http://business.time.com/2012/08/24/exc (http://business.time.com/2012/08/24/exc%22%20target=%22_blank%22%20rel=%22nofollow) ... and-paris/
I guess that would be a good idea, but isn't there a French law that prohibits foreign majority ownership in French companies?
What would happen to the debts? TWDC would only buy the shares and I guess they are starting with the ones owned by Prince Alwaleed, banks and other institutions. The ones from shareholders like us aren't a problem, because they are a very small part. Minority shareholders can be forced by law to accept an offer. Just because TWDC would own the resort, doesn't mean the future will be better. They still have to repay the debts and they would still not make enough money. Only the ownership is changed, but not the financial situation. TWDC already has the last word in decisions and due to the debts, banks would still have to agree on new projects. Although I think it would be a good idea, I can't see any advantage. Maybe investments from TWDC would be easier, since they don't have to use credit lines for that. So let's wait and see.
It's encouraging that they are even considering it I think. Operating profits and a solid play to pay down debts could mean TWDC see owning the park as a way to finally get the payback that would make investment worthwhile. It could become a real turning point. I'm probably wrong, but I think the French law issue relates to debt rather than ownership, is it something to do with TWDC can't waive the debt to another company?
I'd miss my shareholders club membership if EuroDisney went, and I wouldn't feel apart of DLP in the same way, but that's a small mater in the bigger picture I suppose. And what would we ended getting for the shares, possibly not much?
Interesting. I'm trying to summon a wise Spirit on another plane.
Q
The possible advantages is that the expansion of the park will be done BY the WD company, not from the "budget".
Paris wouldn't have to buy things such as costumes, floats from other parks and other royalties for music and stuff.
Honestly I think it's good news!
But bad for those with shares. :?
Quote from: "alternativerock123"The possible advantages is that the expansion of the park will be done BY the WD company, not from the "budget".
Paris wouldn't have to buy things such as costumes, floats from other parks and other royalties for music and stuff.
I thought that too, but when TWDC gains complete ownership, they also get the debts. Honestly I doubt that the banks would be fine with the fact that Disney is investing in the resort, while Disney isn't repaying the debts. There are still 2 billion Euros to repay and I'm sure TWDC will not do that. They just spent a billon on DCA and now they are heavily investing in Shanghai. I'm still surprised that they will use 500mio to buy out ED SCA. So I guess TWDC would still repay the debts with the money DLP makes.
Let's hope it's true, just because for a safer future for the resort.
Quote from: "alternativerock123"But bad for those with shares. :?
Why? If there's really a buyout the shares are goin to increase in value. Actually, it's possible that just talking about it can make them rise.
edit: user fultimate on micechat posted this
Quote(//http://micechat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23384&d=1345818433)
So, the shares are already reactiong to the [strike:3ev3r9l3]news[/strike:3ev3r9l3] rumour.
Q
Could somebody explain to me why Disney didn't originally get full ownership? I understand that Disney had good experiences with this kind of a model in Tokyo, but I'm sketchy on the details.
Quote from: isaniCould somebody explain to me why Disney didn't originally get full ownership? I understand that Disney had good experiences with this kind of a model in Tokyo, but I'm sketchy on the details.[/quot
Disney didn't want full ownership. WDC set up EuroDisney in which it is a major shareholder with the agreement of the French goverment to run the resort, and sold shares in Europe to help finance the project.
In Tokyo the resort is owned by the OLC who pay Disney management fees and royalties. Originaly Disney did own shares in OLC, but I believe that they had to sell them in the early 1980s to help fight off a hostille take over bid.
Quote from: "|Q|"Quote from: "alternativerock123"But bad for those with shares. :?
Why? If there's really a buyout the shares are goin to increase in value. Actually, it's possible that just talking about it can make them rise.
edit: user fultimate on micechat posted this
Quote(//http://micechat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23384&d=1345818433)
So, the shares are already reactiong to the [strike:3960hhyi]news[/strike:3960hhyi] rumour.
Q
Oh... that's good then. I thought I saw people say that the shares would go. Not sure why, but I must have misread the info.
But still, that's better. lol
This is the best news we've had in a while. We'd be just like DL and WDW, run by the WD Parks and Resorts division. No one would be able to get in the way of what TWDC wants (which would mostly be a good thing). No one would be able to tell the management to concentrate on cheap little additions each year instead of expanding the resort.
Quote from: "dagobert"I thought that too, but when TWDC gains complete ownership, they also get the debts. Honestly I doubt that the banks would be fine with the fact that Disney is investing in the resort, while Disney isn't repaying the debts. There are still 2 billion Euros to repay and I'm sure TWDC will not do that. They just spent a billon on DCA and now they are heavily investing in Shanghai. I'm still surprised that they will use 500mio to buy out ED SCA. So I guess TWDC would still repay the debts with the money DLP makes.
But I thought most of the debts were being paid
to TWDC. So wouldn't they just... go away? Or are most of the debts to third-parties?
Quote from: "Josh"This is the best news we've had in a while. We'd be just like DL and WDW, run by the WD Parks and Resorts division. No one would be able to get in the way of what TWDC wants (which would mostly be a good thing). No one would be able to tell the management to concentrate on cheap little additions each year instead of expanding the resort.
I don't think thay're goin to acquire the totality of it, not sure that is even possible. Just a large chunk.
Quote from: "Josh"But I thought most of the debts were being paid to TWDC. So wouldn't they just... go away? Or are most of the debts to third-parties?
The debts are with banks.
Q
The debts are with banks and hedge funds, i read somewhere that 50 banks are involved. We shouldn't get carried away here because it might never happen and WDC wont buy the company out unless it's to their great advantage, I should think. That's if it's really on the table. if the shares go up on the rumour, so much the better.
Does this mean DisneyLand Paris will closed.
Quote from: "Pluto2011Pluto"Does this mean DisneyLand Paris will closed.
No it doesn't.
Quote from: "ed-uk"Quote from: "Pluto2011Pluto"Does this mean DisneyLand Paris will closed.
No it doesn't.
OH THANKS YOU ED-UK . :thumbs:
I'M GALD THAT THE THEME PARK WILL REMAIN OPEN SINCE I HOPE TO COME TO DLRP NEXT MONTH.
The ownership of the resort is largely irrelevant. The debt burden is very high and is being whittled down. Why should TWDC take on a €1.8billion debt when the holding company can barely service it as it is.
TWDC will probably increase finance and continue waiving royalties until the indebtedness is significantly reduced over a four year period.
At the moment TWDC will begin to make money without responsibility in the next 6 or seven years.
The advantage of ownership for TWDC is reducing management over heads and adnexal expenses. They already manage the central booking and artistic areas.
I can see this happening, but not for some time.
OK. So as guests, we wouldn't see much of a difference if this happened?
We would see no difference as guests at all. The resort is in no more danger of closing now than it was in 1994, 1997 or 2004.
Put simply it is TWDC interests for EURO DISNEY SCA to be the fall guy if anything happens. If it defaults the companies under the control of Euro Disney SCA will go bankrupt, the holders of the debts (hedge funds, banks, France) will take ownership of the assets. They would require someone to run those assets and the ONLY organisation with the legal rights to use the copyrighted features of DLP is TWDC.
Win/win for The Walt Disney Company
I think everyone at Disney is sick at seeing how their European Disneyland is falling apart in other people's hands. This is their chance to save the park, pay the debts (they have the money!) and do things the Disney way. I hope this happens very soon.
Quote from: "ford prefect"We would see no difference as guests at all. The resort is in no more danger of closing now than it was in 1994, 1997 or 2004.
I meant more in terms of expansion projects and improvements. Are they more likely to fund that when they own most of the shares? :)
EDIT: It looks like Alain answered my question. XD
Quote from: "Disney and More"http://disneyandmore.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/breaking-news-walt-disney-company.html
And what does all this means for DLP fans? Well, it means that "a buyout would be followed by increased investment in the resort aimed at paying down the debt more quickly and increasing the number of attractions".
I've been saying since a long time that DLP needed a "Marshall plan" and may be it's finally coming now, although in a different way than i had expected. If the WDC really do this buyout it might resolve not only DLP debt problem but also, as they will be totally in charge of DLP parks just like they are at Disneyland Anaheim or WDW, that they will try to resolve DLP problem for once and for all and the example of California Adventure just prove decently that when they want to do it, they can do it.
This seems to coincide with some rumours of an imminent "Extreme Makeover" project for the Walt Disney Studios park.
Anyway, for DLP fans, this should be a great "rumour".
i don't know what will happen. but I can't imagine an imminent, extreme makeover of the WDS coming down the line any time soon, if ever, and if a buyout is such a great idea why haven't we heard of it before? If it's based on the value of the shares, they've been a lot lower than they are now.
An interesting point. An irresponsible comment can (and has) cause(d) the share price to leap, making it more expensive for TWDC to buy them.
TWDC has a history of silence in these matters and it is surprising they would allow this to leak, unless they need the price to rise.
They would usually set up a purchasing company to surreptitiously buy the shares/property.
It strikes me this is more of a speculative article posing as news.
In the Times article it says Disney aren't certain to make a bid for the company, to make sure that their backs are covered if it doesn't.
Seven years ago Comcast put in a bid to buyout the WDC and that bid failed, some news papers were convinced it would happen. Comcast went on to buy Universdal.
Quote from: "Aladar"I think everyone at Disney is sick at seeing how their European Disneyland is falling apart in other people's hands. This is their chance to save the park, pay the debts (they have the money!) and do things the Disney way. I hope this happens very soon.
Couldn't agree more, think the dlp is being run into the ground, when you look at how the haunted mansion in wdw has been maintained and improved to the way Phantom Manor has been disgustingly been allowed to date and fall to bits proves this point.
Sure I read the bob Iger had a plan to put right what Eisner got wrong, he's done it with the movie side brought Pixar on board, sorted out DCA, so that leaves Dlp, I read somewhere that the debt was to do with the amount of hotels Eisner wanted in the first place.
Hope this is true as the entertainment done by WDC is stunning like dreams, whilst the entertainment by eurodisney ie the magic everywhere is cheap, tackly and lazy (ie the music just repeating!)
Fingers crossed!
It's funny. The WDW fans always complain at how poor their maintenance is (due to their odd budgeting and management structure), but we dream of having maintenance as good as WDW. XD
Fans just like to complain, at least some fans do, it doesn't make much difference what Disney do (until Cars Land), if it doesn't look like DisneySea or The Wizarding World Of Harry Potter.
Visited in 2010 to WDW and noticed one plasma screen not working at carousel of progress in the whole 3 week holiday, noticed a hell of a lot at dlp in June 2012. I don't normally complain re Disney, in fact I more often than not wear my rose tinted glass, but dlp standards have gone down, and that one thing that has always brought me back to disney in the past 25 years is the quaility of the attractions. I don't feel i'm compaining about nothing as whilst wizarding world is excellent I am not a fan that has complained about toy story play land.
I visited DLP for the first time this year and compared to WDW, its in fine shape. The park was lovely and the studios aren't that bad, I quite liked them!
WDW isn't at that much of a higher standard than DLP, the bus service at DLP is fantastic, the village is pretty cool too, the parks rides work well and the staff seemed pleasant enough. I hate parades so couldn't comment. The only thing missing was the night time entertainment, but now it has dreams, which really seems to kick WDW in the teeth.
I'll be back to DLP this November, I enjoyed it. Defo didn't feel I was in any less magic :)
It's funny how we start off by discussing the WD Company buyout of DLP, but in the end we always come back to the rides, shows and maintenance. :D
In the past I read multiple rumors that TWDC wanted to invest in Paris. To me it actually makes sense that they want to acquire more ownership in the park at this moment. It is clear that the parks are is profitable, EDSCA is only suffering from its debt, which should be better in the next 6-12 years. Until that time, it is very hard for EDSCA to invest in the parks, and TWDC aren't really seeing a lot of profit from the parks because they regularly wave the royalty fees. If TWDC would just loan the money to EDSCA or keep waving fees, they only get little return on investment, since other shareholders will also benefit through dividends. And once EDSCA becomes profitable share prices will certainly go up. So by increasing their stake in the EDSCA, TWDC can invest in the park at a faster rate and reap the full profits for themselves once the parks debts are cleared. Obviously there are some disadvantages for TWDC, one of them as mentioned earlier here, is that they would carry full responsibility, so if things take a turn for the worse they stand to lose a lot of money.
This is just my theory and personal opinion thoo, so who knows what will happen in the future. But in my view these rumors are just another confirmation that fans don't need to worry about the future of DLRP, cause while the company will most likely continue to struggle for another few years, things will most likely get better in about 6 years. And if they don't TWDC doesn't seem keen on abandoning DLRP anyway.
Quote from: "ford prefect"We would see no difference as guests at all. The resort is in no more danger of closing now than it was in 1994, 1997 or 2004.
Don't want to sound too negative about this, but are you completely sure about that?
Are DLP definitely honouring all the terms of their credit lines/debt with the banks? I'm just wondering if there is a bank with debt in DLP which is itself in a situation where it needs to clear down that debt urgently and so may be forcing TWDC's hand in this.
In those previous years you mention the economy was a whole lot different and so the banks and other creditors may have been more tolerant previously.
Another alternative would be that maybe its TWDC playing hardball and it may be them who call in the debt - as we know DLP havent been honouring their terms. Could TWDC be about to force DLP into bankruptcy before buying them out?
I can't imagine it would be good for publicity, though, if they try to make the company bankrupt. I would understand if it was something else like the recent OnLive acquisition, but they'd never recover if press reported "Disneyland Paris is bankrupt."
Just a few days ago, Alain entitled as "Breaking news" this rumour on his blog disneyandmore.
Quote from: "Josh"I can't imagine it would be good for publicity, though, if they try to make the company bankrupt. I would understand if it was something else like the recent OnLive acquisition, but they'd never recover if press reported "Disneyland Paris is bankrupt."
I agree it would definitely be damaging initially, however I dont agree that they'd never recover.
The question is, would that damage be any greater than that of the current level of debt?
I dont know a whole lot about how bankruptcy works in France, but in the UK these days it seems like its used as a far too easy way to write off debt and then carry on as normal after being "rescued". Usually those who are then back running the company are the same people who were there before the bankruptcy. Is the same thing possible or going on lots in France currently?
Well I welcome this news/rumour. Hopefully it will mean that they can start to get the resort moving forward again and bring some much needed investment in.
I would guess that if it does happen (and that's still a big if right now) we probably won't see much change for some time. Although having said that, they are in a unique position in that they know what's going on at the resort and what needs doing, so its not as if we have to wait for long winded fiscal studies and such to be completed before things get done.
Fingers crossed.
As you say it's a big if, and I don't think it will happen. I don't think the WDC will be allowed to buyout EuroDisney. EuroDisney is part of the master agreement between the WDC and the French goverment. Not only does it run the resort, it's also responsible for developing the area, Val d' Europe and Village Nature etc. It's hard to see why the French goverment would be happy to hand that over to an American company in Burbank. I don't know much about the master agreement, but that's what I've learnt so far.
The question is would it be worth buying shares at the moment ?
Sadly I didn't have the money last month after payday as I wanted to use Salon Mickey now they are too expensive just for that perk!!
if the shares are too expensive for you now you're better of waiting. I think the shares will go back down, but I couldn't possibly say for sure or advice you where the shares will go from here.
They've almost doubled in price since Friday, I'm sure that as soon as the rumours of the buyout calm down, prices will go back to their usual low...
^That sounds about right. And probably that's the right time for the Mouse to sign on the dotted line. :lol:
I tell you what, I'd love to see what's happening in WDI right now. Assuming that they have been tasked to draw up a master plan for the next decade based on full ownership.
What DLP buyout by WDC Could Mean for DLP Future
Interesting article on Disneyandmore.
Here it is (//http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com.es/2012/08/what-dlp-buyout-by-wdc-could-mean-for.html)
Thanks for posting, but i'm still sceptical about this buyout rumour in Time Magazine. I doubt there's a marshall plan for WDS, it would be too risky just building up even more huge debts to add to the rest. It's a nice blog, and it comes with the longest wish list ever all based on one article in Time Magazine, and even in that they say the buyout isn't certain to happen, the biggest get out clause ever. Anyway we'll see. EuroDisney have plans for the future, too including a decision on a 3rd park by 2030, if market conditions allow, the company couldn't have signed up to that without the blessing of the WDC.
I wish DLP a great big beautiful tomorrow, too.
Quote from: "ed-uk"Thanks for posting, but i'm still sceptical about this buyout rumour in the Times.
Ed - not that it makes much difference, but it wasn't the Times, it was US TIME magazine - http://business.time.com/2012/08/24/exc ... and-paris/ (http://business.time.com/2012/08/24/exclusive-walt-disney-co-considers-buyout-of-struggling-disneyland-paris/%22%20target=%22_blank%22%20rel=%22nofollow)
Regards
Iain
Thanks, I have corrected my post. I knew I hadn't read it in my Times newspaper.
This could only be good news for DLP because it would suggest Disney want more control over the park.
The idea of Disney forcing DLP into bankruptcy is crazy, they would never allow their most valuable asset, their brand, to take such a massive hit.
If anything, Disney might be considering stepping in because they fear the banks will lose faith in the EuroDisney company.
I don't think taking on the debt would worry Disney too much, bear in mind they had $3.2bn in CASH at the end of the last financial year; they could buy DLP and wipe out its debts using their cash reserves alone if they chose to.
For the banks it would be good news because the debts would be serviced on time by a $90bn company, rather than risking missed or late payments.
The park wouldn't be so constrained by financial difficulties, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have a budget, Disney wouldn't just throw money around unless they were pretty sure of a return.
Overall, for guests I think it can only be good news.
Quote from: "ed-uk"As you say it's a big if, and I don't think it will happen. I don't think the WDC will be allowed to buyout EuroDisney. EuroDisney is part of the master agreement between the WDC and the French goverment. Not only does it run the resort, it's also responsible for developing the area, Val d' Europe and Village Nature etc. It's hard to see why the French goverment would be happy to hand that over to an American company in Burbank. I don't know much about the master agreement, but that's what I've learnt so far.
Completely irrelevant these days, the French government have a fragile economy, more so than the UK or Germany and risks like DLP open them up to media/public outcry's, especially when they can make a quick return by selling the park but keeping a small caveat that the jobs in France need protected as do the suppliers, thus ensuring the economic benefits of DLP are still maximised to what they can get.
DLP is worth more than the parks to the government.
Quote from: "Trekkie101"Quote from: "ed-uk"As you say it's a big if, and I don't think it will happen. I don't think the WDC will be allowed to buyout EuroDisney. EuroDisney is part of the master agreement between the WDC and the French goverment. Not only does it run the resort, it's also responsible for developing the area, Val d' Europe and Village Nature etc. It's hard to see why the French goverment would be happy to hand that over to an American company in Burbank. I don't know much about the master agreement, but that's what I've learnt so far.
Completely irrelevant these days, the French government have a fragile economy, more so than the UK or Germany and risks like DLP open them up to media/public outcry's, especially when they can make a quick return by selling the park but keeping a small caveat that the jobs in France need protected as do the suppliers, thus ensuring the economic benefits of DLP are still maximised to what they can get.
DLP is worth more than the parks to the government.
The French goverment can't make a quick return by selling the park, they don't own it.
They can sell their interest/investment in it though.
It's not state owned, I don't know if the French goverment own any shares, as far as I know they don't. They couldn't sell any part of EuroDisney. Shareholders at a general meeting would have to agree to that. I think that there could be a political dimension to this. The French goverment wanted a French company to run the resort with the agreement of the WDC, and EuroDisney has also been responsible for developing the area with other parties, how is that irrelevant? EuroDisney make money from land development projects like Val d Europe, which in turn have created more jobs and investment.
//http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com.es/2012/09/the-walt-disney-company-re-finance.html
Quote from: "Lorum"//http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com.es/2012/09/the-walt-disney-company-re-finance.html
Please, don't just post links as a reply. A few words about what you're referring to is appreciated. :thumbs:
To discuss the refinancing of the Euro Disney debts, please use this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14287 (https://forum.dlpguide.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14287%22%20target=%22_blank%22%20rel=%22nofollow)
:D