This must be the biggest change to Thunder Mesa for quite a while - Last Chance Café, the restaurant with only its counter covered (and so frequently closed) is getting a large new covered terrace:
(//http://www.dlrptoday.com/images/2009/09/02_last-chance-cafe-01sm.jpg)
Finally a good idea from Food & Beverages!
More pictures... (//http://www.dlrptoday.com/2009/09/02/more-chance-at-new-last-chance-cafe-extension/)
Quote from: "Anthony"This must be the biggest change to Thunder Mesa for quite a while - Last Chance Café, the restaurant with only its counter covered (and so frequently closed) is getting a large new covered terrace:
(//http://www.dlrptoday.com/images/2009/09/02_last-chance-cafe-01sm.jpg)
Finally a good idea from Food & Beverages!
More pictures... (//http://www.dlrptoday.com/2009/09/02/more-chance-at-new-last-chance-cafe-extension/)
Hopefully the first of
many good ideas!
Strangely when I was there last, in a conversation someone mentioned to me that it would be a good idea for DL(R)P to cover the Last Chance Cafe area. Someone must have been listening :wink:
oo i loved sitting outside there hope it dosent lose all the sun heheh but very good for those rainy days :D
Great idea. A covered terrace is something Last Chance has been needing for a long time now (especially in the summer when the sun is melting you).
As already said, hopefully more good ideas like this will develop [-o<
looks like its nearly finished , they were tiling the roof this last week
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=9 ... =745295496 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=9090442&l=778348ced3&id=745295496)
It's as if a sudden wave of sense has hit the 'resort'. Lots of good ideas coming into play (appart from the Playland sign. Such a wasted opportunity there but I'm confident it will change in time)
New Updates on Disneytheque :) :
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http://www.disneytheque.com/Rehabs__tra ... 70aabd64a8 (http://www.disneytheque.com/Rehabs__travaux_et_baches__6_a33.html?PHPSESSID=b02dc28c3aa45482e0f0cc70aabd64a8)
Ok, I am trying to hold judgement. AS someone who grew up with towns like the one in Frontierland, I am a little concerned that it will not look right with one bit jutting out. Also, it gets rid of the covered walkway from Liberty Arcade to Phantom Manor. I have to say, I am not a fan.
I will hold final judgement until it is finished, but I am nervous.
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Also, it gets rid of the covered walkway from Liberty Arcade to Phantom Manor.
Does it? There should still be a gap between the new covered seating and the indoor serving counter, I don't see why they'd get rid of that. I know what you mean about it not fitting into Thunder Mesa though, we'll have to wait and see.
Overall, the finish is looking pretty good. I don't think I'll ever get my head around how something like this can happen just weeks after something like Blockbuster Café. Do they have some kind of good/awful rota to follow at DLP-Imagineering, or is WDS just considered to be not worth bothering with?
C'est fini!
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Source: mouetto at Disney Central Plaza (//http://disneycentralplaza.englishboard.net/disneyland-paris-f6/la-terrasse-couverte-du-last-chance-cafe-t13017-20.htm) (video available in the link)
To be honest, I think it looks fine. With a bit of weathering it should blend it perfectly. :)
Ok, as someone who grew up going to Virginia City (the key reference point for Frontierland), the land used to be very authentic. Sadly this looks more theme park (non Disney) than authentic.
:cry:
But for the rest of us it looks just like we think these things should!!!!
Quote from: "ed-uk"But for the rest of us it looks just like we think these things should!!!!
Exactly, I and the vast majority of people will think that the extension looks authentic.
However, it really could do with some weathering, it looks too new. Should look fine after a few months.
I for one have no experience of the covered seating in Virginia City. But as a piece of imagineering in a Disney theme park it works for me.
I actually think is looks great. Really surprised they put props inside the terrace, good show =D>
Also as people have already said give it a few months to whiter and it'll be perfect.
I think it looks good, very Western-stylish (at least for me). In my opinion, it fits well into Frontierland.
It looks very good in my opinion - let's see how it looks for real next week, but as some of you say it will be good with some weathering :)
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Ok, as someone who grew up going to Virginia City (the key reference point for Frontierland), the land used to be very authentic. Sadly this looks more theme park (non Disney) than authentic.
:cry:
I can see what you mean - I was going to nit-pick on a few things myself. But to honest, with all the other crap that's going on at the resort at the moment (Blockbuster Cafe, MMP, castle decorations etc.), this really isn't
that bad is it?
Out of interest, what is it exactly that makes the new covered area different to, say, the actual Last Chance building behind it to you? Is there something wrong with the design itself or just the way it sticks out?
I think it looks great, give it a few months and I think it'll look even better!
the only suggestion I have, is that they put more roof tiles on the "smooth" sections of roof, they look a bit bizarre at the moment!
I reserve final judgement until I see it in real, but at the moment: I'm not a fan. Sure the theming it is not as bad as some of the other stuff they did in the past, but it is not that great either. But I am much more concerned about its' sheer size and also its' location. And somehow it doesn't look like something that would be found in the type of western town Thunder Mesa is representing - judging alone from my Western Movie watching experience though...
It's Disney's version of Frontierland. We're looking at it through the eyes of Disney and the imagineers. It's about useing some imagination. It's not the real Frontierland of the 1880's. Disney have romanticized it. Did they have covered seating in the old days of the wild west? They need it in Disneyland Paris when it's pouring with rain.
If you watch the video, you will see that there are electric fires inside boxes fixed on the ceiling! It's an another detail which will be very practical to have your meal outside.
Just watched the video via the link. I didn't realise that the extension wasn't actually an "extension", it's not built off the current facade, it's just a hut in front of it.
I thought the point of the extension was to create a rain-proof environment, but there's this one strip of open air between the counter and the new seating area?
Quote from: "Nicolai"I reserve final judgement until I see it in real, but at the moment: I'm not a fan. Sure the theming it is not as bad as some of the other stuff they did in the past, but it is not that great either. But I am much more concerned about its' sheer size and also its' location. And somehow it doesn't look like something that would be found in the type of western town Thunder Mesa is representing - judging alone from my Western Movie watching experience though...
Actually, looking at it a bit more, I see what you mean. It looks as if it's been added only to provide shelter and doesn't look authentic or as if it's always been there. It's not in the exact same style as the original building either. The shelter seems to be the "main" part of the whole structure now, and the part containing the actual cafe is just some random building at the back.
I quite like it. I understand what you mean about the disjointed nature of it, however it solves a practical problem in a pleasantly themed way.
I can imagine sitting outside having a coffee and watching the world go by.
That looks quite good, actually! Great way for people to stay dry during rain periods in the park. Theming is excellent and it blends in nicely.
Thanks for the photos & video mouetto!
[youtube:2iuy7wfe]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGwAkZPtqfE[/youtube:2iuy7wfe]
Props?! Details?!! Very surprising to see the roofspace used like that, and more impressive still to see some of the wooden supports on the section on the right having some actual detail to them (curved bits at the top and indents). Lots of nice details like the lamps, shelves and bullet holes.
There are bits which could have been better. The frontage needs some WDI-style weathering. There's an ugly empty space where the old sign used to be (as RnRCj said, the building is just dead now). And I agree completely with luke85 that the flat roof sections should have been tiled. I can't tell exactly what's used there instead, but that's wound up looking cheap.
Shame, because it's so nearly there! At least this time rather than being annoyed at a complete royal mess-up (Blockbuster Cafe), we're only annoyed they didn't just jump that final hurdle, or other metaphor to suggest spending a few final euros...
Inside, and from this angle (//http://www.images-squish.net/users/Free/26177.JPG), it looks excellent!
(By the way - here's how it used to look (//http://www.photosmagiques.com/gallery/disneyland_park/frontierland/last_chance_cafe/DSC09086.JPG))
It'll look even better when the tables and chairs arrive. I think the before and after pictures are helpful. There's no great themeing about those umbrellas. They don't look authentically frontierland to me.
I forgot to post this pic:
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In real, you we will see that it's not shocking at all.
The terrace is close to the trees and it's really nice.
I think this looks quite good really , I was suprised to see the props added under the roof space ! It seems as if they have actually put a bit of thought into it , not perfect but I don't think any DLP fan would find any new addition to the parks 100% perfect ! (myself included !)
I'm really torn. I think it looks good, especially if you're sat inside it with all the themeing, and I certainly think the Last Chance Cafe needed some cover. I also agree that the old umbrella's didn't exactly have a wild west charm about them.
However, I'm just wondering if the view as you walk into Frontierland will be diminished? Obviously the view of BTM and most of the lake will be unaffected. But I loved walking through the big wooden doors and trying to peak round the corner of the Lucky Nugget and see Phantom Manor resting on the hill. Perhaps that's just me and obviously I'm not going to have imagineers seeking written permission from myself to go ahead!
Also, I'm very surprised they chose not to tile the roof, surely the point of the deisn of the building they've created is to be in keeping with the rest of the area and for it not to stick out like a sore thumb! Even if the metal had been weathered, distressed in some way or actually made out of cooper that would have been better than what they have at the moment?
Quote from: "jeakat24"... However, I'm just wondering if the view as you walk into Frontierland will be diminished? Obviously the view of BTM and most of the lake will be unaffected. But I loved walking through the big wooden doors and trying to peak round the corner of the Lucky Nugget and see Phantom Manor resting on the hill. Perhaps that's just me ...
No, not just you, that was my first thought too as I realized how big this terrace extension is. The curve of buildings between the Lucky Nugget Saloon and Phantom Manor is just lovely and so well designed and I fear very much this thing breaks it.
Quote from: "jeakat24"Also, I'm very surprised they chose not to tile the roof, surely the point of the deisn of the building they've created is to be in keeping with the rest of the area and for it not to stick out like a sore thumb! Even if the metal had been weathered, distressed in some way or actually made out of cooper that would have been better than what they have at the moment?
This is the biggest prob I have with it. If it were weathered the way the other buildings had been (and were opening days), then it would not have been as big a prob to me.
Well yes quite. I'm sure to some people we can come across as picky and moany, after all it's just little details, but that's exactly the problem. With a Disney resort you expect everything to be well thought out and every little detail be taken care of, including all of those little touches that just adds the magic the way only Disney can.
Quote from: "jeakat24"Well yes quite. I'm sure to some people we can come across as picky and moany, after all it's just little details, but that's exactly the problem. With a Disney resort you expect everything to be well thought out and every little detail be taken care of, including all of those little touches that just adds the magic the way only Disney can.
Yes! Thats's exactly it! We moan because we know Disney can do better. If there was no evidence that they could do better, there would no need to moan. :)
Not only can they do better, they must do better. In my opinion the french managers and their "Imagineers" have a obligation to keep this masterpiece that the American Imagineers left them with in the best possible form.
Don't forget, our Magic Kingdom is a very special one, the Imagineers really went out of their ways to top the existing ones in every possible manner. No other MK comes even close in regards of the quality of the details and the themeing. No other has a three story Pirates, no other has a living and breathing dragon inside its' castle, no other has a Big Thunder Mountain in the middle of a lake, no other has so much intricate details wherever you look! So imho they can not just go on and build cheap stuff wherever they like if they are not willing to put the same amount of effort (and money) into it that is just necessary to keep the top level they have to deal with in DLP.
:x
I think the American imagineers should have thought about the weather and built a covered terrace in the first place. It looks new and added on because it is. I wonder how may people used the cafe, it was always closed when we went. What's the good of that? In the summer Disney used to arrange tables and chairs around umbrellas on the terrace. No great themeing with that. My local pub could do it. I think the covered seating is a much better idea. Maybe the cafe will be open more now. I don't know how much it cost to build, but money being tight at DLP they must have had a budget to keep to. So could they have done better? As for the themeing, it looked fine when I first saw the pictures. I don't know how authentic it is, I don't even know if they had covered seating outside cafes in the wild west.
Nicolai - well said!
Quote from: "ed-uk"It looks new and added on because it is.
It shouldn't do though. They could have put a lot more effort into blending it in with it's surroundings - making it look more authentic and as if it had been there all along!
Quote from: "ed-uk"So could they have done better?
Yes, and they
need to do better if they want remain the best of the best in the theme park industry.
When it's been rained and snowed on a few times it won't look new anymore, it should blend in better, by which time the whole area will need redecorating so it looks in a good state of repair, just like on opening day. Alot comes down to money in the end. So maybe they didn't do such a bad job. It's better than sitting out in the rain, or under a B&Q style umbrella.
Sorry Ed-UK, I do think you give Disney too much of a free pass. This cafe was always built be like an ODV, that was the intention, with counter service at the Lucky Nugget and table at the Silver Spur.
Disneyland was awesome back in 1955 because of the attention to detail, they had "agers" in imagineering who's job it was to make these things look authentic. And when Space Mountain opened in DLP, Tim Delany made them repaint the canon because it was too clean looking (ruining the illusion). Sadly, Space Mountain is again too clean looking on the canon and this new ediface is not aged sufficiently, therefore it is lacking the Disney difference.
It's not so much that I like to give Disney a free pass, it's just that they make these wonderful theme park attractions happen. They design it and get it built, it doesn't mean they shouldn't change anything if they need to. In my view it would have been better if Disney had designed and built the cafe with a covered terrace in the first place. That would have been better suited to the Paris weather. As it is, yes I agree it does look like the terrace has just been added on, and that's because it wasn't designed to have a terrace in the first place, which I think was a small mistake. Disneyland still does have a wonderful attention to detail. But there's not much point having a cafe in a theme park if it's hardly ever open. Since Disneyland opened in California in 1955, Disney have made many changes and modifications to it. And in my view they are entitled to do so. They covered the terrace at Plaza Gardens at DLP.
Quote from: "ed-uk"But there's not much point having a cafe in a theme park if it's hardly ever open. Since Disneyland opened in California in 1955, Disney have made many changes and modifications to it. And in my view they are entitled to do so. They covered the terrace at Plaza Gardens at DLP.
Ah yes, and I am not against change. But every change has been with tlc and befitting at DL (except the changes on Tom Sawyer Island, I cannot say that of DLP or even WDW to a degree).
If this area has been shingled, or the metal had been aged, then I could perhaps be more accepting.
But when I think about this, and Woody's Roundup, and the Pocahantas playground, and the Stitch show in Discoveryland, and the Backlot express changes, and Toy Story Playland, and even Toon Studios, I believe DLP has lost it, and is closer to Merlin or Busch than the Disney I fell in love with.
It's all a matter of opinion, too bad if you think DLP have lost it, I don't. I think it makes sense to have a covered terrace at the Cafe, and it won't look new for long. You're very critical when it comes to DLP. I don't know what you mean about Disneyland in California when you say " every change has been with tic and befitting at DL" This is the park that produced Light Magic, what a farce that was. They closed the county bears in Critter Country and Stuck in Winnie The Pooh. That was very controversial with many people on forums. The Submarine Voyage sat closed for years and years until they opened it again as a Nemo attraction. If DLP had done that, you would say that they had lost it. I think Euro Disney have done a good job with the changes and improvements made at the Studios. They've tried to please everyone and cover all ages.
QuoteYou're very critical when it comes to DLP.
Yes -
because we know they can do better!! There's a whole load of evidence. We only criticize because we want DLP to be the best it can be, rather than just accepting a low level of quality! :wink:
The reality of this is that the terrace is not up to standard it should be. And something needs to be done about it.
In DL California they have recently added a new food stand in Fantasyland. And guess what? It looks fantastic! It fits the theme perfectly and has lots of fitting details! All for just a food stand!
In Paris, the new terrace doesn't fit the theme perfectly and has details (props) which don't actually make sense. We shouldn't have to wait for it to get aged. It should get aged in the first place.
As Anthony said earlier, they simply didn't jump the last hurdle on this one. They were close - I mean, they actually added props! But Disney always used to jump the last hurdle - and sometimes jump an extra one! :P
I'm pleased you're happy with the new food stand in Fantasyland at Disneyland in California. I could say the same about the new food stand that was built in fantasyland at DLP. You know, the one with the tree. I think the mistake was made at the Last Chance Cafe when it wasn't built with covered seating in the first place. Disneyland Paris have tried to put that right.
Quote from: "ed-uk"I'm pleased you're happy with the new food stand in Fantasyland at Disneyland in California. I could say the same about the new food stand that was built in fantasyland at DLP. You know, the one with the tree.
Yes, l'Arbre Enchanté! That's sort of what I meant when I said we have evidence they can do better! They do produce little gems like this every now and then. There's the food carts at the Café Hyperion too.
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http://www.dlrptimes.com/article-last-c ... 73083.html (http://www.dlrptimes.com/article-last-chance-cafe-nouvelle-terrasse-37773083.html)
Was this section of Last Chance Café there all along? It uses a different (nicer) wood, has a different (nicer) roof and its supports are actually detailed at the top, just like they should be.
If it isn't new, why is it the only bit that doesn't look like it came straight from Mr Bricolage?
For me, it's still the front of the extension which ruins it. The flat wood panels behind the signage are way too thin and flat. Compared to the very bulky, real wood everywhere else in Thunder Mesa, it really does look like a flatpack.
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The unused space above the sign is weird too. There should be something there.
In my opinion the terrace doesn't look bad, but I have to agree with you that the front looks a little bit weird with the flat wood panels behind the logo.
The problem is, like RnRCj said, that it looks as though they glanced at the existing buildings and went "yeah, we've got the gist of it." It doesn't look authentic or as if they put much effort into the design.
But it's not horrible... They've done much worse.
Quote from: "pussinboots"It doesn't look authentic or as if they put much effort into the design. But it's not horrible... They've done much worse.
Sad, but that sums it up quite nicely.
Oh, my. Alain made some panoramic pics that reveal the scale of the mess, it is much worse than I feared:
http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2009/ ... hance.html (http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2009/11/disneyland-paris-update-last-chance.html)
This thing is much, much larger than I imagined, and it does indeed totally break the smooth curve of buildings between the Lucky Nugget and Phantom Manor entrance that was there before. :(
Thanks for posting that Nicolai.
I'll start with a positive: the theming inside looks very well thought out. I like the reward poster wall, although I will reserve judgment until I've seen it in person because it might be a bit tacky.
I totally agree with Ed-Uk when you say that they should have thought about the weather and built a covered terrace in the first place. It's a very good point but if they had have built it in the first place then it wouldn't have looked like what they have given us now because, as many people have said, the imagineers working on the original development of DLP had thought of every detail.
If it had been built in the first place I suspect that they would have designed the cafe to be further back so that the terrace was in line with/ only stuck out a bit further than the rest of the buildings.
Of course they couldn't move the Last Chance Cafe back with this new development, far too much cost, plus I think it would eat into the inside of the Lucky Nugget, so that obviously wasn't viable. However, where the Last Chance terrace is on a diagonal in relation to the other buildings, the side sticks out, why couldn't they make the corner that points towards the shop and the entrance to BTM a diagonal too? At least that would have fitted in with the flow of the existing buildings and improved the eyeline.
Also, you're right Antony, that front sign looks like cheap flat pack!
Quote from: "jeakat24"I'll start with a positive: the theming inside looks very well thought out. I like the reward poster wall...
Hehe, I like that the positives are things that were already there.
Quote from: "jeakat24"Also, you're right Antony, that front sign looks like cheap flat pack!
Looking at these pictures, it's still the only thing that really stands out as "wrong" to me. Compare it to the very bulky, well-designed frontages and signs of the Lucky Nugget/Silver Spur and it looks like a temporary sign you'd find stuck on a construction wall.
Maybe they should take that front panel off and just have it empty, leaving the gaps between the wooden supports, as a general terrace, then re-install the original signage on the building behind, which is still completely bare.
Anyway, it's fun to see Alain questioning something at DLP. When will he get onto Studio 1?
Looking at the new photos I think it looks far worse than I thought !! :( The metal roof looks awful ,and the signage doesn't work at all ! It doesn't look like a proper building , it should have been made to look like stables or a barn , really it is just a giant garden gazebo that you could pick up from B&Q ! The attempt at some themeing inside is the only good thing, at least they made some effort there !
we sat there on Monday and my step mum who had never been before thought it had been there ages and they had just fixed the roof, and the cafe was packed and all the tables were being used so it looks like its more of a winner than the blockbuster cafe
ive just got back from a great trip, and ive got some photos that show this 'unweathered' roof actually fits in!!!! As I came out of phantom manor and looked at the roof I realised it matches EXACTLY the roof on the river boat loading area, the 2 roofs look as if if they balance each other out. It doesnt look unweathered/unfinished at all, it looks exactly right!!!
Please, let's see your photos.
here we go
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last chance
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loading area
sorry about the quality as they were taken on my iphone as my battery died on my camera
but can you see they look the same and like i said when you come from phantom manor they really balance each other
Thanks for posting your photos, I was interested to see them. Yes, they do look the same and balance each other. I thought the covered seating was a good idea anyway and your photos show this. I would imagine the Last Chance Cafe is a nice place to sit now in the winter. Thank you again, and I hope you had a nice time there.
the covered seating works REALLY well, weve been to the resort for 7 days this month and had a mix of freezing cold and wet weather ( not enough to spoil the fun ) and the cafe has been busy all the time, and the food there is different from all the other cafes in that price range - bbq turkey legs and onion rings, and texan stuff mmmmm. So a big thumbs up for the food too. Until the extension we have never been there before
We have never used The Last Chance Cafe. We didn't pay much attention to it, just walked past. When we go again we'll give it a try. I'm looking forward to going back for some magic myself.
Spot on about the roof. I mentioned this earlier - why is that small section different to the rest? Why are the wooden supports here rounded and detailed, when the rest are all straight angles like something bought from a DIY store? Perhaps they wanted it to flow into the Riverboat Landing better. It turned out much better-looking than the rest.
Good to see the UK isn't alone with this awful weather anyway. :wink:
I am very curious to see it myself in March (and of course all the other changes since May 2008)!
I will probably miss that wide open space, but on the other hand, it will be a good place to hide from the weather (either rain or sun). In my opinion, it's always difficult to tell things from photos, and I'll try to stay neutral until I see it in real.
food: (sorry for missusing this thread :mrgreen: )
theLCC has been closed during my last - let's say: 10? - visits, so unfortunately I have never had the chance to eat there after the year of about 1994. I am very eager to know what's on the menu now (Turkey legs and onion rings sound great!). I remember in 1992 and 1993 they served different kinds of wraps, which I really liked and I was dissappointed every time afterwards when it was closed (but since we like to travel during off-season, that's something we have to live with).
What has been served there during the last couple years? Still these TEx-Mec-style things or just some general fast food? I can imagine that this place (as many others in the park) lost a lot of its variety of the first couple years, but I would like to know from you. and then we could go back to the topic. :mrgreen: