I've been a member of this forum for nearly two years now and I've got to say that recently the air has changed to one of negativity. Disneyland Paris – like all Disney parks around the world – were built on Walt's vision of creating a magic world of wonders and a park that would never be completed as long as there is imagination in the world.
I am a long time fan of Disneyland Paris. As a very young child my parents took me and my brother to Walt Disney World in Florida and I have to say most of those memories have faded away now and most of my Disney memories are rooted in Disneyland Paris. I will heartily tell all and sundry that I love the place and that I try to go there at least once a year. I talk about the ease of travel, the two parks, the new rides, the wonderful parades, and the magic of a Disney Christmas. However most Brits that I talk to about Disneyland Paris still call the park "Euro Disney" and think of it as a poor replica of its American cousins.
Such negativity and poor opinion is sadly sweeping across this Magic Forum – a chat site devoted to fans of Disneyland Paris. FANS! I read nothing but bad reviews about broken light bulbs, faulty smoke machines and peeling paint. I know that DLRP has recently received bad financial news but Disneyland Paris is still growing strong.
By the middle of next year Disney Studios will have not just the annual "new attraction" but A WHOLE NEW THEMED LAND! Three brand new rides themed around one of the most successful Disney films of all time! Toy Story is easily the most profitable Disney movie franchise ever. By building these new rides the same year that Disney re-release Toy Story 1 and 2 in 3-D and produce a 3rd film to the trilogy has got to boost the attendance of the parks.
Yes I've heard all the nay-sayers and their "bare pipe work" and "fairground attraction" rants but seriously – look around the park!
* Dumbo the Flying Elephant = Merri-go-round
* Orbitron = Merri-go-round
* Flying Carpets over Agrabah = Merri-go-round
* Phantom Manor = Ghost Train
* its a small world = The Tunnel of Love
* Indiana Jones and the Temple of Peril = Wild Mouse Coaster
* Carousel De Lancelot = its a freaking Carousel!!
Disney has always had "fairground" style attractions and it is not like these are going to be "bare pipe work" – they are going to be themed to like like toys! The whole concept of the Toy Story films is that people have always wondered what the world would be like from a toy's point of view. Toy Story Playland will create this effect and have 3 new thrill rides to boot!
Ok, my rant is over. I called this thread "reasons to be cheerful" and there really is a lot to be cheerful for. It seems that the DLRP uber-fans spend too much time photographing rubbish bins and building sites and not enough time focussing on how beautiful and magical Disnayland Paris really is. So here's some key points.
Why Disneyland Paris is unique:
* It is the largest "Magic Kingdom" style park in the world. Sure it may not have the most attractions but it has the largest footprint and the biggest and best manicured grounds.
* Roy E. Disney called Sleeping Beauty's castle "best most beautiful fantasy castle we have ever built".
* It is the only "Magic Kingdom" with the Discoveryland concept based on California's aborted Discovery Bay complete with parked up Nautilus.
* Space Mountain: Mission Two was the first SM to have on-board sound and include inversions.
* No other MK park has an Alice In Wonderland themed maze.
* Our Mad Hatter's Teacups is the only one to have a roof.
* It is the only MK park with an Adventure Isle – a beautifully created and totally free-play attraction.
* DLRP has the only Pirates of the Caribbean ride built to Walt's original specifications (albeit with a more logical route) and without the addition of Johnny Depp et al...
* Phantom Manor took the already successful Haunted Mansion concept but created a more cohesive storyline and linked it to a Frontierland setting.
* Big Thunder Mountain is the only BTM ride to have the entire ride on a separate island.
* WDS created the Moteurs Action stunt show which was then copied around the world.
* WDS has the only Finding Nemo themed coaster in the world.
* Armageddon SFX was created especially for WDS.
* The Cinemagique movie was created especially for WDS.
More great things about DLRP:
* Most Brits can get to Paris in around 90 minutes to 2 hours and be in the parks by Midday on their first day.
* DLRP was designed specifically for a European market and decorated for European sensibilities.
* DLRP are constantly churning out offer after offer to get us to come! 20%, 30%, 40% off, All Meals Free, 1 Day and 1 Night Free, Kids Stay and Play for free.
* Disney's Fairytale Christmas – need I say more.
I am VERY passionate about DLRP and I am also a lover of change. Any change is always a change for the better. If the park stayed the same it would just stagnate and Walt's vision has always been one of improvement and innovation. Walt Disney lived through the Great Depression so he knew what financial crisis is all about. What did Walt do? He took a gamble. He created the first ever full-length, colour cartoon movie and it set the world on fire. We are in a global credit crisis right now so DLRP are RIGHT to build new attractions because they attract new customers. You have to spend money to make money.
I believe that Disneyland Paris is here to stay and I will keep visiting this magical place... because it makes me happy.
Tremendous post, well said!!!!!
=D>
As I already posted before: through financial reasons I visit the park only once a year, so I always focus on the bright side. For me, a trip to DLP is pure magic and it makes me feel like a kid again. I don't agree that any change is always a change for the better in global, but in DLP I do look forward to all new creative projects.
wow what a post :D its hugee and i think that its all going to come down to personal taste i only visit once a year like so anything new each year gets me excited
It annoys me how people moan about others for being "negative" when all we're trying to do is make things better for everyone.
It's not negativity - it's reality.
Some people seem to mistake "positivity" for living in fantasy world where nothing can go wrong. It's not that. Positivity is being confident and hopeful. And you know what? Secretly in the back of my mind I do have hope that one day DLP will return to what it should be. I do have hope that one day WDS may become a great park.
I don't point out faults for the sake of it. I want DLP to be the best place in the world, as any fan should. A fan is a supporter. So I support DLP by providing the feedback that might make the resort better for all of us.
Ignoring problems won't do any good. If you ignore them, they're only going to get bigger.
Stop living in the fantasy world. You are the ones that are making DLP lose it's quality. You are the ones that have made the problems at the resort as bad as they are - by accepting them! If you carry on, it's only going to get worse! What "true" fan would want that?
Quote from: "Magic M"Phantom Manor = Ghost Train
Bit of an insult to the Imagineers, is this not?
Quote from: "Magic M"Walt Disney lived through the Great Depression so he knew what financial crisis is all about. What did Walt do? He took a gamble.
This is exactly what DLP
don't seem to do anymore. They just stick to the same old rubberhead dance shows, the same old carnival rides. They're not going forwards - only sideways and in some cases backwards. Space Mountain was a true gamble. That ride was revolutionary at the time and was a huge risk, but it payed off.
Nice to see how you don't like being called a pessimist, but do blame others for the loss of quality in the parks... Can we just all stop blaming eachother please?! I just ignore the negative posts here and I don't like being called a bad 'fan' just because I want to fully enjoy my one trip a year.
:D Magic M
Think you read my mind!!
:D
Quote from: "RnRCj"Sanity
Quote from: "Annet"I just ignore the negative posts here
See, this upsets me. We point out DLP's faults in an attempt to make it better for all of us. And you just ignore us... well thanks.
Quote from: "Annet"I don't like being called a bad 'fan' just because I want to fully enjoy my one trip a year.
I always enjoy my trips. Who wouldn't? It's Disneyland after all. It has lots of great things. But I'm not completely oblivious to the many problems that there are. :wink:
I was thinking about what to answer to this post... until I read, what RnRCj wrote!
Thanks! Thats exactly what I think!
I don´t understand, why people call themselve "Fans", because they ignore, what they don´t want to see!
As I already wrote somewhere else... For me, it´s the task of the fans to show, what doesn´t work! Wake up.
Walt would be shocked to see it like it is now.
We don´t blame them. We criticise to make it better.
If everyone looks through the glasses of ignorance, DLP will have no reason to make things better. Why should they? Nobody complains.
BTW: I still love to visit DLP. Its like coming home! But I don´t like to see how this home is getting worse
So we have a difference of opinion. I don't think that anyone's right or wrong here, everyone has a point. But it rather upsets me that I get the feeling my opinion is not allowed here or that it makes me a lousy fan. When I see the pictures you guys make, sure I won't disagree that some things need work. But when I'm there, I only make pictures of the beautiful happy moments. Time's too short to get upset.
I like coming to this forum, on the overall everyone's friendly. But when the subject comes to this, suddenly there's a very hostile attitude.
First of all, I'll be the first to admit that I am a horrible, negative, misanthropic and ludicrously neurotic person, a stain on society, both on forums and elsewhere in life.
But in defense of complaining, who do you suppose built these parks you all so love? Perfectionists, that's who! People who mind the details, neurotics, artists who didn't settle for mediocrity. If Walt and all of his artists and engineers had not possessed these qualities, you would all be going to that dingy funfair in which Walt conceived the idea of Disneyland.
If you're saying no more nitpickers, you're saying death to Disney.
And I feel like buying some Uggs!
QuoteI was thinking about what to answer to this post... until I read, what RnRCj wrote!
Thanks! Thats exactly what I think!
I don´t understand, why people call themselve "Fans", because they ignore, what they don´t want to see!
As I already wrote somewhere else... For me, it´s the task of the fans to show, what doesn´t work! Wake up.
Walt would be shocked to see it like it is now.
We don´t blame them. We criticise to make it better.
If everyone looks through the glasses of ignorance, DLP will have no reason to make things better. Why should they? Nobody complains.
BTW: I still love to visit DLP. Its like coming home! But I don´t like to see how this home is getting worse
I completely argee with you, don´t have to add anything...
Isnt this the whole point of a forum for people to air there views..am sure member so of the disney company read what goes on here?? But I think that the first topic of reasons to be cheerful is correct...with everything in life there are people who will love it , and hate it bit or marmite going on :D but I love Disney be it all good or bad its what you make of it when u go there and when u see your kids face light up or the grown ups face light up with it been a merrygo round or a parade well who cares you get what you pay for and I will always love DLP....so roll on 2010 and see whats in store
MEGA HUGE IRISH DLP FAN
I have to say I can see this turning into an argument of opinions but...
Magic M, I loved your post and all the positives and beauty of DLP that you highlighted, it's great to hear the positives and I have to agree with you people are focusing on negitive things that are small like lights not working or things like that and I do feel personally at times it is unnesscary.
I'm sure we all agree that we all have a right to have our own opinion on what we like or don't like and I think Magic M's opinion should be respected like all others. We may not agree with each others perspectives but at the end of the day I think even those who sound negitive aren't doing it to be nasty about the park but just feel disappointed and want things to be better, which is a valid reason! We all love DLP, if we didn't we wouldn't be here and when you think about even people who notice light bulbs not working or paint peeling etc are people who love the park and who know it so well that they notice so it's not nesscarily bad either I guess.
Thanks for cheering me up with your post Magic M, I'm not having the best day so it was nice to read your post! :D
As a new member, but long time reader, I can see both sides of the argument. I mean you've gotta show some tough love.
I'm not a regular guest to DLRP. I'm a student and I can only afford to go to DLRP once a year. Although I'm a big Disneyfan I want to do other vacations, too.
I try to focus just on the positive things at DLRP, because otherwise it would ruin my trip, but I like to read trip reports which feature negative things, too, and there are a lot at the moment. But what I don't understand is, why don't you tell Disney about the problems. I'm sure nobody on the forum can help you to improve the resort. Complaining on the forum will help nobody.
When I've seen a negativity at the resort, I made a complaint at the guest relation.
When you look at other forums you realize that maintainance problems occur on every Disney park around the world, except TDR, and it looks like WDW is the worst. So I think it's really a management problem at Disney and not just the finacial situation at DLRP. Maybe it will get better with the new Parks & Resort Director the future.
Nevertheless I have to say that DLRP was in a very good condition during our last visit a year ago, compared to 2006 and 2007, and compared to WDW.
I would like to thank Magic M for her post, I feel exactly the same!
However I can understand that those of you lucky enough to visit the parks more than once a year might be more inclined to find fault. You are right, these things do need talked about.
BUT I think when Magic M posted this thread, an argument was the last thing she intended. It's called "reasons to be cheerful", can't we just have a nice post with no negative comments for once?!
Maybe we can put a 'reasons to complaint' topic next to this one ;)
Although I think there already is one, with a list of things that need work.
Is anything going to happen with that list by the way? Send it to the management?
i love all the great things mentioned in the first post - I am just about to go on my 5th trip this year and have just posted a couple of days of my last trip report ( which includes some not so good things but is nearly all positive ). All the little facts mentioned I love and thats what makes us fans as we know all the extra bits and pieces that a regular guess miss, but i guess we also get upset when we dont see something we love being shown to its best.
Both sides of this thread have a valid point.
However I do take issue with the constant brow beating posts I keep reading about how it was all perfect in Walts time back in Anaheim..
Reminiscence certainly seems to paint things in a glowing light that has little to do with the reality. Paint peeled, rides broke down and guests complained even back then. The park took a long period to evolve and was in turmoil at times as people bashed there heads together whilst arguing about what should be spent next and what should happen next.
DLP is of course a magical place that does require fans to constantly point out anything it sees as not working or not being correct for a Disney park. But what we as fans see as not working and what is a real survivable market plan are two totally different things. One is based unfortunatly in modern reality just like the other TWDC parks are at the moment and the other world WD venues. The other is pure wishful thinking with some hope thrown in, the two can meet in the middle but it's not the fans who are the experts at the end of the day.
Disney Parks and resorts across the word are simply too big to now exist without a financial plan in place to sustain survivability;in essence Walt himself created this scenario by simply becoming so succesful with his park and then deciding not to sit back and rest on that but to satisfy the growth available by investing heavily and expanding rapidly; and to be fair once a board is answering to its shareholders rather than its guests the balancing act between giving the Disney fan what he thinks should be happening and what the shareholders want to see each quarter becomes very blurred and distorted.
@ Magic M:
I 100% agree with everything you said.
@ in general:
Problems is, when you are trying to be possitive here, the dark side of this forum will treat you like you're inferior. Like you're not a true fan. Like you're the reason why some of the effects don't work or paintjobs aren't started quickly enough (I find this disturbingly hilarious, by the way). Even though you tell them that you respect their opinions, they still think their point of view is the only correct one. They seem to forget that people have different opinions and different standards. For one person, the current 'state of the resort' is bad, for the other one it's 'the most magical place they have ever been'.
This forum is here to discuss all points of view, from negative to possitive, but I thought 'respect' was also a quality we all had. Apparently, that's not the case.
I'm a regular visitor and making trips since 1997. I have an annual passport and I'm a shareholder, so very much involved with the resort. If I visit Disneyland, I don't have time to get my superzoom camera and try to find all the paint that is wearing off, or a lamp that isn't working at te moment by zooming in at maximum. It doesn't matter where you are, or what kind of Disney resort you're in, you can always find some things that don't work or need work. If some people want to spend time in finding these things, that's their business off course, but try to keep in mind that others don't care in ruining an otherwise fantastic trip.
The whole 'we are true fans and want the place to be perfect' argument is not relevant here. The relevant point is that respect for other opinions should always be there, no matter what everyone is thinking.
@ Annet:
Exactly! Tried to explain this in nearly the exact same words in another topic, but apparently, some don't realy care and continue their disrespectfull attitude.
Everything pussinboots said, personally (except the Uggs).
At the end of the day, the "New Topic" button is there for a reason. We're very happy to see it being used.
Quote from: "RnRCj"It annoys me how people moan about others for being "negative" when all we're trying to do is make things better for everyone.
Have your tights and cape arrived yet?
QuoteHowever I can understand that those of you lucky enough to visit the parks more than once a year might be more inclined to find fault.
I visit only once a year, but actually I find the less one visits the more need there is to complain.
An example: my uncle has recently had his leg removed and is very ill in hospital (he has come close to death several times now), but we've promised to take him to DLP next year if he recovers. It's what he wants, and it will probably be the only time he will ever get to go. Because of this, I want him to have the time of his life. I want DLP to be the absolute best place in the world for him. Me and the rest of my family don't want to go through the trouble of taking him all the way there only to get half of what Disneyland should be.
Quote from: "loladelorean"I think when Magic M posted this thread, an argument was the last thing she intended. It's called "reasons to be cheerful", can't we just have a nice post with no negative comments for once?!
If the original poster hadn't started with a long rant about we who complain, I would have happily listed several things which I
do like about DLP. :wink:
Quote from: "pussinboots"But in defense of complaining, who do you suppose built these parks you all so love? Perfectionists, that's who! People who mind the details, neurotics, artists who didn't settle for mediocrity. If Walt and all of his artists and engineers had not possessed these qualities, you would all be going to that dingy funfair in which Walt conceived the idea of Disneyland.
If you're saying no more nitpickers, you're saying death to Disney.
This gets a big thumbs up from me! I can't seem to put my arguments across as well as other people. :oops:
Quote from: "Anthony"Have your tights and cape arrived yet?
Nope, but should be arriving shortly. Captain Complain will take flight within a matter of days!
Quote from: "Tuvok"@ Magic M:
I 100% agree with everything you said.
@ in general:
Problems is, when you are trying to be possitive here, the dark side of this forum will treat you like you're inferior. Like you're not a true fan. Like you're the reason why some of the effects don't work
Hear hear! I've felt guilty reading negative posts before then caught myself. Cry me down if you wish, but I don't really care if some effects don't work or some paint is chipped. There, I said it! It doesn't affect my enjoyment in any way and when I was there, if I did notice small problems, I just thought, "Disney will fix it soon enough".
I can just hear some of you tutting now, thinking that this is exactly the attitude that is "allowing" the parks to be "run into the ground". or whatever. But I stand by my position, and I'm taking it more strongly as this argument continues. Disney are not lazy, they work hard and there is constant renovation in the parks. With so many visitors, of course there will be disrepair, but for me and apparently for many others, it doesn't detract from the magic at all.
I'm a wee bit sick of reading posts where people hark back to how the park used to be etc etc. It's a beautiful place but it's not a work of art like the Mona Lisa to be looked at. It's there to experience and make memories in, and of course it doesn't look as pristine today as it did the day it opened. But I still think it's pretty darn beautiful.
You know what, I quite like the thing on the front of the castle too. Confession over :)
Quote from: "RnRCj"QuoteHowever I can understand that those of you lucky enough to visit the parks more than once a year might be more inclined to find fault.
I visit only once a year, but actually I find the less one visits the more need there is to complain.
An example: my uncle has recently had his leg removed and is very ill in hospital (he has come close to death several times now), but we've promised to take him to DLP next year if he recovers. It's what he wants, and it will probably be the only time he will ever get to go. Because of this, I want him to have the time of his life. I want DLP to be the absolute best place in the world for him. Me and the rest of my family don't want to go through the trouble of taking him all the way there only to get half of what Disneyland should be.
Quote from: "loladelorean"I think when Magic M posted this thread, an argument was the last thing she intended. It's called "reasons to be cheerful", can't we just have a nice post with no negative comments for once?!
If the original poster hadn't started with a long rant about we who complain, I would have happily listed several things which I do like about DLP. :wink:
I'm glad your uncle is getting the chance to go to DLP, I hope he (and all of you) enjoy it and that it IS the best place in the world for him. Do you think it will be or are you worried about potential problems? I'm not being sarcastic here, I genuinely want to know if you think it will spoil this important trip in any way.
And I know, I know, it's only fair to retaliate when your opinion is attacked at the outset. I guess it's just a shame that so many threads seem to turn into arguments...mind you, here I am contributing to it. I suppose it's a marker of how much we care about the parks!
maybe you could post a list of nice things as well....? [-o< :D/
Quote from: "Tuvok"@ Magic M:
I 100% agree with everything you said.
@ in general:
Problems is, when you are trying to be possitive here, the dark side of this forum will treat you like you're inferior. Like you're not a true fan. Like you're the reason why some of the effects don't work or paintjobs aren't started quickly enough (I find this disturbingly hilarious, by the way). Even though you tell them that you respect their opinions, they still think their point of view is the only correct one. They seem to forget that people have different opinions and different standards. For one person, the current 'state of the resort' is bad, for the other one it's 'the most magical place they have ever been'.
This forum is here to discuss all points of view, from negative to possitive, but I thought 'respect' was also a quality we all had. Apparently, that's not the case.
This is exactly what I was trying to say! But my english isn't this good, so expressing myself clearly was a little harder.
I respect anyone's opinion and it won't come to my mind to call somebody a bad fan, just because they've got a different point of view. Yes, a forum is made for discussion, but not to attack and disrespect eachother.
What is all this talk of respect? I'm sure everyone respects everyone as people. I sure do, assuming none of you have lived lives of crime (and even then I'd respect you if you'd been any good at it) or have had a hand in the canceling of Arrested Development. Opposing another's opinion is not disrespect unless nasty terms are flung about, and it seems to me that everyone is actually rather nice to everyone else around here.
Anyway, to be brutally honest for a second, I don't quite understand why people even come to a message board if they only wish to see their own views mirrored, for what would a forum be without discussion, and what would a discussion be without opposing viewpoints? The material you want is called advertising.
Now I do apologize for this bit of mind-boggling meta-discussion, but I feel it has to be said.
Furthermore, I can't think of a single member who is exclusively negative; the most likely candidates for that description just have a tendency to show their cheerier side in threads with titles like "Castle stage used for the first time in ten years" or "Pile of poo getting smaller" which are, unfortunately, sparse.
(And what would this place be without the occasional miser anyway? It'd be as dull as a film called Beauty and the Beauty.)
Quote from: "ightenhill"Both sides of this thread have a valid point.
However I do take issue with the constant brow beating posts I keep reading about how it was all perfect in Walts time back in Anaheim..
Reminiscence certainly seems to paint things in a glowing light that has little to do with the reality. Paint peeled, rides broke down and guests complained even back then. The park took a long period to evolve and was in turmoil at times as people bashed there heads together whilst arguing about what should be spent next and what should happen next.
DLP is of course a magical place that does require fans to constantly point out anything it sees as not working or not being correct for a Disney park. But what we as fans see as not working and what is a real survivable market plan are two totally different things. One is based unfortunatly in modern reality just like the other TWDC parks are at the moment and the other world WD venues. The other is pure wishful thinking with some hope thrown in, the two can meet in the middle but it's not the fans who are the experts at the end of the day.
Disney Parks and resorts across the word are simply too big to now exist without a financial plan in place to sustain survivability;in essence Walt himself created this scenario by simply becoming so succesful with his park and then deciding not to sit back and rest on that but to satisfy the growth available by investing heavily and expanding rapidly; and to be fair once a board is answering to its shareholders rather than its guests the balancing act between giving the Disney fan what he thinks should be happening and what the shareholders want to see each quarter becomes very blurred and distorted.
It's not about whether anything has ever been perfect — nothing has — it's about intentions, I think. Walt's intentions with regard to finances were, let's face it, not a great deal more complex than "let's try not to go bankrupt," and I do agree that considering Euro Disney's frequent excursions to the edge, one can hardly blame them for being somewhat more pragmatic than their starry-eyed predecessor.
But he and his people and many of their successors possessed a great deal of zeal and ambition and competence in other departments, and it is when the lack of that becomes painfully apparent that people start to complain. When there is no money, there is no money. But when there is money and it gets spent on the wrong thing, on an unworthy attraction or an employee who isn't doing his homework or an army of employees who are rude, or on a failing corporate structure or a failing financial strategy, or all of the above, then why shouldn't people be able to lament that? (And that doesn't even cover the viewpoint that the reason why too little money is coming in is
because they aren't investing enough, which Walt and 1994-era and 2007-era Euro Disney did to great success.)
And do remember that people aren't seeing a broken light bulb or some peeling wallpaper, they're seeing an institution they love deteriorate. (And when they see things improve, they breathe a sigh of relief by that same logic.) And that's what you're seeing around here. And it seems they ended up among people who just want to get in a Disney mood, and that's where this thread comes in!
Well I just think quotes like these are disrespectful:
Quote from: "RnRCj"Stop living in the fantasy world. You are the ones that are making DLP lose it's quality. You are the ones that have made the problems at the resort as bad as they are - by accepting them! If you carry on, it's only going to get worse! What "true" fan would want that?
Quote from: "MagicStar"I don´t understand, why people call themselve "Fans", because they ignore, what they don´t want to see!
Like I said before, I don't think discussion equals telling people they're not true fans. We're all fans, otherwise we wouldn't come here, there are just different opinions and I don't think there is an ultimate truth between them.
I didn't directly say anyone was not a true fan, I was merely stating what my concept of a true fan is. I don't understand how people can call themselves fans if they don't really care about the resort's deterioration and don't want to help to improve it.
Quote from: "loladelorean"I'm glad your uncle is getting the chance to go to DLP, I hope he (and all of you) enjoy it and that it IS the best place in the world for him. Do you think it will be or are you worried about potential problems? I'm not being sarcastic here, I genuinely want to know if you think it will spoil this important trip in any way.
To tell the truth, I would probably only focus on the good things at DLP and try to avoid anything that isn't up to the quality it should be. He wouldn't like things like the Central Plaza show or anything too child-oriented, but he would love to do things like exploring Frontierland or Adventure Isle. Having said that, today he has become very ill again and is on a ventilator. So we're not sure what's going to happen. :(
Quote from: "loladelorean"maybe you could post a list of nice things as well....?
I could, but it'd be way too long to post here. :wink:
I think that anyone on this forum obviously loves DLP , I agree it has the best castle of any park worldwide , the best POTC , and a lot of extra features that make it stand out above a lot of the other Disney parks , and I could go on and on !! But Disney is known for its attention to detail ,and when you see things broken or in desperate need of a repaint it is disappointing.It is the perfection of a Disney park that makes it so appealing , otherwise Alton Towers or Universal would be considered the ultimate.
I only go once a year but have been visiting since opening ,so have seen plenty of changes over the years , but never come away feeling I didn't enjoy my trip .I haven't had a holiday ruined by a gas lamp not working in Liberty Arcade , or the smoke effects on the cannon of SM not running ; but these little touches make the difference to our experience and the little extra detail is what we all love about Disney !
If we never knew that the the cannon on SM moved , and had smoke effects we would never be bothered or think how great it could look if they added it ! It is because we know how fantastic it can look with all the effects working that we are upset when they aren't fixed for the longest time !
We all like different things , "puss in boots" thinks "Beauty and the Beast" is dull !! :shock: LOL and I love it , I find Armageddon unimpressive but some people love it !!!
Maybe people should write more positive threads ,i.e " Why the Paris castle so wonderful to me !" or "Adventureland is so amazing because...." but no one seems to post anything quite like this,I think it is taken that we all love DLP ! :D
Quote from: "Annet"Well I just think quotes like these are disrespectful. I don't think discussion equals telling people they're not true fans.
Dear Annet, I´m sorry to make you feel, taht your are not a true fan. That wasn´t my intention. I just reacted on this..´.
Quote from: "Magic M"Such negativity and poor opinion is sadly sweeping across this Magic Forum – a chat site devoted to fans of Disneyland Paris. FANS!
This gave ME the feeling, that I´m not a fan because I complain! I think RnRCj just found my words:
Quote from: "RnRCj"I don't understand how people can call themselves fans if they don't really care about the resort's deterioration and don't want to help to improve it.
I always like to compare it with a mother or a brother or a family... Would you just always say... "Oh my little brother is so cute and nice and he can´t fail?" Or would you additionally say your brother, if he makes something wrong because you care for him?
Thats the point!
Quote from: "Tuvok"Problems is, when you are trying to be possitive here, the dark side of this forum will treat you like you're inferior.... If I visit Disneyland, I don't have time to get my superzoom camera and try to find all the paint that is wearing off....
The Problem is, you complaint that people don´t respect you opinion, but in the same post you do just the same. You exaggerate what we do and talk like we have nothing more to do like searching for bad things!
Quote from: "Timbo"We all like different things , "puss in boots" thinks "Beauty and the Beast" is dull !! :shock:
Read again...
Quote from: "Timbo"We all like different things , "puss in boots" thinks "Beauty and the Beast" is dull !! :shock:
It does make you wonder if some people actually read the threads they respond to properly :shock: :shock:
Yes i have complained about certain things at DLP like MMP etc, and that awful Mickey head on the castle but it doesn't make my trip any less magical. I go to Disney because 1) I'm a huge Disney fan and 2) to make memories with my 4 year old daughter. I'm not saying i haven't noticed things that don't need tending to, I just don't let it ruin my trip.
What annoys me is that people complain and complain on here but they really should be complaining to the company themselves, if they don't know whats wrong how can they even try and fix it?
MagicStar and RnRCj, thanks for your reactions. Your statements seem much more nuanced now, it sounds just a tad friendlier for your fellow-forummers who disagree ;) I'm not saying we all have to agree, it would become quite a boring forum actually if that was the case.
Just like littlemermaid I do wonder though, but I already asked that before, is anything going to happen with all the comments? Cause complaining here won't work, I'm sure as hell not going to get my ladder and paint the park myself :P
Quote from: "littlemermaid83"What annoys me is that people complain and complain on here but they really should be complaining to the company themselves, if they don't know whats wrong how can they even try and fix it?
Actually, I've written to them twice in the last year! Both times I told them what all the main problems are (with particular emphasis on maintenance and entertainment) but also the things they are doing right. They always send back friendly and appreciative responses. The last time I wrote to them they said my comments had been passed onto the "highest levels of management".
Wow people. Try taking some deep breaths.
I don't post much on this forum, but I do read it every single day. I love coming here and reading about updates on my favourite Disney park in the world.
I shall give you my outsiders point of view.
I agree with both sides of the argument because they both present valid points.
Recently this forum has gone into a habit of being very negative on nearly all aspects of DLP.
On some front Disney deserves these complaints (The billboard in front of studio 1 or that racetrack in Discoveryland that has not been used for more than a decade, ect).
On other things I think you guys can be way too harsh. Every theme park will have things break down at a certain point. These things can take time to fix, so we should be patient. Give Disney a little time to cough up extra cash, and they will try to get to it, i'm sure of it.
One thing that really bothers me is how negative people can be about "New" things in either park. For example about the new Toy Story Playland. Yes, it might not be the most innovative, best themed new attraction Disney could have build, but we are getting three new attractions (in a park that desperately needs some) in a time when Disney is running at a 63 million loss! I think we should be happy we are getting ANYTHING at all in my opinion.
Everyone can have their own opinion, but some posts can be really unfair and spewing vomit on something that has not even been build yet!
When it get's down to it, the "Happiest and most magical place on earth" is a business and it needs money to operate. If it is running at a 63 million loss. No money is coming in, and all of us here know that NO money has been the story with Euro Disney from day 1.
The only TRUE MAGICAL thing about Disneyland Paris is that it still EXISTS AND EXPANDING after almost 20 years of operation making no money at all!
That is what I am grateful for. I can still visit the only place on earth that brings me back to my childhood. It is still open and running while Disney Corporation and the "Others" invest money into something that will give them no return. You could (almost) think of it as a charity project.
I definitely think we should send this list of defects in to DLP, so they can have a look at it and try to fix it. But it will probably take some time.
I understand where (most) of the negativity comes from though.
One thing I have always said is that when the time comes I will apply to work at DLP for some time. This is not because of my obsession with DLP that I want to be there every single day. I actually believe the magic will disappear once I start working there. But I want to work there so I may make other people happy, and give them their times of their lives in DLP.
I think this relates with the obsessive minute detail gathering and the negativity on this forum. It is because you want to make the park better so that other people will enjoy it just as much as you did on your first day there. But Try keeping the trolling and negativity moderate and let's all support one another instead of attack.
I'm saying this because at this time this forum is NOT the happiest place on earth.
The End
Quote from: "pussinboots"Quote from: "Timbo"We all like different things , "puss in boots" thinks "Beauty and the Beast" is dull !! :shock:
Read again...
:roll: Errr......sorry !!! I did read the whole thread in one go ,so was reading some bits obviously a bit too quick ! It's one of those things where you expect to see something and don't expect a difference ! Am I forgiven ?
Quote from: "Timbo":roll: Errr......sorry !!! I did read the whole thread in one go ,so was reading some bits obviously a bit too quick ! It's one of those things where you expect to see something and don't expect a difference ! Am I forgiven ?
You are, if you compile a list of positive things about Disneyland Paris and sign it with my name, haha.
I just didn't want to go down in history as the person who hates Beauty and the Beast! They might revoke my fan club membership.
Quote from: "pussinboots"Quote from: "Timbo":roll: Errr......sorry !!! I did read the whole thread in one go ,so was reading some bits obviously a bit too quick ! It's one of those things where you expect to see something and don't expect a difference ! Am I forgiven ?
You are, if you compile a list of positive things about Disneyland Paris and sign it with my name, haha.
I just didn't want to go down in history as the person who hates Beauty and the Beast! They might revoke my fan club membership.
I love just about everything at DLP !! The list would be far too long to put on here !!
I am sure there are a lot of people who don't like Beauty and the Beast , though PUSSINBOOTS IS NOT ONE OF THEM !!!
We all have different likes and that is what makes the world a more interesting place ,and this forum too ! :wink:
Merci!
Thank you all for your responses.
Its sometimes good to stir up a tempest in a top-hat - its good for morale! I wrote my intitial "mission statement" call it what you will because I love Disneyland Paris and I didn;t want any negatives vibes getting in the way of my next trip in March. Its now only 2 months away and I am more excited than ever to go.
Wishing you all a magical new year.
MM
Hi guys,
I just read this whole post from start to finish, wow :shock: a lot to take in in one go!
I just thought I'd add my own personal standpoint into the mix:
There have been additions, removals, rennovations etc to my favourite place in the world that I have been both pleased and disapointed with over the past few years. Take, for example, the rennovation of the Last Chance Cafe. In my opinion, a fantastic idea that has been poorly exicuted. I'm reserving final judgement until I have seen it for myself (only 3 days!!!) although I think that the fact they have addressed the need for shelter is a step in the right direction, to me the roof sticks out like a sore thumb in an otherwise stunning area of the park. It also has the potential to disrupt the view of PM when you enter the land. Because that is one of my favourite views in all the parks it means a lot to me, but I accept that this isn't the case for everyone. (I'm only moaning on this post for the sake of giving a good example :wink: )
When I step into Disneyland it truely feels like I'm entering another world. Now, I'm by far not the neatest person in the world (in fact I think I'm in the running for untidiest person ever!) but when I saw the state that Alice's Curious Labrynth was in the last time I was there (Nov 2008) that bought me out of the magic. I don't see all the problems of Disney while I'm there, for the most part I'm totally submerged in the magic.
It is a shame to see things go to waste, or opportunities missed and I can completely understand why people feel the need to complain about it. I know that when I see something being done wrong, whether that's wholely my opinion or shared by others, I feel the need to talk about it. Mostly I do this with my family but when it comes to Disney I know that they don't really care so I use the forum. I would honestly bore them to death if I had never discovered this place :wink:
Similarly, I can understand why some users would feel that people are complaining too much. It's just looking at things from a different perspective. I have often caught myself moaning in a post and thought 'wow I'm moaning a lot' but I only do that with the things I feel passionate about. We all have our favourite places/ attractions/ restaurants within the park. If they suddenly decided to close Billy Bobs I would think it a shame that it was going (especially as it's an orginal place with no Disney theme) but I wouldn't be sending round petitions or anything. But if they decided to close Annettes I would most certainly be straight on the forum delivering all manner of angry posts and, if I had the money I'd be tracking down the person who made the decision and giving them a piece of my mind!
My personal favourite ride is Crush, despite all its problems (now how many of you can argree with that? :shock: :wink: )
I think it boils down to the elements of the resort that we hold dear, whether it be born out of childhood memories or otherwise. What someone might be indifferent to is something that someone else feels really passionate about and there will be times that we all need a good moan/rant about something. I think the only time this becomes a problem is when it drags down the whole mood and feel of the forum (which in my opinion it hasn't done, I just think there's more opinions out there now). We've got a great forum here, by far the friendliest place on the internet (this topic included) and the reason for that is simple. We are all able to write what we want (in moderation :wink: ) good or bad, where people understand when we get annoyed about something just as much as when we get stupidly excited before we go to DLRP. People actually care about every detail of my holiday, including as many pictures as possible and what I had for breakfast each morning, where else do you find that?!
I cannot wait to do my trip report and I'm hoping that people will enjoy it.
We've got a great community here, moaning and all!
Magic M's post was top notch! Disneyland Paris is meant to be a place where you can get away from all the hassle and stress . To go on a trip and take pictures of those magic moment is something special but to go and come back and complain that a light bulb wasn't working is just pretty sad! I'm sure on your next trip the light bulb will be fixed again :lol: I wouldn't lose sleep over something like that. I understand people like Kristof who take pictures around the park and of rubbish bins :lol: but that is his hobby and it's what he enjoys doing but I don't see him taking pictures of all the tiniest faults. He takes pictures of what really matters... the magic. I'm just using Kristof as an example by the way :lol:
So I say here's to the next stage of DLRP's development and hopefully it will be as magical as ever! :)
Like I have said before, I do understand people complaining about all the bad things at Disneyland, bur in my opinion they shouldn't just complain here on the forum. When we have been the last time to DLRP I told all the things I didn't like about the parks the CMs at the City Hall. I don't know if this helps, but at least I have the feeling that they get to know that there is not everything okay in the parks.
I didn't complain about broken lightbulbs, but I did complain about the restrooms and about the overloaded dustbins. Nevertheless I try to see the positive things at Disneyland, because I can go there only once a year and for me it is still the most magical place on earth.
I also don't know about the condition of the parks 15 years ago, but from 2006 to 2008 I have been there every year and condition of the parks improved from year to year.
There are also many people who think that the American parks are better maintained than DLRP. It might be true for Disneyland Anaheim, but not for WDW. Maybe Disney improved WDW during the last year, but in 2008 DLRP was by far the better maintained resort.
I will see how the parks will be in February and then I will judge again.
Right, those of us complaining about things, are not doing it because we enjoy negativity. We're doing it because we want to see Disneyland Paris get better, not worse. We're trying to help the parks, and steer them away from getting uglier and tackier, by providing constructive feedback. Of course, if no-one at Disneyland Paris actually reads what we write, it's all kind of pointless :-)
I guess for a kid today that grew up with the Walt Disney Studios Park, and thinks it is the best thing in the World, it's kind of hard to understand how Disney has declined. Disappointment and the resulting "negativity" is simply the result of having expectations higher than the reality. I mean, if your expectations are low and you don't know any better, Armageddon is the best special effects show in the World. That's easy.
A lot of us are just disappointed in the quality Disney is delivering today, based on what they used to deliver 15-20 years ago. They used to build things that exceeded your expectations, that were bigger, better and more innovative than what you were used to. But these days, they're not trying so hard, they're not trying to be the best, they're less ambitious, they're settling for less. And the result of that is: Toy Story Playland in a Disney park, and the Wizarding World of Harry Potter in a non-Disney park.
Well said Alan.
Concerning TSPL I have mixed feelings. WDS really needs attractions for younger guests, except the Magic Carpets and Cars there is nothing for children and TSPL focuses mainly on the younger guests. So I do understand why Disney is building this carnival rides, but they should have chosen other small rides instead.
The next thing is that Euro Disney is always out of money so they don't have the background to build attractions like Splash Mountain or Indiana Jones Adventure at the monent. But money isn't the only problem.
You just have to look to Florida and Anaheim. Both resorts are making a lot of money and Disney is there also on the cheap side. At first the big mistake with DCA, which gets fixed now, and than DAK with these cheap Dinoland USA.
The management thinks that people will come as long as there is the Disney logo at the entrance.
In my opinion Disney became a too large company during the last 20 years and so they lost the way. I also think that there are too many people, that came from outside the company, in the management team. They have learned at college and university how to reduce costs and not what Disney is/was all about.
WDI has also lost a lot of credits, but I hope this all gets better again since John Lasetter is part of WDI. Except TSPL the new attractions look really good and hopefully DLRP will receive such attractions for the 20th birthday