Looks like Paris has been left out again so far, apart from telling us they're having a 25th Anniversary, which we knew. Sad they always seem to get left out :(
I'm rather annoyed. Every park except ours got awesome new rides or lands. This D23 was HUGE and all DLP got was a POSTER for the 25th. Wow big news, they're having the 25th anniversary, what a shocker.
I thought things were just starting to turn around for DLP, I thought that with all the refurbs of rides and the park we were finally going to see DLP become a Disney experience like Disneyland Resort. I thought we'd finally see Disneyland Park get some new rides in it. I thought the Studios might get more rethinking and expansion. But I ASSUME it wasn't in DLP's budget to do so.
I mean didn't we get 1 Billion from Disney recently? They couldn't have spent all of that on the refurbishments...
Part of the problem is I assume that DLP isn't directly owned by Disney.
There were no major announcements for Disney Hong Kong or Tokyo either, as those also aren't owned by Disney directly. ;)
D23 is I believe primarily a Disney corporation thing, the announcements are all for things that are affected by Disney itself, and those 3 parks are not, at least, not directly.
Quote from: mrpiggywinkles52 on August 16, 2015, 01:44:27 AM
I mean didn't we get 1 Billion from Disney recently? They couldn't have spent all of that on the refurbishments...
One thought that hit me, is if those money maybe was used towards debt and refurbishment.
But that is just a thought. And even though, it wasn't anything announced at D23, that doesn't mean that they are not working on something.
Quote from: norhel on August 16, 2015, 10:17:39 AM
Quote from: mrpiggywinkles52 on August 16, 2015, 01:44:27 AM
I mean didn't we get 1 Billion from Disney recently? They couldn't have spent all of that on the refurbishments...
One thought that hit me, is if those money maybe was used towards debt and refurbishment.
But that is just a thought. And even though, it wasn't anything announced at D23, that doesn't mean that they are not working on something.
They are certainly scheduling a lot of refurbs and such lately. ^_^
Something that the big cash injection may have been used for.
As for big investment announcements... not sure. When has DLP done those traditionally?
Quote from: DisneyRon on August 16, 2015, 10:28:45 AM
As for big investment announcements... not sure. When has DLP done those traditionally?
I have no idea to be honest.
I really thought they'd have something special planned for the 25th anniversary. Maybe like a new ride, I've heard things about a new Star Wars section of the park near Pizza Planet for the anniversary but surely something like that would take a long time to build and I presume this would be the latest opportunity they could announce it if it was going to happen.
Tokyo are getting a Frozen major expansion, and Hong Kong are getting a huge Iron Man attraction. Far enough, it's not as big as getting a Star Wars land but they are at least getting new features...we get a poster?
Quote from: DisneyRon on August 16, 2015, 08:59:14 AM
Part of the problem is I assume that DLP isn't directly owned by Disney.
There were no major announcements for Disney Hong Kong or Tokyo either, as those also aren't owned by Disney directly. ;)
D23 is I believe primarily a Disney corporation thing, the announcements are all for things that are affected by Disney itself, and those 3 parks are not, at least, not directly.
THIS ^^^The D23 conference is primarily a conference for the American Disney parks. Their primary concern is Disneyland California and Walt Disney World Florida, as these are the parks that they have 100 % control over. The other parks are not their concern. They can suggest the changes and upgrades but if the money or the interest from the other owners is not there, then why bother wasting conference time.
Everyone seems to blame Disney for not looking after DLP but maybe some of the blame should be placed at the other owners. They might not have the same motivation or interest in new ideas for DLP. The other owners may just care about the money the park makes for them and have no interest in bringing new ideas to the park.
Its like when landlords dont bother doing home improvements on properties they rent. As long as the place is safe, who cares that its not being updated, as long as tenants are willing to pay to live there. Where as when you own your own property, you do home improvements, you upgrade fixtures and fittings, you make sure it is not just liveable but has character and reflects your personality.
Quote from: bad-pink-tink on August 16, 2015, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: DisneyRon on August 16, 2015, 08:59:14 AM
Part of the problem is I assume that DLP isn't directly owned by Disney.
There were no major announcements for Disney Hong Kong or Tokyo either, as those also aren't owned by Disney directly. ;)
D23 is I believe primarily a Disney corporation thing, the announcements are all for things that are affected by Disney itself, and those 3 parks are not, at least, not directly.
Yes, but like others have pointed out. There was the announcement of a new Ironman Attraction for Hong Kong
THIS ^^^
The D23 conference is primarily a conference for the American Disney parks. Their primary concern is Disneyland California and Walt Disney World Florida, as these are the parks that they have 100 % control over. The other parks are not their concern. They can suggest the changes and upgrades but if the money or the interest from the other owners is not there, then why bother wasting conference time.
Everyone seems to blame Disney for not looking after DLP but maybe some of the blame should be placed at the other owners. They might not have the same motivation or interest in new ideas for DLP. The other owners may just care about the money the park makes for them and have no interest in bringing new ideas to the park.
Its like when landlords dont bother doing home improvements on properties they rent. As long as the place is safe, who cares that its not being updated, as long as tenants are willing to pay to live there. Where as when you own your own property, you do home improvements, you upgrade fixtures and fittings, you make sure it is not just liveable but has character and reflects your personality.
Yes, but as others have mentioned HK had the Ironman thing announced. And Tokyo had a frozen expansion announced. DLP got a poster.
I understand that Disney doesn't entirely own DLP. But aren't they currently increasing their shares in the place to own it more? And don't they have the majority of shares now since that Prince sold his?
They injected 1 Billion into DLP, if that's all been used for refurbishments then they should have given more money to be used for a new attraction or Star Wars land to draw people into the parks. The refurbs will enhance the experience for regular park-goers and people that were already going to go to Disneyland Paris. But they won't drag in new guests. New attractions DO bring in new guests. If the Studios or half of Discoveryland became Star Wars land that would have brought in SO MANY guests...
Debts and loans need to get paid too. Look at the huge amount of money being put into the hotels. and then the new Ratatouille ride. When all of thats covered, there wouldn't be much left. The focus seems to be on the hotels and general upkeep atm, not new stuff. How can they create new things when they cant even keep the existing rides and attractions up to the same level of maintenance as the American parks?
Quote from: mrpiggywinkles52 on August 16, 2015, 02:24:00 PM
Yes, but as others have mentioned HK had the Ironman thing announced. And Tokyo had a frozen expansion announced. DLP got a poster.
I understand that Disney doesn't entirely own DLP. But aren't they currently increasing their shares in the place to own it more? And don't they have the majority of shares now since that Prince sold his?
They injected 1 Billion into DLP, if that's all been used for refurbishments then they should have given more money to be used for a new attraction or Star Wars land to draw people into the parks. The refurbs will enhance the experience for regular park-goers and people that were already going to go to Disneyland Paris. But they won't drag in new guests. New attractions DO bring in new guests. If the Studios or half of Discoveryland became Star Wars land that would have brought in SO MANY guests...
If I recall correctly the group that owns the majority stake in Tokyo Disneyland and Hong Kong Disneyland now has a large stake in DLP, with the French group being the largest I imagine.
Major investments are a decision by those 2 groups primarily, as they own the vast majority of shares.
Disney Corp itself doesn't have as many shares.
While you're certainly right that new attractions would bring more guests, that's a lot of capital those investors might not want to cough up, Disney is not in the lead here.
Quote from: DisneyRon on August 16, 2015, 02:36:14 PM
Quote from: mrpiggywinkles52 on August 16, 2015, 02:24:00 PM
Yes, but as others have mentioned HK had the Ironman thing announced. And Tokyo had a frozen expansion announced. DLP got a poster.
I understand that Disney doesn't entirely own DLP. But aren't they currently increasing their shares in the place to own it more? And don't they have the majority of shares now since that Prince sold his?
They injected 1 Billion into DLP, if that's all been used for refurbishments then they should have given more money to be used for a new attraction or Star Wars land to draw people into the parks. The refurbs will enhance the experience for regular park-goers and people that were already going to go to Disneyland Paris. But they won't drag in new guests. New attractions DO bring in new guests. If the Studios or half of Discoveryland became Star Wars land that would have brought in SO MANY guests...
If I recall correctly the group that owns the majority stake in Tokyo Disneyland and Hong Kong Disneyland now has a large stake in DLP, with the French group being the largest I imagine.
Major investments are a decision by those 2 groups primarily, as they own the vast majority of shares.
Disney Corp itself doesn't have as many shares.
While you're certainly right that new attractions would bring more guests, that's a lot of capital those investors might not want to cough up, Disney is not in the lead here.
I could have swore Disney bought all the shares from the prince from one of the middle eastern countries giving up his...Or maybe I just read Disney was trying to gain shares in DLP...
Either way though, even if Disney doesn't have the majority of shares, couldn't they say to DLP "Hey we're giving you a billion dollars for Star Wars Land" anyways? And I doubt DLP or it's shareholders would refuse that type of investment from Disney. I'm not certain how the whole system works. But isn't that the case? That Disney could just give DLP money for a new land?
EDIT: According to the Guardian:
"Walt Disney owns 40% of the business. In its third multimillion-euro bailout of its French offspring, the US company is injecting €400m into Euro Disney and swapping €600m of debt into shares. The US company will also give Euro Disney breathing space on the rest of the loans until 2024."
Yesterday my kids were asking me what it was like when I went to Disneyland (year 1999, 16 years ago). I went about finding my autograph book and when I got it out I was seriously surprised to see I still had a park map from July 1999. I decided to have a look and see how much things have changed, to find it to be pretty much exactly the same. There has been a few changes; but very very few. Yeah they've had financial troubles, but they've also had a serious amount of help to bail them out.
When you look in comparison to other parks, fully owned or part owner by Disney, they've had the smallest park growth rate. I also went to Disney World Florida in 1999, 2 weeks after going to Paris, and the park now has SO much more attractions since i was there it's pretty unbelievable. I can't help but think this is one of the reasons they're struggling. There's just nothing new. I went once, 16 years ago and can think of a handful of things I want to see that I haven't seen before.
Quote from: mrpiggywinkles52 on August 16, 2015, 04:26:11 PM
EDIT: According to the Guardian:
"Walt Disney owns 40% of the business. In its third multimillion-euro bailout of its French offspring, the US company is injecting €400m into Euro Disney and swapping €600m of debt into shares. The US company will also give Euro Disney breathing space on the rest of the loans until 2024."
According to Saloon Mickey, TWDC now owns a 78,9 % of DLP:
https://salonmickey.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/twdc-increases-its-ownership-of-disneyland-paris-to-78-90/
Quote from: norhel on August 16, 2015, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: mrpiggywinkles52 on August 16, 2015, 04:26:11 PM
EDIT: According to the Guardian:
"Walt Disney owns 40% of the business. In its third multimillion-euro bailout of its French offspring, the US company is injecting €400m into Euro Disney and swapping €600m of debt into shares. The US company will also give Euro Disney breathing space on the rest of the loans until 2024."
According to Saloon Mickey, TWDC now owns a 78,9 % of DLP:
https://salonmickey.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/twdc-increases-its-ownership-of-disneyland-paris-to-78-90/
Yikes, if they now have a majority stake then this gets a little more confusing...
I guess the big refurb operation is more important, and perhaps they want to see the performance of the park during the anniversary before committing to a big investment for a park extension? :)
If they've been doing the same thing for the past 16 years people are going to go elsewhere. No wonder the figures are falling if there's no change. Something like a Star Wars land or some more marvel features would be a huge boost and open up a bigger audience, increasing revenue.
THIS!
I absolutely agree!
As I understand the refurbs are just step one. In between the programm also contains a step 2; WDS. This woua Toy Story Mania, a new (Pixar)show instead of Animagique, a quick counter restaurant instead of Toon Town photoppoint, a Hollywood street with shops and restaurants (including Starbucks), renewed Studio Tram Tour with renewed scenes, a Marvel land instead of backlot (RnRC>Spider-Man, Armageddon replaced by an Iron Man ride, Moteurs>Captain America). And finally a new Avengers ride for WDS 25th. Is that all? No, Wolber has a goal. A very nicr one. Getting a new ride for Adventureland.
Off course they want a Star Wars land, but it proposiled to be a mini-land. According to D&M it would contain Star Tours 2.0, Jedi Academy at Starport, a gigantic shop at the current Discoveryland theatre, a meet and greet at the Star Traders spot, a Millennium Falcon Walk Through and a Cantina restaurant. All placed from Videopolis to the current Pizza Planet. When? Who knows. Star Tours is for sure and the shedules are full with plans. But with new movies coming up and the new Star Wars lands they might bring the plans up front of the current masterplan.
I think the first want to focus on polishing the Disneyland Parc for the 25th, and want to leep the plans for afterwards. But whether the announce it or not on a next D23, it says nothing about what is happening. Do not forget they barely mentioned Ratatouille, Dreams or Jedi Academy. Disneyland Paris never announced anything big in advance. Every fan knew Ratatouille came way before Disneyland Paris formally send out a press release.
All speculation.
The amount of 'news' I've heard about what they're doing next in Disneyland in the past 10 years has been amazing. They've done one of the things I've heard.
There is only one big difference between nowadays and the situation the past 10 years: WDC influence has majorly increased with the restructure of debt. You can not simply compare. Different sources state the same (f.e sources of ED92).
Quote from: *TIMMIE* on August 17, 2015, 05:39:55 PM
As I understand the refurbs are just step one. In between the programm also contains a step 2; WDS. This woua Toy Story Mania, a new (Pixar)show instead of Animagique, a quick counter restaurant instead of Toon Town photoppoint, a Hollywood street with shops and restaurants (including Starbucks), renewed Studio Tram Tour with renewed scenes, a Marvel land instead of backlot (RnRC>Spider-Man, Armageddon replaced by an Iron Man ride, Moteurs>Captain America). And finally a new Avengers ride for WDS 25th. Is that all? No, Wolber has a goal. A very nicr one. Getting a new ride for Adventureland.
Off course they want a Star Wars land, but it proposiled to be a mini-land. According to D&M it would contain Star Tours 2.0, Jedi Academy at Starport, a gigantic shop at the current Discoveryland theatre, a meet and greet at the Star Traders spot, a Millennium Falcon Walk Through and a Cantina restaurant. All placed from Videopolis to the current Pizza Planet. When? Who knows. Star Tours is for sure and the shedules are full with plans. But with new movies coming up and the new Star Wars lands they might bring the plans up front of the current masterplan.
I think the first want to focus on polishing the Disneyland Parc for the 25th, and want to leep the plans for afterwards. But whether the announce it or not on a next D23, it says nothing about what is happening. Do not forget they barely mentioned Ratatouille, Dreams or Jedi Academy. Disneyland Paris never announced anything big in advance. Every fan knew Ratatouille came way before Disneyland Paris formally send out a press release.
Not to sound rude, but where are you getting this? All the things you mentioned are just things I've heard the community wish for. Can you provide any kind of source for this information? The only thing I know of that is remotely close to being confirmed is Midway Mania. Where is this Hollywood Street going to go? The only place it would make sense is in front of ToT, is there enough room there? I can't see them replacing Rock n' Roller Coaster, or even re-theming it. I feel it's just too iconic. But who knows, anything is possible.
This new ride wouldn't happen to be Indiana Jones Adventure would it ;) Because that ride costs at least 150 million I'm told. And since Ratatouille cost that I'm inclined to think it'd be more. Not to mention don't those ride vehicles have extremely high maintenance costs? Now perhaps they could change the thing to a trackless system which would be great and reduce maintenance costs.. But I dunno. I think the money would be better spent on several attractions.
$75 million could go on a version of Splash Mountain (I think Frontierland has room to expand), Maybe spend some on Seven Dwarf's Mine train to give Fantasyland a bit of thrill, if there was room in adventureland I'd love to see Jungle Cruise if not then the rest could be used on porting over the Little mermaid ride? I think that's reasonable for the amount of money.
The thing with Star Wars Mini-land is that many people in the UK (can only comment on where I'm from) view DLP as diet Disney, having a smaller SW land will be a headliner. And people will view DLP as more of a diet Disney.
We eventually need to wait and see if things happen. I have never said things are confirmed. And being honest; you never know at DLP. They never have been like shouting out loud about new rides to come. Only when the ride has nearly been finished they send out press releases and put in the marketing.
Sites like ED92 seem to have been proven right lately with recapitalization, new management and rehabs and upgrades of exsiting rides. It did happen within months. We we'll see. But things are changing with the managementchanges and the finances are being reconstructed. You can not deny that. Now hope the various sources on the various sites are right again.
About Adventureland; Indy should be an option. I have read there are more options. Do not forget an Indy 2.0 has been rumoured for Orlando. Along the there are advancements in Cars which should take down the maintenancecost. So it just may make it a bit more possible.
Quote from: *TIMMIE* on August 17, 2015, 10:15:08 PM
We eventually need to wait and see if things happen. I have never said things are confirmed. And being honest; you never know at DLP. They never have been like shouting out loud about new rides to come. Only when the ride has nearly been finished they send out press releases and put in the marketing.
Sites like ED92 seem to have been proven right lately with recapitalization, new management and rehabs and upgrades of exsiting rides. It did happen within months. We we'll see. But things are changing with the managementchanges and the finances are being reconstructed. You can not deny that. Now hope the various sources on the various sites are right again.
About Adventureland; Indy should be an option. I have read there are more options. Do not forget an Indy 2.0 has been rumoured for Orlando. Along the there are advancements in Cars which should take down the maintenancecost. So it just may make it a bit more possible.
Ah, I see what you mean now. ED92 has rumoured this if I understand correctly? I see, that makes much more sense!
No, that's not what I wrote.