Carrying on reading through the PDF posted in the DLP Group structure topic, I stumbled on this:
QuoteThe maintenance of these acquisition rights is subject to certain minimum development deadlines (the next of which is in March 2017) which if not met or amended, could result in the expiration of these rights. Also, any land acquisition rights for the remaining undeveloped land that are not included in a development phase or approved by the Group and the relevant French authorities in March 2017 will expire. Management is currently negotiating with the French authorities to extend this deadline. As of September 30, 2009, all minimum development deadlines have been met and no land rights have expired unused.
http://corporate.disneylandparis.com/CO ... df#page=14 (http://corporate.disneylandparis.com/CORP/EN/Neutral/Images/uk-reference-document-2009.pdf#page=14%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
Was that already known?
So the age-old thing of "they need to build a 3rd park by 2017 or lose the land!" might not be so set in stone after all, which is probably good news if we don't want them doing another WDS: blowing all their money (but not enough money) on something underwhelming that they're arguably not ready for.
Hopefully the French authorities will agree forcing this deadline won't do anyone any favours at the moment.
I see this as good news , as you said they do not have to rush to build a new park ! I would rather they spent any money on fixing the Studios and getting it to be a proper Disney park ! Even though I would love to see a third gate , there are other places that need the money first.
Interesting find. Although I'm sure we'd all expected this. The Studios sent them into a plunge after having done relatively well for seven years — they would sooner have sold the land to Six Flags than built another €500mn. park.
Also, this couldn't just be a park. A whole new area of the resort would have to be built up, they would need new infrastructure, possibly a new hotel/entertainment area, etc. Obviously not a project that should be on their radar for a while.
Nice to see a bit a common sense from the French gov. A 3rd park would probably break the resort.
If they did try to enforce it, they could always knock up a zoo or something just to meet the requirements
i agree it would be nice to have a third park but when the resort is ready for it. they have so much more to do before they get to that stage. even now the main park could do with some help. some shows, some refurbs. seriously somebody give me a power hose and i will clean the teacups for free!!!
Quote from: "mommy2ash"seriously somebody give me a power hose and i will clean the teacups for free!!!
I will gladly help you, that attraction is filthy! The floor is grey with dirt :evil:
I agree with all who said they would like to see a new park but that it really just wouldn't make any sense to do it.
I sometimes feel that they rushed to open the studios when it wasnt really fit to be a park... I try to think of it now thw way it was when I first went in 2006, no tower of terror, no hollywood boulevard, no toon town, no cars, no crush, no playhouse, no stitch, no narnia set (not that its a gain really when theres not even a character there to meet and greet anyway)! I just think to myself how little there actually was and yet they opened the park that way! Even with the addition of all the new things it still could be doing with more work and I guess toy storyland is at least an extention to what is there! And don't even get me started on how much work there needs to be put into the studio tram tour - aka the garden centre furniture tour!! lol! :P
I also agree money should be..or should I say needs to be put into disneyland park - take in a good show! A well loved classic like beauty and the beast or something!! There is so much they could do and pleaseeeeeee re-open casey jnr/storybook land, I haven't been on it since April 2007 even though I have been 3 times since but it was never opened!
I am hoping that if they could afford it they would do it and are not just sitting on their hands.
Quote from: "Aveen2008"the studio tram tour - aka the garden centre furniture tour!! lol! :P
:lol:
Is the third park supposed to be a theme park or could it also be a water park?
I think there is no real chance that there will be a third park in the next 10 years. There are so many problems in the existing parks that Disney should spend the money to improve the existing resort. Furthermore there is no money to build something new until 2017.
Quote from: "dagobert"Is the third park supposed to be a theme park or could it also be a water park?
Let's bring back the old Lava Lagoon rumour!! That would be brilliant for 2017. But I really really hope they don't build a third park for at least another 15 years, otherwise it'll be rubbish and incomplete like WDS was. I'd much rather wait until 2037 and get a park which has the same detail and quality as DisneySea.
Quote from: "charlied"But I really really hope they don't build a third park for at least another 15 years, otherwise it'll be rubbish and incomplete like WDS [strike:2tdgf2e6]was[/strike:2tdgf2e6] is.
They really should concentrate on turning WDS into a Disney quality themepark, if possible... Instead of improving small parts of the WDS, they really should destruct larger parts of it and rebuild the studios to something that deserves to be titled themepark. Do I hear someone saying "DCA makeover"? If only they had the money...
Quote from: "Remco K."Quote from: "charlied"But I really really hope they don't build a third park for at least another 15 years, otherwise it'll be rubbish and incomplete like WDS [strike:5k3k7tta]was[/strike:5k3k7tta] is.
They really should concentrate on turning WDS into a Disney quality themepark, if possible... Instead of improving small parts of the WDS, they really should destruct larger parts of it and rebuild the studios to something that deserves to be titled themepark. Do I hear someone saying "DCA makeover"? If only they had the money...
The plan was going to be to add the theatre district and then transform backlot into 'Action Studio' but they haven't done anything at all.
Also wasn't there a rumour that the next Disney theme park after Shanghai will be in Paris? I can't remember where I saw that. Can anyone help?
I can't get excited over a glorified indoor swimming pool rather than a theme park. I wonder if they'll open the third one with only 1 coaster or if they've learnt by now that that's a bad idea.
The third park will be called "Disney's Great Carnival Rides Park". :lol:
Quote from: "andrewuk"The plan was going to be to add the theatre district and then transform backlot into 'Action Studio' but they haven't done anything at all.
In fact that plan still exists. It depends on when Soarin' will be build. :wink:
So wouldn't it be better for the studios to build Soarin' first and then the Ratatouille ride, because of the makeover of Production Courtyard?
For our sanity it probably would be yes, but from a business angle I'd say Ratatouille makes a lot more sense. That rat has a lot of pulling power and at the same time finally give the park a dark ride, something with actual depth. Soarin however great is just another large screen (though hopefully it'll be next).
Whoever said they should focus on a water park next is right - when's THAT going to happen? They could add all the rides in the world to WDS, but it wouldn't get people to stay an extra night like a water park would.
Whilst I agree that the water park would make people stay for another night, it costs money. However, the decision to not build it may be more than just that. Consider a guest - they want a holiday to DLP and want to use their time (and money!) to the optimum. if they have had a look through the contents of WDS, they may say (especially if they have been before!) - "lets skip the WDS and visit the Park and the Water Park, with a pop into WDS for ..."
In the end, a whole new park, but no benefit for trip length. It makes sense to fill up WDS to make it a proper, all round, full park, as it should have been at launch, which people will not even consider missing off, rather than build another one, and save some money too!
I agree that making WDS a brilliant park is priority number 1. Then as major expansions go I think number 2 should be a huge Disney Village expansion with convention centre; number 3 should be a water park then consider an extension of Lake Disney. Oh and all those E-Tickets we all want for Disneyland Park before they even start to think about park 3.
Quote from: "Adam"In the end, a whole new park, but no benefit for trip length. It makes sense to fill up WDS to make it a proper, all round, full park, as it should have been at launch, which people will not even consider missing off, rather than build another one, and save some money too!
Unfortunately that's what happened in Orlando. When Animal Kingdom opened, guests didn't extend their trip lengths, they just missed out some of the other parks; visitor numbers for the Magic Kingdom, Epcot and MGM/Hollywood Studios all decreased by quite a lot when AK opened. And the same thing happened when Islands Of Adventure opened at Universal, people went to that park instead of Universal. I reckon the same thing will happen this year when Potter Mania takes a grip.
In my opinion there is no real chance to see a now park in the neyt 15 years. Which bank would give Disney so much money to build a third park?
That's also the reason why I don't think that there will be a water park in the next five to ten years.
Quote from: "Kristof"Quote from: "andrewuk"The plan was going to be to add the theatre district and then transform backlot into 'Action Studio' but they haven't done anything at all.
In fact that plan still exists. It depends on when Soarin' will be build. :wink:
So does that mean that both the 'Theatre District' and 'Action Studio' have to wait until 'Soarin' over the world' is filmed and then wait again for the Paris management to approve it? That's hardly going to be soon as Rat, Mermaid and Star Tours 2 now seem to be ahead of it in the queue. So any place-making in those areas just has to wait? Is there any joined up thinking going on at all :?:
Do we know if Soarin' is a large investment or is it something they could do with a spare 40million or so? :?: :?: :?:
Quote from: "andrewuk"Do we know if Soarin' is a large investment or is it something they could do with a spare 40million or so? :?: :?: :?:
No, much more than that. Can't remember any figures but whenever the cost has been mentioned online I've been surprised just how much it was... more like double that, pushing 100m. It's the crazy meccano seating I suppose.
By the way, of course I know a waterpark costs a lot of money, but if we're talking third parks then that's what they should be focusing on as their third pillar. DLP at the moment is small enough that people see it as only a weekend or "couple of nights" place. It probably has room for expansion of room nights, whereas Orlando obviously doesn't, they maxed out at 14 nights long ago. Until we get a waterpark, DLP will never seem very resort-like, like somewhere you'd spend a week.
Quote from: "Anthony"DLP will never seem very resort-like, like somewhere you'd spend a week.
Sorry to disagree but i'm staying at dlp for 8 nights this year! 7 night last year just wasnt enough! :D
I couldn't agree more 10 of our trips have been for a least a week...with one of 11 days and that was still not enough...if only money was not a problem :lol:
But how will a water park work in the winter?
Quote from: "Terkina"But how will a water park work in the winter?
You could have it indoors, with an outdoor portion that's open during the summer and other hotter days. I'd like to see them do something like the Pirates water park concepts we saw from Disney a few years ago.
I was thinking of the waterparks Disney have in the USA and totaly forgot that they can build an indoor one in Paris :lol:
Hmmm... I'm not sure if an indoor water-park will work that well...
I mean, (almost?) every Disney Hotel in Paris has it's own indoor swimming pool, so I think an indoor water-park at Disneyland Paris would be a waste of money!
Besides that I also think that the illusion WDI created with Blizzard Beach and Typhoon Lagoon in Florida, won't work inside a building. So I think it would be much wiser to invest in a third themepark. And with the word 'themepark' I don't mean the WDS, but the DLP. They should invest in a very good third park from the same level as the DLP, instead of a water- or a WDS-like park.
But that's just my opinion... :roll:
QuoteUntil we get a waterpark, DLP will never seem very resort-like, like somewhere you'd spend a week.
Personally I don't agree with that. You don't need a water park to have a resort. Universal Orlando doesn't have a water park, Tokyo DisneySea doesn't have a water park, and Disneyland Resort doesn't have one either. They're all resorts though.
I've actually stayed at Universal Orlando for an entire week, and it was probably the best theme park holiday I've ever had. The whole place really felt like a resort; a great place to have a holiday. And... it didn't have a water park :-)
DLP has always been a resort, i've never been to Universal Orlando(though i'm planning to in the future together with WDW) and Universal CityWalk does kinda seem to be what Disney Village should be. Maybe do a bigger expansion of Disney Village first like a sort of mini city within the resort. I don't really think a waterpark should be the main priority right now but the third park should be. And something full-sized like the Disneyland Park, not like WDS. They can always build a waterpark, but it won't bring as much money and people as a full-sized themepark. They should try to put a solid investment in it though, and not let the park have the same faith as the original studios park concepts had.
DLPinfo.com
http://www.dlp.info/News/2010/09/third- ... #more-3781 (http://www.dlp.info/News/2010/09/third-park-at-disneyland-paris-delayed/#more-3781%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
It seems (eventually) to say that Villages Nature may be recommence and a Third Gate may be made by 2030 IF market conditions are right,
I sincerely hope that Village Nature does not become a third gate by default somehow, some kind of Animal Kingdom combination of accommodation, wildlife, environment and WDI theming and attractions could be great but a Centre Parcs!
Maybe I read that wrong and Village Nature could be interseting, has anyone any more info?
Hm I can´t read that at the official press release:
//http://corporate.disneylandparis.com/CORP/EN/Neutral/Images/uk-2010-09-14-renewed-momentum-for-the-partnership-between-euro-disney-and-the-french-public-parties.pdf
I think the third gate and the villages are two diffrent things. Or better I hope so!
After reading the press release, it seems that there will be a lot of money invested into the Nature Villages. Hopefully ED SCA can really generate that amount of oney, because the need every Cent they can get to fix the resort.
Hopefully Disney waits another ten years to build a third park. The existing parks need a lot of attention in the next years. I don't want to see another cheap park like WDS.
We've had several week long stays, a few 8 day stays and 2-3 10 day stays - if I had the money, I would stay for weeks! :P
I think the new "momentum" is a step in the right direction and I think it´s a big step for Euro Disney SCA. Till this new contract they had to built another theme park till 2017. Now they have time till 2030. The villages natures project is something that is great for a construction step by step. First the water villages, then the earth and later the sport villages. And with pierre et vacances they have a big partner with money for such projects.
The most important thing is for me that the land deadline is now extended. That´s what Euro Disney SCA needs to make a real disney park out of WDS, to fix the resort and to make profit.
Quote from: "Riebi"I think the new "momentum" is a step in the right direction and I think it´s a big step for Euro Disney SCA. Till this new contract they had to built another theme park till 2017. Now they have time till 2030. The villages natures project is something that is great for a construction step by step. First the water villages, then the earth and later the sport villages. And with pierre et vacances they have a big partner with money for such projects.
The most important thing is for me that the land deadline is now extended. That´s what Euro Disney SCA needs to make a real disney park out of WDS, to fix the resort and to make profit.
It was indeed a good decision to postpone the third park. At the monent there is no need for a third park when the second one isn't really working. The third park should be a "real" Disney park and not a bad themed half a day park like WDS. ED SCA needs the time to fix the existing parks and hotels. I don't mind if Disney will not build third park until 2030 as long as they transform WDS into a Disney park.
How much involved is ED SCA in the Villages Natures project? From where does ED SCA get the money to build it in partnership with Pierre & Vacances? That's a major project and hopefully Disney makes a lot of money with it.
I think VN was something like a 51% Disney 49% PV base or else. The interesting point is: Does Disney only give land + Davy Crockett or also some money.
One of the problems with WDS was, that they had to built a park in a time where they were out of the red by hm one or two years?! It´s good that they have now time to get the train on track.
Maybe without the contract to build a second park until 2002, Disneyland Paris would have made more profit and ED SCA wouldn't have built a cheap second park. Perhaps the park would have opened for the 15th or 20th birthday and it would have been a "real" Disney park and not a concrete desert.
Riebi, what do you mean with Davy Crockett? Have I missed something in the press release?
Local newspaper:
(//http://web21.twitpic.com/img/162337489-995838a0b3faa1309b160be1c56cb1c3.4c90ca58-full.jpg)
So the contract will be extended for 13 years... that makes it 2030...
Am I right?
Kenny
The new project got some attention in German and Austrian online newspapers, too, but some of them think that the Nature Villages project will be the third themepark :roll: .
Member "Vincent" has just posted in interesting article from the "Telegraph" about the third park on Micechat.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... -park.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/leisure/8003605/Euro-Disney-ponders-Marvel-superheroes-theme-park.html%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
It seems that Disney is considering a superheroes park for Paris.
I know it's a long time until 2020 and many things can change until then, but I really hope that Disney isn't going to build a superheroes park. Don't they have any original ideas anymore? Maybe I'm the only one, but I think superheroes don't belng to Disney, they fit better with Universal.
I always thought that superheroes are more popular in the US than in Europe.
Can't see the super heroes park happening myself. They are only considering it and they change their minds so much. As 2020 is the earliest it would be crazy of them to decide on anything now, but at least they have an idea.
The more interesting item was the expansions of WDS that were alluded to, perhaps this could be something more significant if they have to develop these pockets of land. Maybe it means we could see Ratatouille, Soarin', Action Studio and Theatre District place-making and the lake with World of Color!
Quote from: "andrewuk"Can't see the super heroes park happening myself. They are only considering it and they change their minds so much. As 2020 is the earliest it would be crazy of them to decide on anything now, but at least they have an idea.
The more interesting item was the expansions of WDS that were alluded to, perhaps this could be something more significant if they have to develop these pockets of land. Maybe it means we could see Ratatouille, Soarin', Action Studio and Theatre District place-making and the lake with World of Color!
Let's see if Marvel is still owned by TWDC in ten years. And yes they change their minds so much.
It's sad that the press release doesn't say anything about the future of the parks. It doesn't seem that the parks will get any attention in the next years, except for Ratatouille.
I do'nt really like the idea of a Superhero theme-park. I think Disney's use of the Marvel brand should be very slight, as its slightly goes against thier largly perceived image of a fantasy-orientated young-family brand.
I think a Super-hero area in WDS would be fantastic though, or they should at least use the Marvel brand for a few rides.
Off to the Home Imagineering forum... ;D
This press release also got a good feature in The Times , but again it was left a bit vague ! at least it is something in the right direction ! http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/ ... 725672.ece (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/leisure/article2725672.ece%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)