Just back from a manic one day at the parks for Christmas, which was very good, and could not believe the general state of sectors of the park. We are all aware of the tremendous effort made to repair and maintain parts of the park that had fallen into neglect and I congratulate DLRP for it. The question that this raised for me was, will they keep on top of maintenance etc and the answer is an emphatic no!
Rather than bore everyone with a list I just thought I would share the state of the illumination over the main gate and here is a (fairly poor!) photo taken yesterday(//http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx319/PeteHawke/P78.jpg)
At a rough guess, I would think that over half of the bulbs were dead. We are talking about the entrance to Europes biggest tourist attraction, Virtually all of the new visitors to Disney would see this sad sight when they entered the park and that just fills me with exasperation! There are stories that Walt Disney took a daily walk around his park and balled out anyone if just one light bulb that had failed and not been replaced! He would have a field day in Paris at the moment.
What do you think? Is it just a case of money? or do the management not care as long as the visitors keep coming? Does this sight sadden you like it has me?
I don't know, but maintenance is just a nightmare, once they get all the way around the park fixing things, they have to go back to the being and start over again. DLP is open everyday of the year and so the park is bound to have off days, our favourite ride breaks down, some light bulbs fail, is it always avoidable ? I'm not making excuses for them because we all care about maintenance. I think they will fix the lights above the entrance and I hope the rides, parades and Dreams were all working smoothly and that you had a magical time.
ed-uk. i went on my own as my usual travelling companion has hit hard times! I thought the Christmas cavalcade was superb, a parade in all but name and I hope that this and the improvement at Halloween are a sign of things to come now that Glendale is making the entertainment decisions! I will have to check my photos, but I think there were more dancers in the cavalcade than "Magic on Parade".
Disney Magic on Parade was a little thin on the ground in numbers, No Fairy godmothers at the start, only two playing cards for Alice but made up for by the chattering from the Mad hatter who is defiinitely English judging by his voice. Four flying bird carriers instead of six and only four segway witches. I think its a bit unfair on casual guests that they miss out on a full parade.
I also found it difficult to find anywhere open in Frontierland for food! Cowboy cookout, Fuento del Oro and last chance salloon all closed, I ended up at Caseys Corner, mind you that was a walk in!
On the maintenance front, Molly Brown is showing a few scuffs and Scrapes and could do with the return of Mark Twain to help out!
I enjoyed my day and am very tired today!
Nearly forgot to mention the embarasment that is the Studios at Christmas. The same old trees on lamposts inside the main entrance and the illuminated items around the partners statue that looks like it came straight from one of those over decorated houses at Christmas.
My opinion is that they should forget Christmas at the Studios until they can afford to attack it with more imagination and enthusiasm and concentrate on the Main Park.
Well DLP seem to of given up on Christmas in the WDS which is a real shame, but I can't think of a good focal point for them to place a Christmas tree, the park is so small. But I hope as the park grows in the future and becomes more popular they make more of an effort at Christmas.
I would have less sympathy for DLP regarding maintenance and the lack of performers in Magic on Parade, if EuroDisney made big profits, but since they don't and lost 100,0000 Euros last year, I'm not sure things can be much better. But now that the WDC have refinanced EuroDisneys debts, maybe things will improve. After all we've been waiting for 20 years.
I'm glad you enjoyed your time there, you had a long journey for one day.
Poor old Molly Brown, she looked superb when they fixed her up last year.
It certainly is a shame. The blown bulbs in your photo may be considered little but its the little things that count. Especially as, like you say, thats the main entrance and thats where DLP want to make a brilliant impression.
The maintenance department could probably do with a bigger budget. That would be a good thing to put their new profits towards. It's clear from the 2011 refurbs that they understand the importance of good maintenance.
Quote from: "captain rocket"On the maintenance front, Molly Brown is showing a few scuffs and Scrapes and could do with the return of Mark Twain to help out!
Is the tent still there for its refurb? :)
Josh, the mark Twain is still hidden under that tent so its impossible to tell how far advanced the refurb is.
I don't agree with your comment that they understand the importance of good maintenance, they obviously don't if my photos are any evidence. What they seem to understand is letting things fall apart and then rebuilding them! Look at the Pirate ship if you need a good example of their policies. Here is another shot, this time I count 31 bulbs working and 129 not, that's one bulb in four!(//http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx319/PeteHawke/P80.jpg)
I really don't want our park to look like this!
Oh dear. Yes that saddens me too. As you say it is, after all, the entrance we are talking about, and its common knowledge that, whatever your business is, it should be the best maintained (first impressions n all that).
Unless those bulbs all happened to 'blow' at once, I dont think there is any excuse for that poor show :(
I'm afraid there is no getting away from the fact that maintainance throughout the resort is woeful, and unfortunately the decline has been very noticable in recent years. Before my first visit to DLP in 2002 I visited WDW on a regular basis for many years and never at any stage did I feel that the resort showed signs of decline, infact it was very clear that every effort was made to ensure this did not happen. Although in some cases it was clearly just cosmetic, every effort was made to keep the resort looking pristine.
Personally I would prefer investment money to be spent on keeping the resort looking the way it did back in 2002, beautiful, than spending millions on a new ride. I'm sure many would disagree with that.
My last visit was in July/August and the state of the resort was well, sad, very sad indeed :( The next time you (Members of this forum) visit have a good look around you, you will be extremely sad with what you see, believe me. DLP is still a lovely place to visit, but the rot really has set in, and it may find it very difficult to recover from. Unless they really confront the decline, no amount of sensational rides will appease me, and it would be a sad day indeed for me to consider not visiting. I could save money and visit Thorpe Park :x I can't believe I just typed that :shock: Sad indeed :(
Thorpe Park, you're not seriously suggesting that Thorpe Park provides better maintenance and themeing than DLP?
You'll never fined a show as amazing as Dreams at Thorpe Park.
Gosh that really is an awful thought! Thorpe Park over DLP. Im kinda scared to look when we go back as the park/s were in fine fettle the last time I was there (2004). I too would rather have pristine, sparkly, regularly refurbed, good old fashioned Disney quality parks than a multi million 'dollar' new ride.
Quote from: "Ravenseye"Gosh that really is an awful thought! Thorpe Park over DLP. Im kinda scared to look when we go back as the park/s were in fine fettle the last time I was there (2004). I too would rather have pristine, sparkly, regularly refurbed, good old fashioned Disney quality parks than a multi million 'dollar' new ride.
I can assure you that Thorpe Park comes no where near to DLP in what they have to offer their guests. Let's keep it real.
Most of last year was taken up by maintenance work and refurbishments in the parks and hotels at DLP, budgets were stretched. Refurbishments are probably going on all the time like with the Mark Twain still hidden in a tent. No doubt maintenance will always be an issue, more for some fans than others.
Oh yeh, believe me, i'd never choose TPark over Disney. Ive often mentioned to ppl who exclaim to me how expensive DLP is for a 'theme park', that theres no comparison whatsoever!
Quote from: "Ravenseye"Gosh that really is an awful thought! Thorpe Park over DLP. Im kinda scared to look when we go back as the park/s were in fine fettle the last time I was there (2004). I too would rather have pristine, sparkly, regularly refurbed, good old fashioned Disney quality parks than a multi million 'dollar' new ride.
Oh, I've been there my very first time in 2004, and last visit was last month, and I can tell you, that A LOT has changed since 2004, concerning the looks of the park :(
When I see my pictures from 2006, it also looked a lot better in most places then it does now.
It is kind of sad, that more then half of the light bulbs, which are attached to huge welcome signs / entrance signs, aren't working.
I'm one of those people who spot things like that too (which sometimes makes me feel kind of sad, haha), and it is true, that at least things at the main entrance should be in (almost) perfect condition, as it is the first impression you get when walking into the park.
Light bulbs, light bulbs. Well I'm sorry if you can't see any difference at DLP between 2006 and now for the better, in the hotels and theme parks after last years and this years refurbishments, all I can say is I can.
I can't say anything about the hotels, as I have never slept or been in an actual Disney hotels.
Some people are unfortunetly nit-picks, and I'm admitting I am one.
Everybody's own opinion, I think we are allowed to that :)
And no, I can't see any difference from 2004/2006 till now for the better, at least, not much.
Everything looked so much brighter back then, and the plants were all so much nicer.
I have however seen that they refurbished the pirate boat, and it did look amazing last month, comparing to 2 years ago when I was there, so yes, I do also notice the things that have been done.
I think that some of us are more tolerant than others over the state of the park, if you are an infrequent visitor you may not notice, or even be concerned over the things that us regulars get annoyed about. The facts, however, are that the maintenance of Disneyland Park is poor and the attitude always seems to be let it degenerate until it is in danger of it falling apart and then rebuild it!
It seems to me a ridiculous way to behave, if you carry out regular maintenance, things will last longer and not cost so much to put right. I wonder where the top management actually work and how often they visit the park, surely if they paid regular visits they would notice when things are falling into decline and then order that something is done about it?
I would consider myself to be a fairly regular visitor to the parks, once or twice a year I go, but i don't go as often as some of you guys. I do care as much about DLP as the next fan, and I do notice when something has been fixed.
I don't agree that things are falling into decline, or that the rot really has set in as one poster put it, especially with all the refurbishments that have been carried out over the last year and so quickly forgotten. Then DLP came up with Disney Dreams, probably the best show ever produced in a Disney theme park, or any theme park, it must have cost a fortune. As I said in a previous post when we consider that EuroDisney lost 100,0000 Euros last year, I think they do a good job, how does a company maintain standards when they lose that amount of money, management costs have been tight. Now that WDC have refinanced EuroDisney's debts, and EuroDisney no longer has to seek appovale from 65 banks before they can do anything, I have more hope for the future regarding maintenance and new rides and attractions, which are equally important to me.
Okay the park doesn't look brand new anymore like it did when it first opened, and maintenance has proved a challenge at times, but is it reasonable for us to expect that nothing should ever go wrong and break down, and not need time to fix?
However I've no problem with people pointing out maintenance issues, they've been doing exactly that for as long as I've been visiting Disney forums for over ten years now, but I come at it from a different angle.
Yeah, I agree with you on that. And by this time next year, we should probably see a difference in how EDSCA deal with service at the parks in general, thanks to the extra cash. (Unless it's
only going to be spent on their expansion plan for the WDSP, which is what worries me.)
Quote from: "captain rocket"Josh, the mark Twain is still hidden under that tent so its impossible to tell how far advanced the refurb is.
I was just asking if it was still being refurbed; not how far it is in its refurbishment. :)
Quote from: "captain rocket"I don't agree with your comment that they understand the importance of good maintenance, they obviously don't if my photos are any evidence. What they seem to understand is letting things fall apart and then rebuilding them! Look at the Pirate ship if you need a good example of their policies.
Well not the higher-ups. The executives aren't giving maintenance enough of a budget. However, there are a lot of people in the company fighting for refurbs to happen each day. Most guests are first time visitors (or people that haven't visited in over 10 years), so there's no incentive for executives to improve conditions for regular visitors that notice more things.
Quote from: "ed-uk"Thorpe Park, you're not seriously suggesting that Thorpe Park provides better maintenance and themeing than DLP?
You'll never fined a show as amazing as Dreams at Thorpe Park.
:roll: Of course i wasn't :( I was being sarcastic.............good grief :shock: I would never place Thorpe Park above DLP, quite frankly thats a ridiculous suggestion :lol:
I was making the point, and anybody who has read my posts over the years would know how much I love DLP, that things at DLP regarding maintainance are so bad now that for some one like me to consider not visiting then things must be very sad indeed :(
Thorpe park superior to DLP, heaven help me :roll:
The day we watched the tree lighting ceremony last week, the star on the top of the tree failed to light up - it really took the magic out of the whole thing. I know it's only a little thing but as we know it's the little things that create the magic.
Those photos of the bulbs made me sad :( I've seen people chatting about Fantillusion before and saying that there was an odd light bulb here or there missing, and I thought that it was sad but perhaps just one of those things, as it must be hard to keep on top of them all. But to have SO many bulbs not working at the entrance to the park is really...shoddy?
I don't see how all of those bulbs can be out so obviously and yet no care has been put into replacing them, it looks as if DLP isn't treasured, and it detracts from the magic and from the feeling you get when you see that sign. I am always so quick to defend DLP and it is my favourite place in the world, but when I see things like that it does make my heart hurt a little bit :cry:
I know what you mean Geekyjo, This was my fourth visit this year , so you can see I am a real fan and I hate the fact that my park is not treasured by those who are the current custodians! My main concern is not how I feel about this situation, but how new visitors feel about this poor approach to maintenance and apparent could'nt care less as we already have your money approach!
Shame on you Disney management!
What's happened to the MAGIC?
Quote from: "captain rocket"I know what you mean Geekyjo, This was my fourth visit this year , so you can see I am a real fan and I hate the fact that my park is not treasured by those who are the current custodians! My main concern is not how I feel about this situation, but how new visitors feel about this poor approach to maintenance and apparent could'nt care less as we already have your money approach!
Shame on you Disney management!
What's happened to the MAGIC?
So true! I suppose we are all fans already, and I will try to go back every year for as long as I can afford it - but the general public's opinions of DLP already seem to be often negative or indifferent. I sometimes try to convince people that if they actually took the time to visit, they would love it, and that it's not just WDW that is worthy of their time. But if they went for the first time and were greeted by the sight of those missing light bulbs I know they'd have a hard time seeing what I mean :(
While I agree that so many blown bulbs like that in a very prominent place give a bad impression, I think people have to accept that maintenance budgets are always going to be limited, and especially in a company that are not actually making a lot of profit. Priority 1 will be keeping the rides actually working and the money and resources will be allocated in a pecking order after that. Because having rides non-operational will keep people away, but having bulbs on a sign not working won't. And putting what money you have into new attractions IS a better business decision than putting it into the maintenance budget, because again, new attractions will bring in more people and be a better advertising subject than a "All lights working! New paint in the toilets!" campaign.....
I had a friend who worked in line maintenance for a major US airline. If a plane landed at Gatwick with a blocked fuel valve and one of the seat back videos broken, the order of priority in the repair was the video and then the fuel valve. The on board computer would direct the fuel around the valve, but the passengers would know that the video was broken and this would reflect badly on the airline.
It's the same in this case,
I did'nt mean to start a whole discussion about maintenance, I only wanted to point out that I believe priorities are wrong in this case. Whatever we say, there IS a maintenance budget and this looks dreadful to first time visitors and this item should be fixed! The number of bulbs gone is so bad that it would seem probable that they have failed over a length of time and this is poor!
My instant solution in this case would be to turn these lights off until replacements were installed, then first time visitors would not see this poor example of maintenance.
DutchBrit I do see what you mean completely :) I'm not aware of the different budgets and so on so apologies if I'm way off :oops: I think what confuses me is that in my eyes simple maintenance such as replacing light bulbs and keeping toilets clean and freshly painted should be a given, rather than an 'either-or' situation.
I am trying to think of an example...say if all the available Magicforum members go to see a show in London (a show with a lot of seats, haha). We have paid a lot for the tickets and we're really excited because we've never been before!
The show's great but some of the seats are dirty and ripped, the lights in the foyer don't seem to work properly and they flicker on and off. The sign outside advertising the show is all cracked and one of the illuminated letters is broken. We wonder why the theatre is in disrepair in parts, so we ask around and someone tells us that money is tight so most of the budget goes on paying the actors etc, and generally the quality of the show itself, and any maintenance work has to come second.
I think we would see what they mean, and we did really enjoy the show, but that wouldn't stop us from feeling a little disappointed about the state of the theatre, and some of us might not return, or might speak negatively about that particular theatre to other people...? Probably a silly example but I'm not sure.
And captain rocket I agree about just switching the lights off - I think because they're in such an obvious place keeping them switched on just screams "NEGLECT"/"WE DON'T CARE" to any new visitors. You know that phrase about how the first step to gaining respect is respecting yourself, or something like that? That is what this reminds me of...like why would people want to spend their money visiting a resort that (on first glance) looks like it isn't taken care of?
That being said I adore DLP and know that it does 'care', and I usually will not hear a bad word against it. I just think that if I went for the first time and wasn't quite as obsessed with Disney as I am, I might be a bit put off by the sight of those missing bulbs.
Quote from: "captain rocket"I had a friend who worked in line maintenance for a major US airline. If a plane landed at Gatwick with a blocked fuel valve and one of the seat back videos broken, the order of priority in the repair was the video and then the fuel valve. The on board computer would direct the fuel around the valve, but the passengers would know that the video was broken and this would reflect badly on the airline.
It's the same in this case.
Actually in this case, the keeping the rides working equates to the mending of the video and not mending the valve is the bulbs. On a long flight the lack of video would cause a lot of complaints, just as non-working rides cause complaint at Disneyland, but bulbs not working would be the same as a non-working valve - most people would never notice.
QuoteI did'nt mean to start a whole discussion about maintenance, I only wanted to point out that I believe priorities are wrong in this case. Whatever we say, there IS a maintenance budget and this looks dreadful to first time visitors and this item should be fixed!
I don't think you can say this unless you know what the priorities
are. And I'd still say that there are quite a lot of things I'd put above broken bulbs if I was in charge of the maintenance schedule. We don't know what else was on the list on the day you saw this problem. Nor can we be sure how long the bulbs were broken: it may be that they were fixed the very next day. There are probably maintenance windows for this sort of thing, say, has to be fixed in 3 days or something like that, maybe, depending on the agreed service levels and available resources. No company these days has the money or staff to respond to every problem at the very moment it happens!
Quote from: "DutchBrit"There are probably maintenance windows for this sort of thing, say, has to be fixed in 3 days or something like that, maybe, depending on the agreed service levels and available resources. No company these days has the money or staff to respond to every problem at the very moment it happens!
I agree, but what shocked me was the fact that there were so many bulbs missing (e.g. 129 missing on picture 2 I think?) and I doubt that would have happened over the space of a day or two, it looks like it has happened over the space of weeks or months and has been neglected.
Quote from: "geekyjo"I agree, but what shocked me was the fact that there were so many bulbs missing (e.g. 129 missing on picture 2 I think?) and I doubt that would have happened over the space of a day or two, it looks like it has happened over the space of weeks or months and has been neglected.
OK, I'm not an electrician, but I can imagine that there can be faults that cause bulbs to blow and that fixing those faults is more complicated than putting in a new bulb. In these cases we can't tell how long there has been a problem or what that problem is or what needs to be done to fix it.
We know Disneyland is struggling with budgets. This means some things won't get fixed very quickly, and those things that don't impact safety or attractions will be the last things they'll get round to. It's sad but I can't see it as a surprise, and without seeing what their maintence schedule is and what resources they have, I don't think we can say if they are doing things wrong or not.
You put up a spirited defence of Disney, Dutchbrit, You say" I don't think we can say if they are doing things wrong or not"
Well, yes I can, if my perception is that something is wrong, I can certainly say they are doing something wrong in my opinion! I am one of the end users after all!
I don't think I will be able to win you around in this discussion, and you certainly have not suggested anything that changes my opinion! Good discussion!
Quote from: "captain rocket"You put up a spirited defence of Disney, Dutchbrit, You say" I don't think we can say if they are doing things wrong or not"
Well, yes I can, if my perception is that something is wrong, I can certainly say they are doing something wrong in my opinion! I am one of the end users after all!
You can say it, naturally, but it is not an informed opinion because you don't have all of the facts. I just don't think you can make a statemtent like "Disney's priorities are wrong!" when you don't know the details of how they set the priorities and how they meet them.
Who knows, if you were in charge, you might also find that you had to put other things above fixing light bulbs.
Quote from: "DutchBrit"Quote from: "captain rocket"You put up a spirited defence of Disney, Dutchbrit, You say" I don't think we can say if they are doing things wrong or not"
Well, yes I can, if my perception is that something is wrong, I can certainly say they are doing something wrong in my opinion! I am one of the end users after all!
You can say it, naturally, but it is not an informed opinion because you don't have all of the facts. I just don't think you can make a statemtent like "Disney's priorities are wrong!" when you don't know the details of how they set the priorities and how they meet them.
Who knows, if you were in charge, you might also find that you had to put other things above fixing light bulbs.
I have to admit DutchBrit I'm intrigued by your argument :) Obviously all companies set priorites, normally set by costs and customer demands, my own company certainly does, and believe me most others do as well. When a customer looks at the operations of a company the customer commonly will make judgements, not least how they perceive the priorities of that company. Few customers are on the boards of these companies, but they make judgements, rightly or wrongly, about how they see a company is progressing.
I make judgements all the time about all sorts of things, it doesn't mean to say I sit on the board of every company in the UK and beyond and know all their priorities, no, I make a judgement, on how I see a particular companies priorities :) A judgment, and we make judgements every single day.
I and others obviously don't sit on the board of DLP, but seeing how they operate allows me to make an educated guess regarding their priorities.
And my educated guess is that maintenance is low on their priorities, well below Dreams, 'Ratty' etc :)
I personally think that's a mistake, 'Dreams' has been an unbelievable success, but I would have prefered them to set maintenance as a priority over any new ride, for the time being that is :o
That's my judgement on their priorities, based on what I see, have seen and read ;)
To me parts of the resort are in desperate need of repair, but I don't believe DLP are of the same opinion.
So to me, the priorities of the DLP board are obvious, and I don't have to be on the board to know what they are, I can see them with my own eyes :)
Quote from: "Epcot_Boy"And my educated guess is that maintenance is low on their priorities, well below Dreams, 'Ratty' etc :)
I personally think that's a mistake, 'Dreams' has been an unbelievable success, but I would have prefered them to set maintenance as a priority over any new ride, for the time being that is :o
That would be my guess too, but I disagree that those priorities are wrong. I very much doubt that any company can afford not bring in new custom. And while providing a perfectly maintained park may please some, providing new attractions/shows will bring in many more. As far as business goes, there really isn't any choice.
If I remember correctly the management signed a multi-year contract with a supplier of LED lighting equipment that is starting around now. Maybe this is just an unfortunate transitioning moment?
Quote from: "Deff"If I remember correctly the management signed a multi-year contract with a supplier of LED lighting equipment that is starting around now. Maybe this is just an unfortunate transitioning moment?
OSRAM just had a big photo day across there as a new partner, OSRAM make bulbs, lots of bulbs. :D
It's not just Disneyland Park that requires maintenance. like the path that was repaved in Fantasyland last year. EuroDisney also has 7 hotels to maintain, and they're under refurbishment at the moment. Also the esplanade between the parks which was repaved in the last year, The new Ratatouille ride is under construction in the WDS. DLP opened The World of Disney Store and expanded Disney Village, Dreams premiered. The light bulbs above the entrance to Disneyland Park are just the tip of the iceberg, but I agree it would be nice to have them working. However, I don't agree that DLP has gone into decline and that the rot really has set in, especially if we look at the bigger picture.
EuroDisney's number one priority over the years has been to pay back their debts to the banks and meet their covenants. Some fans skate over it or sweep it under the carpet, and considering EuroDisney has faced bankrupcy twice and has gone through some painful restructuring of their debt, I'm surprised at this. Now that the WDC has refinanced EuroDisney's debts at a more favourable rate of interest and the banks are now out of the picture, the company should find it easier moving forward hopefully to long term profitability. But maintenance won't be their only priority I'm sure, the striking CMs blocking the parade route and ruining the magic in search of a bigger pay rise will make sure of that.
Just a quick update... As of early this morning.......
(//http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a594/Benjamin_Phelps/IMG_0931_zpsd8b9cf76.jpg)
(//http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a594/Benjamin_Phelps/IMG_0926_zpsbf907438.jpg)
Sorry about the poor quality of my pictures it was taken on my rubbish Phone!!
Plus I noticed a lot more lights in Fantasia Gardens were working and more in Central Plaza so I think bit by bit they are getting round to fixing them all!!
Thank God! Took them long enough, it felt like the person in charge of lighting in the parks had been off sick for quite a while :lol: Don't think I've ever seen (in person or photo) every light work on those marquees :| before now
I read that DLP have recently signed a partnership deal with Osram the bulb manufactuer so maybe this is the reason for the bulbs being replaced and perhaps the poor matainance was while the deal was being done and a suitible long life bulb developed to meet new EC regualations and maintain the theming requirements.
Not saying this is the case but I am convinced that often when we feel is poor show has sound business thinking behind it. Not always but often.
That sounds about right. All the bulbs under main street station and in the arcades have changed from old fashioned ones with a long curly filament to being modern bright ones. It's not thematically pleasing but they will definitely last longer :-k
You say that there meant to be longer lasting, but I saw a bulb out in the bottom left of the ovel on the Park Disneyland Sign this evening...
Every night we have come out the park the last 6 days it hasent been on don't no why?