Hello everyone!
I come today to tell you about the very important project of creating a new F1 circuit!
In France, during the first week of July takes place the French Grand Prix at Magny-Cours. But this year, the circuit was closed and management of the F1 circuit want to move to Dineyland ...!
Most French fans are mobilized against the creation of this circuit which does not correspond to the investment project of Disney! Moreover, this circuit should take place directly on the ground reserved for the 3rd ... theme park!
This circuit is also very close to neighboring (Bailly-Romainvilliers and Magny-le-Hongre) and could generate pollution!
A petition was created by Fans on the Internet to mobilize the community of Disney Fans against the creation of the F1 circuit!
For the time other projects are also under consideration in the outskirts of Paris but from many people, the circuit is that Disney would have the support of F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone!
I invite you to sign this petition and visit the site of the collective created against the creation of the F1 circuit at Val d'Europe!
WEB SITE : http://ccvde.web.officelive.com/default.aspx (http://ccvde.web.officelive.com/default.aspx%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;) (In French but you can translate in English with Google)
PETITION : http://www.petitionduweb.com/voirpetiti ... ition=2088 (http://www.petitionduweb.com/voirpetition.php?petition=2088%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
Thank you for your future support and do not hesitate to spread the word to preserve our Resort and avoid disfiguring Disneyland Resort Paris!
Personally i think a F1 circuit at DLRP would be cool.
Not too sure weather this should be moved to the offical F1 circuit at DLRP topic (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4591 (https://forum.dlpguide.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4591%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)) or weblinks because you are advertising your/a website and petition. ;)
Personally, I hate the idea of the F1 circuit. Can you imagine the pollution and noise it would create? It would also take up a huge part DLRP's expansion area.
I've signed the petition.
I hate the whole idea. The noise, the pollution (of both air and image), the clientele, the beer... Not to mention how Disneyland Paris has so far maintained a lovely, relatively green, park-like air. It hardly needs this asphalt nightmare. Yeah, I'll sign.
I'm sure they've learned their lesson with the Walt Disney Studios and will negotiate their way out of the third park contract. This is not the answer.
Considering that, in 2008, DLRP got the most publicity just due to the *idea* of F1 setting up a circuit at that site, and not because of ToT or Kids go Free (do a Google search in English, French, German, Italian, Spanish etc.) - no, I cannot sign such a petition even though I couldn't care less about F1.
And seriously: except for maybe one or two weekends a year, the whole F1 circuit idea would probably create less pollution and noise than that fan boy's wet dream that is that famed "3rd gate".
I love motorsport, however it won't happen. I posted my opinions in the other thread so I won't bore anyone with them again.
I would like to correct a few things in the original post.
Circuit Magny Nevers Court is not closed. Motor racing circuits do not solely exist for one race. Indeed, next years French Grand Prix will be at Magny Cours.
http://www.magnyf1.com/index.php (http://www.magnyf1.com/index.php%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/6/7994.html (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/6/7994.html%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
Promotion of such an event would not be handled by a company as inexperienced in such things as Disney..
If it is going to happen it wil be at least 3 years away due to the necessary homgolation to bring the circuit up to FIA standards.
I will be gobsmacked if this happens, it is not in Disney's interest to promote it since everyone who promotes a race loses money hand over fist, so who will promote it? Nobody is on the horizon who has the money and the will...
I think F1 is very good idea, alot of business (From very rich people) off season for 1 weekend a year.
Besides its only a rumour, when Bernie Ecclestone actually says so and gives it the go then we can complain ;)
I don't know if this is true or not, but I have the same opinion as RnRCj and signed the petition, too!
Quote from: "ford prefect"I love motorsport, however it won't happen. I posted my opinions in the other thread so I won't bore anyone with them again
I will be gobsmacked if this happens, it is not in Disney's interest to promote it since everyone who promotes a race loses money hand over fist, so who will promote it? Nobody is on the horizon who has the money and the will...
I absolutely agree........I'm not a betting man but if I were then I would have a few bob on this just being a pipe dream :roll:
It will never happen :P
Now where's my hat............ :wink:
Epcot_Boy :ears:
I must say: I don´t like the idea of a F1 circuit at the Resort. It´s just a noisy and enviroment unfriendly thing. For a Resort which describe itself as "green" and a place where everyone can also find a quiet corner it´s absolute the wrong decission. And don´t think that it will bring MUCH more money to the resort. It´s costly and the guest for F1 will watch the race and the F1-center around the circuit and not main street USA or Toon Studios. They won´t bring the big money to the parks boutiques.
The resort should try to get regular Disney guests who spent there time and money inside the parks and not at the F1-circuit and their merchandise.
If I try to imagine get waked in the morning by motor noise at neport bay club that would be a absolute ugly thing for me. You can even hear the relative quiet motor noise from the stunt show there. So you just have to imagine motor noise on main street or at lake disney to bang your head again the wall.
I´m on the same here with pussinboots, RnRCj and nala.
F1 is not Disney business, so let them out of the resort.
It would be huge for the resort. The amount of countries that are on the list taht want a grand prix is huge, the investment of further hotels and as it would be very likely that all the hotels would have 100% occupency. The Resort could have a racing weekend with special theming and new costumes for the characters to celebrate motorport.
The noise wouldn't be too bad, its not as if there would be races everyday of the year and most regular visitors would be clever enough to avoid the resort for that weekend so they wouldn't have to worry about the noise issue.
Singapore only took 18 months to build so it could be easily ready in a few seasons.
My personal opinion is that I would prefer that a 3rd gate was built on the site, I love Formula One but I couldn't resist another Disney park being built, especially if it would be a totally unique idea. (e.g. Not Disney Sea, EPCOT, Parasian Adventure or Animal Kingdom).
Quote from: WillowSingapore only took 18 months to build so it could be easily ready in a few seasons.
quote]
The build is the easy part. The relevant permissions, designs and consultations take the time.
Remember that Disneyland Paris started in the late 80's (perhaps someone could confirm the year) when Eisner and Mitterand signed the agreement.
It then didn't open until 1992.
Donington Park will hold the British Grand Prix from 2010. It still hasn't got the necessary permissions and work must start in November if it is to be ready. The political will is more important than the financial will. That is why Singapore only took 20 years from conception to completetion!
If the French Government and Bernie Eccelstone want the track at Disney it would be very easy for them to put through the planning permission quicker than usual.
I agree, If Ecclestone and the French Government wanted it at Disney...
The problem is that Francois Fillion (PM) is not an F1 fan.
Since the government are the ones that will have to pay the bill and currently governments are too busy bailing out banks and other financial institutions, I think the political will is political won't.
Quote from: "Riebi"If I try to imagine get waked in the morning by motor noise at neport bay club that would be a absolute ugly thing for me. You can even hear the relative quiet motor noise from the stunt show there. So you just have to imagine motor noise on main street or at lake disney to bang your head again the wall.
F1 is not Disney business, so let them out of the resort.
Yes, that's all the Newport Bay Club needs — noise and 300 rooms with views of an F1 circuit.
What I fail to understand is why it needs to be precisely on Disneyland Paris' third park spot. Why not
near the Resort? Are they trying to lump together all the "beauf" entertainment so the sophisticated Parisians can more easily avoid it?
Well I think it's a good idea, the size of a Grand Prix Circuit would not interfere too much with the expansion area, as the track could be built on the outskirts within reason, fill the middle sections with various attractions, using walkovers or subways. I agree with the richness of the sport, I'm a Ferrari supporter myself, yes blazing red. Why don't they theme the circuit with Pixar's 'Cars', maybe add Lightning McQueen.. :D/ :D/
I think it would work, especially the revenue it could bring to DLRP and those talking about the pollution and noise, it's only for one weekend of the year as far as Formula 1 goes. Though the track could be used for other events for the rest of the time.. :wink: :D
A circuit needs far more than F1 to be profitable.
My local circuit is Silverstone which has so far hosted the following big events this year:
FIA GT (super cars such as Ferrari, Maserati, Lamboghini etc)
Le Mans Series (as in the 24 hour race sports cars)
Britcar 24 hour race
Superbikes (motorbike racing)
Formula 1
Formula 3
Touring Cars
Drifting
Historic meetings.
Note that pretax profits (excluding F1) was approx 8million pounds. When F1 is factored in Silverstone made a £100000 loss.
A high profile circuit like one at DLP would attract MotoGp, A1GP, possibly even Stock Cars or IRL.
The circuit would be very busy.
With my motorsport fan's hat on I would love it, however it would not be good for Disney. Even so I would still use the circuit.
Javey74: I see you are a Ferrari supporter. My wife and I are Mclaren fans and would like to express our condolences for last weekends utter foul up by the red team :D/
Quote from: "pussinboots"I hate the whole idea. The noise, the pollution (of both air and image), the clientele, the beer... .
Hi, I didn't really notice this aspect of your post! Motor racing fans are by and large not drunken louts wrecking hotel rooms and being sick on the pavement.
I have been to more motor racing events than I care to count, my wife was interested in F1 long before I was and our children aged 4 and 2 happily come to races with us and thoroughly enjoy them.
Motorsport fans tend to be a civilised lot, and do not indulge in the kind of partisan rivallry you see in many other sports(although there is always a friendly banter!)
The "clientele" as you call us are a pretty family friendly bunch, some of us even love Disneyland Paris as much as we do racing.
Quote from: "ford prefect"Javey74: I see you are a Ferrari supporter. My wife and I are Mclaren fans and would like to express our condolences for last weekends utter foul up by the red team :D/
Yeah, bring back Ross Brawn. But then again aren't Mclaren just a siver Ferrari this year..They got all they needed to know last year didn't they ?.... :mrgreen:
Fair point!
Quote from: "ford prefect"A circuit needs far more than F1 to be profitable.
My local circuit is Silverstone which has so far hosted the following big events this year:
FIA GT (super cars such as Ferrari, Maserati, Lamboghini etc)
Le Mans Series (as in the 24 hour race sports cars)
Britcar 24 hour race
Superbikes (motorbike racing)
Formula 1
Formula 3
Touring Cars
Drifting
Historic meetings.
Note that pretax profits (excluding F1) was approx 8million pounds. When F1 is factored in Silverstone made a £100000 loss.
A high profile circuit like one at DLP would attract MotoGp, A1GP, possibly even Stock Cars or IRL.
The circuit would be very busy.
With my motorsport fan's hat on I would love it, however it would not be good for Disney. Even so I would still use the circuit. [...]
Thanks for your objectivity. I appreciate that the idea must be tempting for a motor sport fan like yourself, but indeed it would not exactly add to the allure and atmosphere at Disneyland Paris and its hotels — especially if it should be home to all that activity you listed. Again, think of the Newport Bay Club...
Sorry about the beer joke — I suppose I'm just thinking of a specific portion of motor sport fans. The thing is, though, the resort (especially Disney Village) is very susceptible to any large celebrations that thrive on testosterone. Disney Village was a complete nightmare during the soccer championships this year. There were groups of loud, boisterous men with beer in plastic cups everywhere, and even in the parks the queues were filled with tipsy, smoking folks in a specific genre of celebratory spirit. There is nothing wrong with these things per se, but at Disney one expects a certain family-friendly, wholesome atmosphere — more Christmas than the Fourth of July, so to speak.
I just don't see this circuit do a lot of good for the atmosphere at the resort. But I may just be a judgmental, pigeonholing bastard.
My wife and I were in the middle of Disney Village with our little boy during the World Cup Finals, now I am not a football fan but I really appreciated how much everybody enjoyed the occasion.
I agree with your core point: Motor racing is not a good thing for DLRP. I appreciate your reasons for not wanting an F1 race, and I do believe that it won't happen.
However:
I won't sign a petition because that would make me the biggest hypocrite in the world, and, if it happens I will also be the first person to be buying tickets.
No problem with the beer joke! (Although my wife and I have been known to get very drunk in Billy Bobs before we had the children!!!)
Still, it makes for a good forum discussion. :lol: :lol:
Quote from: "ford prefect"A circuit needs far more than F1 to be profitable.
My local circuit is Silverstone which has so far hosted the following big events this year:
FIA GT (super cars such as Ferrari, Maserati, Lamboghini etc)
Le Mans Series (as in the 24 hour race sports cars)
Britcar 24 hour race
Superbikes (motorbike racing)
Formula 1
Formula 3
Touring Cars
Drifting
Historic meetings.
That´s one of my biggest points that I was thinking about. A circuit isn´t normaly just F1 a week. It´s a business and I don´t think they spend all the money for one week.
I haven´t anything again F1 personally. But I have everything again F1 at DLRP. I wanna make my personaly magical holiday there. I like to drive in and see all the nice planters etc. It´s for me a perfect place to be without anything perturbing. A circuit at DLRP would be a very ugly thing for me. And that for many reasons.
The view: Sorry but I like to stay at NPBC and I know a lot who like to stay at SL. I like to have a NICE look out of my window. I don´t pay this high price (for a 3 * hotel) just for watching a big racing circuit that doesn´t botter me in any way if I´m at Disney. Not very magical. "Look honey, that´s the big racing circuit, and that´s the big vip area for the racing structur and that over there is the big grandstand where all the little people can look the big races" Thank you. Welcome to reality, away from the magic.
The noise: I had the last time a room at NPBC that faced to WDS. And I must say: You can even hear the noise of the stunt show. And we´re not talking about a F1 race. Just a little show at the park farer away then the circuit would be. I don´t wanna hear motor noise in my holidays. Thank you again and welcome to reality again.
The enviroment thing: DLRP makes big really BIG adverts with their enviroment programms. I can´t take one of this thinks for serious with such a F1 circuit inside of DLRP. Sorry but saying "we make a enviroment friendly circuit" won´t do it. Planting some trees isn´t that what you expect today under the label enviroment friendly. That europe. You even get a bad view if you take your paper to the normal waste can.
There are some more but I stop for today :lol:
Let me simply say that this could really destroy my holiday and that would be an absolute cause to claim my money back. And yes I would do it! :evil:
Why must a circuit be in the Resort "Ring". Why not a property a bit away from DLRP. Let´s say 5 km or something like this. They even could use the good infrastructur and let the resort stay that magical place that is it. :roll:
And for all who wanna have a F1 attraction park: Go to Nürburgring. They built it there for you. No problem. But let Disney stay Disney.
This WOULD destroy my holiday magic:
//http://www.valeurope-san.fr/info/FR/Formule_1_%3A_enfin_les_plans/1670/060111
Don´t know what to think about it. Looks so weird. Maybe they should use Main Street and the roads of WDS too.
And it looks a bit that Val d´europe is a bit sceptical too...
It looks like they have tried to leave some space for a 3rd park, only small amount of space though.
From a F1 point of view im not a fan of the track layout.
Quote from: "Willow"It looks like they have tried to leave some space for a 3rd park, only small amount of space though.
Oh maybe they could create a very tiny small theme park next to the circuit. And maybe they should theme it a bit to the circuit like a big parking lot and some buildings around...eeer....give me a moment? Wasn´t that Walt Disney Studios at opening day?
It's a disaster.
Why is Euro Disney SCA allowing this?? Is Disney a supporter of this project, I know they do not invest, but why is Euro Disney SCA not against this stupid project.
What is the mother company "The Walt Disney Company" saying about the race track?
Ecclestone wants a F1 grand prix at DLRP and a few months later there is already a plan.
I also watch F1 races and I like it, but not at DLRP. There is really no connectin between Disney and Formula 1. I really don't understand it.
The neighbouring villages of DLRP are always complaining about the noises of the fireworks, but a formula 1 race is no problem?
Have you seen the new hotels on the plan? They look exactly the same like the Newport Bay. So is this an official plan?
Quote from: "pussinboots"Quote from: "ford prefect"I just don't see this circuit do a lot of good for the atmosphere at the resort. But I may just be a judgmental, pigeonholing bastard.
Pussinboots, while I am not happy at the prospect of the circuit being there, please be advised F1 is not Nascar. F1 is actually an upper middle class and upper class sport. The tickets are often in excess of $500 for a race, so it's not like US motor sports.
Still, I think this is a bad move for the resort and would prefer the 3rd park, water park and hotel expansion of the masterplan.
From a track design point of view it is not brilliant, making too much use of the existing public roads.
I fail to understand why they need to use the public roads, since they are not really wide enough and would requiire the construction of fairly hefty catch fencing and armco.
There is plenty of space to build a circuit that is fully self contained without spilling over onto the road infrastructure. This layout makes the circuit useless for other events, andtherefore a rather large white elephant.
The use of the other space is good, however I still don't believe it will happen.
Is it a disaster? If it spills on to the roads then yes. If it is self contained and well thought out then no. However DLP will not be a fun place to be if you don't like motorsport in the week preceeding and the week following the race.
I have said before that Disney have no experience of motorsport. I forgot that Imagineering designed the Pit Lane Park touring F1 theme park to great popularity amongst F1 fans.
Also the Richard Petty Speedway at Walt Disney World held the first ever Indycar race.
It might be worth considering the schedule currently used for F1.
The French Grand Prix usually accompanies the British Grand Prix in either late June or early July. June is the preferred month historically.
This would put any "Disney GP" out of the busy holiday period and less likely to interfere with holidaymakers plans.
The circus roles into town on the Monday before the race and leaves on the Sunday night.
A street circuit (of which this could be said) requires a build programme that for a new circuit would take 24months after planning has been granted and 3months intensive effort in the run up to the race.
Once the infrastrcture is in place the preparation each year would be approx 6 weeks.
The catch fencing and armco would need to be in place 4 weeks before the race for inspection by the FIA.
It would take about 2 weeks for the structure to be removed giving a total impact of 8 weeks on resort activity.
The concern for me, looking at the layout is the road leading to the partner hotels would need to be reduced to one lane for the duration and that is what suggests it probably would be rejected.
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Quote from: "pussinboots"Quote from: "ford prefect"I just don't see this circuit do a lot of good for the atmosphere at the resort. But I may just be a judgmental, pigeonholing bastard.
Pussinboots, while I am not happy at the prospect of the circuit being there, please be advised F1 is not Nascar. F1 is actually an upper middle class and upper class sport. The tickets are often in excess of $500 for a race, so it's not like US motor sports.
Still, I think this is a bad move for the resort and would prefer the 3rd park, water park and hotel expansion of the masterplan.
Oh, my god I'm an upper middle class drunken lout!!!!! :lol: :lol:
Quote from: "dagobert"The neighbouring villages of DLRP are always complaining about the noises of the fireworks, but a formula 1 race is no problem?
Have you seen the new hotels on the plan? They look exactly the same like the Newport Bay. So is this an official plan?
That´s an interesting point. The people who live at Val d´europe paid much for their homes at DLRP. So I could hear them complaining why they live now at a racing circuit instead at their promised calm and friendly Resort ambiance.
The plan seems to be from the "promoter" of this track. And that seems not to be Disney. I think the two Newport Bay Club Hotels are only placeholder. They don´t wanna say much about their future hotels theme etc..
I never seen such a cutted holiday destination. Why create nice parks and lakes. Cut it with a big racing circuit. . :evil: :roll: :cry:
QuoteIs it a disaster? If it spills on to the roads then yes. If it is self contained and well thought out then no. However DLP will not be a fun place to be if you don't like motorsport in the week preceeding and the week following the race.
And for the rest of the year you have this beautiful view from NPBC and SL. Nice magical tarmac. The people would like to look out of the windows and see just concrete and parking lots.
For me it´s a big disaster :wink: But let´s wait till 15.
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Pussinboots, while I am not happy at the prospect of the circuit being there, please be advised F1 is not Nascar. F1 is actually an upper middle class and upper class sport. The tickets are often in excess of $500 for a race, so it's not like US motor sports.
Still, I think this is a bad move for the resort and would prefer the 3rd park, water park and hotel expansion of the masterplan.
Yes yes, we've established that I have no idea what I'm talking about, haha. Sorry about that.
What currently frightens me is that map — if it had been any closer to the hotels it would have to cross the lobbies like the Contemporary Resort monorail. Brr.
Still don't understand what the problem with having an F1 circuit is, F1 and GP1 is hosted over 1 weekend, that's the main noise "issues" gone, as for other events they are alot quieter than F1 and wont interrupt day-to-day running of the parcs, As for the issues of going on the possible site for a 3rd park, surely, if this was the site why would dlrp allow someone to build an F1 track on their land ? ;)
Quote from: "Nicholas-c"Still don't understand what the problem with having an F1 circuit is, F1 and GP1 is hosted over 1 weekend, that's the main noise "issues" gone, as for other events they are alot quieter than F1 and wont interrupt day-to-day running of the parcs, As for the issues of going on the possible site for a 3rd park, surely, if this was the site why would dlrp allow someone to build an F1 track on their land ? ;)
I'm actually starting to get a bit worried regarding the third theme park. Most of us think DLRP has to build another park, but that's not really the case. According to the agreement with the French government, they have to build an "attraction" (not as in a theme park ride, but something that pulls in a certain amount of guests). If DLRP and the French State consider the F1 circuit as that attraction, we might not see a third theme park for a long long time. But that's just my thought. :?
Well seeings as my topic was closed I guess I will have to post here in this "Anti track" thread.
I am all for it. It will bring revenue to the resort, which is, after all exactly what EuroDisney SCA want.
QuoteI'm actually starting to get a bit worried regarding the third theme park. Most of us think DLRP has to build another park, but that's not really the case. According to the agreement with the French government, they have to build an "attraction" (not as in a theme park ride, but something that pulls in a certain amount of guests). If DLRP and the French State consider the F1 circuit as that attraction, we might not see a third theme park for a long long time. But that's just my thought. :?
I had never thought of it in those terms, this would make the project more likely since planning permission targets have already been acheived for a lot this.
I've never actually seen the problem with the F1 circuit from the beginning, it's only temporarily plus it's one weekend a year, so it wouldn't cause a lot of noise problems, plus the land will always be reserved for the third park, even with the circuit there. Plus the third park would maybe get an advantage by this, the resort would have a much bigger budget for the park since it's a while away, if the resort would've built it round 2012 they could risk having the WDS factor all over again.
Quote from: "mehdi5"I've never actually seen the problem with the F1 circuit from the beginning, it's only temporarily plus it's one weekend a year, so it wouldn't cause a lot of noise problems, plus the land will always be reserved for the third park, even with the circuit there. Plus the third park would maybe get an advantage by this, the resort would have a much bigger budget for the park since it's a while away, if the resort would've built it round 2012 they could risk having the WDS factor all over again.
Quote from: "Kristof"Quote from: "Nicholas-c"Still don't understand what the problem with having an F1 circuit is, F1 and GP1 is hosted over 1 weekend, that's the main noise "issues" gone, as for other events they are alot quieter than F1 and wont interrupt day-to-day running of the parcs, As for the issues of going on the possible site for a 3rd park, surely, if this was the site why would dlrp allow someone to build an F1 track on their land ? ;)
I'm actually starting to get a bit worried regarding the third theme park. Most of us think DLRP has to build another park, but that's not really the case. According to the agreement with the French government, they have to build an "attraction" (not as in a theme park ride, but something that pulls in a certain amount of guests). If DLRP and the French State consider the F1 circuit as that attraction, we might not see a third theme park for a long long time. But that's just my thought. :?
:wink:
Quote from: "ford prefect"A circuit needs far more than F1 to be profitable.
My local circuit is Silverstone which has so far hosted the following big events this year:
FIA GT (super cars such as Ferrari, Maserati, Lamboghini etc)
Le Mans Series (as in the 24 hour race sports cars)
Britcar 24 hour race
Superbikes (motorbike racing)
Formula 1
Formula 3
Touring Cars
Drifting
Historic meetings.
Note that pretax profits (excluding F1) was approx 8million pounds. When F1 is factored in Silverstone made a £100000 loss.
A high profile circuit like one at DLP would attract MotoGp, A1GP, possibly even Stock Cars or IRL.
The circuit would be very busy.
I have been looking into this a little more, and I must admit that things a looking a little more likely:
http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=co ... Itemid=219 (http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7587&Itemid=219%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
Investigation on the Lagardere Group shows that they have removed 5 pages with relevance to F1.
As you say, it looks like FFSA will make their decision on 15th October they will then recommend to Ecclestone.
I have such mixed feelings, I love DLP and motorsport is another passion. I don't want my time at DLP to be ruined by an expanse of concrete and tarmac, however I will be amongst the first to buy my tickets.
Quote from: "ford prefect"I have such mixed feelings, I love DLP and motorsport is another passion. I don't want my time at DLP to be ruined by an expanse of concrete and tarmac, however I will be amongst the first to buy my tickets.
Well I understand the concerns, but I don't think its going to ruin the place. Rue R. Schuman will only be out of action for at the very least a week and the rest will be out of sight. I'd probably have more reservations of visual impact if they were doing some sort of Ceaser's Palace on the Parc Disneyland lot. :wink:
And, you know, now you mentioned tickets, I think I would actually consider attending the event as well.
Why not, my two loves in one place? Bliss! :D/
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"And, you know, now you mentioned tickets, I think I would actually consider attending the event as well.
Why not, my two loves in one place? Bliss! :D/
Spend the afternoon watching the F1 followed by a nice day in the parc's ? sounds [strike:3k99b1ea]like very long queues[/strike:3k99b1ea] good to me :D
^Sure! :D
Or for the really daring (who book up early) a whole day in the probably deserted park on the Sunday! :wink:
I think it will be at least 8 weeks of disruption. I have seen the work that goes into preperation at Silverstone. The circuit shuts down for three weeks bfore the event and nothing happens for 2 weeks after as they are clearing up, and that is for a permanent venue.
The Avenue R Schuman will be disrupted for quite some time.
Incidently, you should read what F1 fans think of the proposed design
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110313 (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110313%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
Quote from: "ford prefect"Incidently, you should read what F1 fans think of the proposed design
http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110313 (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110313%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
That's quite funny actually :lol: !! It seems they want it as much as we do....
I have to say, if this goes ahead it will REALLY tick me off. :evil:
I never thought the track would take up that much space. It seems to cut into all of DLRP's expansion area, where new hotels, new parks, and new entertainment will be. I never knew it would be so close to the hotels as well. Some people are going to have awful views.
It's will be terrible for people in the resort at the time of the races too. I like Lake Disney because it's quiet and peaceful. But with the creation of this circuit, that goes out the window. It would really annoy me having to hear the cars going round the track when I'm trying to relax.
And all of this just for one race a year!
Quote from: "RnRCj"It's will be terrible for people in the resort at the time of the races too. I like Lake Disney because it's quiet and peaceful. But with the creation of this circuit, that goes out the window. It would really annoy me having to hear the cars going round the track when I'm trying to relax.
And all of this just for one race a year!
But that's just the point, it will be
once a year not 365 - Lake Disney will be just as peaceful and quiet at other times during the year.
And wouldn't it be a clever idea to not schedule your holiday on race weekend if you don't want to be disturbed?
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"Quote from: "RnRCj"It's will be terrible for people in the resort at the time of the races too. I like Lake Disney because it's quiet and peaceful. But with the creation of this circuit, that goes out the window. It would really annoy me having to hear the cars going round the track when I'm trying to relax.
And all of this just for one race a year!
But that's just the point, it will be once a year not 365 - Lake Disney will be just as peaceful and quiet at other times during the year.
And wouldn't it be a clever idea to not schedule your holiday on race weekend if you don't want to be disturbed?
You seriously think there going to build this track and have just 1 race a year.... :roll:
I am fully against it, how can people look at that design and say theres nothing wrong with it. Another thing what is the point and what will they achieve from having it there :?
Isnt there lots of other areas in france where it could be placed?
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"Quote from: "RnRCj"It's will be terrible for people in the resort at the time of the races too. I like Lake Disney because it's quiet and peaceful. But with the creation of this circuit, that goes out the window. It would really annoy me having to hear the cars going round the track when I'm trying to relax.
And all of this just for one race a year!
But that's just the point, it will be once a year not 365 - Lake Disney will be just as peaceful and quiet at other times during the year.
Note that I did say: "It will be terrible for people in the resort
at the time of the races". And like Owain says, they're not just going to leave an empty race track there all year. :roll:
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"And wouldn't it be a clever idea to not schedule your holiday on race weekend if you don't want to be disturbed?
I wouldn't do that, but there are thousands of people that will. I feel very sorry for them. [-o<
Quote from: "RnRCj"I have to say, if this goes ahead it will REALLY tick me off. :evil:
I never thought the track would take up that much space. It seems to cut into all of DLRP's expansion area, where new hotels, new parks, and new entertainment will be. I never knew it would be so close to the hotels as well. Some people are going to have awful views.
It's will be terrible for people in the resort at the time of the races too. I like Lake Disney because it's quiet and peaceful. But with the creation of this circuit, that goes out the window. It would really annoy me having to hear the cars going round the track when I'm trying to relax.
And all of this just for one race a year!
Yes, well said.
Quote from: "Owain"You seriously think there going to build this track and have just 1 race a year.... :roll:
No, but the other posted refered to it being "once a year".
I'm referring to the French Grand Prix. Of course it makes more sense to have multiple events, but the Grand Prix is the biggest of them all.
Quote from: "Owain"I am fully against it, how can people look at that design and say theres nothing wrong with it. Another thing what is the point and what will they achieve from having it there :?
Isnt there lots of other areas in france where it could be placed?
Umm.. free advertising?
Just ask the Singapore Tourism Board how its turned out for them. They themselves admit the race was a marketing exercise.
And, yes there are other places, but Bernie says he no longer wants to go to Nevers-Magny Cours. Circuit Le Mans say the don't want the race either. Dijon Prenois is not up to standard and Circuit Paul Ricard does not have enough facilities for spectators.
Sorry but the question is: Is it good advertising for Disney and Disney Parks/Disney Holidays. And that seems to be a clear nooo nooo noooo. They had to fight very hard to get it´s place as enviroment friendly, big resort where you can enjoy a magical landscaping, a magic kingdom, wonderful themed hotels and a second gate that gets better and better in the last year.
F1 could fill the hotels for ONE week maybe. But with the expectation of not just one event a year, filled ways around the resort (and not because someone will go to the theme parks), noise and pollution it could be a paradise for motor race fans...but the rest of the wonderful Disney Families (like the one who was the 200.000.000 guests of course) don´t wanna have a racing circuit near their hotels with big tarmac facilities all around(where the little ones could faster come under the wheels than falling in lake disney)
It´s simply the oposite of a "green" magical disney day. The advertise is: 2 Disney theme parks, disney hotels, a quiet friendly ambience and the rich-men town of val d´europe (for the rich-men) not a racing circuit. It simply doesn´t fit into the resorts universe. And it simply doesn´t fit in the circle.
If it´s such a important thing why not use one of the properties outsite of the circle. They could have their transportation enviroment and Disney could stay what it is: A great holiday destination and not a racing circuit host.
QuoteI'm referring to the French Grand Prix. Of course it makes more sense to have multiple events, but the Grand Prix is the biggest of them all.
That sounds simply horrible. Like I said before I would get my money back if I will have any interference with just ONE of this events. I wanna have holiday time. And I pay for Disney. Not to see the preperations of events or the events themself (that´s what I see at work. Work is not holiday.)
With 90 % occupied rooms I really ask myself why should they need this? They won´t have this Singapore effect.
Are you implying that a child could run onto the track? Puh-lease - this isn't the Istanbul Ottodrom, they will have everything guarded.
And I honestly can't be bothered to argue the point any more.
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"Just ask the Singapore Tourism Board how its turned out for them. They themselves admit the race was a marketing exercise.
That's the bit that excites me about having a F1 circuit on property: public awareness. The singapore race was featured in pretty much every news programme and newspaper all over Europe. Hundreds of millions of people heard about the night race at Singapore.
I think F1 would bring DLRP more into people's minds.
(Though I'm dreading the whole thing and would probably never visit during F1 season.)
The one thing that could bring this plan to fall are the neighbours - and they've got every right to be upset about it. So, stop signing any stupid "fan petitions" that maybe will get a dry laugh out of the decisions makers' mouths - and start signing the neighbours' petitions if you want to stop F1 coming to DLRP.
But in regards to that 3rd theme park, F1 may be actually the best thing that could happen to DLRP:
Disney has to develop the land before the year 2017. If not, other developers might come in. And lets be honest: there's a snowball's chance in hell that Disney will have a third gate up and running by 2017. So, having a place holder that will bring tons of business to the site, will bring even more publicity and which can be dismantled after, lets say, ten to fifteen years to make room for new developments.
Quote from: "Riebi"Sorry but the question is: Is it good advertising for Disney and Disney Parks/Disney Holidays. And that seems to be a clear nooo nooo noooo. They had to fight very hard to get it´s place as enviroment friendly, big resort where you can enjoy a magical landscaping, a magic kingdom, wonderful themed hotels and a second gate that gets better and better in the last year.
When did Disney every market itself as "environment friendly"?? They know better than to try to give themselves the "green stamp" - this could easily blow up in their faces. (Fireworks, anyone?)
A F1 circuit would definitely reposition the resort - but not necessarily in a bad light: it could present DLRP as a varied vacation resort with tons of things to do ... besides visiting that "amusement park with that pink castle and Mickey Mouse". (If done right.)
Quote from: "ford prefect"From a track design point of view it is not brilliant, making too much use of the existing public roads.
I fail to understand why they need to use the public roads, since they are not really wide enough and would requiire the construction of fairly hefty catch fencing and armco.
Not sure if they're actually using public roads - looks more like the circuit would run right next to it...
Quote from: "experiment627"Quote from: "Riebi"Sorry but the question is: Is it good advertising for Disney and Disney Parks/Disney Holidays. And that seems to be a clear nooo nooo noooo. They had to fight very hard to get it´s place as enviroment friendly, big resort where you can enjoy a magical landscaping, a magic kingdom, wonderful themed hotels and a second gate that gets better and better in the last year.
When did Disney every market itself as "environment friendly"?? They know better than to try to give themselves the "green stamp" - this could easily blow up in their faces. (Fireworks, anyone?)
For example here :?: :!:
//http://corporate.disneylandparis.com/corporate-responsibility/environmental-care/index.xhtml
and at every what-disney-magic-could-do release :?: They say quiet often that they are such an enviroment friendly place to be honest :lol:
QuoteA F1 circuit would definitely reposition the resort - but necessarily in a bad light: it could present DLRP as a varied vacation resort with tons of things to do ... besides visiting that "amusement park with that pink castle and Mickey Mouse". (If done right.)
Exactly
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"Are you implying that a child could run onto the track? Puh-lease - this isn't the Istanbul Ottodrom, they will have everything guarded.
And I honestly can't be bothered to argue the point any more.
Maybe a bit to far away but PR is about things that families think about not about the security standard. I don´t think a child falled into lake disney yet and I don´t think that someone would died on that motorway (unless a racing car would hit the grandstand then we will have some).
But I think there will be families which don´t wanna see the necessity to make their holidays with their lil ones near a racing circuit as some others don´t like to see their child playing next to the street. It´s a PR thing not something that would really happen. :wink:
Again: I´m not against F1 or a racing circuit. I´m against a racing circuit next to the hotel zone inside the DLRP circle-route. Place it 5 km away and it will be ok. They place some calm homeless person with a 2km security distance but a loud noise circuit should be inside the magic.
Quote from: Hathaway BrowneBut that's just the point, it will be once a year not 365 - Lake Disney will be just as peaceful and quiet at other times during the year.
quote]
If they, God forbid, build this track, its not gonna be used once a year. Formula 1 is the big boy as far as TV revenue and advertising go, but the track isn't gonna lie dormant. I wouldn't be surpirsed if they didn't try to get other races organisations their too : A1, Moto GP, Formula 3000, or any of the other specific car manufacturer race meetings ( Audi racing, Porsche etc. )
They're not building this track cause they think holiday-makers want to see F1, they're building it make money so the more race meetings the better the returns
Just say NON !!!!!
My wife just made a valid point: The Corona European Jetski Championship used to happen every year on Lake Disney.
This hardly balences out with the concept of a year round placid lake.
If this a fully functionning circuit then I expect their to be approx 10 to 12 events a year.
Please note that not all motorsport reaches the noise level of F1. Touring cars and motorbikes are not significantly louder than normal road cars, whilst races are louder than street traffic the location of the circuit means that noise would not affect the parks.
Hotel guests would exerience noise.
The timescale of most race weekends is Saturday and Sunday: track activity starts at 10ish and runs to 5.30 with an hour for lunch. That would be the extent of noise pollution.
Hathaway Browne: I agree with most of your text, and I think we need to ensure that us lot as DLP fans enjoy our community and our holidays, however such events look to be beyond our control.
This means we either have to accept that DLP changes or we don't go to the resort at all.
For the sake of argument let us assume that the circuit is built and it becomes a full season long race venue.
The season starts in April and runs through until October. During this period there will be a mix of touring cars, sports cars, bikes, F1 and single seaters
What disruption will this cause to us as holidaymakers?
Park activity and Village activity will be unchanged (it just might be busier)
Hotels maybe busier and the view from the hotels maybe less grassland and more grandstands.
There will be noise at the weekends, however i have sat in the pub in silverstone village whilst there are F1 cars touring the circuit. I could only just hear the cars. The pub is approx the same distance from the circuit as the parks would be from this proposition. Therefore, most racing will have little impact.
Guest safety: When ever you buy a ticket for a motorsport event there is a caveat stating that motorsport is dangerous and that you attend at your own risk.
Nobody will be forced to go and those that do must accept any minmal risk.
I can assure you that the circuit would not be visible to any hotel room. Were it to be visible those rooms would be the most popular in the hotel.
I am less convinced that it won't happen, however we do need to control our vitriol.
deleted dreaded double post :D
Quote from: "Riebi"For example here :?: :!:
//http://corporate.disneylandparis.com/corporate-responsibility/environmental-care/index.xhtml
and at every what-disney-magic-could-do release :?: They say quiet often that they are such an enviroment friendly place to be honest :lol:
Don't confuse corporate talk with public image. Sure, they rather show you pictures of nice green trees than of the dumpsters behind Main Street filled with paper cups and plastic cutlery from Casey's Corner.
So, when was there ever an add (print, tv, internet) that said: "visit Disneyland Resort Paris, the greenest place on Earth"?
QuoteQuoteA F1 circuit would definitely reposition the resort - but necessarily in a bad light: it could present DLRP as a varied vacation resort with tons of things to do ... besides visiting that "amusement park with that pink castle and Mickey Mouse". (If done right.)
Exactly
Sorry, meant to say
not necessarily in a bad light...
Well, alot of mixed feelings, but lets think Silverstone (Biggest circuit in UK) has 9 events half of which are exclusive to them, but lets think about this logically, if DLRP want their guests to be happy they wont allow the FIA/F1 teams use it middle of july/august when its peak season.
Besides, F1 Really isn't that loud, you would not be able to hear it from the parc's and 99% of races start at mid-day, by then your awake and ready to roll!
What if Disney organised races for the visitors, like an Autopia with the metal railing in the middle of the road. Would that be appealing ? You can already take time out and go golfing, so why not try your hand at at a few laps ?
Walt Disney World Richard Petty circuit offers laps as does almost all circuits, so why not?
I don't know many drivers who wouldn't love to play on a racetrack in a well made sports car if the price was right and they had the opportunity.
So we have another source of income for the resort.
I have been sleeping on this idea and would like to comment generally:
We have had the football school, we have had the jet ski, we get a village and hotels full of paintballers, the stages were stuffed full of rock n rollers earlier this month.
Last time I was in the park I couldn't walk up Liberty Arcade because it was full of Majorettes.
I was in the Village during the world cup and couldn't move for people enjoying the atmosphere.
The atmosphere will be fab (if this happens) and you will find that it will create its own festival like the world cup, paintball, jetski, magic music days, rock n roll, country, carnival etc.
Try it, you might like it.
Disney is a multifacetted experience.
Perhaps we should welcome Walt Disney's comment "...keep moving forward..." and embrace his sentiment that the Disney Parks should never be completed. Walt was a lover of innovention and technology and loved his cars and trains. In many ways because of the constant desire to improve and refine and innovate, motorsport is rather similar to Disney.
It is an entertainment.
That's fine FP, but I would rather have a 3rd park. One that could be enjoyed by all, 365 days a year!!!! If they wanted to make the ring road a F1 track, fine. My complaint is the thought of losing land that could hold another park.
That's fine FP, but I would rather have a 3rd park. One that could be enjoyed by all, 365 days a year!!!! If they wanted to make the ring road a F1 track, fine. My complaint is the thought of losing land that could hold another park.
^Dave I do agree with you on the land for the Third Gate issue. That is my only reservation on this.
Quote from: "Nicholas-c"Well, alot of mixed feelings, but lets think Silverstone (Biggest circuit in UK) has 9 events half of which are exclusive to them, but lets think about this logically, if DLRP want their guests to be happy they wont allow the FIA/F1 teams use it middle of july/august when its peak season.
Well that's probably true, there will be reservations on having the race on the traditional first week in July slot. However, its a two way street and the summer is the time to have the race. I'm sure a compromise will be reached.
Quote from: "Nicholas-c"Besides, F1 Really isn't that loud, you would not be able to hear it from the parc's and 99% of races start at mid-day, by then your awake and ready to roll!
There's a chance you will hear it in the park, but its not going to be as loud as people expect.
I have spent many a year walking through Silverstone Village on the way to the circuit race morning and, yes you can hear the cars, but its no louder than normal road traffic noise.
Quote from: "ford prefect"Walt Disney World Richard Petty circuit offers laps as does almost all circuits, so why not?
I don't know many drivers who wouldn't love to play on a racetrack in a well made sports car if the price was right and they had the opportunity.
So we have another source of income for the resort.
Bingo.
Quote from: "ford prefect"I have been sleeping on this idea and would like to comment generally:
We have had the football school, we have had the jet ski, we get a village and hotels full of paintballers, the stages were stuffed full of rock n rollers earlier this month.
Last time I was in the park I couldn't walk up Liberty Arcade because it was full of Majorettes.
I was in the Village during the world cup and couldn't move for people enjoying the atmosphere.
No doubt the NIMBY's are of the same opinion of these events, so don't be surprised that you get shot down on this one.
To me though, you're absolutely right. There are many events throughout the year(s) that have caused minor disruption. So F1 is no different.
Quote from: "ford prefect"The atmosphere will be fab (if this happens) and you will find that it will create its own festival like the world cup, paintball, jetski, magic music days, rock n roll, country, carnival etc.
Try it, you might like it.
Disney is a multifacetted experience.
Perhaps we should welcome Walt Disney's comment "...keep moving forward..." and embrace his sentiment that the Disney Parks should never be completed. Walt was a lover of innovention and technology and loved his cars and trains. In many ways because of the constant desire to improve and refine and innovate, motorsport is rather similar to Disney.
It is an entertainment.
=D> =D>
Nail. Hit. On. Head.
Davewasbaloo, I agree. If I had a full and free option I would much rather have a third gate.
In August my wife and I walked from Sante Fe to Explorers and were discussing the empty fields around and exactly where we would put a circuit and I'm glad to see that we thought the same as the planners.
On the left hand side, stretching from Sante fe to beyond explorers hotel is a very large empty plot of land. Now, I am sure that this has been earmarked for some form of development and perhaps the third park os not dead yet, merely resting.
This assumes that the circuit will get the go ahead which is by no means certain.
Further: I don't believe that in the current economic climate Eurodisney SCA will be able to gather the required funds to build a park.
I would rather a third park but I it has been rumoured for years with little action and as Kristof said, Disney has to provide an attraction.
There is little we can do to influence any decisions. But personally I welcome all comers and wolud be quite happy if they built anything that provides revenue and atmosphere, entertainment and new experiences.
QuoteWell, alot of mixed feelings, but lets think Silverstone (Biggest circuit in UK) has 9 events half of which are exclusive to them, but lets think about this logically, if DLRP want their guests to be happy they wont allow the FIA/F1 teams use it middle of july/august when its peak season.
As I said earlier the french grandprix Usually takes place in June.
The only events that are exclusive to Silverstone are:
The Silverstone Classic
The Walter Hayes Trophy
Britcar 24 Hours.
Please note that Silverstone has a lot more events
http://www.silverstone.co.uk/php/rm_raceCalenders.html (http://www.silverstone.co.uk/php/rm_raceCalenders.html%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
Glad to hear some positivity on this. Too much "its the end of the world" talk IMO.
Are there any other location options for either a third park or this circuit so we could get the best of both worlds?
Oh I saw some plans to put the Circuit at other places around the resort. One place was next to Davy Crocket. Maybe they had there some (similar) problems cause of the village nature project with Pierre et Vacances (and pierre et vacances was a stronger partner). There was serveral places for the circuit. I think that place direct next to the train station, the hotels and lake disney would be the most agreeable for bernie cause he can drive in by plane, TGV or car directly and must not move his ageing body much. What a stress. He´s really old you must know. He need to have it comfortable. :mrgreen:
I´m not totally world-end-like against a circuit near DLRP. But putting this thing on this place isn´t a high quality solution for the holiday expierences. Take another location and I will be happy. But I won´t life with a window-view that shows me just a big circuit. I would change my room. And by the way: Normal motor noise inside the park would bother me. I remembered well how interrupting the "normal motor noise" of the normal street near the Studios tram tour route is (just example). You get totally out of your park expierence if some cars running there next to you. It´s Disney. It has to be perfect in any way (that was also something Walt would like to have :wink: ). But let them make the music louder and forgett a 3. theme park.
(Keep moving forward...maybe also an erotic expo could be a nice attraction (brings also lot of people) but maybe a simple water park could also be a "3. attraction" and fits more into a Disney Resort. The question is not would the F1 fans buy a ticket. They will buy it everywhere they place it, I can tell you. The question is would a Disney Fan buy a Theme park ticket for a theme park next to a racing circuit)
But I don´t think that we will have any influence on this.
Quote from: "Riebi"Oh I saw some plans to put the Circuit at other places around the resort. One place was next to Davy Crocket. Maybe they had there some (similar) problems cause of the village nature project with Pierre et Vacances (and pierre et vacances was a stronger partner). There was serveral places for the circuit. I think that place direct next to the train station, the hotels and lake disney would be the most agreeable for bernie cause he can drive in by plane, TGV or car directly and must not move his ageing body much. What a stress. He´s really old you must know. He need to have it comfortable. :mrgreen:
.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
See, now a circuit south of the motorway near DCR would be very cool indeed. I do wonder what has happened with the Nature Resort Feasability study.
Glad to hear we're getting somewhere now! :) I don't think "Circuit Davy Crockett" would be such a bad thing either, and then we would have best of both worlds.
Maybe they could put some sort of trams ystem down to the DCR to tie it in with the main resort (and track).
Kungaloosh!
a circuit would be great, if:
we could rent for an amount of 20 euro's a, let's say reasonably priced car (a freaking lacetti) and try it on the circuit for an hour, wit the support of a unknown [strike:30zp0ns4]caring[/strike:30zp0ns4] racing pilot who is wearing a white jumpsuit and mirror-glass helmet. :lol:
Quote from: "ford prefect"Kungaloosh!
:lol: never heard but cool word! :lol:
The problem is: The plan seems to be a circuit directly next to the hotels (nearly scraping the hotel lobby of NPBC) and on the ground of the 3. theme park and two hotels. The discussion is about this place and why they haven´t choose another. We know they are there.
All the other question (are the F1 fans just noise ugly rednecks, how many races a year, is Disney and F1 compatible ....) are secondarily at the moment. And I think we won´t get a solution in that questions cause everybody has it´s own opinion in F1.
Quote from: "Riebi"Quote from: "ford prefect"Kungaloosh!
:lol: never heard but cool word! :lol: .
A salute to Hathaway Browne. Kungaloosh is the salute of the Adventurers' Club (now closed down) of Pleasure Island in Walt Disney World.
As for F1 fans being noise ugly rednecks ( :lol: ) I think everyone will have their own opinions. And I'm not noisy. :lol:
Duthoy: I am sure The Stig will be there! At least one of them will be anyway.
Quote from: "ford prefect"Kungaloosh!
:lol: Kungaloosh!!
Hoopla!
-----
Track rental (especially if they used Rue Schuman only on race weekends) would make sense.
Maybe one of the Moteurs Corsas? ;)
Quote from: "Riebi"The problem is: The plan seems to be a circuit directly next to the hotels (nearly scraping the hotel lobby of NPBC) and on the ground of the 3. theme park and two hotels. The discussion is about this place and why they haven´t choose another. We know they are there.
I'm glad the article also reads "Attention ! il ne s'agira pas du choix définitif qui devrait selon toute vraisemblance intervenir d'ici la fin de l'année... ", so the choice of location isn't definitive yet. Hopefully they'll realise that this location is way to close to the hotels.
Quote from: "Riebi"The problem is: The plan seems to be a circuit directly next to the hotels (nearly scraping the hotel lobby of NPBC) and on the ground of the 3. theme park and two hotels. The discussion is about this place and why they haven´t choose another. We know they are there.
That's a rediculous statement. The track is no where near the NPBC lobby.
Quote from: "Riebi"All the other question (are the F1 fans just noise ugly rednecks, how many races a year, is Disney and F1 compatible ....) are secondarily at the moment. And I think we won´t get a solution in that questions cause everybody has it´s own opinion in F1.
Way to tar everyone with the same brush. F1 fans are not "ugly nosiy rednecks".
Quote from: "Remco K."Quote from: "Riebi"The problem is: The plan seems to be a circuit directly next to the hotels (nearly scraping the hotel lobby of NPBC) and on the ground of the 3. theme park and two hotels. The discussion is about this place and why they haven´t choose another. We know they are there.
I'm glad the article also reads "Attention ! il ne s'agira pas du choix définitif qui devrait selon toute vraisemblance intervenir d'ici la fin de l'année... ", so the choice of location isn't definitive yet. Hopefully they'll realise that this location is way to close to the hotels.
Yes, I'm happy it says that too. As after all this is not a certainty. Not only could the FFSA say "non", but also FOM/FIA. They could deem it to be too close to the hotels.
They could also say, nice, but we'll still go elsewhere.
Sorry for trying to get some humour back to this world-end topic. Seems that for some it could be the world-end if the circuit don´t come :P :lol:
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"That's a rediculous statement.
Like to keep the guys smiling.
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"Way to tar everyone with the same brush. F1 fans are not "ugly nosiy rednecks".
Huuuwaaahuuuuu....I don´t think that! That was just an abstract about the discussion points in this topic. Would never say my best friends are noisy ugly rednecks. Must know I´m in the mittle of F1 fans (and yes I call them all friends!) After thinking about it: Some of them yes! But I love them :mrgreen: and they love to be noisy ugly rednecks. So calm down! That´s the magicforum. No place to beeing brusque :lol:
Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. Its way to easy to misread tone of statements on forums, (ie when there's intended humour)
No problem! Seems to be a hot topic!
This definately a hot topic with strong views. I am glad we are only debating Disney and Motorsport and nothing trivial and meaningless like the world economy, peace in the middle east and the presidential elections in the USA.
:wink:
Just a thought, couldn't dlrp use the circuit for a go-kart course or something when not in use of official events ?
@ Hathaway Browne : Moving a couple other dates around you could fit it in on dlrp off season with ease ;)
I feel quite sad that this is a project that Eurodisney SCA wants to push forwards when their are many projects that are at a stage in their development that all it needs is the final financial approval for the bothans (for the uniniciated this is a term for Imagineers) in Both Paris and California to break ground. We are at a crossroads if we Invest now in our existing infrastructure and expand this infrastructure we have got a bright future ahead of us if not look towards big cutbacks in entertainment budgets as Guest numbers go down it could be worse than 2003-2006 where we saw a big drop of in overall guests when investment in new facilities dried up. Yes a F1 race may be good in filling Hotel rooms if placed in a low occupancy period of the year like September, January, Febuary, March but what about the Polution, Noise and other things that will have to come along with this I am not anti F1 I enjoy motor racing but I can think their could be many other areas in France where this could go without effecting resort operations.
Quote from: "Nicholas-c"Just a thought, couldn't dlrp use the circuit for a go-kart course or something when not in use of official events ?
@ Hathaway Browne : Moving a couple other dates around you could fit it in on dlrp off season with ease ;)
International Motorsport Events Calendars are set by the Federation Internationale d'Automobile. The individual circuit owners have the dates imposed on them.
I repeat my previous post: The French Grand Prix usually takes place in June.
The circuit will be at least 3 miles long which makes go karting impractical.
Quote from: "Nicholas-c"Just a thought, couldn't dlrp use the circuit for a go-kart course or something when not in use of official events ?
Yes, but as FordPrefect says, it'll be too long. It would be much better suited to Driving Experiences. Maybe they could do something like the Petty thing but with Touring Cars.
Quote from: "phantom247"I feel quite sad that this is a project that Eurodisney SCA wants to push forwards when their are many projects that are at a stage in their development that all it needs is the final financial approval for the bothans (for the uniniciated this is a term for Imagineers) in Both Paris and California to break ground. We are at a crossroads if we Invest now in our existing infrastructure and expand this infrastructure we have got a bright future ahead of us if not look towards big cutbacks in entertainment budgets as Guest numbers go down it could be worse than 2003-2006 where we saw a big drop of in overall guests when investment in new facilities dried up. Yes a F1 race may be good in filling Hotel rooms if placed in a low occupancy period of the year like September, January, Febuary, March but what about the Polution, Noise and other things that will have to come along with this I am not anti F1 I enjoy motor racing but I can think their could be many other areas in France where this could go without effecting resort operations.
"Bothans" are only a term for "insiders" used by one blogger.
California and Paris are run separately and therefore they do not approve a project for DCA and issue a cut back in WDS.
Guest numbers are down because the global economy is in the toilet.
It is also possible that this track could be paid for separately to in-park additions.
The French GP will not be held in September, let alone January/February/March - the weather is one main reason. (As Ford Prefect has already stated twice, the race is traditionally June or at the very least the first weekend in July).
I'll concede on the noise, but "pollution" ? :roll: F1 cars are not some diesel burning Bedford van from 1962. They do not smell, nor send plumes of thick smoke into the air. The Resort is not going to end up looking like London during the Industrial Revolution.
An interesting article:http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gc5ghfCm42dU8hcgH00re0Xi0D9Q
F1 happily states that the car emmisions are insignificant, it is the rest of the circus that causes the hassle and pollution.
Before every one leaps at me and says AHA, TOLD YOU!!! I would like to say that the carbon footprint would be the same whether it was at DLP or elsewhere.
Overall there would not be any significant change in CO2 emmission in or around Disney, since all of us travelling to DLP create a fairly hefty dollop of carbon dioxide every time we go.
I am not sure the pollution argument will wash either.
The argument is essentially noise and "I don't want to see a circuit where there should be a third gate" and "I don't want to see a circuit from my hotel".
I respect all of those views.
QuoteGuest numbers are down because the global economy is in the toilet.
hmm interessting, and why they should build this race track? when the global economy is
at the end, why i should go to such an expansive race and to an expansive disney park?
i love to go to disney and i love to watch the races, bit i don´t think its the best idea at this place, why think a lot of you the guest numbers go up in the park when the race track is there? i don´t think so!!
but i have to say lets give it a try, they have to build it and disney have to make an contract with them, when the gust numbers in the parks go down, and because of that they lose money mr. ecclestone have to give them the millions :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: "lil-shawn"QuoteGuest numbers are down because the global economy is in the toilet.
hmm interessting, and why they should build this race track? when the global economy is at the end, why i should go to such an expansive race and to an expansive disney park?
Well that is a valid point, but same would apply to building a third gate at this stage.
I was referring to the previous posters excuse that "attendance is down". :)
Quote from: "lil-shawn"i love to go to disney and i love to watch the races, bit i don´t think its the best idea at this place, why think a lot of you the guest numbers go up in the park when the race track is there? i don´t think so!!
but i have to say lets give it a try, they have to build it and disney have to make an contract with them, when the gust numbers in the parks go down, and because of that they lose money mr. ecclestone have to give them the millions :lol: :lol: :lol:
Bernie won't be parting with his money on this one. He's too shrewd for that.
He knows how to play the game, and I doubt he'll be offering EuroDisney a full refund like he did the Singaporean Government if it didn't work out.
Quote from: "ford prefect"An interesting article:http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gc5ghfCm42dU8hcgH00re0Xi0D9Q
F1 happily states that the car emmisions are insignificant, it is the rest of the circus that causes the hassle and pollution.
Before every one leaps at me and says AHA, TOLD YOU!!! I would like to say that the carbon footprint would be the same whether it was at DLP or elsewhere.
Overall there would not be any significant change in CO2 emmission in or around Disney, since all of us travelling to DLP create a fairly hefty dollop of carbon dioxide every time we go.
I am not sure the pollution argument will wash either.
The argument is essentially noise and "I don't want to see a circuit where there should be a third gate" and "I don't want to see a circuit from my hotel".
I respect all of those views.
The pollution argument is not so much what it will add to global carbon emissions, it's what people fear it will do to the rather green resort area. People are having visions of smoke fumes, of smoggy air (which DOES happen in certain weather conditions when smoke can't go up), of hearing those engines all the way to Pirates of the Caribbean, of litter, asphalt and the lingering smell of gasoline. While some of that may be irrational (those cars are not from 1934 after all), it's pretty undeniable that the presence of a Formula 1 circuit will be felt — and heard, and smelled...
And come on, if this isn't smoke then what the hell is that bluish haze:
http://www.formula1grandprix.ca/race-start.jpg (http://www.formula1grandprix.ca/race-start.jpg%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
Quote from: "pussinboots"The pollution argument is not so much what it will add to global carbon emissions, it's what people fear it will do to the rather green resort area. People are having visions of smoke fumes, of smoggy air (which DOES happen in certain weather conditions when smoke can't go up), of hearing those engines all the way to Pirates of the Caribbean, of litter, asphalt and the lingering smell of gasoline. While some of that may be irrational (those cars are not from 1934 after all), it's pretty undeniable that the presence of a Formula 1 circuit will be felt — and heard, and smelled...
And come on, if this isn't smoke then what the hell is that bluish haze:
http://www.formula1grandprix.ca/race-start.jpg (http://www.formula1grandprix.ca/race-start.jpg%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
I have never been aware of a gasoline smell at a grand prix.
Although the cars use a variation on petrol (http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/under ... /5288.html (http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/5288.html%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;))
The smell at a grand prix comes from tyre smoke.
that bluish haze is tyre smoke caused by several thousand newton metres of torque being forced through four bits of rubber (who said torque is cheap).
If an engine lets go it creates a bit of a niff, but since that only happens to Ferrari (Sorry Javey) nobody really worries about it.
I can assure you that you will not smell a race outside of the immediate surroundings
Now, I accept your argument re littering and the pollution created by spectators.
That is beyond reproach, and I was disgusted to see rather a lot of litter left at in piles on the floor dispite the close proximity to a 3 large bins.
Oh, wait a minute, that was in The Videopolis in August.
Silverstone tends to be fairly clean and tidy, however considering over 150000 people are on site from 5am there is bound to be rubbish to be cleared.
Litter is a problem where ever people gather and is not the sole province of a motor race.
I have mentioned noise on several posts. I assure you, you will not be able to hear the cars in the parks. Anymore than I can hear them at Silverstone circuit when sitting in Silverstone Village.
The last thing I want to do is to upset anyone or offend anyone or disregard their views, however a lot of the views expressed have come from people who (it appears) have never experienced (and have no wish to experience) a motor race.
I respect that. I have no desire to watch a football match, yet I loved the atmospher in Disney Village during the World Cup.
Their is a danger of circular arguments unsupported by facts and based on perceived rumour or prejudicial ideas.
I repeat: There will be no impact to the parks except they may be busier. I accept your argument re people pollution, (litter etc) and that the presence of a motor race will be felt in the hotels and village as was Jetski, paint ball etc.
It won't won't be heard, smelt, or tasted though.
Hathway you may know a lot about F1 and motor sports in General and that Paris WDI works independently of California but comunication has been quite frantic across the pond untill the credit crunch hit hard and with June being peek season I feel their will not be enougth beds to go round because I feel that Most hotel projects will be put on hold untill we see how this credit crunch effects hotel occupancy overall.
Quote from: "phantom247"Hathway you may know a lot about F1 and motor sports in General and that Paris WDI works independently of California but comunication has been quite frantic across the pond untill the credit crunch hit hard and with June being peek season I feel their will not be enougth beds to go round because I feel that Most hotel projects will be put on hold untill we see how this credit crunch effects hotel occupancy overall.
With current occupancy at just over 90% beds are hard to come buy in the big 7 hotels.
Just to point out: Most motorsport fans will camp or use non disney hotels because they won't want to get in the way of the Disney-ness.
It is also part of the tradition of a grand prix to sit and chill outside of your tent or listen to a couple of bands in the beer tent. There will be plenty of accommodation to go round, you are forgetting the overall capacity of nearby hoteliers who will attract the teams and the likes of campinile and formule 1 (sic) and etap all of which are morelikely to be used by any non camping fans.
Quote from: "phantom247"Hathway you may know a lot about F1 and motor sports in General and that Paris WDI works independently of California but comunication has been quite frantic across the pond untill the credit crunch hit hard and with June being peek season I feel their will not be enougth beds to go round because I feel that Most hotel projects will be put on hold untill we see how this credit crunch effects hotel occupancy overall.
Sorry you've lost me there. "communication has been frantic until the credit crunch?"
As for "available beds" the plan shows two 1,100 room hotels to be built. That should be enough for the majority of the Paddock. Plus there's always the partner hotels and failing that others a little further a field.
Quote from: "ford prefect"Quote from: "phantom247"Hathway you may know a lot about F1 and motor sports in General and that Paris WDI works independently of California but comunication has been quite frantic across the pond untill the credit crunch hit hard and with June being peek season I feel their will not be enougth beds to go round because I feel that Most hotel projects will be put on hold untill we see how this credit crunch effects hotel occupancy overall.
With current occupancy at just over 90% beds are hard to come buy in the big 7 hotels.
Just to point out: Most motorsport fans will camp or use non disney hotels because they won't want to get in the way of the Disney-ness.
It is also part of the tradition of a grand prix to sit and chill outside of your tent or listen to a couple of bands in the beer tent. There will be plenty of accommodation to go round, you are forgetting the overall capacity of nearby hoteliers who will attract the teams and the likes of campinile and formule 1 (sic) and etap all of which are morelikely to be used by any non camping fans.
That is also true. So there should be no issue of "lack of accommodation".
And if ED are clever they'll do a package that includes hotel, park passes and tickets to the race. :D/
Hathaway: Have you ever felt outnumbered!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: "ford prefect"Hathaway: Have you ever felt outnumbered!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ever since I stepped into this thread! (the thread title says it all!)
Glad someone's on my side! :D
Quote from: "ford prefect"I have never been aware of a gasoline smell at a grand prix.
Although the cars use a variation on petrol (http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/under ... /5288.html (http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/5288.html%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;))
The smell at a grand prix comes from tyre smoke.
that bluish haze is tyre smoke caused by several thousand newton metres of torque being forced through four bits of rubber (who said torque is cheap).
If an engine lets go it creates a bit of a niff, but since that only happens to Ferrari (Sorry Javey) nobody really worries about it.
I can assure you that you will not smell a race outside of the immediate surroundings
Now, I accept your argument re littering and the pollution created by spectators.
That is beyond reproach, and I was disgusted to see rather a lot of litter left at in piles on the floor dispite the close proximity to a 3 large bins.
Oh, wait a minute, that was in The Videopolis in August.
Silverstone tends to be fairly clean and tidy, however considering over 150000 people are on site from 5am there is bound to be rubbish to be cleared.
Litter is a problem where ever people gather and is not the sole province of a motor race.
I have mentioned noise on several posts. I assure you, you will not be able to hear the cars in the parks. Anymore than I can hear them at Silverstone circuit when sitting in Silverstone Village.
The last thing I want to do is to upset anyone or offend anyone or disregard their views, however a lot of the views expressed have come from people who (it appears) have never experienced (and have no wish to experience) a motor race.
I respect that. I have no desire to watch a football match, yet I loved the atmospher in Disney Village during the World Cup.
Their is a danger of circular arguments unsupported by facts and based on perceived rumour or prejudicial ideas.
I repeat: There will be no impact to the parks except they may be busier. I accept your argument re people pollution, (litter etc) and that the presence of a motor race will be felt in the hotels and village as was Jetski, paint ball etc.
It won't won't be heard, smelt, or tasted though.
Not even tasted? Hmm. I believe you, I really do (because you know about "torque" and until two days ago I thought Michael Schumacher was a Jewish comedian), although I'm still not quite sure about the noise thing. My father went to Monaco a few times and according to him, that noise was inescapable, "deafening" and audible all over town. He may have been exaggerating slightly, but that doesn't sound like something the windows of the Newport Bay Club are going to drown out.
Quote from: "pussinboots"Not even tasted? Hmm. I believe you, I really do (because you know about "torque" and until two days ago I thought Michael Schumacher was a Jewish comedian), although I'm still not quite sure about the noise thing. My father went to Monaco a few times and according to him, that noise was inescapable, "deafening" and audible all over town. He may have been exaggerating slightly, but that doesn't sound like something the windows of the Newport Bay Club are going to drown out.
Well the thing with Monaco is all that the sound reverberates off all the appartment buildings and the mountains which makes it sound worse. Plus if you sit at Virage du Tabac you have the track in front and behind you. :)
Quote from: "Riebi"//http://www.valeurope-san.fr/info/FR/Formule_1_%3A_enfin_les_plans/1670/060111
Can anyone access the plan now? All I'm getting is 404 Not Found.
After some days of abscence it seems not much new arguments and discussion steps has been taken :lol:
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"Quote from: "Riebi"//http://www.valeurope-san.fr/info/FR/Formule_1_%3A_enfin_les_plans/1670/060111
Can anyone access the plan now? All I'm getting is 404 Not Found.
It seems they have deleted it?!
Quote from: "ford prefect"The argument is essentially noise and "I don't want to see a circuit where there should be a third gate" and "I don't want to see a circuit from my hotel".
That seems to be the core of it all. Would we like to have it that way or are there any other possibilities. I thin yes we have others.
Quote from: "pussinboots"Quote from: "ford prefect"An interesting article:http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gc5ghfCm42dU8hcgH00re0Xi0D9Q
F1 happily states that the car emmisions are insignificant, it is the rest of the circus that causes the hassle and pollution.
Before every one leaps at me and says AHA, TOLD YOU!!! I would like to say that the carbon footprint would be the same whether it was at DLP or elsewhere.
Overall there would not be any significant change in CO2 emmission in or around Disney, since all of us travelling to DLP create a fairly hefty dollop of carbon dioxide every time we go.
I am not sure the pollution argument will wash either.
The argument is essentially noise and "I don't want to see a circuit where there should be a third gate" and "I don't want to see a circuit from my hotel".
I respect all of those views.
The pollution argument is not so much what it will add to global carbon emissions, it's what people fear it will do to the rather green resort area. People are having visions of smoke fumes, of smoggy air (which DOES happen in certain weather conditions when smoke can't go up), of hearing those engines all the way to Pirates of the Caribbean, of litter, asphalt and the lingering smell of gasoline. While some of that may be irrational (those cars are not from 1934 after all), it's pretty undeniable that the presence of a Formula 1 circuit will be felt — and heard, and smelled...
And come on, if this isn't smoke then what the hell is that bluish haze:
http://www.formula1grandprix.ca/race-start.jpg (http://www.formula1grandprix.ca/race-start.jpg%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
I don´t think we should see only the facts here. It´s more about a company/holiday desternation image. F1 doesn´t mean green plants and happy birds all over for the people. Even if you say: there´s noooo polution they would never really believe it.
Quote from: "ford prefect"Just to point out: Most motorsport fans will camp or use non disney hotels because they won't want to get in the way of the Disney-ness.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry it must be sooo hard for the fans to first destroy my holiday destination number one and then saying "uuuuuuh...there´s disney everywhere at Disneyland Resort Paris". How to complaining about the french people in france? Next step to do?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry but I´m on the floor cause of all that laughing running through my body :lol:
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"As for "available beds" the plan shows two 1,100 room hotels to be built. That should be enough for the majority of the Paddock. Plus there's always the partner hotels and failing that others a little further a field.
These two hotels on the plan shouldn´t be the next planned hotels. They were rumours to built first ONE hotel between Disney Village and NPBC next to the rumoured big confernce center that they wanna built some day (and there are also two places for future hotels at this area). I don´t think we should see this 2 hotels inside the circuit for the next years. They have also a possible location for a next partner hotel between the other partner hotels at the lake outside the ring (val de france).
I think they have take this hotels to the plan just to show how the resort development should be ONE glorious day far far far far far away. There´s also an article in a german theme park journal about a hotel they wanna built and that they don´t wanna give any clue about the theme.
So cancel the two hotels on the plan in your mind (like a third theme park if the circuit is coming) :wink: it´s more possible to see the next hotel at another location. Also cause I don´t think that they build a high themed disney hotel just for F1 one week a year.
Quote from: "Hathaway Browne"Quote from: "pussinboots"Not even tasted? Hmm. I believe you, I really do (because you know about "torque" and until two days ago I thought Michael Schumacher was a Jewish comedian), although I'm still not quite sure about the noise thing. My father went to Monaco a few times and according to him, that noise was inescapable, "deafening" and audible all over town. He may have been exaggerating slightly, but that doesn't sound like something the windows of the Newport Bay Club are going to drown out.
Well the thing with Monaco is all that the sound reverberates off all the appartment buildings and the mountains which makes it sound worse. Plus if you sit at Virage du Tabac you have the track in front and behind you. :)
Sorry to say this again but ANY noise of it isn´t acceptable. I´ve read a big report about a Disney manager who had the same in mind saying that Euro Disney wouldn´t have any motor noise at Main street USA or in other parts of the park. I just can say I even don´t wanna hear any noise at other parts of the resort but the most unbelievable thing would be to hear it inside the parks. Also just for ONE week or day. Disney has to be perfect. (you pay much money for it) We shouldn´t complaining about the not sooo perfect theme (now only in parts) of WDS and saying on the other hand "Why not a just a day or two or three....of noise, we don´t need every day a perfect disney day". Noise destroys also theming.
And for the plan: I thin Disneytheque has it online:
//http://www.disneytheque.com/index.php?/archives/95-Mickey-en-pole-position-pour-2010.html
Quote from: "Riebi"Quote from: "ford prefect"Just to point out: Most motorsport fans will camp or use non disney hotels because they won't want to get in the way of the Disney-ness.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry it must be sooo hard for the fans to first destroy my holiday destination number one and then saying "uuuuuuh...there´s disney everywhere at Disneyland Resort Paris". How to complaining about the french people in france? Next step to do?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry but I´m on the floor cause of all that laughing running through my body :lol:
Sorry, that's not what I meant!
If you read the posts on the F1 forums you will see that F1 fans don't want this anymore than we do!
AS far as most F1 fans are concerned the whole thing is a joke. They don't want to go to DLP so whilst they will go to the F1 race and payh a visit to DLP the fact that it is at Disneyland is irrelevant.
What F1 fans want is a mature sensible traditional racing circuit steeped in history.
Comments on the 10 tenths forum have so far included: "It looks a bit Mickey Mouse", "it looks a bit of a goofy layout and other items of wit!"
They certainly won't be complaining of Disney at DLP, they just won't really be bothered about it.
I would also say that Fans (I include my self in both camps here!) are not intent on ruining your holiday.
The fact that the circuit will be at DLP is the thing that is spoiling things for you and everyone else who doesn't like the idea.
Please don't blame me and my fellow F1 fans. We haven't asked for the circuit to be at DLP and I certainly won't be complaining about Disney. Or France. This would be the French Grand Prix, not the Disney Grand Prix.
I am sorry that this would spoil things, however please appreciate that I am on both sides of this argument.
I want a French Grand Prix, I would be happy if it was a t DLP because it would be by dream holiday: Go to the British Grand Prix, then a week in Disney followed by the French Grand Prix. Perfect!
However I also don't want the race at DLP because I love the resort. If a circuit was there I would use it on a regular basis because I love the sport, but I don't want it to ruin DLP.
Rock. Me. Hard place.
Just as a post note to the above:
In case you are wondering F1 management care not a jot for the fans of the sport, so our opinions would have as little merit to the powers that be as the opinions of everyone on this forum.
Sorry, that didn't make a lot of sense.
Basically what I mean is:
If it doesn't happen, great. If the powers that be want it to happen then it will! Nothing any of us thinks or says will change that.
Hm I don´t want blaming the F1 fans. Just bernie cause I don´t like him and I think he should also be a F1 fan...maybe...someday...on saturdays?
But I don´t see now any benefit for Disney if the F1 fans don´t like Disney much. The only people who would be happy seems to be a small intersection of disney and f1 lovers. Hope that´s enough for the happy holiday side of DLRP.
hay all
this was posted on http://www.valeurope-san.fr/info/FR/For ... 670/060111 (http://www.valeurope-san.fr/info/FR/Formule_1_%3A_enfin_les_plans/1670/060111%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
(used google translator)
5 mayors send a joint letter to François Fillon. October 15: The FFSA must conduct an inventory of applications from various potential sites. Warning! This is not the final choice that is likely to occur by the end of the year ...
i have seen this on the ITV F1 Website:
FFSA president Nicolas Deschaux told L'Equipe that the Paris Val d'Europe scheme at Disneyland was the front-runner as it was "the only project that could take place in 2010", but that all the options on the shortlist were "serious" possibilities in the longer term.
So looks like it may happen we will just see prob be some time next year (summer?) we will find out
However, the French Grand Prix next year has been cancelled due to "financial reasons".
The group that cancelled it was th FFSA.
The whole siuation is very wide open.
^It is still open, I agree.
And having seen the finalised plans for the Abu Dhabi Yas Marina track and its gimmicks, I realise that they are once again heading to another "event" track (like Monaco and Singapore), so the notion of a Disneyland Pairs GP doesn't seem that absurd.
Autosport Magazine (a weekly british motorsport magazine) discussed the matter. On the whole they seem to think it will happen.
And they're usually right on things. In fact I believe their exact words were "the only realistic chance for the future of the French GP".
Hi All
I've been looking at the plans again. Has anyone else noticed that the Hotel footprints are just a cut and paste from the Newport Bay including the car parks. So it looks like those plans are a long way from a final site plan.
Given the high occupance rate at Disney's Hotels 90%+ I can see why Disney would be interested. If someone else is prepared to help fund two new hotels then the idea has a lot to offer. I wonder if there is a way that the circuit could be combinded with some kind of park for the rest of the year between races.
Quote from: "ford prefect"Nothing any of us thinks or says will change that.
Sadly that seems to be life. We kid ourselves that we can change things or have some power, but sadly not a lot. What do I teach my kids?
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Quote from: "ford prefect"Nothing any of us thinks or says will change that.
Sadly that seems to be life. We kid ourselves that we can change things or have some power, but sadly not a lot. What do I teach my kids?
Teach them: You must be the next Bernie cause then you´re the king of the world. Get all you want. Even a F1 circuit next to a Disney hotel :mrgreen:
Disneytheque (//http://www.disneytheque.com) has a more detailed map of the circuit: //http://www.disneytheque.com/phototheque/disneyland_resort_paris/formule1/081106/001.jpg
very intresting place to have it aspecaly so close to some hotels!
The proximity of the hotels is not a problem.
It is coomon practice to have hotels near circuits, even venues that don't host F1! For example Brands Hatch Circuit in Kent has a Thistle Hotel right at the circuit gates.
These 2 hotels would equally attract the motorsport fans if they are appropriately themed.
Quote from: "ford prefect"These 2 hotels would equally attract the motorsport fans if they are appropriately themed.
But thats the thing ITS DISNEYLAND !, not motorsport land. Why should the hotels be appropriately themed to something they would prefer when fans like us want disney hotels ! :x
Quote from: "Owain"Quote from: "ford prefect"These 2 hotels would equally attract the motorsport fans if they are appropriately themed.
But thats the thing ITS DISNEYLAND !, not motorsport land. Why should the hotels be appropriately themed to something they would prefer when fans like us want disney hotels ! :x
By your argument the largely irrelevant themes of sport, music, movies and popular history of the last 50 years have no place in Disney.
Interesting, considering the popularity of the All Star music, Sports and Movies resorts, not to mention Pop Century Resort in Walt Disney World.
Disney is surely a triumph of imagination and accessability to all, what relevance does a New England Yacht Club have to Disney, or even New York?
My contention is that a motor racing facility is just as relevant to Disneyland Resort Paris as The Richard Petty Driving Experience and Superspeedway is to Walt Disney World.
If you examine a map of Walt Disney World you will see that the Ricard Petty Experience is on resort property a short drive from The Magic Kingdom.
As an aside, I (as a Disney fan and as a motorsport fan) would prefer theming to be a well considered and designed concept that maintains continuity in its location and not clash with the nearby themes.
Each theme sould be self contained, yet be attractive to the demographic it is designed for.
EG: I am not a great lover of Polynesia, so I would not choose to stay at WDW Polynesian Resort, however I do admire the imagineers' art so would happily pay it a visit.
I love all the themes in Paris, there is equally room at DLRP for more and different themes in Paris as there is in WDW.
We need to use our imaginations and open our minds to new thoughts and ideas.
Quote from: "ford prefect"The proximity of the hotels is not a problem.
It is coomon practice to have hotels near circuits, even venues that don't host F1! For example Brands Hatch Circuit in Kent has a Thistle Hotel right at the circuit gates.
These 2 hotels would equally attract the motorsport fans if they are appropriately themed.
Don't forget Monaco, or even better the new Abu Dhabi track on Yas Island, the hotel straddles the track at one point. 8)
Quote from: "Owain"Quote from: "ford prefect"Why should the hotels be appropriately themed to something they would prefer when fans like us want disney hotels ! :x
Who said that Disneyland was going to be turned into "motorsportland"? The rest of the resort will remain the same.
I don't doubt that if they are to be Disney Hotels then they will have an appropriate Disney theme - easiest solution is to have one of them with the Contemporary's modern style. [-o<
Or a Cars theme.....
Okay, most of you can relax now - the plans for a F1 circuit at DLRP have been dropped:
Quote Formule 1 : pas de circuit à Euro Disney
Aurélien Perol | 19.11.2008, 17h27 | Mise à jour : 18h49
La F1 chez Mickey, c'est fini : hier soir, le groupe Lagardère sports a annoncé dans un communiqué «ne pas donner suite au projet d'organiser en 2010 le Grand prix de France de Formule 1 dans la région de Val d'Europe.» Et d'expliquer que «malgré la qualité du dossier constitué par les deux partenaires privés (ndlr Lagardère et Eurodisney) et le soutien de Bernie Ecclestone, il s'est avéré impossible de trouver un accord avec les autres parties prenantes concernées. »
D'après une souce proche du dossier, Lagardère Sports n'aurait pas reçu un soutien financier espéré de la part de l'Etat, et n'a donc pas pu bouclé son plan de financement à temps pour l'organisation d'un grand prix en 2010. Côté Disney, on confirme la décision : «d'un commun accord, nous avons décidé de ne pas poursuivre l'étude du projet, car le business plan n'a pas pu être finalisé» indique un porte parole du géant des loisirs. Les difficultés financières rencontrées par Lagardère dans la reprise du grand prix de France étaient connues depuis plusieurs semaines.
Lors d'une réunion à Matignon le 5 novembre dernier, les représentants de Lagardère Sports avaient, sans succès, sollicité les élus de Val d'Europe pour combler un trou de financement de 15 millions d'euros. Hier dans la journée, la députée de la 8e circonscription de Seine-et-Marne Chantal Brunel a lancé un «appel de la dernière chance» aux maires du secteur afin de «sauver le Grand prix de France». Une demande à nouveau rejetée par les élus.
(Source: Le Parisien (//http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/formule-1-pas-de-circuit-a-euro-disney-19-11-2008-314843.php))
In short: the financing of the circuit fell through.
Quote from: "experiment627"Okay, most of you can relax now - the plans for a F1 circuit at DLRP have been dropped:
Quote Formule 1 : pas de circuit à Euro Disney
Aurélien Perol | 19.11.2008, 17h27 | Mise à jour : 18h49
La F1 chez Mickey, c'est fini : hier soir, le groupe Lagardère sports a annoncé dans un communiqué «ne pas donner suite au projet d'organiser en 2010 le Grand prix de France de Formule 1 dans la région de Val d'Europe.» Et d'expliquer que «malgré la qualité du dossier constitué par les deux partenaires privés (ndlr Lagardère et Eurodisney) et le soutien de Bernie Ecclestone, il s'est avéré impossible de trouver un accord avec les autres parties prenantes concernées. »
D'après une souce proche du dossier, Lagardère Sports n'aurait pas reçu un soutien financier espéré de la part de l'Etat, et n'a donc pas pu bouclé son plan de financement à temps pour l'organisation d'un grand prix en 2010. Côté Disney, on confirme la décision : «d'un commun accord, nous avons décidé de ne pas poursuivre l'étude du projet, car le business plan n'a pas pu être finalisé» indique un porte parole du géant des loisirs. Les difficultés financières rencontrées par Lagardère dans la reprise du grand prix de France étaient connues depuis plusieurs semaines.
Lors d'une réunion à Matignon le 5 novembre dernier, les représentants de Lagardère Sports avaient, sans succès, sollicité les élus de Val d'Europe pour combler un trou de financement de 15 millions d'euros. Hier dans la journée, la députée de la 8e circonscription de Seine-et-Marne Chantal Brunel a lancé un «appel de la dernière chance» aux maires du secteur afin de «sauver le Grand prix de France». Une demande à nouveau rejetée par les élus.
(Source: Le Parisien (//http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/formule-1-pas-de-circuit-a-euro-disney-19-11-2008-314843.php))
In short: the financing of the circuit fell through.
Yay :D I wouldn't have been happy to see the 3rd theme park site being covered in tarmac. I wonder if this will have a bearing on the original contract with the French government saying something new needs to be ready for 2012. I wonder if Disney will start thinking about a new idea.
Hooray! Huzzah! Whoopee!
News of the day right there!
I'd just like to thank the person(s) who decided to cancel this project. :lol:
Phew...what a relief! :) :D/
yay, what a relief but now the thoughts shift to the 3rd gate dilema
:( shame would of been good
When this was first mentioned I wrote in:
:https://forum.dlpguide.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4591
"F1 charges a circuit for the privilege of holding a race, so Disney would be well advised to stay clear of paying for a facility."
and
"The investment required would be huge. The british grand prix is being moved from my local circuit (silverstone) to Donington
Donington are having to invest £100 million merely to improve their (admittedly poor) facilities.
Who on earth would pay? It would need to be government supported and there in lies all kinds of problems.
A private invester or investers? That is one set of rich people. The best way to make a small fortue in F1 is to start with a large one!"
A shame it seems to be proved correct!
Still, it made for a fun discussion!!!
I'm so glad that this project is dead. Formula 1 and Disney doesn't fit together.
here is part of the story in english
The future of the French Grand Prix has been plunged into chaos after it has been revealed that Euro Disney – the leading alternative to host the race following Magny-Cours' disappearance – has withdrawn its bid.
With no French Grand Prix on the F1 calendar in 2009 – for the first time since 1955 – and the sport's commercial rights-holder Bernie Ecclestone vowing 'never' to return to the unpopular Nevers circuit again, France had been looking for a new venue to stage the event. Euro Disney had been seen as the most favourable option – until now.
Magny-Cours has long been slated for its rural location, poor access, lack of on-track action and poor crowd turn-out, but Euro Disney had appeared to be a potential saviour, offering huge opportunities in terms of exposure and publicity. Yesterday, however, Euro Disney and the Lagardere Sports group behind the bid announced that with the necessary funding unable to be secured, the project was off.
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'Despite the quality of the dossier put together by the two private partners and the support of Bernie Ecclestone, it proved impossible to reach an agreement with the other parties, which was an essential condition in the development of the project,' read a joint statement, revealed on Pitpass.
'As a result, Lagardere Sports, in accordance with Euro Disney, has decided not to pursue the project to organise the 2010 Formula One French Grand Prix in the Val d'Europe region.'
It is reported that the Euro Disney initiative – which had the backing of France's only F1 World Champion, four-time title-winner Alain Prost – was unpopular with local residents, who last weekend protested against the noise that would have been created and the negative impact a race would have had on their quality of life. Locals have also expressed themselves in opposition to a grand prix around the streets of Paris, an idea long championed by Ecclestone.
Euro Disney was one of six possibilities being mused over by the French motorsport federation (FFSA), and could have taken place as soon as 2010, but the latest news means the return of the French Grand Prix – in the country that coined the term grand prix – could now be some years further off still.
Brilliant news.
I've not really been following this project until recently, because it seemed just like a load of fabricated possibilities based along the lines of "we'd like a new F1 track - hey, there's some land at val d'europe!", forgetting completely that it didn't fit one bit with the actual planning of the resort, the local environment or the reasons those 15 million visitors come to this little patch of Ile de France. But then I saw the plans - there were actually plans! - and... oh blimey. They weren't even going to attempt to separate it from the resort. It'd be hideous, ugly, noisy - when in use - and a barren wasteland for the rest of the year. I mean - seriously - were Euro Disney SCA keen on this, did they really place a bid to have this next to Disneyland? I'd be one hell of a price to pay just for a few extra filled hotel rooms.
And sure, Walt Disney World has something similar, but that resort is HUGE and the course does not run directly past the windows of expensive Disney Hotels. Most guests never know it's there.
So hurrah for the credit crunch is all I can say. Let's hope when the money starts rolling around again, they haven't forgotten Lava Lagoon. And common sense.
its official, posted on ITV F1 website!
Bernie Ecclestone has warned that the French Grand Prix is unlikely to return to the Formula 1 calendar before 2011.
Next year's race has already been cancelled after the French motorsport federation (FFSA) announced in October that it was no longer willing to promote it due to the economic downturn and the substantial loss the event made in 2008.
Amid general dissatisfaction with Magny-Cours, the FFSA has been evaluating a number of proposals to stage the race at other venues closer to Paris from 2010 onwards.
But earlier this week the Disneyland Paris project, seen as the front-runner, was abandoned after its backers concluded it was not financially viable.
Ecclestone told French newspaper L'Equipe that, as a result, "I think it's almost certain that there will not be a grand prix in 2010".
He added that he was disappointed to see the Disneyland scheme fail.
"I always thought the Disney site was the right place for us, the new location that would suit the French Grand Prix," he said.
"There's a lot of infrastructure in place, the trains go there, everyone would know it – it was perfect."
Ecclestone has been looking for a new home for the French GP for several years, with Magny-Cours unpopular with many in the paddock due to its remote location and lack of atmosphere.
The F1 supremo believes the event needs to be held in the Paris metropolitan area, perhaps even on a street circuit taking in some of the capital's landmarks.
The FFSA admitted last month that the Disneyland project was the only one likely to be ready in time for 2010, but said five other ventures were all "serious" possibilities in the longer term.
A bid to move the race to the relatively poor Paris suburb of Sarcelles as a regeneration initiative is backed by the local mayor and former F1 driver Jean-Pierre Beltoise, and claims to have already secured some private funding.
Another option is Flins-sur-Seine northwest of Paris, the site of a large Renault manufacturing plant.
Ecclestone says he is keen to visit prospective venues himself and believes it is worth taking time to find the right long-term solution.
He added that he would not allow the race's future to be decided by domestic political considerations, as happened in 1991 when it was moved from the popular Paul Ricard circuit in Provence to Magny-Cours at the behest of President Mitterrand.
"We went to Magny-Cours for political reasons, for the wrong reasons," said Ecclestone.
"Let's avoid doing that again.
"What we want is to find definitely the right venue, as the French Grand Prix needs to be long-lasting."
Things may not be as dead as it appears:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=36665 (http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36665%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
reading the article i would say its pretty dead, thank goodness
Quote from: "ford prefect"Things may not be as dead as it appears:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=36665 (http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36665%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
Interesting article that. :)
As someone who doesn't know a thing about F1, I still find it quite odd that they won't fund the actual race themselves. (Not that I'd want them to.) But then I suppose that's like us forking out billions for London to host the Olympics. I'm still glad Euro Disney aren't striking financial deals to make this happen when they should be doing the same for other projects.
Is there no land near CDG that's suitable? That has arguably even better transport links, and more than enough noise of its own.
I really hope the Euro Disney management does not revive the project with the first turn in financing.I reaaally wouldn't like to see Mickey in race uniform and Minnie in sexy clothes,bleach blonde hair :roll: ...'teasing' guests instead of greeting them..!! :shock:
I think they forget that this is mainly a family oriented park and anyways the Disney culture is totally different from that of F1.It would not make a good match and the magic would totally be ruined...So F1,just keep off...! :x
Quote from: "N-Igmagineer_88"I really hope the Euro Disney management does not revive the project with the first turn in financing.I reaaally wouldn't like to see Mickey in race uniform and Minnie in sexy clothes,bleach blonde hair :roll: ...'teasing' guests instead of greeting them..!! :shock:
I think they forget that this is mainly a family oriented park and anyways the Disney culture is totally different from that of F1.It would not make a good match and the magic would totally be ruined...So F1,just keep off...! :x
I am sure you wrote that to provoke a response and to wind up those who like both.
Much as I dislike shouting:
MOTORSPORT IS A FAMILY THING!!!
I take my four year old and two year old children to motor racing events frequently. They have been to touring cars, historic races, F1, F3, A1GP, Le Mans and GT races and they love it.
Please consider that it is possible to be passionate about Disney and Motorsport.
Quote from: "ford prefect"Quote from: "N-Igmagineer_88"I really hope the Euro Disney management does not revive the project with the first turn in financing.I reaaally wouldn't like to see Mickey in race uniform and Minnie in sexy clothes,bleach blonde hair :roll: ...'teasing' guests instead of greeting them..!! :shock:
I think they forget that this is mainly a family oriented park and anyways the Disney culture is totally different from that of F1.It would not make a good match and the magic would totally be ruined...So F1,just keep off...! :x
I am sure you wrote that to provoke a response and to wind up those who like both.
Much as I dislike shouting:
MOTORSPORT IS A FAMILY THING!!!
I take my four year old and two year old children to motor racing events frequently. They have been to touring cars, historic races, F1, F3, A1GP, Le Mans and GT races and they love it.
Please consider that it is possible to be passionate about Disney and Motorsport.
I was just expressing my opinion.No provocation intended(don't forget that this is a topic started by people
opposing the F1 project so i don't think i was 'targeting' at any F1 fan).Shouting is clearly not the way.Personally i am not that interested in F1 but surely I respect that other people are.
As for the family thing,i think it was clear that i was referring to the showgirls and general spirit that accompany it and,of course,not the sport itself.
That i think is not Disney.That doesn't mean that Disney does not include other racing elements(e.g.Autopia,Cars) more family oriented.Just to clear things out...
Quote from: "ford prefect"I am sure you wrote that to provoke a response and to wind up those who like both.
Much as I dislike shouting:
MOTORSPORT IS A FAMILY THING!!!
I take my four year old and two year old children to motor racing events frequently. They have been to touring cars, historic races, F1, F3, A1GP, Le Mans and GT races and they love it.
Please consider that it is possible to be passionate about Disney and Motorsport.
I totally agree with you, its a family event, debatable if a Disney event, but still a family event.
Don't forget the Walt Disney World (the worlds top family resort) with their Speedway which takes a lot of money from their nascar and indycar experiences. Guess who they get their money off? Yep its families.
These days the showgirls aren't around as much as people seem to think (from my experiences). I saw more at a family football event a few months ago.
Quote from: "Willow"Quote from: "ford prefect"I am sure you wrote that to provoke a response and to wind up those who like both.
Much as I dislike shouting:
MOTORSPORT IS A FAMILY THING!!!
I take my four year old and two year old children to motor racing events frequently. They have been to touring cars, historic races, F1, F3, A1GP, Le Mans and GT races and they love it.
Please consider that it is possible to be passionate about Disney and Motorsport.
I totally agree with you, its a family event, debatable if a Disney event, but still a family event.
Don't forget the Walt Disney World (the worlds top family resort) with their Speedway which takes a lot of money from their nascar and indycar experiences. Guess who they get their money off? Yep its families.
These days the showgirls aren't around as much as people seem to think (from my experiences). I saw more at a family football event a few months ago.
You're right about the WDW.The difference as compared to DLRP though,is that WDW has by far more space available and is generally a complex that has the ability to satisfy literally all interests.
This,however,is not the case with DLRP,a resort centered mostly around its magic kingdom park.The space is limited and was initially reserved for a third Disney park.It's all a matter of priorities,and of course the issue of the proximity of the course to the Disney hotels involving sound disturbances and large amounts of concrete interfering with the green character of the entire resort.