Posted this on the Haunted Mansion forums but then thought... 'Hey might get some interest on magicforum due to all the Manor fans.'
Okay I've noticed that some folks wonder why the end sequence of the Manor doesn't have the ghost-effect that the Mansion has. Well... its because there's a difference between ghosts and ghouls. And the animatronic residents of Phantom Canyon are not ghosts (well apart from the poker players and the spirits flying around the sky); they are ghouls. Ghouls are solid, they are undead (usually... there are a number of different types) and are most often cannibalistic.
A friend of mine says she gets disturbed by the Canyon sequence as she feels they're all just smiling and waiting to eat her. Perhaps this is the idea? I dunno; just speculation. In the Mansion there seems to be two options... leave and get haunted by a Hitchhiker forever, or return and fill the quota of the Mansion. The Manor... well perhaps there's three options... either escape the Manor, become one of the ghoulish residents of the Canyon... or be eaten?
Also... its my belief that Phantom Canyon is not the underworld. Its basically a ghoul town (with some ghosts). The town is the old part of Thunder Mesa that fell into the canyon which opened up during the earthquake (pretty sure something like this was stated somewhere too). Its said people fear to go down there as noises and stuff are heared at night. Kinda makes me think that Phantom Canyon is located on this plane of existance. Clue's in the name too. Not to mention you can see the Manor up high before you go to the wine cellers on a cliff. Oh and I'm pretty sure you can see Thunder Mountain somewhere during the Canyon sequence? Maybe? Need confirmation.
BTW Phantom's are a different matter, be they ghost or ghoul or both. Melanie on the other hand is a ghost during the Manor sequences, but it seems to be just telling the story. Once we're outside the Manor she's skeletal and looks more like a ghoul to be honest...
Of course these are just my opinions. Thought I'd share them.
Wow thank you for sharing- next I will see the ride with different eyes!
The earthquake you mentioned came from the dynamite at Thounder Mountain, right?
Quote from: "perrollaz"Wow thank you for sharing- next I will see the ride with different eyes!
The earthquake you mentioned came from the dynamite at Thounder Mountain, right?
Its unknown whether the earthquake was either natural or it was the Thunder Bird's doing (a deity that lives on Thunder Mountain), angered at the mining.
You can indeed see BTM in the 'ghoul town' and since you exit the manor through the back (you can see the rear of the house behind you), you might be right about it being another part of the town..... (roughly where main street is in real life!!!!)
Quote from: "davidrsykes"You can indeed see BTM in the 'ghoul town' and since you exit the manor through the back (you can see the rear of the house behind you), you might be right about it being another part of the town..... (roughly where main street is in real life!!!!)
Ah thanks for the confirmation. I haven't been on the ride for five years (though hoping to visit DLRP this year!).
Yes I heard that the canyon is located somewhere to near to the Manor; but I can't remember whether this source said it was to the east or west. You can kinda gather where its located during the ride though. I'd like to know exactly where everything is located in a canon sense to the story... like the catacombs etc. Apparently the canyon opened up during the quake and took that part of the town. So all those buildings in Phantom Canyon would be the old town buildings. As we know Thunder Mesa was rebuilt and is thriving again even after the mine was closed.
Hi, I was just wondering after reading through your posts, does this mean that the town you go through on the ride is supposed to be the old town of Thunder Mesa and the ghouls or ghosts are the towns people that died in the earthquake?
So is the canyon town of old Thunder Mesa still behind those trees opposite to Big Thunder Mountain?
I thought the old town had been destoryed in the earthquake and the site had been rebuilt as part of disneyland?
The town you go through is I believe the old part of Thunder Mesa that was lost during the quake. And yes I guess it would be located behind those trees considering where Thunder Mountain is located during the ride. It has been named Phantom Canyon.
Oh ok, I think I get it now, thanks :)
I can see a Halloween Event going on here...
Actually I do wonder why they don't have a Phantom Manor themed event for Halloween...
So Thunder Mesa that we see now is in fact has been rebuilt? I thought that only a half of Thunder Mesa was gone and the other half of the old town is what we call Frontierland.
Also where Phantom Canyon is is where the the train tracks are that lead to Thunder Mesa Station, so maybe there could be a backstory for that, like the Mayor of Thunder Mesa was in the middle of connecting Thunder Mesa to the other towns in the region when the 'incident' struck and as the 'incident' was mysterious and no-one knew how it happened the Mayor continued the construction of Thunder Mesa Station and put the train tracks in front of Phantom Canyon to try and 'cover it up'.
It was rebuilt some of it after the quake, but some of the old buildings survived too; so its a mixture.
Thunder Mesa Depot used to be located somewhere else before the quake, as we go by the old station at the beginning of Phantom Canyon, they must of then rebuilt it in a different location. You even hear a ghost train going by just before you get to Ezra selling tickets... so a train might of been lost in the quake as well.
And the Ticket Ghoul is called Ezra? Like your Profile?
Yes, well... Cast Members nicknamed him Ezra... because he looks similar to the Hitchhiker Ezra in the Haunted Mansion. So most folks call him Ezra... hence the username; he's my favourite character from the ride.
Oh now I get it, never been on the Haunted Mansion!
Than i wonder if the phantom is a ghoul or a ghost? Is the phantom the ghost of Henry Ravenswood who
came to haunt his own daughter melany or is he also a ghoul who wanders the phantom canyon?
I've been on the Haunted Mansion at WDW, but it was a long time ago now. But I like to research the Mansion rides so have quite a bit of knowledge on them at least.
And as for the Phantom... well, its hard to say. I consider him a cross between a ghost and a ghoul... but as for who he actually is... its unknown. The main theories are either he is the ghost/ghoul of Henry Ravenswood, or is actually just a Phantom who in love with Melanie (which would make it more like Phantom of the Opera).
If the Phantom loves Melanie, then why would he laugh at her in sorrow? ???
Because he's succeeded in getting rid of her groom and keeping her there forever I guess? Same would actually apply if it was Henry too. The Phantom isn't very nice anyhow... that we can gather quite easily. lol
Tony Baxter had his own version of the story of phantom manor. He stated it was not an official story, but his own version of the story. He explains that in his story the bride is waiting for her groom. She waits and waits, until it's too late en she dies of sorrow. Than her groom finally shows up when it's too late, they both are dead. at the end she waves goodbye and throws the flowers. So the phantom can be the groom itself. maybe he is laughing out of happiness at the end :D :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk-8dXBLD8U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk-8dXBLD8U)
Yeah I heard of that too, but I think that's just more what he wants the story to be. Officially I'm pretty sure the Phantom isn't exactly friendly. lol
Okay just wanted to elaborate on another theory of mine concerning the Manor; I tend to think that most of the ghosts inside the Manor are a residual haunting... in other words like a tape being played over and over again... an echo of the past. This includes Melanie, as we see her story... what happened to her... because now she is actually the skeletal ghoul seen in the catacombs and cellar scene. The only exceptions to this would be Madame Leota and possibly the Organist... he does look up at the riders, suggesting he is a intelligent haunting.
But all the ghosts seen outside the Manor (the poker players and the spirits flying about... possibly the ghost train too, after all we do hear a train) is an intelligent haunting. They know you're there. Again, just another theory, by all means, do say if you have a different theory.
Only problem is Melanie making an appearance before you leave the cellar (off-ride), but to be honest... does it really sound like what Melanie would say? I do wonder if that's even her... after all she just helped you escape! Perhaps a trick by the Phantom or Madame Leota... or perhaps just added to be similar to the Mansion.
Just a question, Thunder Mesa we visit today, is it meant to be a ghost town, abandoned, or not?
Quote from: DisneyManiac on March 03, 2014, 06:44:29 PM
Just a question, Thunder Mesa we visit today, is it meant to be a ghost town, abandoned, or not?
Nope, its meant to be the actual town of Thunder Mesa in the Old West, but at a point after the Manor is 'abandoned'. I don't think the locals like to go to the Manor, so that's why it looks so dilapidated compared to the rest of the town.