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[Josh]

The point of Disneyland was that adults and children would be targeted as equals. While the management may think differently these days, children being the main target audience is not part of Disney's ethos.

[DutchBrit]

The point of Disneyland was that adults and children would be targeted as equals. While the management may think differently these days, children being the main target audience is not part of Disney's ethos.

However the management decide what the "ethos" is now. In the 50s maybe it didn't work to aim commercial enterprises at a child audience, but that is not the case 60 years later. And the perception of Disney in general is child-centric, like it or not.

I don't go to Straford on Avon to watch the roles of Hamlet and Horatio played by Barney and Bear, or go to Covent Garden to listen to Mr Tumble. So adults should not be going to Disneyland expecting Sir Ian McKellan giving his interpretation of Captain Hook as written by Harold Pinter etc.

Sometimes the attitude on here seems to be postively anti-child, as if they have no right to go to Disneyland! It's like these rather peculiar people who have enormous train sets and doll collections: as if they just can't bear to leave childhood things behind, so they pretend that childhood things are adult ones. It's not how things are meant to be.

[Anthony]

Sometimes the attitude on here seems to be postively anti-child, as if they have no right to go to Disneyland! It's like these rather peculiar people who have enormous train sets and doll collections: as if they just can't bear to leave childhood things behind, so they pretend that childhood things are adult ones. It's not how things are meant to be.

Ouch. To break out a Walt Disney quote:

Over at our place, we're sure of just one thing: everybody in the world was once a child. So in planning a new picture, we don't think of grown-ups, and we don't think of children, but just of that fine, clean, unspoiled spot down deep in every one of us that maybe the world has made us forget and that maybe our pictures can help recall.

Your Hamlet analogy is missing the point. It's not about making Disneyland highbrow, it's about making sure they don't pander down purely to children, alienating everyone else and probably patronising children in the process.

It just wouldn't work for a sprawling theme park resort like this to dumb down to a "primary audience" like that, and Disney do know it. They may have forgotten it on occasion or gone for the easy, patronising route with some entertainment, but ultimately they know they need a more substantial product than that.

Disneyland should treat children with respect, not the condescension they can feel in the real world, while reigniting a sense of child-like wonder in adults; ultimately bringing both together to meet in the middle. That's where the success (and the money) lies. Look at any Pixar film. As Meph says, everyone is equal in Disneyland.

This seems a bit of a moot point this year anyway. We've moved on from Mickey's Magical Party, thank god. And in my opinion, Disney Dreams is absolutely classic, pure Disney in its fusion of crowd-pleasing animated characters and music with geek-pleasing technology. It panders to no-one, it plays to everyone. It represents that Walt Disney quote down to the ground, probably better than anything else Disneyland Paris has done in the past decade.

[DutchBrit]

we're sure of just one thing: everybody in the world was once a child. So in planning a new picture, we don't think of grown-ups, and we don't think of children, but just of that fine, clean, unspoiled spot down deep in every one of us

So the bottom line is that Disney is meant to appeal to children and the children still inside many adults. That still means children. So frequent complaints about things that most children love, i.e characters, links to the films, bright and simple shows are missing that very important point, in my opinion.

Nothing at all wrong with loving Disney as an adult (or dolls and trains for that matter!). As long as we remember that we as adults are only borrowing it. The magic belongs to the children.

[Lorum]

This seems a bit of a moot point this year anyway. We've moved on from Mickey's Magical Party, thank god. And in my opinion, Disney Dreams is absolutely classic, pure Disney in its fusion of crowd-pleasing animated characters and music with geek-pleasing technology. It panders to no-one, it plays to everyone. It represents that Walt Disney quote down to the ground, probably better than anything else Disneyland Paris has done in the past decade.

Absolutely brilliant. The perfect definition.

Nothing at all wrong with loving Disney as an adult (or dolls and trains for that matter!). As long as we remember that we as adults are only borrowing it. The magic belongs to the children.

The magic belongs to those who still "keep on believing". Sometimes life makes us lose our dreams. Adults are characterised by their overly rational thought and have forgotten their capacity to dream so as not to suffer. Walt Disney wanted to get into guests' hearts by creating special moments and unforgettable memories. A place like no other on Earth where adults could forget their problems and live their own dreams.

You don't get that thinking as a child. Because children don't know anything about hopes. Does a child understand Mufasa's death? No, and it's Disney, right? "Up", "Bamby", "Peter Pan"?

When Walt said "Disneyland is your land", he didn't mean "Disneyland is children's land".

Excuse my English but it's hard to express something so complex in another language.

[ford prefect]

Well said Lorum.  Disney is for everyone.  The whole ethos of Disneyland came about because Walt wanted somewhere he could play together as a family.

[DutchBrit]

You don't get that thinking as a child. Because children don't know anything about hopes. Does a child understand Mufasa's death? No, and it's Disney, right? "Up", "Bamby", "Peter Pan"?

On the contrary. Children know all about hope. What they don't know is that it often doesn't work. And incidently children do understand the concept of death once they get to about 5 and it's dealt with in "child-friendly" terms in all the films you mention because it was expected by the makers that children would make up the majority of the audience . Perhaps "Up" stretched that to teenager, but still.

The thing is children REALLY believe. They think magic is really possible. Most adults can only pretend to do that. So who's the most important here? I think the children. It's their realm: adults can only visit and therefore should not expect to be the ruling class. Its nice if everyone likes it, but if kids do and adults don't: tough luck adults.

[Lorum]

Walt wanted somewhere he could play together as a family.

Exactly. Remember that Walt Disney wasn't just a dreamer, he was also a philosopher, a thinker, an innovator.

[ford prefect]

You don't get that thinking as a child. Because children don't know anything about hopes. Does a child understand Mufasa's death? No, and it's Disney, right? "Up", "Bamby", "Peter Pan"?

On the contrary. Children know all about hope. What they don't know is that it often doesn't work. And incidently children do understand the concept of death once they get to about 5 and it's dealt with in "child-friendly" terms in all the films you mention because it was expected by the makers that children would make up the majority of the audience . Perhaps "Up" stretched that to teenager, but still.

The thing is children REALLY believe. They think magic is really possible. Most adults can only pretend to do that. So who's the most important here? I think the children. It's their realm: adults can only visit and therefore should not expect to be the ruling class. Its nice if everyone likes it, but if kids do and adults don't: tough luck adults.

Magic happens if you want it to.  Forget conjuring tricks and fairy princess and fanciful tales.  Disney isn't ABOUT any of those.

Disney is about telling stories and creating a place where the emotions of those stories have free reign.

Those stories can be about a dad spending time in a queue with his child waiting for a ride and having a thumb war, it can be the parents finding little treasures of details from their childhood stories.

There is too much cynicism in the world and it infects all of us.  Disneyland is an antidote to cynicism if you want it to be, or it can reinforce it if you only look to the traditional adult role of supervisor, not participant.

Disneyland and its inhabitants are as real as I am.  It is a step into a fantasy world that is created by adults based on our memories that our parents created.  If that isn't magic then I don't know what is.

[Anthony]

The thing is children REALLY believe. They think magic is really possible. Most adults can only pretend to do that. So who's the most important here? I think the children. It's their realm: adults can only visit and therefore should not expect to be the ruling class. Its nice if everyone likes it, but if kids do and adults don't: tough luck adults.

I think that just reinforces the argument that you need to play to adults as much as children. Children will believe anything, they're happy with the simplest of things. Adults are tougher to please, but ultimately they're the ones who open their wallets for a trip to Disneyland. There's a certain amount of "ok, I'll pay if it makes the kids happy", but ultimately adults will only return to Disneyland and truly enjoy it (read: open their wallets wider) if they experience that sense of wonder just as much themselves.

As I said before, I think with recent changes this has become an unnecessary argument anyway. Even if the advertising is a bit off, DLP is doing a great job playing to all audiences this year. Probably, with it being an anniversary (desperately tries to drag this on-topic), they're hoping to reconnect with a slightly older audience who maybe visited the resort a while ago and are long overdue a return. It seems to be working.

[Lorum]

Magic happens if you want it to. Forget conjuring tricks and fairy princess and fanciful tales. Disney isn't ABOUT any of those.

Disney is about telling stories and creating a place where the emotions of those stories have free reign.

Those stories can be about a dad spending time in a queue with his child waiting for a ride and having a thumb war, it can be the parents finding little treasures of details from their childhood stories.

There is too much cynicism in the world and it infects all of us. Disneyland is an antidote to cynicism if you want it to be, or it can reinforce it if you only look to the traditional adult role of supervisor, not participant.

Disneyland and its inhabitants are as real as I am. It is a step into a fantasy world that is created by adults based on our memories that our parents created. If that isn't magic then I don't know what is.

Stop, you stupid guy. You're going to make me cry like an idiot  :cry: lol.

they're hoping to reconnect with a slightly older audience who maybe visited the resort a while ago and are long overdue a return.

That's true.

[littlemermaid83]

Magic happens if you want it to.  Forget conjuring tricks and fairy princess and fanciful tales.  Disney isn't ABOUT any of those.

Disney is about telling stories and creating a place where the emotions of those stories have free reign.

Those stories can be about a dad spending time in a queue with his child waiting for a ride and having a thumb war, it can be the parents finding little treasures of details from their childhood stories.

There is too much cynicism in the world and it infects all of us.  Disneyland is an antidote to cynicism if you want it to be, or it can reinforce it if you only look to the traditional adult role of supervisor, not participant.

Disneyland and its inhabitants are as real as I am.  It is a step into a fantasy world that is created by adults based on our memories that our parents created.  If that isn't magic then I don't know what is.

Very well said!  =D>

[Glstitch]

Magic happens if you want it to ...  If that isn't magic then I don't know what is.

That's the most beautiful thing I've ever read, respect!

[ford prefect]

:oops: blush

[Epcot_Boy]

Disneyland is an antidote to cynicism if you want it to be, or it can reinforce it if you only look to the traditional adult role of supervisor, not participant.

Disneyland and its inhabitants are as real as I am.  It is a step into a fantasy world that is created by adults based on our memories that our parents created.  If that isn't magic then I don't know what is.

This shows a wonderful understanding of the beauty of Disney(Land) and one with which I wholeheartedly agree =D>

Excellent FP :thumbs: