on the planet. Now they are trying to be a TOON park, to the point that with that, coupled with the rising costs and lower quality service and maintenance means I am less likely to spend my money there.

I come onto the web hoping to see a glimour of the Disney I fell in love with 30+ years ago, and the DLP that had me druelling 17 years ago (when the only toons were in Fantasyland, the parade and meet and greets - just how I like it). Those days are gone (hoped when ToT appeared, it was a return to form). And the fans have changed.

I am getting old I suppose. But it really hurts. Now I know what the old folks felt like when Vaudeville died  :cry:

I guess we all have different tastes:), I have been a disney fan all my life. I wish that the Paris park (which is the only one I am refering to in my comments) still held the magic for you, I am sorry it doesn't and that you don't really like the changes...I guess we all go for different reasons and that's what it boils down to. I guess with the changes being popular and in demand it only makes sense that Disneyland Paris increase this type of programme. I know that Alton towers and Astrex are nothing in comparison, they aren't the same legue really at all but I was just saying that if people just want theme park rides that have nothing to do with disney then people would go there but most families want to have the disney element too.
Most of the attractions you like have remained untouched by the toon element and they probably won't ever have one so at least that's something positive for you to consider. I hope the changes won't stop you from going to Disneyland Paris.

best of luck to you, thanks for the wee debate :wink:

[Willow]

Majority rules. Disney would risk losing a few visitors to gain many more with character-based attractions.

Its simple business.

[RnRCj]

Majority rules. Disney would risk losing a few visitors to gain many more with character-based attractions.

Its simple business.

And it's quite upsetting really. Disney used to dream up amazing things and make them reality. Now they just make whatever is cheapest and easiest... and it HAS to have a toon tagged on the end. :roll:

I am always hoping that one day they will realise the mistakes they've made within the last few years.

[Aveen2008]

Majority rules. Disney would risk losing a few visitors to gain many more with character-based attractions.

Its simple business.

And it's quite upsetting really. Disney used to dream up amazing things and make them reality. Now they just make whatever is cheapest and easiest... and it HAS to have a toon tagged on the end. :roll:

I am always hoping that one day they will realise the mistakes they've made within the last few years.

Can i just ask, when people are refering to things becoming "toon tagged" is it the characters you disagree with like costumed characters I mean or do you mean that you would rather things weren't disney related at all for example meaning you dont really like things like crush coaster or the cars rally being created based on the film?

Hope people understand what I mean? :?  lol I am just interested in the different views

[RnRCj]

Can i just ask, when people are refering to things becoming "toon tagged" is it the characters you disagree with like costumed characters I mean or do you mean that you would rather things weren't disney related at all for example meaning you dont really like things like crush coaster or the cars rally being created based on the film?

Hope people understand what I mean? :?  lol I am just interested in the different views

I think there is just an overuse of characters at the moment. They're being used almost all the time, and sometimes in places where it is completely unnecessary.

For example, we have Buzz Lightyear in Discoveryland which doesn't make sense at all. Don't get me wrong - I like the attraction itself - but in Discoveryland it's just looks and feels stupid. It doesn't fit. Same with Woody's Roundup in Frontierland. I mean, what do plastic toys have to do with Frontierland at all? Mickey in the Wild West show, again, doesn't make sense. There's no need for him being there. It's just more proof that they have to tag a toon on the end of everything.

I am not completely against characters being used in the parks though - they are an essential part of the Disney experience! But I don't go to Disneyland just for the characters, and I certainly don't want to see them "taking over" areas that weren't built for them. And it's not like toons draw more people in either. I mean, look at Tower Of Terror - it attracted more people than ever to the resort, and not a toon in sight! :wink:

If everything in the parks had to be Disney related we wouldn't have Main Street USA, we wouldn't have Frontierland, we wouldn't have Adventureland, we wouldn't have Discoveryland, and even Fantasyland would be nothing like it is today. Even Sleeping Beauty Castle would be completely different too, because right now it's not exactly Disney related - it was a specially designed castle just for the park. :wink:

I don't think the toon problem lies with the Imagineers though. In fact, I have complete faith that they could still create an amazing Disney attraction like Big Thunder Mountain or Pirates of the Caribbean. I think they're just being "forced" to put characters in whatever they create nowadays.

[Aveen2008]

Can i just ask, when people are refering to things becoming "toon tagged" is it the characters you disagree with like costumed characters I mean or do you mean that you would rather things weren't disney related at all for example meaning you dont really like things like crush coaster or the cars rally being created based on the film?

Hope people understand what I mean? :?  lol I am just interested in the different views

I think there is just an overuse of characters at the moment. They're being used almost all the time, and sometimes in places where it is completely unnecessary.

For example, we have Buzz Lightyear in Discoveryland which doesn't make sense at all. Don't get me wrong - I like the attraction itself - but in Discoveryland it's just looks and feels stupid. It doesn't fit. Same with Woody's Roundup in Frontierland. I mean, what do plastic toys have to do with Frontierland at all? Mickey in the Wild West show, again, doesn't make sense. There's no need for him being there. It's just more proof that they have to tag a toon on the end of everything.

I am not completely against characters being used in the parks though - they are an essential part of the Disney experience! But I don't go to Disneyland just for the characters, and I certainly don't want to see them "taking over" areas that weren't built for them. And it's not like toons draw more people in either. I mean, look at Tower Of Terror - it attracted more people than ever to the resort, and not a toon in sight! :wink:

If everything in the parks had to be Disney related we wouldn't have Main Street USA, we wouldn't have Frontierland, we wouldn't have Adventureland, we wouldn't have Discoveryland, and even Fantasyland would be nothing like it is today. Even Sleeping Beauty Castle would be completely different too, because right now it's not exactly Disney related - it was a specially designed castle just for the park. :wink:

I don't think the toon problem lies with the Imagineers though. In fact, I have complete faith that they could still create an amazing Disney attraction like Big Thunder Mountain or Pirates of the Caribbean. I think they're just being "forced" to put characters in whatever they create nowadays.

I can see what you mean definately, thanks for explaining to me your feelings o the matter . I guess Buzz relates to Discoverland because he's like a space ranger and kind of a futuristic character and woody's roundup fitted best in fronterland with the kinda ranchy/cowboy western look of it - this is my guess but I know what your saying also, I don't think I would want characters involved everywhere either but so far I am happy enough with the changes...except I think the stitch dance thing looks ridiculous and unnesscary- although that's just my opinion.  

[lil-shawn]

I think there is just an overuse of characters at the moment. They're being used almost all the time, and sometimes in places where it is completely unnecessary.

For example, we have Buzz Lightyear in Discoveryland which doesn't make sense at all. Don't get me wrong - I like the attraction itself - but in Discoveryland it's just looks and feels stupid. It doesn't fit. Same with Woody's Roundup in Frontierland. I mean, what do plastic toys have to do with Frontierland at all? Mickey in the Wild West show, again, doesn't make sense. There's no need for him being there. It's just more proof that they have to tag a toon on the end of everything.

I am not completely against characters being used in the parks though - they are an essential part of the Disney experience! But I don't go to Disneyland just for the characters, and I certainly don't want to see them "taking over" areas that weren't built for them. And it's not like toons draw more people in either. I mean, look at Tower Of Terror - it attracted more people than ever to the resort, and not a toon in sight!  

If everything in the parks had to be Disney related we wouldn't have Main Street USA, we wouldn't have Frontierland, we wouldn't have Adventureland, we wouldn't have Discoveryland, and even Fantasyland would be nothing like it is today. Even Sleeping Beauty Castle would be completely different too, because right now it's not exactly Disney related - it was a specially designed castle just for the park.  

I don't think the toon problem lies with the Imagineers though. In fact, I have complete faith that they could still create an amazing Disney attraction like Big Thunder Mountain or Pirates of the Caribbean. I think they're just being "forced" to put characters in whatever they create nowadays.

i completly argee with you in every point, when i was in DLRP with a few friends
(all of them are not really disney fans) just told me after the visit, to manny toons!
i think its not true that just toon based attractions bring in all the visitors, its the quality
and the feeling. but what happen is that the most effects won´t work anymore, some attractions really need soe fresh paint, the entertainment is as bad as in a cheap theme park.

i was o the weekend at europapark, and i think right now they have really great
shows, better than the stuff disney do at the moment.. i never liked europapark, cause they
copy disney, but the shows they have are fantastic, disney produce some stupid shows for this year.
disney want a lot of money and all what you get is bad quality, i think they have to change
something right now, stop the plan for toy story playland and paint the castle, refresh
the hotel rooms, fixing some effects and produce petter shows or whatever bring
back the quality from the past. i want something for my money i spend!!!

[davewasbaloo]

RnRCJ said exactly how I feel. Disney used to be about creating a sense of place, a way to tell a story. And just like movies and books, there are many stories to be told. Sadly Disney is just refering to the toons across the globe these days and that is the problem.

The characters certainly do have their place and are a part of the story. But when the focus is just on the characters, then I think they have crossed the line. And lately they have.

In many respects, BBWWS is more aligned to something Walt would have produced than Toon Studios or the MMP event. That is what the let's put the Walt back in Disney campaign is all about. It's about getting Disney to tell stories again rather than rely on the toons.

Once upon a time I liked the characters too. But just like the time at college where I drank too much Baileys, I can't touch the stuff now. Makes me sick. And sadly, so do the toons.

If Disney were smart, they should cash on this toon stuff by opening Cafe Mickey's around Europe, and then reduce the tooning a little at the resort. Make us all happy.

Meet and greets and the odd character meal, I have no issue with. But when it is at the expense of theme, non toon themed live entertainment, or every attraction revolves around them, then it makes my blood boil.

It was attractions like PotC that made Disney parks a world wide phenomina. If it were all about toons from the beginning, I doubt we would have ever had a DLP. Look at how badly HKDL is performing for instance.

It is the signature e-tickets, the attention to detail theming, the live entertainment, the service standards, the maintenance and cleanliness with some characters dotted around that make the Disney magic. Sadly, the focus of Disney (at DL, WDW, DLP, HKDL and now TDL) today is just really on the toons and enough to get by on the other stuff. That is why I get so angry with the company and the fans that support this behaviour.

But I have given up. It seems like there is no chance to turn back. The crowds have spoken. But just like the fads dies on leg warmers and Hard Rock Cafe's, I worry whether Disney would weather the storm.

I just find it ironic that Marriott Resorts are more themed than the stuff Disney is producing lately.

[djdisney]

I just find it ironic that Marriott Resorts are more themed than the stuff Disney is producing lately.

I agree with you exactly and yeah the toons seem to be taking over, there is nothing now that does not have a toon in it im sure?

[davewasbaloo]

Let's do a tally of stuff recently opened or due to open - toon 53 and non 10 (even when DLP opened, the only toon attractions in Disney's 4 resorts lived in Fantasyland or Splash Mountain):

DLP:  Toons 12, Non 2
Woody's Roundup
Mickey show on stage
Stitch thing
Playhouse Disney (for the record I kind of like and feel is appropriate)
Stitch Live
Crush Coaster
Cars
ToT
Toy Story Area
Mickey in Buffalo Bills
Toonvasion of the Lucky Nugget
Buzz
SM MIssion 2 (not as good as the original either)
Princess meal at Auberge

DL (the original) Toons: 20, non 1
The BBQ restaurant with show (toon)
Nemo Subs
Pirate's Island (not toons, but still synergy)
IASW upgrade starring the toons
Princess Fairy Faire
Pixie Hollow
Buzz
Redline Trolly
Monsters Inc (cool ride though it is)
Turtle Talk with Crush
Little Mermaid Attraction
World of Colour
Toy Story Mania
Goofy Coaster
Silly Symphony Swings
Mickey on the Sunwheel
Carsland (4 attractions, though they look like fun, they didn't have to be toonified)
Tarzan Tree House

WDW: Toons 12, non 4
Philharmagic
Pooh Playground
Characters in the castle restaurant
Stitch Encounter
MILF
Rumoured new character attractions for the MK
The Seas with Nemo and Friends
Soarin'
Mission Space
Princesses at Akershus
Kim Possible Adventure
Toy Story Mania
Lights Motors Action (though Herbie is in it will count non toon)
Expedition Everest
Nemo musical
Character meal at Tusker House

TDL: 5 toon, 1 non
Monsters Inc
Buzz
World of Colour
Turtle Talk with Crush
Toy Story Mania
ToT

HKDL toon 4 non, 2 not
Stitch Live
IASW with toons
Drawn to Animation
Mickey's House
Autopia
Spaceship Fountains (very toony)

Now considering before 1989, the only toon attractions were in Fantasyland DL, MK and TDL. Then Splash Mountain opened. Epcot had no toons other than meet and greets (and was awesome) In 1992, DLP opened with all the toons in Fantasyland also (the way I like it). But Toontown opened in DL, spreading toons further. And now they have taken over the place.

Bear in mind I have been a fan of the Disney THEME PARK experience since 1974, this is why I really hate what is happening. Nothing against the toons on their own, but when you look at this trajectory, it is rediculous IMHO.

Hopefully now you can see why some of us are really grumpy about this stuff.

And how many of those toon attractions are of the quality of PotC, PM, BTMRR or IASW? A few, but not many.