During the weekend of 2 and 3 April the Disney Magical Moments Festival was launched for the press and a group of fan website owners got invited as well. I was among one of them (Anthony unfortunately couldn't join us), so it was a group of webmasters and moderators from France, Spain and Belgium. Among them were people from Disney Gazette, Disney Central Plaza, Disney Magic Interactive, Designing Disney Blog, DLRP.mforos and magicforum.
At 2 pm we were expected at Salon Mickey for a special presentation by Emanuel Lenormand and Christophe Leclercq, both show directors for DMMF, about the new entertainment offerings this year. It later turned into a general entertainment Q&A.
First the guys introduced themselves. Emanuel worked in the early '90s for Walt Disney World and Euro Disney, where he became a Dance Captain. Early 2000 he was promoted to show director and wrote and directed quite a few well known DLP productions like Cinéfolies, Starring Cruella Devil, the Disney Villains Halloween Showtime and last year's Disney Showtime Spectacular.
Christophe Leclercq worked as a dancer at the Moulin rouge when he applied for a job at the soon-to-open Disneyland Paris. Unlike Emanuel, he didn't do parades but most of the early shows like C'est Magique and the Videopolis production: Beauty and the Beast. He later became a show director and was responsible for most of the old pre-parades (Lion King, Hercules, ...) and short lived Imaginations Parade. He was also the director for several fireworks shows: Wishes, Enchanted Fireworks, ...
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Parade and show design
- Christophe roughly explained how a parade or show is born. The show director assembles a team of several DLP departments, like mechanics, electricians, costumers, etc. From that stage a script is written, along with the initial concept for the music. The script should be able to be described in 5 sentences according to Christophe. A producer then oversees the production budget and does not involve the show director in theearly stages, because it would interfere with the creativity.
Music recycling
- Music is the one of the most expensive parts of a show. That's why a cooperation between the different Disney resorts around the world was set up, so music could be exchanged, as well as ideas for shows and parades.
- Emanuel, who directed It's Dance Time in Discoveryland, said the Japanese team loved that show and was looking into bringing it to Tokyo Disneyland.
Halloween
- Someone asked if Mother Gethel would be introduced in this year's Halloween show, but Emanuel declined, saying although she's a great character in the movie, she wouldn't fit in the show.
-There are plans to replace Frollo by a more "interesting villain".
- Mickey's Magical Celebration will remain unchanged.
Christmas
- Mickey's Magical Celebration will be performed, but with a special ending (assuming this will be the Castle Lighting).
Tarzan La Rencontre
- New, young acrobats, more daring.
- Show has been tweaked.
Disney Characters
- Christophe explained why they opted for a Genie face character. A test was done with the normal Genie, but he didn't fit in with the other 2 face characters: Merlin and Fairy God Mother.
- The idea for Hook as a face character comes from Disneyland's Fantasmic.
- It takes 2 hours to put the make up on for the Genie.
- Someone asked if the talking Mickey would ever make it to Paris, but both guys declined because the current technology is very expensive and fragile.
- The Angel character will still show up in the parks during special events.
- All the characters originate from Florida and are very expensive. That's why they usually adopt them at the same time as the other parks to force the cost down.
The stages
- There are currently no plans to remove Central Plaza stage.
- No shows planned for Festival Stage and Castle Stage.
- The lampposts on Central Plaza are staying too as they are part of the park's story.
- Emanuel explained how they had an argument with the horticulture department about the hub's magnolia trees because they obstructed the view of the stage. In the end 3 of the 4 trees got sick, so they were removed none the less.
Seasonal entertainment
- Kids' Carnival and the Easter season will not return. Kids' Carnival had low guest feedback and it rained during most of the days it was on.
- Although they both love the small events like Easter, they have to make decisions that will suit the budgets and guest expectations.
Videopolis
- They explained the Videopolis was a difficult situation, because the stage is located in a restaurant, the Food department has a saying about it as well.
- A new show will be performed on the stage next year, but it won't be The Legend of the Lion King.
The Enchanted Fireworks
- Will be performed for the last time this year.
- New type of show next year.
The Lucky Nugget Saloon
- Emanuel would love to bring a new show to the Lucky Nugget stage, but just like Videopolis, it has to involve the Food department who're not too willing to have a show in there.
- He also said each year it's brought up during a meeting, but gets turned down immediately.
Cinéfolies
- Cinéfolies is not coming back.
Cinémagique and Animagique
- The stages over at the Studios were quickly discussed. Christophe said nothing is planned to replace Cinémagique, but he did say it would be a great venue to do a big show because it's an amazing theatre.
- When some mention Animagique being replace by Philharmagic, Emanuel's face turned red and explained how much he loves the show and it's possibly one of the ideas that's on the table.
And then one hour later our Q&A came to end. It was really great to see how open and relaxed both Christophe and Emanuel were with our questions. The people over at Corporate Communications who arranged this meeting did a really great job taking care of us all, so a big THANK YOU for the invite! Let's hope the next fan event will be even bigger and involve even more fans from all over Europe.
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No view of returning the music acts to Main Street then I assume. Is Kat still with entertainment? I must confess, I feel very let down by the offering this year across the board, and given these guys experiences, that is even more suprising.
Shame Cinefolies are gone, I really used to enjoy them.
all the product of people loving the rubberheads I suppose (and budget issues too).
How did it work in the early days of DLRP to have shows in the restaurants?
In my opinion the food department shouldn't be involved anywhere except for food, because that's really bad in Paris. Disney should cut their power or replace the managers and then they should concentrate to improve the food quality. It works in all other Disney parks to have shows in restaurants, except, what a surprise, in Paris.
What lamposts on Central Plaza are you talking about? I didn't expect that the stage will be removed, nevertheless it still ruins the view on the castle.
I'm glad to hear that there are no plans to replace Cinemagique, one of the best Disney attractions. I also like Animagique and I'm happy that it will stay for at least a few years.
I have to admit, I'm a bit excited that a new stage show will come to Videopolis. I don't know how elaborate shows like "The Golden Mickeys" in HKDL and on DCL are, but I can imagine that the new show will be based on an existing show to cut the costs. Didn't Disney bring a Toy Story Musical to the new Disney ship?
Quote from: "dagobert"How did it work in the early days of DLRP to have shows in the restaurants?
In my opinion the food department shouldn't be involved anywhere except for food, because that's really bad in Paris. Disney should cut their power or replace the managers and then they should concentrate to improve the food quality. It works in all other Disney parks to have shows in restaurants, except, what a surprise, in Paris.
Hmmm, this one is difficult. Disney is a different beast these days. Videopolis has hardly changed since opening day (but one problem they have always had is people clogging tables when the shows are on and not buying food, and people not buying food for fear of not getting a table), but the Lucky Nugget was a snack bar before, not a full blown restaurant. But thanks to the advent of SAP and new Cost Centre management systems implemented a little over 10 years ago, food and beverage are king, not just at DLP, but all Disney resorts. They have had similar problems in Ca, WDW, TDL and HKDL too. Unless the CEO or park president intervenes, profit generators lik F&B will always beat show. It is not the Walt way, but it is sadly the modern Disney way.
A real shame.
Thanks Dave!
Lucky Nugget Saloon was a snack bar in the early days? What did the rstaurant offer and why did Disney turn it into a buffet restaurant while the Explorer's Club restaurant was turned into a fast food restaurant (Colonel Hati)? It would have made more sense to use the bigger building for a buffet. But the best would have been, if Disney would have kept the Explorer's Club.
Quote from: "dagobert"I have to admit, I'm a bit excited that a new stage show will come to Videopolis. I don't know how elaborate shows like "The Golden Mickeys" in HKDL and on DCL are, but I can imagine that the new show will be based on an existing show to cut the costs. Didn't Disney bring a Toy Story Musical to the new Disney ship?
There are lots of existing shows they could port in from other Disney locales. For example, the Finding Nemo Show is very good, though expensive due to the puppets and live singers. Also the Aladdin Show at DCA (Disney's finest theme park show ever IMHO), but the problem with these is the reliance on language (though they tried to get around that in the Lion King Show with different timings).
There is the Villains Show, Golden Mickeys, Cinderella 2 type show and others from the cruises as well.
The Finding Nemo Musical at DAK was great and we enjoyed it a lot. We haven't seen many other Disney stage shows, but Finding Nemo was definately the best one, followed by The Lion King show in Paris. We didn't like the Lion King show at DAK very much, we even liked the Beauty and the Beast show at DHS better.
Quote from: "dagobert"Thanks Dave!
Lucky Nugget Saloon was a snack bar in the early days? What did the rstaurant offer and why did Disney turn it into a buffet restaurant while the Explorer's Club restaurant was turned into a fast food restaurant (Colonel Hati)? It would have made more sense to use the bigger building for a buffet. But the best would have been, if Disney would have kept the Explorer's Club.
Oh, don't get me started on this one. Yes, up until about 2000, the Lucky Nugget was a snack bar where you could get a drink and a prezel, or corn chips and salsa, I think they did hot dogs and sandwiches too. But the focus was on the stage. In 1992 for the first few years, they did the full review show with can can dancers, singers, and stunt fights. It was excellent. But this was a time before toons were everywhere, and the only buffets on site could be found in the DLH, Plaza Inn, and Newport Bay Club (although Beaver Creek had a dessert buffet).
WDW started really pushing the rubber head buffets in WDW and the same managers (Rasulo et al) moved to Paris and started to bring them here. Add in that they were looking for ways to capture the audience in WDW away from other attractions and increase revenue at DLP. They noticed how piggy people were at the breakfast buffets, and of course the DCL business launched. The consultant brought in (an aquaintance of mine who will remain nameless) decided Disney needed a cruise ship model. One where people give Disney their money upfront (useful for people who have difficulty budgeting), provide cheap buffets that cause in theory less food waste, but speed up dining for those in a hurry, and make folks feel they are getting a bargain, when the margins are 2 x more than service restaurants. They can also reduce casting. Also, character performers do not need to be acting or music union members and although the costumes are very expensive, the staffing is cheap, much cheaper than dancers and musicians (though to be fair, many of the friends of fluffies are dancers too, but they do not get paid dancing rates under French law unless they dance). the character buffet at Lucky Nugget was born. Also the LA Bar and Grill was converted to Cafe Mickey. And several other good restaurants who sadly were not as well utilised (combo of price and guest ignorance), were turned into buffets allowing them to add capacity to the dining plan, and reduce cost by synergising menues (other example, look at what has happened to the counter service restaurants over the years). A success in some ways, as it did reduce cost to the debt ridden company, and some people are very happy with these troughs, but I think in the main, the uniquity of DLP has lost out (but this has happened in WDW to, though to a lesser extent).
As for the Explorer's Club, this one breaks my heart. It was the most expensive in park table service restaurant, but it was loaded with multi lingual actors and amazing props (many sold on e bay) where they interacted with the birds. Sadly, due to location, cost of staffing, and lack of knowledge by the guests (look at how many people question the value of the amazing Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show), it did not last long.
It was turned into a Chinese restaurant for a few years, but again, did not sell well. Then it turned into a pizza place with no soul nor much to look at that we know today. So sad.
Quote from: "dagobert"The Finding Nemo Musical at DAK was great and we enjoyed it a lot. We haven't seen many other Disney stage shows, but Finding Nemo was definately the best one, followed by The Lion King show in Paris. We didn't like the Lion King show at DAK very much, we even liked the Beauty and the Beast show at DHS better.
I agree with you there. the LK show and most shows at WDW are poor. But Finding Nemo is excellent, my 4th fav Disney park show:
1. Aladdin - DCA
2. Mulan - DLP
3. Tarzan - DLP
4. Finding Nemo Musical - DAK
5. The Legend of the Lion King - DLP
Again, thanks Dave!
From a vegetarian point of view I really like the snack bar concept with dancers. Didn't the saloon at DL Anaheim also have can can dancers, even during Walt's time?
It's really sad what happened to the beautiful Explorers Club. It deserves so much more than a counter service restaurant that sells pasta and pizzas.
Do you think that these wonderful restaurants with all the special offers would have stayed without the bad financial situation? I don't think so, because WDW is making a lot of money and over there the same happened. Nice restuarants were turned into character buffets.
You can talk to everyone you want who is going to DLRP for more than 10 years, and everyone will assure you how much they miss the Explorers Club.
Quote from: "dagobert"Again, thanks Dave!
From a vegetarian point of view I really like the snack bar concept with dancers. Didn't the saloon at DL Anaheim also have can can dancers, even during Walt's time?
Indeed they did, from 1955 until the 90's. It was such a big deal, it was in the Guiness Book of World Records for a time as the longest running stage show in the world. And there was even a TV special aired across the whole US. Wally Boag, it's star, was so big in American popular culture, he was even a guest star on the Muppet Show. And I loved it.
Sadly the only park who still does it is Tokyo DL (or they did before the Earthquake at least). TDL also do the Polynesian Luau that used to run in California too (the Tahitian Terrace).
To me, the Golden Horseshoe and Tahitian Terrace growing up were as much a part of the DL experience as PotC and Haunted Mansion, and more important than any rubber heads.
In California, for a time, there was a vaudeville variety show with a comedy duo and the Billy Hills (this was until about 2005 or so). Now the Billy Hills play every day at DL. And you can still get snacks there.
WDW shuttered their saloon about 12 years ago, only to reopen it as a counter service restaurant this season.
It really makes me mad. The Disney difference used to be about live entertainment everywhere. But now the modern guest and the management team shove the same 6 kids' meals across all their restaurants, and characters everywhere. What is sad, when DLP opened, it had the finest restaurants in the Disney empire.
Now, when I was trip planning last night, I struggled to decide where to eat due to the lack of quality offerings these days. Yes, still better than regional parks, but not better than what Disney itself was or is elsewhere.
Quote from: "dagobert"Do you think that these wonderful restaurants with all the special offers would have stayed without the bad financial situation? I don't think so, because WDW is making a lot of money and over there the same happened. Nice restuarants were turned into character buffets.
I don't know. I doubt it. I think the problem is, a lot of people who would enjoy these kinds of places don't go to DLP because they think it is all fun fairs and toons (you know, like management is turning the place into these days). and the ones that want the toons and are all about the rides do not seem to want elaborate dining experinces. The number of people I have seen in BBWWS or Auberge that are not eating, because they do not like the food, has really left me scratching my head.
I had to laugh, last year, when we booked at Auberge, and they saw we were an American/British family, they said did we know what was on the menu? I said, of course, that is why we are here, and if it wasn't an overpriced character meal, we would dine there more regularly. They then responded, ok, just be aware we offer plain pasta, it is very popular with the British. I cracked up laughing and said, nope, we prefer to dine continentally.
WDW shut the Saloon to open a counter service restaurant?? That's even worse what DLRP did to the saloon.
I can't wait to see DL with my own eyes. Friends keep talking and talking how DLRP was more like DL than WDW fifteen years ago. Now it's the other way round.
Honestly, I thought that can can dancers would be a little bit too much for Walt Disney, because I thought that he was very conservative, but it seems I was wrong on that. Why did Disney remove the show? Do they think it is not family friendly enough?
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"I don't know. I doubt it. I think the problem is, a lot of people who would enjoy these kinds of places don't go to DLP because they think it is all fun fairs and toons (you know, like management is turning the place into these days). and the ones that want the toons and are all about the rides do not seem to want elaborate dining experinces. The number of people I have seen in BBWWS or Auberge that are not eating, because they do not like the food, has really left me scratching my head.
I had to laugh, last year, when we booked at Auberge, and they saw we were an American/British family, they said did we know what was on the menu? I said, of course, that is why we are here, and if it wasn't an overpriced character meal, we would dine there more regularly. They then responded, ok, just be aware we offer plain pasta, it is very popular with the British. I cracked up laughing and said, nope, we prefer to dine continentally.
Are you kidding me? They offer plain pasta in that wonderful restaurant. We loved that restaurant before the princesses arrived. So people are only going there just because of the characters?????? And they are paying over 50 Euros for that?
The restaurant offered one of the best salmons I have ever eaten, that was before I became a vegetarian.
According to friends Auberge isn't that relaxing anymore. They wre rushed through the restaurant to accomodate as much people as possible and they weren't happy with food either. They think the food was better before.
It's Disney's fault that people who would enjoy such things aren't coming to DLRP. The whole resort is just promoted to kids. sometime I have the feeling Disney doesn't want to have other guests than families. And many families look at us and you know how they think about a couple being at DL.
Quote from: "dagobert"WDW shut the Saloon to open a counter service restaurant?? That's even worse what DLRP did to the saloon.
Yep, but that is WDW is all about. They were the first to bring in staggered opening and closings for attractions, shops and restaurants (I remember reading in one of my books how Walt never approved of something being closed unless it was being refurbed).
Quote from: "dagobert"I can't wait to see DL with my own eyes. Friends keep talking and talking how DLRP was more like DL than WDW fifteen years ago. Now it's the other way round.
sadly so. In 1992, I thought that DLP was the greatest theme park on the planet, even beating my beloved Disneyland. Sadly, not as much any more. I don't know if it is the economics, the market, the lack of Walt, the management team, modern society, probably a combination of it all; but the show has sunk to the background. A new bunch of fans/management have come in and it is all about toons. I try to enjoy it, and let's face it, it is still better than most of their rivals. But i have consoled myself to the fact that my children will never grow up with the same level of quality DIsney park experience as I enjoyed. Same can be true for many other things in life, but whereas I was inspired by attractions like Adventures In Inner Space or Le Visionarium; my kids enjoy blasting Zurg or want to ride RC Racer. Sure, it is fun, but will it resonate with them in the same way when they are older? Will they outgrow Disney? I am frightened of that happening to them. Now DL in California has dumbed down too, but not to the same extent as Paris or Orlando. Be warned, I love DL and find it to be like Tivoli Gardens - a wonderful, magical oasis in an urban area. I find that is part of it's charm, along with the smaller scale park with detail around every corner. It is not on the same scale as WDW or DLP (though 2/3rds of WDW's attraction count can be found in DL/DCA - an area the size of Epcot!). I prefer quality over quantity any day.
Quote from: "dagobert"Honestly, I thought that can can dancers would be a little bit too much for Walt Disney, because I thought that he was very conservative, but it seems I was wrong on that. Why did Disney remove the show? Do they think it is not family friendly enough?
You would be surprised (FWIW, Roy Disney Jr. proposed to his wife on the Mark Twain and then they celebrated with the dress rehearsal of the Golden Horseshoe Revue the night before DL opened to the public). Walt wanted the riding crop outfits for his ambassadors, called the staff cast members so he could be picky about looks, he said that only men could work the jungle cruise, trains or steam boats, but only women could narrate the Storybookland Canal boats. He asked for the Hula girls to be in the Tahitian Terrace.
And on Main Street, there was a shop called the Wizard of Bras that sold lingerie; Upjohn's Pharmacy exhibit that talked of laudinum and opium; and there was a full blown tobaccanist on Main street. He simply did not want alcohol served in the parks to stop jerk behaviour (though sold it in Holidayland, Club 33 and allowed it to be served in the DLH (owned by Jack Wagner))
Quote from: "dagobert"Are you kidding me? They offer plain pasta in that wonderful restaurant. We loved that restaurant before the princesses arrived. So people are only going there just because of the characters?????? And they are paying over 50 Euros for that?
The restaurant offered one of the best salmons I have ever eaten, that was before I became a vegetarian.
According to friends Auberge isn't that relaxing anymore. They wre rushed through the restaurant to accomodate as much people as possible and they weren't happy with food either. They think the food was better before.
It's Disney's fault that people who would enjoy such things aren't coming to DLRP. The whole resort is just promoted to kids. sometime I have the feeling Disney doesn't want to have other guests than families. And many families look at us and you know how they think about a couple being at DL.
I wish I were kidding. But I better be careful, I get into trouble on these boards when I am too critical of other guests, even though I think they are really a part of ruining the resort. But I agree, the food and service are still good, but not as good as it used to be.And no, it is not as relaxing, but that is because it is full of lots of little ones' birthday parties now. They have their place too, but it is very different. Still though, I must confess I enjoyed celebrating Jessica's 5th that way last year too (I know, I am a hypocrit).
But yes, the days of Disney being truly for everyone I think are gone. I would never dream of honeymooning at WDW like we did in 2000. Nor would I find DLP to be a great adult break anymore. When I was courting my wife at DLP, we used to enjoy 5 live music/dancing venues; several table service restaurants - I really miss Key west Seafood, LA Bar and Grill, Hunter's Grill (table service with skewers brought to the table), Parkside Diner (fantastic priced and quality table service), Manhatten Grill (second best restaurant on property with a great European/american fusion), the Jazz Club (great live bands while sipping cocktails or coffee), Rock n Roll America (tribute acts playing U2, Beatles, Rock n Roll, while next door offered the Moody Brothers and line dancing), the Central Stage - huge pop and rock acts, Hurricane's before it was lame and now dead, the wonderful Crescend'O aquatic circus with live music.
Sometimes we would go to DLP for a weekend and never ride and ride, and come back absolutely enthralled with our trip. Those days are long gone. and FWIW, my kids would have enjoyed a lot of those venues too (before anyone chimes in calling my kid unfriendly). My kids adore the TAMTAMs, and find the hub shows dull. They also loved the Tarzan show.
But I recognise that I am not the typical DLP guest, and nor are you Dagobert. It is really apparent when I pass through St Pancras in London as the DLP train gets in. In California, there are no Tivoli's, nor free museums, nor a number of the things we take for granted in Europe. DL is an icon, with generations growing up going there to dance, date, take families, people watch and retire to.
Here in Europe, we have other places for that. To most here, Disney is all about the toons. So people go expecting that. The two resorts fulfil two very different markets sadly. And the family, toon stuff, sells sadly.
Wasn't it Jack WRATHER who owned the DL hotel, but Jack Wagner also sounds familiar. I think I have heared of him in the documentation "From Lightbulb to Lightbulb" on the "Entrez Dans La Magique" DLRP-DVD. It was about MSEP.
Disney back then was so much more different than now. I can't imagine Disney having a tobacco shop on Main Street or a shop that sells lingerie. I'm sure some people would complain about that. I think the company cares too much nowadays about how people are going to react on certain things.
Back in 2008 when we have been to WDW, all attractions closed at the same time, except for Extra Magic Hours, which are a lot better over there, because Disney offers the EMHs in the evening as well. That is more fun, because the parks look incredible when they are illuminated and people were more relaxed, especialy in EPCOT and DHS. Most families were gone and only adults stayed until midnight when the park closed. Don't get me wrong, a disney park should be filled with families, DL without children isn''t DL, but people were enjoying drinks and it was just more relaxed in the park.
Oops, sorry, you are right, it was Wrather (Wagner was the voice of Disneyland, he did all the park announcements).
When we went to WDW in 2008, it was full of staggered opening and closings. And now of course, Fantasmic only shows 2 nights a week at DHS. This is the new Disney I am afraid.
As for EMH, DLP had evening EMH for a while in 2006/7. Heck, when DLP first opened, EMH for hotel guests, all attractions were open in the morning.
But the costs and the uptake, it makes these stupid hard ticket events more appealing e.g. Pirate and Princess Parties, Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party etc. Late night opening is expensive, and DLP has to be mindful of when the trains stop running as more cast members use them (this is particularly a problem in Tokyo). In winter, it is too cold after dak, I have been in the parks after dark when they close at 6 or 7, and if Fanti is not running, the place is deserted. So DLP have struggled with this one. This is why they close early in the week, but finally stay open quite late at the weekends.
But even WDW has clamped down. in the 80's and 90's, the parks were open long hours. MK would be 9-midnight; Epcot (inc World Showcase) 9-Midnight/1am; MGM 10-22. These days, unless it is EMH, the MK often closes early; Epcot opens World Showcase before lunch and closes at 9:30pm, and DHS is usually a 9-9 park.
I'm not sure if people are only demanding toons, because each time when we talk to other people about DLRP, they don't understand why we are going there. They expect the whole park like being a fun fair filled with Disney characters. After we told them that there is more than toons and that the park is themed to various things, they got interested and we convinced already four families to go. And they will return.
None of them talked about the toons when they returned. They talked about the wonderful design of the park, the rides and of the bad Disney hotels :lol: .
That's why we tell everyone when they are going for the first time, that they should stay in a Vienna International hotel. By the way we stayed in a VI hotel last weekend, it was our third stay in a VI hotel, and it was again so much better than the DIsney hotels.
DL is indeed an icon in the US. Disney in general is so much loved by Americans. Nearly everyone we met in the US has been to WDW or DL.
I know. I find it harder to defend these days with the celebrations, character meals, Toy Story Playland etc. But yes, before we had kids, we used to have a lot of people make fun of us too. But everyone we convinced to take their kids pretty much fell in love with it.
My mom refuses to go anymore. She says DLP is too kiddy and nothing like DL in her opinion. It's sad.
But if you read some of the other boards (including this one, but there are other DIScussion groups), it seems like that is all people want. And when the marching band does show up in summer, it seems people pass them by. And yes, when Tiana debuted last year, we saw people queing up 50 minutes before her first meet and greet slot on Main Street.
It drives me mad frankly. But I have come to accept it.
In the meantime, I am very excited for our trip to Europa Park. there are something like 20 shows, live performers, ice show, stunt show, magic shows, flamenco, musicals. I cannot wait. I am trying to keep my expectations low, but I am very hopeful.
If you read most of the queries on this forum today, the vast majority are character related. And a poster who I do respect has even mentioned in one considering the possibility of taking his kids to Auberge and not eating. I wish I were making this up.
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Oops, sorry, you are right, it was Wrather (Wagner was the voice of Disneyland, he did all the park announcements).
When we went to WDW in 2008, it was full of staggered opening and closings. And now of course, Fantasmic only shows 2 nights a week at DHS. This is the new Disney I am afraid.
As for EMH, DLP had evening EMH for a while in 2006/7. Heck, when DLP first opened, EMH for hotel guests, all attractions were open in the morning.
But the costs and the uptake, it makes these stupid hard ticket events more appealing e.g. Pirate and Princess Parties, Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party etc. Late night opening is expensive, and DLP has to be mindful of when the trains stop running as more cast members use them (this is particularly a problem in Tokyo). In winter, it is too cold after dak, I have been in the parks after dark when they close at 6 or 7, and if Fanti is not running, the place is deserted. So DLP have struggled with this one. This is why they close early in the week, but finally stay open quite late at the weekends.
But even WDW has clamped down. in the 80's and 90's, the parks were open long hours. MK would be 9-midnight; Epcot (inc World Showcase) 9-Midnight/1am; MGM 10-22. These days, unless it is EMH, the MK often closes early; Epcot opens World Showcase before lunch and closes at 9:30pm, and DHS is usually a 9-9 park.
Here is a point I have to disagree with you. We attended the Pirates and Princess Party at WDW and it was one of the most amazing things we have done at Disney. You can't compare WDW's version of the party with the one DLRP is doing tis year. The whole MK was open, all attractions were open and most of the restaurants. The CMs were dressed as pirates and they were really motivated. There were treasure hunts for children, but we and many other adults joined, Disney offered special LE pins and the firework was incredible.
We have been to WDW in January and I can't remember closed attractions while the rest of the park was open. I think most parks closed around 19:00 without EMHs. DAK closed at 18:00 due to the animals.
Fantasmic wasn't running every day, but it was worth seeing it. I wish something like that would be in Paris.
I think I know what forum you are talking about. I registered once, but I have never posted, because it wasn't tolerated to say something against Disney. And it is mainly about WDW and people are very obsessed about WDW and food. I have never seen so many food trip reports.
Your experience and mine differed. When we went to the MK in the morning, half the attractions opened an hour to 2 hours after opening. We experienced this first hand.
Also, I was very upset as we were at WDW for 11 days, and in that whole time, there were only 3 nights where you could see Wishes, all the other nights the park closed early so they could have the Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party which would have cost us about another 150 euro for the five of us. That to me was inexcusable. The level of entertainment offered at these parties were on par with the usual special experiences in Tokyo and California that did not require an extra ticket. That said, California changed their policy last year and started doing these upcharge parties.
The ones in Paris are really rediculous as very few attractions are open, they are for a few hours aimed at kiddies, scheduled past kids' bed times. seems bonkers to me.
We tried to make full use of the EMHs, especially at DAK, because of Expedition everest and Kilimajaro Safaris. Most of the time we used the EMHs in the morning to have breakfast in the park, because the US hotels didn't offer breakfast. It seems that isn't common at US DIsney resorts. So I don't know if all attractions were open in the morning. I know for sure that World Showcase at EPCOT opened an hour after Future World.
In the evening we are pretty sure that at least all rides were open. Most of the shows were already closed.
I had the privilege to experience Disneyland Paris or better Euro Disney back in 92, when I was 9 years old. My excitement was huge and I kept on going through the same promotional pamphlets and brochures I had from my disney comics from 91. I didn't know what to expect from a Disney Park, but I sure got the message when I was reading these brochures. I knew that it would be more than just a regular park where you meet disney characters and do rides. I could feel and smell the atmosphere and ambiance of the different areas. Actually I was MORE excited for experiencing the different lands and their vast details and concept, than being for meeting Mickey and Co. Sure it was another reason to be REALLY glad, of meeting my favorite cartoon heroes, but my attention was focused elsewhere.
When I first entered the Park, I was simply AMAZED. It was way better than I thought and I couldn't grasp the fact that such a park actually existed. All my favorite themes together. Early century American Town, Jules Verne, H G Wells and turn of the century visionaires, Jungles from Africa, Asia and Middle East giving this 50s style of exotic adventure, Wild West of 19th century America and of course all the disney classics together and their european landscape and theme.
Everything caught my attention like small details, the music, the stories behind each land, the amazing merchandise, the restaurants etc . I guess I am making my point clear. It was all about the big and small details.I sure appreciated the subtlety with which they incorporated the characters with the park.
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"sadly so. In 1992, I thought that DLP was the greatest theme park on the planet, even beating my beloved Disneyland. Sadly, not as much any more. I don't know if it is the economics, the market, the lack of Walt, the management team, modern society, probably a combination of it all; but the show has sunk to the background. A new bunch of fans/management have come in and it is all about toons. I try to enjoy it, and let's face it, it is still better than most of their rivals. But i have consoled myself to the fact that my children will never grow up with the same level of quality DIsney park experience as I enjoyed. Same can be true for many other things in life, but whereas I was inspired by attractions like Adventures In Inner Space or Le Visionarium; my kids enjoy blasting Zurg or want to ride RC Racer. Sure, it is fun, but will it resonate with them in the same way when they are older? Will they outgrow Disney? I am frightened of that happening to them. Now DL in California has dumbed down too, but not to the same extent as Paris or Orlando. Be warned, I love DL and find it to be like Tivoli Gardens - a wonderful, magical oasis in an urban area. I find that is part of it's charm, along with the smaller scale park with detail around every corner. It is not on the same scale as WDW or DLP (though 2/3rds of WDW's attraction count can be found in DL/DCA - an area the size of Epcot!). I prefer quality over quantity any day.
You said the magic word...Modern Society. Plus something else...European market.
For sure I acknowledge the ongoing recession and various economic problems that we have been into for the past 20 years, the bad plan (or to put differently the high expectations early plan that Disney had for the park) etc etc.
But for me the two most important facts that have played a major role to what we see these days are modern society and european market. People in europe are not appreciative of the disney culture, they mostly see it as a cheap American thing that came to europe by the American Imperialists to invade their lives. And since the dawn of the new millennium, society has changed so much and Disney has to shift towards this direction...of low quality films, countless sequels/prequels of each disney classic concept, lower standards in parks, since there is no reason of keeping them the way they were (people don't pay attention to such things anyway). The new generations learn as Dave said how to shoot Buzz instead f having the imagination blown away from Jules Verne, learn over 2 or 3 versions of Bambi, Cinderella etc expecting that every time. It's Disney's fault as well, from taking advantage of this shift of the market and trying to gain every single penny from it. Unfortunately we are not the driving force of Disney and of the Parks when it comes to their long term sustainability. We pinpoint things that don't provide what Disney wants and Dinsey wants to attract new customers based on the current market.
Anyway that's my 2c (rant :shock: ). I am also very pleased with all the things that they do at DLRP (maintenance) and the fact that the Park is up and running despite all the problems. I try to see the positive aspects of things and for me being able to keep going back to DLRP is a major plus. For sure nowadays the Park runs much better compared to bleak years such as early 00s. Yet I still can't grasp management's way of thinking to some things.
I've stuck to a set of mind where I still use names such as the Explorers Club and that it is an amazing table service restaurant, Festival Disney and Team Mickey Sports, i still have the impression of Lucky Nugget saloon having a live staged show, I keep entering the shops thinking that I'm gonna find items exclusively to them and not anywhere else, I keep thinking of visiting shops that now exist no more, feel the same urge to go to Visionarium.
Anyway...I still feel the same urge to visit Disneyland for the 10th time, probably next year!
Thanks for your thoughts Helmsmen. Though I think the money and leadership are the still the biggest issues. Imagine if we were getting a Grizzly Gulch or Expedition Everest, I am sure the European Market would appreciate that. A World of Colour, Fantasmic or Soarin'. All of these would perform well. The problem is, they are expensive.
there are a lot of folks who to them Disney is the toons or Ducktales comics in europe, and that is fine. But how is that different than Disney being Snow White, Peter Pan and Davy Crockett when Disneyland opened in 1955? The issue for me is the choices management make, and how they market the resort. Rather than lead and develop, they have lots of survey takers (I know, share holder value). But how many people asked Walt for some singing pirates or grim grinning ghosts? No one, they invented them.
I know it is a popular licence, but look at the buzz the Wizarding World of Harry Potter had. It is a redress of an older area of Islands of Aventure, and people are queuing for hours to go into a shop! It is the characters sadly driving it, but it is the quality that is wowing them.
You know what I would love for the 20th???? A return to traditional Disneyland entertainment roots. Sure, I think the characters have their place, and god knows they seemed to be adored by many, but how about instead of more lame character shoving, they focused on some of this stuff, talking about DLP's party being the biggest ever including a 20 hour party in the park:
Dapper Dans:
[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlTmaS0K2J8[/youtube:klzeu2u5]
Maybe the marching band:
[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_8W0-IBLJg[/youtube:klzeu2u5]
How about a little piano:
[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bFwDkh3sW0[/youtube:klzeu2u5]
Here's the resident swing band at Disneyland:
[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL7IFOLGiCY[/youtube:klzeu2u5]
Maybe a little Billy Hill like at Disneyland
[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WytYIehFQBQ[/youtube:klzeu2u5]
Or shows like the Golden Horseshoe Revue:
[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5b3VOXFu88[/youtube:klzeu2u5]
The Tahitian Terrace in Disneyland:
[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwQVTlHyiyI[/youtube:klzeu2u5]
Sword in the Stone Ceremony (ok, toon based, but very different than what we have today)
[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Nqv2v-xSE[/youtube:klzeu2u5]
The bands in Discoveryland:
[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvEYule6zGY[/youtube:klzeu2u5]
The former DLP Jazz Band:
[youtube:klzeu2u5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEGN2eZTZ5Q[/youtube:klzeu2u5]
Quote from: "Kristof"During the weekend of 2 and 3 April the Disney Magical Moments Festival was launched for the press and a group of fan website owners got invited as well.
...
You forgot to mention that dlrpfans.be was also there
I would be great if Disney would bring these kinds of entertainment back.
In the US we have seen a documentation about TDR on Discovery Channel or Travel Channel. There they still have such things, at least I remember a guy with a piano on a bicycle playing in the World Bazaar area of the park. The movie also showed various singers around TDS.
It would be amazing to have such things and I'm sure many adults, who are not only interested in Mickey & Co would be very happy.
These types of entertainments exist in California, Orlando, Hong Kong and Tokyo, just not Paris.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes to all of the above!
I loved the marching band they had for precisely 24 hours at the launch of the 15th Anniversary.
To me there are basically two obvious types of street entertainments at DLP (and maybe other Disney Parks): the ones which embellish a location, make you stop and appreciate your surroundings (all of the above), and then the ones which might not necessarily be bad productions, but crash into the park thinking only of themselves, making the average guest completely ignore their surroundings (Disney Dance Express) - usually only at the requirement for something "new" to push in the brochures. Some of the Magical Moments stuff really succeeds with the first - the Rhythms of the Jungle, Peter Pan and Alice moments are nice "live" additions to their lands.
Anyway, can't we lament park entertainments in one specific topic rather than every single one? Maybe even keep this discussion to Kristof's write-up of the Entertainment Q&A, if he doesn't mind that being hijacked. I might move these posts over there.
Move them where you think them best. I am just keen, that maybe we have a chance to lobby Disney to think about this as they are preparing for next year, as I am sure they are ;)
Thinking about it, that is probably the most appropriate place. I tried to keep a really open mind, afterall, last year's hub show was ok (ish) and having the Dixieland Group with Tiana last year was really great. Tarzan coming back is better than last year too. But this new campaign has me shaking my head. At least we are not stuck with it like a certain newish land in WDSP :D
Posts moved. :)
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"But this new campaign has me shaking my head.
Hmm, I quite like the idea of a series of "moments" throughout the lands, like a collection of different Sword in the Stone ceremonies. Smaller-scale things to bring the existing sets to life. I'm disappointed they didn't bring the Mary Poppins show back to Main Street this year, even if it is a few years old. That would have been perfect for one of these moments.
That is fine. As long as they mixed it up. I remember in 1992 they did this. With my own eyes I witnessed:
- MS was full of all the live music, as well as Good Morning Main Street, and the pengiuns with Burt and Mary.
- Gunfight in Frontierland, canoes of course, 3 Cabrello's, Mariachis at Fuente Del Oro, cowboy goofy, as well as the can can dancers
- In Adventureland - Capt Hook and Jungle Book meet and greets, tam tams, snake charmer, belly dancers, and fencing pirates on Adventure Isle/Pirate Ship
- Fantasyland had princesses, a tea party at March Hare refreshments and the Labrynth, Merlin ceremony
- Discoveryland had C3P0, Ewoks, Chewy, as well as a number of funky bands.
And of course characters would randomly appear. 2 parades and fireworks every night.
This was the Disney experience I knew and loved, and would adore to return.
QuoteI'm glad to hear that there are no plans to replace Cinemagique, one of the best Disney attractions. I also like Animagique and I'm happy that it will stay for at least a few years.
I have to admit, I'm a bit excited that a new stage show will come to Videopolis.
Totally agree with you there. Though I'd take it one step further and say I love Animagique!
To the Entertainment fan meeting: For me the meeting seems to be a big disappointment. What have they said? Nothing new. They just wanna go on with the same kind of entertainment. They won´t juse the DLP stages. Instead they keep up octopus stage on central plaza with some BIG shows that have low budget and no interest by guests.
The wonderful cinéfolies won´t come back, no little shows....they seem to thing that they do a great job so far.
So the wonderful little entertainment that make a park seems again to have a very small part.
It´s like anthony said:
" and then the ones which might not necessarily be bad productions, but crash into the park thinking only of themselves, making the average guest completely ignore their surroundings (Disney Dance Express) - usually only at the requirement for something "new" to push in the brochures. "
It´s great if we get a wonderful little or big show out of that. But most time it´s "Dance time at discoveryland"....and NO the parisian fans didn´t thing that it was a great show!
Did they say if Dr Facilier will be back this Halloween? lol. (This is purely a Q for my 5 yr old)
I would love to see more musical entertainment.
I am shocked that someone would go to the Auberge and not eat, whats the point?
Quote from: "dagobert"How did it work in the early days of DLRP to have shows in the restaurants?
In my opinion the food department shouldn't be involved anywhere except for food, because that's really bad in Paris. Disney should cut their power or replace the managers and then they should concentrate to improve the food quality. It works in all other Disney parks to have shows in restaurants, except, what a surprise, in Paris.
What lamposts on Central Plaza are you talking about? I didn't expect that the stage will be removed, nevertheless it still ruins the view on the castle.
I'm glad to hear that there are no plans to replace Cinemagique, one of the best Disney attractions. I also like Animagique and I'm happy that it will stay for at least a few years.
I have to admit, I'm a bit excited that a new stage show will come to Videopolis. I don't know how elaborate shows like "The Golden Mickeys" in HKDL and on DCL are, but I can imagine that the new show will be based on an existing show to cut the costs. Didn't Disney bring a Toy Story Musical to the new Disney ship?
Tokyo Disneyland has shows in restaurants which you can ONLY watch if you have booked a table to eat - i guess like a mini dinner show