Dunno if this has been raised before, but why is walking around Lake Disney so dangerous ?
If anyone, like me, has a hyper 5 year old son, they are very prone go breaking free from your grip and sprinting towards whatever catches their eye.
2 years ago he done this outside HNY, cause he wanted to get a better look at the water.Luckily I caught up with him in time. But then it struck me. With all the families and children that visit each year, why is there is no fence or barrier around the lake ? It's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Even a clear perspex one with those little round stickers on it (shaped like MM). Dunno how many 2-5 year olds are great swimmers, that is of course if the 8 foot drop doesnt knock them unconscience when they hit the water ( how deep is the lake by the way ? )
Anyone else ever had a scary moment around here with their children ?
Quote( how deep is the lake by the way ? )
I believe it's below knee height. Same for the Rivers of the Far West in Frontierland. You can walk to BTM on (wet) foot.
is it that depth all over ?
Quote from: "Kristof"Quote( how deep is the lake by the way ? )
I believe it's below knee height. Same for the Rivers of the Far West in Frontierland. You can walk to BTM on (wet) foot.
I've got to agree with Petes Dragon. Even knowing how shallow the water is, you've still got quite a drop before you hit the water and watching a child run towards the lake doesnt do my heart rate any good.
We've had heart stopping moments watching children running towards the lake when walking back to Sequoia. We have to keep a tight rein on our son anyway as he has sepcial needs, but any over excited five year old can slip through a parents hand, including mine, especially in Disney. It can really give your heart a jolt.
Saying that, we've walked along the river Thames and watched parents walking quite a way behind little people running along the edge, parents oblivious to what little ones are doing.
like tubbsy says, its parental control that the key, I for one wouldnt relish a fence all the way round the lake as it would detract from the vista. Living on the coast, there are miles of open water and steep drops too. and no fences. But i have to sympathise it must be difficult as the kids are usually soo excited they want to go and see everything. I think bungee cord maybe the answer :lol: :lol:
I've thought the same myself, that parts of the lake seem very easy to access. But it's good that it's like that. It'd be horrible if it were any more artificial than it is, with a barrier all the way around.
I'm sure most people go to parks with a lake or pond with their kids, or walk along the canal, or is that too dangerous these days? :lol:
yeah but if a kids going for a walk with their parents, how excited would they be ? Disneyland's a bit different as they're hyped up to the max ( I know mine are ). Admittedly a barrier wouldnt be the most pleasant thing to look at, but its one hell of a drop !
But I could live with a 3-4 feet barrier, made from see-through perspex. Paint the posts to match the different areas around the lake, have little MM logos and other designs on the perspex.
At the very least, it would give you something to lean whilst enjoying the view knowing that you kids aren't going to crack their skulls open when they land in 3 feet of water
Bungy rope! Thats where I've been going wrong!
I hate to say it, but I think that sometimes parents think their kids are safe cos they're in Disney.
I'd hate to see a barrier too, but something that blends in-as Petes Dragon-suggested might be possble, but I dont think DLRP will, unless, God forbid, anything ever happens.
Hm sorry but that sounds a bit far-fetched. I walk often around lake Disney and lake Disney is one of my favorit landscapes/spots at the resort. I never...and I say it again .... NEVER ever saw one child in the lake and I never saw one child with a cracked skull.
And we must all know: (Like tubbs says) Disney means not you are in a big dabber with any dangers - for example have you ever pounced or cracked your skull at a lamp post?
Personally I think the little barrier around the lake is the only thing you need. It isn´t the case that you have a one-level-walk into the lake. The childs must first run to the lake (with their lower view) crawl about the little barrier and "jump" into the water. That´s not just one short moment, there are two or three. And I think every parent would see this danger first and take their childs before they make the big fish!
There are some other lakes in the world where kids can easly fall in and lake disney isn´t one of them. For me I can see I know to hold my little second cousin (2 years old and very wild) in front of lakes and I´m in the condition to stop him even if there is no barrier in front of a lake. For lake disney I would say I would catch him early before the water.
A fence around lake disney is for me a simple horror scenario. This area lifes from the lake and from the landscaping. I never saw a lake with a fence around. And I wouldn´t like to see any more barrierers around lake disney. For example I (and I´m sure my little second cousin too) LOVE to sit directly on the little stone barrier and watch the fishes in the water. It´s so wonderful to sit there under the trees, having a low breeze and beeing directly at the water WITHOUT any bigger fences or barriers. By the way it would be a hard think to have Newport Bay Club at the Fenced-Sea.
It´s not a question of security for me but for parents behavior. :wink:
Im sort of torn on this one. I have quite often though how open the lake is, particularly with the ammount of children racing by.
That said, teh idea of a barrier or fence does seem to spoil the vista. Pete's Dragon's suggestion of a perspex fence is what put me off! lol Sounds very 80's he he
Maybe an ornate fencing simmilar to the style now being used on Paradise Pier in DCA may fit in....
The idea for perspex was because its see-thorugh so wouldnt block the view as much as,say, a wooden picket fence.
About kids behaving. Parents try, but there's always that possibility that a free-willed nipper can break free from his mothers grip, and go rushing over to the edge out of curiousity. All it would take is the brakes being applied just a little late, and whoops.
yeah i kinda agree with Pete's Dragon here......
perspex glass wouldn't be that bad???? only around the parts that pose the biggest threat!
its not just kids you need to look out for.....its the drunken peeps (including me :oops: ) coming from Hurricanes at 2 in the morning...........
it can be pretty dangerous
but keep in mind: the kids and the drunken peeps could speared or sliced by the perspex glass if they try to jump over it :P they should change the lake into something dry. disney dessert or so :P :mrgreen:
why would they try to jump over it ? :-k
to catch a fish :mrgreen:
I dunno what Riebi is suggesting, hes a good boy who only likes hot chocolate and cooookies! Oh n fish !!?
I dont think this is one thats going to be agreed on. I can see both sides, that fencing, whilst obscuring the view, would make the lake safer. Perspex may be the way to go.
I wouldnt want to see the lake go. I love to walk past the HNY end and look at Newport Bay all lit up at night. Its so beautiful. (aah the memories!) But like Petes Dragon, i will worry about the lake all the same n continue to give that firm warning when that hand tries to slip away.
nooo I don´t wanna catch one :mrgreen: but the kids and peeeeps (peeps want to catch often something :lol: )
16 years and it really hasn't been an issue yet! Also, that's why it's good for parents to know how to swim. When mine were too small, I used rains. Now, I am confident enough they would be ok doggy paddling till I could jump in after them.
Perspex would look aweful, a metal fence would be better, but none is even better still.
Have always thought its a law suit waiting to happen, but i wouldnt like to see it fenced either. Guess theres dangers everywhere (both for kids and drunken adults! :P ) but how far do we go to make the world completely safe?
Quote from: "loulou123"Have always thought its a law suit waiting to happen, but i wouldnt like to see it fenced either. Guess theres dangers everywhere (both for kids and drunken adults! :P ) but how far do we go to make the world completely safe?
I've Cracked IT !!!!!!!!
[spoiler:12ji53in]
BUBBLEWRAP !!!!!!! :P [/spoiler:12ji53in]
Genius!
:lol:
I was looking at photos I had of the lake, and a barrier around all of it is not necessary, just at HNY. Purely because of that 8-10 feet drop, the rest looks ok
(//http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o427/Brtweed1976/Disney06068.jpg)
Completely off subject. What a fantastic photo! Wish I was there *sigh*
Its been nearly a year since we've been n my mind is foggy. Arent there steps down to the water at the HNY end? If there is, would guests still have access to go and sit on them? Or am I remembering somewhere else? (Feelin my age today... :roll: )
QuoteIts been nearly a year since we've been n my mind is foggy. Arent there steps down to the water at the HNY end? If there is, would guests still have access to go and sit on them? Or am I remembering somewhere else? (Feelin my age today... )
No thats right, there are steps down to the lake at HNY..
Quotebut keep in mind: the kids and the drunken peeps could speared or sliced by the perspex glass if they try to jump over it they should change the lake into something dry. disney dessert or so
hehe, very funny riebi, or what is when the kids or drunken peeps try to run through the Perspex glass :mrgreen: :twisted:
I think disney woul´d be stupid to barrier it, it looks very ugly.
in the first 16 years of the resort nothing happend and in the future it would be the same,
no kid and no drunked is so stupid to run or jump into the water.
all time im on the lake i see kids, sit on the water and feed the ducks or try to get the feet wet...
Last month, I noticed there were a couple of spots around the lake that were taped off.
Frankly, I was a little surprised at how easily someone (say, a complete klutz with his head in the clouds like yours truly) could walk off into the water as well. It's not something you expect to see at Disney.
I think it's one of the things Disney should take a look at in the Lake Disney area, along with a lot of burnt out lights, cracked flooring and the shamelessly dilapidated Hotel New York area. But it seems they're not going to be doing anything around there unless something spontaneously disintegrates.
I'm glad someone has bought this topic up, everytime we go me and my bf say how dangerous the lake tooks and how easy it would for some little kid to fall in, is there any say "lifeguards" on duty, that watch over the lake or is it completely unattended for anyone to fall in?
QuoteFrankly, I was a little surprised at how easily someone (say, a complete klutz with his head in the clouds like yours truly) could walk off into the water as well. It's not something you expect to see at Disney.
I just say what i think about the idea to make rails around the lake, thats no reason to call me or someone a Klutz...
I've thought about this issue before myself, and I came to the conclusion quite a while ago that a barrier of some sort isn't needed.
First of all, if a small child did fall in the lake, then in my opinion it is the parents fault for not supervising their child properly. Any child over the age of about, say, 6 or 7 should have the sense to work out that they shouldn't mess around near the edge.
Secondly, a drunk is taking the risk by getting drunk, so if they fall in it's their fault really.
Finally, all those lakes that you see in public parks don't have barriers, so why should this? And how many times do you hear of people falling in? Rarely. As far as I know, nobody has had an acident at Lake Disney yet, and if someone did they should be able to easily climb out since it's so shallow.
I agree with u RnRCj, there havent been problems in the last 15 years so let it be, people need to be responsible for their actions and those of their children its not disneys responsibilty. like yuo say there are loads of parks with lakes that are far deeper than lake disney. the whole im going to take you to court becuase im totally irresponsible mind set really annoys me.
All I'm saying is accidents do happen. There's only a tiny portion of the lake that could do with some protection, near HNY. Not because of the water but the large drop.
As for saying its the parents responsibility, that's a little harsh. No child in the world behaves as they should 100% of the time, regardless of how well they've been brought up.
If it was up to everyone to look after their own safety, why is there railings on the bridge at the lake ? Why is there a barrier along the walk from HNY to Sante Fe ? It's general safety requirements. ( must actually have a good look at the lake when I go )
Quote from: "Pete's Dragon"All I'm saying is accidents do happen. There's only a tiny portion of the lake that could do with some protection, near HNY. Not because of the water but the large drop.
As for saying its the parents responsibility, that's a little harsh. No child in the world behaves as they should 100% of the time, regardless of how well they've been brought up.
If it was up to everyone to look after their own safety, why is there railings on the bridge at the lake ? Why is there a barrier along the walk from HNY to Sante Fe ? It's general safety requirements. ( must actually have a good look at the lake when I go )
I agree. The "well, parents should be responsible" argument tends to shut people up, but implies some sort of superhuman parents.
And how do we know it's never been a problem before? If I fell into the lake, and believe me I could, I would be too embarrassed to cause a ruckus. I'd just climb back out and keep on walking.
There is a very nice fence design around the lake (the one with the golden globes with Mickey Mouse silhouettes on them). I think it would be nice if they just extended those a little. Certainly at Hotel New York and the parts that are simply taped off at the moment.
Quote from: "Pete's Dragon"All I'm saying is accidents do happen. There's only a tiny portion of the lake that could do with some protection, near HNY. Not because of the water but the large drop.
As for saying its the parents responsibility, that's a little harsh. No child in the world behaves as they should 100% of the time, regardless of how well they've been brought up.
If it was up to everyone to look after their own safety, why is there railings on the bridge at the lake ? Why is there a barrier along the walk from HNY to Sante Fe ? It's general safety requirements. ( must actually have a good look at the lake when I go )
I agree. The "well, parents should be responsible" argument tends to shut people up, but implies some sort of superhuman parents.
And how do we know it's never been a problem before? If I fell into the lake, and believe me I could, I would be too embarrassed to cause a ruckus. I'd just climb back out and keep on walking.
There is a very nice fence design around the lake (the one with the golden globes with Mickey Mouse silhouettes on them). I think it would be nice if they just extended those a little. Certainly at Hotel New York and the parts that are simply taped off at the moment.
QuoteAs for saying its the parents responsibility, that's a little harsh. No child in the world behaves as they should 100% of the time, regardless of how well they've been brought up.
No, of course children don't always behave. But if a child is at risk of falling in lake, then I think a parent would have to be stupid not to be supervising them. :roll:
QuoteAnd how do we know it's never been a problem before? If I fell into the lake, and believe me I could, I would be too embarrassed to cause a ruckus. I'd just climb back out and keep on walking.
Well that wouldn't really be a problem then if you just fell in and climbed out with no fuss whatsoever. I expect that maybe something like that has happened before even. :wink: But as far as we know, nobody has actually been involved in a proper accident at the lake, getting injured and such.
Quote from: "RnRCj"No, of course children don't always behave. But if a child is at risk of falling in lake, then I think a parent would have to be stupid not to be supervising them. :roll:
[...]
Well that wouldn't really be a problem then if you just fell in and climbed out with no fuss whatsoever. I expect that maybe something like that has happened before even. :wink: But as far as we know, nobody has actually been involved in a proper accident at the lake, getting injured and such.
Yes, I too suspect it may have happened a few times, haha.
But really, while I'm in no way saying Disneyland Paris should take on the often bizarre safety regulations of sue-happy California (I'm sure you've all read about how you can no longer leave a guest reaction at Disneyland, and some of you will have read about the umpteen times a single attraction there can get remodeled because of some silly new law called the Slippery Banana Act of 2005 or similar)... It does often linger at the other end of the spectrum. At a Disney theme park, even in Paris, people expect to feel ridiculously safe and pampered. This should involve railings, in my opinion.
By the way, if anyone should wish to refresh their memory...
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=lake+di ... land+paris (http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=lake+disney+disneyland+paris%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
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Okay when they put these railing around the lake maybe it woul´d be nice, but I am of the opinion that it would look nicer withot the rail...
i think when they put a rail, maybe u can´t sit on the water anymore or i´m wrong?
But when all people fell more safty, i think they have to do it, we need no bad press :)
QuoteNo, of course children don't always behave. But if a child is at risk of falling in lake, then I think a parent would have to be stupid not to be supervising them.
its not a case of stupidity, its the fact that it takes as little as 2 seconds if the child manages to get free of your grip and they are gone. it cant always be the parents fault.
I always worry with my son when we go past the lake, i keep him on reins or in a pushchair but some children dont have reins/pushchair. I would be very uncomfortable with him walking without a rein near the lake even if i was holding his hand.
I know this is worst case senario but think...
a hyper 3 year old whos just been told its time to go back to the hotel, he/she wants to stay in the park and is fighting all the way back to get their parent to turn around and take them back, they get free, spot the water, the reflections of the lights in the water ect and run for it. its cold and icy, the floor is slippy mum/dad goes after toddler but slips over and then within the space of about 5 seconds its to late.
If there had been a nice ornate fence around the lake by the dangerous parts when it opened and it was just part of it would you still see it as an eyesore? Fences and/or railings work as long as they are suited to the area... the fences around big thunder mountain, the area by POTC thats fenced off, loads of different places over there have fences and theres nothing wrong with them.
This is an interesting topic as this very trip, we did see a small child run for the drop just outside HNY with a frantic parent dashing after them (they had been getting an ice-cream when the child slipped free. My own 2 year old was pretty good but I did let him play outside the Sequoia with his brother (lets face it children need to run sometimes!) We told him not to go near the water but little ones are easily distracted and seeing the balloon go up caused him to make head in the direction of the lake but his brother was right with him and held his hand when he got within about 2 meters of the water's edge.
I don't know if there is a solution to this dilemma but I do think that the lake is not particularly safe and it would give parents far more peice of mind if it had some kind of fence around it so that they could let the children play and not have to hold on to them 'just in case'! IMO It's an unnecessary stress for parents at the moment.
I Agree with Pete's Dragon here, Definately. luckily enough my nephew is pretty good for staying close to us when we are in disney, But I think a fence going around the lake is a good idea! Definately. Just because it's only knee high, doesn't mean you can't drown in it.
Thankfully nothing has happened up until now, but what is to say nothing like that goes on in the future and I doubt very much whether anything would be done about it until something did happen.
I think to blame the parents is just wrong, if you are there with a couple of children for example and they both run in different directions then it is hardly your fault is it?! As much as you say "Oh well it must be the fault of the parents for not watching their children." it's not always that easy and I expect most of you who are saying that Don't have children. I can understand where you are coming from though Because I get frustrated when people don't watch their children, but because my nephew lives at home with us then I now know, it's not that simple!
If Disney put better precautions there in place in the first place, then parents wouldnt have to worry.
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What gets me is that some of the Lake is protected with railings, yet the one bit at HNY with the dangerous drop isn't. Gonna have a good look when I go in september, as it's been 2 years since I was there.