I remember reading somewhere that Phantom Manor is getting an update later this year with new and updated effects and a possible new scene. Anyway, I can't find it anymore, so, does anyone know anything about it or was it just my imagination?
Thanks
True, for the 20th anniversary, there are rumors that several attractions might get new effects and improved show scenes, including Phantom Manor. Little is known beyond that, however.
As chavs would say....OMG!
I love the PM so much, its by far one of the best dark rides in exsistance, I so hope they dont ruin it!
I think I have read that somewhere, too. I really hope that the visual ffects and the sound system will receive an upgrade, like the Haunted Mansion in Florida. The Magic Kingdom version was a lot better than the one in Paris, effect wise not story wise. Still prefere the PM over the HM.
Not sure about the new scene, but when properly incorporated I think I'm fine with it.
New effects would be great, more to discover in this attraction...
i hope the new scene will not include any pixar characters :-P
Quote from: "lil-shawn"New effects would be great, more to discover in this attraction...
i hope the new scene will not include any pixar characters :-P
Quote from: "lil-shawn"New effects would be great, more to discover in this attraction...
i hope the new scene will not include any pixar characters :-P
i think stinky pete would b right at home in phantom canyon!!!
Nah, they'll do it in style, like Stitch replacing the Phantom etc.
Oh my!
Stitch replacing the Phantom?!
I'm sorry, but that would completely ruin the ride & it's story.
Come on, this was obviously a joke. A bad one, I admit, but a joke no less...
Oh, I'm sorry....
Good joke! But it is true, Pixar is taking over everything now.. I like my classic Disney.
First I had heard of this.
The official Disney Parks blog has posted a video about the new interactive queue:
http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2 ... gdom-park/ (http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2011/03/video-sneak-peek-haunted-mansion-interactive-queue-at-magic-kingdom-park/%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
What do you think? Do you want to see these things at DLRP, too?
I much prefer our queue line to the one in MK. I think with all those tomb stones and crypts, it all looks a little cramped and busy, that's the imprssion I got from that video anyway. :P
I do like the interactive bits though, but I don't see where they would fit in to our queue :?
I'd like to see some new effects inside the ride itself rather than plussing the queue.
Looks interesting but I prefer the old queue line. I always get a chill, even during the summer whilst queing and it just adds to the whole experience.
Would like to see the cast members getting in on the act again.
A few times in the 90's we saw the Grim Reaper outside by the entrance and it was fun to watch people ignoring him because he seemed static and then running screaming when he went to grab them.
I also prefere our queue. In my opinion this is just a playground for people having troubles with waiting.
Hm, I think new additions would be good. But not interactive ones. I can imagine the the interactiv instruments can be very nerving when guests are touching them, making strange noises all the time.
Kids would surely love them, but everybody knows what will happen when kids find out how to use this things. Speaking of my four year old daughter. She loves to push buttons.
:lol:
Boohoo PM is closed the week we are going!!! Gutted!!!!!!
:(
I'm hoping the refurb also extends to the gardens. I was watching a youtube clip from 2009 and it showed the summer house table laid out for afternoon tea and the fountain in the pens working. Tiny details but they add to the atmosphere.
I could really do without new scenes - Phantom Manor is great as it is, so there is no reason to change anything...
I disagree, you can definately use new technology to improve the spectacle of the attraction whilst maintaining the feel. The new floating Leona effect for example is spellbinding, and would give the attraction that little change and kick to draw people back to it. Walt did say himself that Disneyland was a living project that would be forever changing and improved, I think he'd love to see how people can use new tricks to make his ideas come to life even more magically!
The same goes for the new mirrors effect at the end of the WDW Mansion, it covers the slightly clunky, out of date ending of the old Mansion and replaces it with something to leave people going 'how did that work'! Which surely is one of the key places you should have a mysterious illusion, in a mysterious Manor sitting atop a hill.
If we didn't change anything from the originals we'd not even have the Manor as we know it, Walt didn't want the house to look run down, and if the Imagineers hadn't seen past that and challenged what people knew, then we wouldn't have the most beautiful Mansion of them all!
Draw people back to it? I don't think Phantom Manor has the problem of decreasing visitors...
But I agree with you that new technology and improvements aren't always bad - the thing is: I didn't like most of the recent updates/improvements/add-ons in other attractions, so I'm always sceptical if people call for changes of good rides...
I've always felt that as it isn't a character ride people just don't care for it as much. It's annoying because it's one of the best attractions in the parks!
I think (hope) that if they do add any upgrades they'll use the effects which have been tried and tested, and approved by the fans of the Haunted Mansions so far, instead of new untested ideas which may not work as well. I'm not talking massive overhauls, but the little things that add the sense of wonder to the Manor, floating Leota, the lightning changing portraits, mirror gag etc.
The new mirror animation is already quite out of tune with the whimsical Haunted Mansion, Walt forbid they try to add anything of the kind to Phantom Manor! I'll hand you the floating Leota effect.
How is it out of tune? I'd say it took the original idea, and made it more convincing! Obviously I wouldn't want those meddlesome Hitchhiking Ghosts in the mirrors, but imagine if you looked into the mirror and the Phantom faded into view between you, or reached down and lifted a hat off your head?
It'd look better than the clunky Phantom figure which most of the time doesn't line up with the Doombuggy anymore! I've always thought as a finalé piece, the fact that you can see the Phantom coming round the corner as he reaches the start and end of the run behind the mirrors ruins the effect, I'd love to see the new technology make it a really eerie ending to the Manor. You could even have Melanie appear again to protect certain Doombuggies!
Indeed, the Phantom in the mirrors at the end would be really nice!
I think the real problem with the new mirror effect in Florida is the style of the animation itself. If the animated ghosts had the same constraints as an audio-animatronic figure, the effect would gel better with the rest of the attraction.
Quote from: "Alan"I think the real problem with the new mirror effect in Florida is the style of the animation itself. If the animated ghosts had the same constraints as an audio-animatronic figure, the effect would gel better with the rest of the attraction.
Right, that's one problem... then there are the ghosts' actions which would fit better in a Looney Tunes cartoon.
IF they used it in a more subtle way, I'd be all in favor, but at that point I wonder if they'd even bother.
See, I think their actions do fit the final scenes of the Mansions, as their graveyard does take a more cartoony twist. Obviously ours is much more thematic than that, and the hitch hiking ghosts wouldn't fit, so they'd have to do more work to make it into the Phantom and his story then that's the least I'd expect.
I know people dislike the animation of the ghosts, but I think that's just a case of taking it out of context, they do fit the house, they match the quality of new Floating Leona and the Bride, so although they're not the jerky animatronics of old, they're not quite as out there as possible.
I think I'd just like to see some love for the Manor really. It's the best attraction in the park and I don't like that it seems dead on it's feet, it's been ignored in the grand refurb of the park for the 20th. It could be worse, we could get Phantom Manor: Haunting 2...
Quote from: "Scissorsboi"it's been ignored in the grand refurb of the park for the 20th. It could be worse, we could get Phantom Manor: Haunting 2...
Not exactly. In the recent refurbishment, they fixed the lightning at the end of the sequence in the stretching room. We can finally actually see the groom again, because it's not flashing so quickly.
In terms of improvements, though; yeah, there's nothing. I'm sure there's loads of features in the mansion that could be improved.
Quote from: "Scissorsboi"See, I think their actions do fit the final scenes of the Mansions, as their graveyard does take a more cartoony twist.
Ah, but there's a difference between a Marc Davis cartoon and a Tex Avery cartoon...
Anyway, I agree that PM could use some TLC. I think there are other scenes which would require attention more urgently, though. The shadow pianist, the ballroom reflections, Phantom Canyon... And as I've stated elsewhere I'd love to see the original queue concept realized.
There were a few changes made to attraction a few years ago... Not everyone thought they were improvements, but most importantly they perhaps didn't do enough. Apparently they intended to fix that for the 20th...
They could at least clean the ballroom scene glass, the effect is not so great when you can see dirty great smears making the glass visible. Give me some Mr Sheen and I'll do it myself next time I'm there.
Quote from: "DopeyDad"They could at least clean the ballroom scene glass, the effect is not so great when you can see dirty great smears making the glass visible. Give me some Mr Sheen and I'll do it myself next time I'm there.
So true...But this year, I thought they were pretty clean, for example last year it was really bad and ruined the ballroom-scence...
Quote from: "Meph"Not exactly. In the recent refurbishment, they fixed the lightning at the end of the sequence in the stretching room. We can finally actually see the groom again, because it's not flashing so quickly.
I've noticed that last week, too. I can't remember of seeing the Phantom and the groom so clearly!
But unfortunately the Phantom at the end of the ride wasn't there and none of the doors right at the beginning worked...
Maybe the Canyon scene could be replaced by a scene where we enter the garden and see the bride floating around the leftovers from the party that never was. Maybe a cake, presents, tables al half gone by the age of time. Comparable to the "Attic" scene in the HM at MK WDW. With loads of attributes and such.
What do you guys think of this?
I think that's a nice idea. Just yesterday I visited the ravenswood manor homepage and again thought that Phantom Canyon doesn't really fit in Phantom Manor. Or at least, I would have preferred a scene more connected to the bride/Phantom story.
By the way, at this website they are talking about a carriage house in the queue that has never been realizied due to high costs. I'd love to see PM with this addition. Instead, the garden pavilion has been built, which isn't too nice in my opinion ;)
Quote from: "Patrick89"... Instead, the garden pavilion has been built, which isn't too nice in my opinion ;)
I never thought of it as a pavillion just some que area with a roof... and a sadly, never working fountian... Maybe there is a way to bring more of the interactive que from WDW (Not in the cartoon kinda way they use over there) to Parc Disneyland
Quoted from the ravenswood-site:
QuoteDid you have to abandon any concepts which you would have liked to include in the attraction?
Fortunately, all the best concepts conceived for the main attraction were incorporated into Phantom Manor as it currently stands. However, the preshow and post-show are nowhere near as elaborate as originally designed. The queue which currently winds through the garden pavillion was initially intended to take the guest inside an ornate Victorian carriage house and stable where lighting, sound and special effects would have created an eerie atmospheric pre-ride experience. The Boot Hill area, which serves as a post-show, features only a few of the animated elements and special effects which were originally designed to provide a disquietingly peculiar atmosphere through which the guest was to exit.
This was part of an interview with show producer Jeff Burke.
QuoteTaking into account the often inclement weather of central Europe, a large part of the queue area would be covered. Imagineers initially developed the concept of a grand carriage-house that would protect those waiting in line from rain, snow or grail. This lavishly themed two-story structure made it all the way into the early model stage...
When the budget was tightened, however, the carriage-house made way for a simpler garden pavillion in order to avoid sacrificing more important elements from the ride itself. Fernando Tenedora created a seperate piece of concept art (below), showing how the garden pavillion would have been used for social get-togethers by the upper class of Thunder Mesa, in order to convey this new idea.
Maybe I'll be able to share some more details regarding that carriage house in a future update...
For another project of mine Jeff shared an intriguing account of his ideas. It was to be highly detailed and had a number of "haunted" effects. Pat Burke found a number of antique carriages for the interior... It's definitely high on my wish list for PM though I'm not sure if it could be done that well these days.
Quote from: "DGRavenswood"Maybe I'll be able to share some more details regarding that carriage house in a future update...
For another project of mine Jeff shared an intriguing account of his ideas. It was to be highly detailed and had a number of "haunted" effects. Pat Burke found a number of antique carriages for the interior... It's definitely high on my wish list for PM though I'm not sure if it could be done that well these days.
That would be great! After reading that, I've become really curious about this carriage house and the cancelled effects of Boot Hill.
Phantom Manor and the whole Frontierland theme are so fascinating, I just can't get enough of it. While the other lands seem to be more like melting pots of different stories, every location in Frontierland fits into the same story (except the playground maybe, but as this wasn't an original attraction, it doesn't count ;) ).
By the way, this ravenswood manor site is my favourite of all Disneyland-websites, it is so detailled and contains so many informations you cannot get elsewhere. So thanks a lot for creating it, Mr. Ravenswood :thumbs:
Quote from: "Patrick89"By the way, this ravenswood manor site is my favourite of all Disneyland-websites, it is so detailled and contains so many informations you cannot get elsewhere. So thanks a lot for creating it, Mr. Ravenswood :thumbs:
I second that, fantastic site, very informative. PM is my very favourite ride and I love reading about it.
You probably have already seen it but there's quite a good site called doombuggies.com it's about all of the haunted manions but have trivia on phantom manor also. I love listening to all the samples of each audio track as you go through phantom manor, usually more so when we get back from dlrp and I'm depressed :(
Quote from: "Karen"You probably have already seen it but there's quite a good site called doombuggies.com it's about all of the haunted manions but have trivia on phantom manor also. I love listening to all the samples of each audio track as you go through phantom manor, usually more so when we get back from dlrp and I'm depressed :(
Thank you, I haven't looked at that one yet.
Thanks! I'm glad people still appreciate RM even without frequent updates...
I don't want to hijack the topic for self-promotion (though it's not like I make a cent off my site, quite the contrary) but there will be a major overhaul with some new material as soon as I'll have the time to finish it!
And I second the plug for Doombuggies.com. It's one of the sites that inspired me in the first place and after all these years it's still THE site for the Haunted Mansion.
I have to say that Phanton Manor really is the most amazing attraction at DLRP if it wasnt there I probably wouldnt go :shock:
I think it has the most loyal fans of all the rides in the park. We went Halloween 2011 and i was really disappointed that PM wasnt the centre of the halloween theme.
I saw the video of halloween when they used PM to project onto and using the original music OMG i wish i had been there. I mean come on disney wouldnt it be amazing just to make Frontierland really dark and spooky and tell the story of the manor etc at Halloween and we could all go dressed as Melanie and Henry :o
Sorry getting carried away there :oops:
Im going to try and post some halloween pics of PM and ourselves on when i work out how to do it (not very technically minded )
Quote from: "Karen"I have to say that Phanton Manor really is the most amazing attraction at DLRP if it wasnt there I probably wouldnt go :shock:
I agree!
I read somewhere, wikipedia I think it was, that the tea set inside the gazebo was automated. Meaning the cups moved by themselves at some point. Is this true? Does anyone have video of this ever happening? :)
It's a fun idea but I doubt that it ever happened. It's not mentioned in any official documents I've seen. I'd suspect it's one of the ever-growing urban legends surrounding early DLP, like recollections of prospectors' animatronics at BTM.
I found the link on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Manor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Manor%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
...here's part of it
"A derelict gazebo stands on the lawn that has a tea set laid out. Originally, these used to move to mimic two people pouring and drinking tea. The gazebo also contains a music box playing within (since 2001, this music box track is also used in Disneyland's Haunted Mansion for use on the Haunted Mansion Holiday annual seasonal overlay)"
I have a copy of a maintenance document from 1991 which lists all animated props; the gazebo had none whatsoever. That said, it wouldn't be the only mistake on that Wikipedia page. I'd have to take the time to weed through that some day.
It seems the Haunted Mansions around the world are the attractions with the most urban myths and legends. The Hat Box Ghost etc...
Oh, absolutely. The number of different versions of the Phantom Manor story you'll find on the internet are a good example of that. And our Manor is relatively young compared to the Haunted Mansions. What we're missing so far are the "real ghost" stories found at DL and WDW...
The sensational "Haunted Mansion: From the Magic Kingdom to the Movies" gives one of the few "true accounts" of the Phantom Manor story.
It also highlights the reasons why the original Haunted Mansion was so popular. I love the fact the facade of the Mansion lay undisturbed for many years before the attraction opened and that Walt himself went "ghost hunting" in Britain to sell "after-lifetime leases" to the homeless spirits of The Blitz.
Quote from: "Magic M"The sensational "Haunted Mansion: From the Magic Kingdom to the Movies" gives one of the few "true accounts" of the Phantom Manor story.
Right. That and "From Sketch to Reality".
You'll also find an account (//http://www.ravenswood-manor.com/legend1.html) of the story on my website which is based on those two accounts, evidence in the parks, internal WDI documents and correspondence with the original Imagineers.
A little fun fact: the original story was going to be much more complex and featured two more Ravenswood family members whose tombs you'd even see on Boot Hill... in the end it was somewhat simplified.
Walt's search seems to have been successful as several Haunted Mansion CMs can tell some really convincing and creepy stories of real ghosts they've encountered when they were in the attraction on their own.
Just looking through a few pics and I realised that The Hat Box Ghost makes an appearance in PM as the ticket seller ghost!
According to the Etnaland home page, it seems that Phantom Manor recieved an update in the form of being moved to another park? I know DLP likes to move the location of attractions around for their promo photos, but to a whole new park is new to me!
//http://www.etnaland.eu/en/
I'm new to this whole topic conversation but was intrigued by the idea that PM might get an overhaul for the 20th.
I love PM! It's one of my faves, frontierland being one of my fave lands too! As much as I already love it tho I do think some tweaks could only make it better!
They have so much rich space to work with within the queuing system I can't halp but think more things could be placed to freak us out whilst we wait! I love boothill but again, some new quirky graves, random sound effects wouldn't go amiss surely?
I love the idea that there was once a Grimm reaper! I've never seen any 'characters' around that area, not even at Halloween!
I'm also a hitchhiking ghost fan and would love some more of they're mythology.
WDW goes all out on their HM what's the harm in us being treated to some new effects. The main theme, story and history of the current doesn't have go change to be improved.
I'm going in 6 weeks so shall keep my peepers open for anything 'out of the ordinary....' mwa ha ha ha ;)
Quote from: "DGRavenswood"A little fun fact: the original story was going to be much more complex and featured two more Ravenswood family members whose tombs you'd even see on Boot Hill... in the end it was somewhat simplified.
Do you know more about that fact (and want to tell it to us ;)) ? Always fascinating how complex the PM story is, even if it's a great pity that parts of the mansion like the carriage house weren't realized or that Boot Hill is smaller than planned...If I were a billionair, I would sponsor these updates ;)
Quote from: "Patrick89"Do you know more about that fact (and want to tell it to us ;)) ? Always fascinating how complex the PM story is, even if it's a great pity that parts of the mansion like the carriage house weren't realized or that Boot Hill is smaller than planned...If I were a billionair, I would sponsor these updates ;)
I do know a little more but it would probably be a little too in-depth for this topic. I'll try to take some time to write it up and post it somewhere; I'll let you know.
Quote from: "DGRavenswood"Quote from: "Patrick89"Do you know more about that fact (and want to tell it to us ;)) ? Always fascinating how complex the PM story is, even if it's a great pity that parts of the mansion like the carriage house weren't realized or that Boot Hill is smaller than planned...If I were a billionair, I would sponsor these updates ;)
I do know a little more but it would probably be a little too in-depth for this topic. I'll try to take some time to write it up and post it somewhere; I'll let you know.
Please, I'd be interested too.
As requested...
To celebrate the 20th anniversary of Phantom Manor, here's the original story of the Ravenswood family in detail, courtesy of Jeff Burke who was so kind to share it.
The Other Legend of Phantom Manor (//http://www.ravenswood-manor.com/2012/otherlegend.html)
It's intriguing to speculate how the attraction would have turned out if all the original elements had been left in place.
The detail behind this attraction never fails to amaze me. If the ride was updated it would be nice if some elements of this story were introduced.
Thank you for sharing =D>
I agree, though I hope they wouldn't change too much in the process.
Fun that Tony Baxter would share "his" version of the Phantom Manor story just a few hours after I posted this... and that it has little to do with the official version. :)
Yeah. It was quite interesting when I heard it, while I was there. I've always related the story to Great Expectations, but only loosely. It never seemed like the bride was throwing her boucay at the end.
(Speaking of which, the ghosts in the mirrors weren't working. :( )
Well, like he said, it was one possible interpretation. There are definitely hundreds of individual versions of the story and I wouldn't dismiss any of them... The Imagineers intentionally left a lot open for interpretation.
However, as someone who has spent ages trying to track down the original storyline which served as a sort of "foundation" to the ride's creation, I was very lucky to have had the chance to ask the Imagineer who came up with it.
Yeah, it's really amazing that you managed to get it! I wasn't aware that Henry had a brother. Also, it's now confirmed that Henry is the phantom. But I guess the rest is up to our own interpretation; like what actually happens in the house during the ride. Maybe the house just became haunted, after the groom was hanged, and Melody has been trapped in the house with ghosts, until her death. So I can understand Tony Baxter's interpretation.
We went on the guided tour of the park yesterday, and the guide was telling us about the story of Phantom Manor. It was mostly what you mentioned on your site, but it was interesting to actually hear it from a cast member.
I remember Tony was talking -- in the presentation -- about having dialogues from Vincent Price played during the ride (if I heard him correctly). It would be good if the doombuggies got updated and we could choose if we wanted either a French or English narration.
Quote from: "Josh"I remember Tony was talking -- in the presentation -- about having dialogues from Vincent Price played during the ride (if I heard him correctly). It would be good if the doombuggies got updated and we could choose if we wanted either a French or English narration.
Actually, there was never any dialogue recorded for the ride itself. The spiel Vincent Price did was a slightly extended version of the current French narration. He recorded it in French and English... His accent was deemed too strong on the French version and the English one was rejected by DLP staff. So in the end they recorded a slightly shorter version with a French actor and voice artist who had dubbed Vincent Price in the past.
Tony also misremembered that Vincent Price recorded a scream for the stretch room finale... he rather did all the Phantom's laughter as Osvaldo correctly noted in his French translation.
As for Henry Ravenswood's brother, like I wrote, he ended up on the "cutting room floor" so Henry was promoted to sole owner of Big Thunder and Phantom Manor.
In these days there is a lot of talks about bringing back Vincent Price's narrations. It would change only the Foyer and Stretch Room voices, from French to English, right?
It would concern the foyer, the stretch room and the portrait gallery. Possibly the load area as well, as the original narration was slightly longer. Vincent Price recorded the spiel both in English and in French so it would have to be seen which one would be used.
Does anyone know that actual chances of the change happening? I'd absolutely love if it did. Phantom Manor isn't quite as creepy when you don't understand what's being said.
Quote from: "DGRavenswood"Vincent Price recorded the spiel both in English and in French so it would have to be seen which one would be used.
They could even use both, or cut them together, if the Suits didn't want the ride entirely in English.
Was there a precise reason for the Officials wanting the ride entirely in French? They didn't seem to insist it with any other attractions. Peter Pan for example, which is all in English (I think, correct me if I'm wrong.)
Well, Phantom Manor is partially in English... Madam Leota and the Little Bride alternate both languages, as do the safety spiels. The Mayor has all-English dialogue.
Apart from the safety spiels, Peter Pan is completely in French, actually.
I think the general rule was for French to be the dominant language in narration and dialogue, the park being in France. While alternating both languages would have been possible it wouldn't necessarily have been very natural. A switch as in Tower of Terror would be a solution but I wonder how often they actually use it over there...
Quote from: "DGRavenswood"A switch as in Tower of Terror would be a solution but I wonder how often they actually use it over there...
I got mixed up once. I thought it was the PM that had the French/English switch. I was quite embarrassed when the cast member said, "It's only in French. Sorry." XD
I think an English version would be very useful. When I've been to DLP two years ago and took some friends with me for whom it was the first visit, they just perceived PM as a "normal" ghost house. When hearing that, I was shocked and couldn't understand how anyone could call PM an average haunted house. But especially after my trip to Europa Park last week, I had to admit that if you don't know anything about the story of an attraction, a lot of its fascination and fun is lost. Of course Europa Park rides can't compete against DLP rides, but nevertheless, if you are not aware of the storyline, you tend to assess the attraction in a different way.
When I was younger, I didn't understand very much of the French introduction of PM. My enthusiasm about this ride arose when I really understood what the ride is about in the internet (thanks to DGRavenswood's website ;) ) and in "From sketch to reality". Growing older, also my French improved, so today it wouldn't be a problem to get what the Phantom narrates. But what about people not speaking French fluently? They ride PM without even guessing how great this attraction is. Especially in Frontierland, which is held in English everywhere, I don't understand why this important piece of information has to be French. Of course, we are in France, but at least there should be the possibility of an switch between English and France.
In ToT you have at least subtitles, even if this won't be realizable in PM.
So I prefer an English narration, as it would allow a lot more people to understand what PM is about. It is a shame that many people cannot appreciate this great ride just because they don't understand French...
Well... it's an interesting argument and I'm really glad that my website helped someone appreciate the attraction even more.
However I actually think that the content of the current Phantom's spiel doesn't help in any way in understanding the story. The original Vincent Price spiel entered into a little more detail but the current one is intentionally vague. Most of the attraction is visual and non-verbal, i.e. music, sound effects... Just about the biggest hint is actually given in English by Madame Leota: "Join now the spirits in nuptial doom... A ravishing bride, a vanishing groom."
Where I agree is that the knowledge that there is a story enhances the experience. Phantom Manor had always been in my top 3 list (I recently found an actual top 10 list I made after my second visit in 1993...) but it became my favorite when I started digging a little deeper. Part of that was also inspired by discussion on the internet but I obviously didn't have my own site to thank. ;)
For the record, though, I've been to many haunted house attractions and even in terms of basic showmanship few of them are in the same league as Phantom Manor. Especially not Europa Park's! I like Europa Park a lot but when it comes to dark rides, well... the less said the better.
By the way, thanks for sharing this other story of Phantom Manor! Sorry if it's a stupid question, but how did you get in contact with Jeff Burke? I think it's really great that he shares so much of his knowledge with the fans of Phantom Manor. This amount of "fan contact" seems to be totally unusual for members of the Disney company ;)
Of course you are right, the spiel doesn't expose many information about the storyline. I have to admit, I also prefer the French voice over Vincent Price's spiel (but only the voice, not the language ;) ). Nevertheless, I think that by understanding at least the introductory spiel, your interest would be raised in a much higher amount than if you are just standing there and understanding nothing. But I think it's difficult for me, as I've dealt a lot with PM and immersed in the secrets of the mansion, to say what people will focus their attention on at their first ride. Most likely, most of people will talk to their friends all during the queue and are not too interested in a storyline ;)
It's strange with Europa Park. I think most of their scenery is pretty well, but the attraction's themselves...Lets draw a veil of silence over it. It's fun riding them once or twice, but I prefer themed rides over isolated steel-rollercoasters...
Quote from: "Patrick89"By the way, thanks for sharing this other story of Phantom Manor! Sorry if it's a stupid question, but how did you get in contact with Jeff Burke? I think it's really great that he shares so much of his knowledge with the fans of Phantom Manor.
It is! I count myself really lucky. Jeff and several of his team members (Pat Burke, Julie Svendsen, Greg Meader, Craig Fleming, Katherine Meyering...) kindly contacted me after a few years of writing about Phantom Manor on my website and a few other outlets. They're all great and incredibly generous with their insights and anecdotes regarding the creation of Phantom Manor and Frontierland in general. As they're no longer working for WDI (to Disney's loss) they also have a certain liberty to talk about these projects.
QuoteOf course you are right, the spiel doesn't expose many information about the storyline. I have to admit, I also prefer the French voice over Vincent Price's spiel (but only the voice, not the language ;) ). Nevertheless, I think that by understanding at least the introductory spiel, your interest would be raised in a much higher amount than if you are just standing there and understanding nothing.
You probably have a point there. It might be slightly more engaging if you can follow the dialogue from the start. But that's a huge problem in Europe and even a combination of French and English wouldn't solve it completely. Perhaps a few more visual clues could help? What if e.g. the Foyer mirror would "magically" show us some more of the story?
QuoteIt's strange with Europa Park. I think most of their scenery is pretty well, but the attraction's themselves...Lets draw a veil of silence over it. It's fun riding them once or twice, but I prefer themed rides over isolated steel-rollercoasters...
Yes, I was really impressed when I first went; unlike Disney even their restrooms are extremely well themed and of course they have some great thrill rides. But when it comes to dark rides and scenic rides, which just happen to be my favorites, well... Let's say that there's room for improvement.
Sorry, but I don't wanna to create a new thread for this question: it is possible to wander in the corridor after the Stretch Room as long as you want, or you must stay with your group? It will be even possible to wait here the next group that comes from the other Stretch Room?
Well... generally it' s a bad idea to split up in a haunted house... But if you're feeling brave, not a soul will keep you from lingering behind. On busy days, the following group will join the queue at the Grand Staircase after a minute anyway.
I must confess I was really disappointed on my ride throughs the other week (even my kids noticed the missing effects). Melanie now her face covered in all the scenes, the phantom's mouth was no longer working. Only a couple of skeletons worked. The mayor was not working either, he was talking, but not moving his head at all, it was looking down all the time, and there was no phantom in the mirror. It was a real shame.
Off topic, but similar stories elsewhere. The cayote was not working on the arch. Big thunder mountain had no working AA's, the waterfall was off, the opposums were missing, and of course the boulders no longer move after the accident.
PotC - the lift chains were not working, the woman in the barrel was missing, and the duelling pirates had a big shade over them so they were no longer there.
IASW - the Irish kids no longer danced, nor did the hula or african drummers. The cleo scene was not working. The Indian girls were not moving properly, and in the finale, about 20% of the aa's were static.
I was very surprised as the park looked great otherwise, but there were so many AA's down. THat does not happen in Tokyo and is rare in California, i am used to it at WDW, but DLP surprised me given how they wanted to restore the place for the 20th!
Dave, are you really surprised that so many AAs didn't work? It's been that way for several years now. The improvement of the park was more like a cosmetic makeover, like Project Sparkle at DCA. Not a single ride did get a big maintenance makeover.
Quote from: "Simba 27"Sorry, but I don't wanna to create a new thread for this question: it is possible to wander in the corridor after the Stretch Room as long as you want, or you must stay with your group? It will be even possible to wait here the next group that comes from the other Stretch Room?
Yes I have done this a few times. Watching the paintings, Just let the people after you pass.
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Melanie now her face covered in all the scenes
That's not really an upkeep issue; they added a veil in front of her face(s) in 2008, perhaps to make her look more "mysterious." It was done at the same time as the refurbished Leota and the removal of background projections in the Seance Circle.
Quote from: "DGRavenswood"Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Melanie now her face covered in all the scenes
That's not really an upkeep issue; they added a veil in front of her face(s) in 2008, perhaps to make her look more "mysterious." It was done at the same time as the refurbished Leota and the removal of background projections in the Seance Circle.
It's a tad unrealistic - if the candelabra on the first Melanie were real, she'd set herself ablaze :|
I wonder how these fit in with Phantom Manor beguiling backstory...
http://disneyandmore.blogspot.co.uk/200 ... manor.html (http://disneyandmore.blogspot.co.uk/2008/05/secret-letters-of-dlps-phantom-manor.html%22%20onclick=%22window.open(this.href);return%20false;)
Ah, the famous love letters...
I think it's important to note that they were never intended to be seen by guests. As Alain writes, they were obviously written by a French set dresser brought in from the outside and so they probably don't reflect the show producer and show writer's version of the story. Also mind that they're hard to decipher even in person so I've seen a number of somewhat different transcripts over the years.
They're a neat curiosity but don't expect any particular insight from them as many fans (myself included) have in the past!
A great note - thanks DGRavenswood!
Why would Disney let such a noticeable affect like the mirrors go missing for so long. I just read a trip on another forum and the mirrors are still not working! :evil:
Here my wishful thinking they are updating the mirrors to new WDW effect. Just my wishful thinking. :P
I read in the DLP 20th Anniversary book that they're planning to update the Phantom Manor, BTM, PotC and Star Tours. It's possible that they're planning the new mirrors. It wouldn't be the hitchhiking ghosts, though, so I'm not sure what the green ghoul would do. XD
Sound really promising! Really hope these updates come to light.
On my recent trip back to DLRP for the 20th, me and my parents went on it for the first time - (was going to on previous trips but had no time/long line) as it was raining we had some time to kill so we waited. The queue was moving fast and it was promising that we would get on within 20 minutes.
I went on The Haunted Mansion in DLC and my dad has been on the one in WDW back in the 80s' so we were looking foward to seeing DLPs version and my mum hasn't seen it before.
We were all placed in the first room of course and the music was playing -blah blah. We waited 5 minutes and then we had cast members running in and out the doors and speaking french - so we didn't understand a word of what was going on - until the family next to us sighed and sat on the floor. Long story short we were in the first room for 20 minutes waiting. We then got to the stretch room (was boring compared to DLC) and to the main-room with the seats. They were all empty. It then stopped and we were told 10 minutes due to (technical difficulties) we then saw a couple just randomly on one of the seats. It was very strange.
Well we finally got on the ride and it was boring! Compared to the one in DLC it was WAY to dark (as in - scary) and it was just missing something. Even the famous ball-room scene was lame.
At the end - during the mirror sequence where a ghost sits in your seat like in DLC and WDW - Never occurred. It was my dads favourite thing and it never happened. So we were extremely disappointed.
I will go on it again in a few weeks to see if any changes in the technical department have occurred (meaning, things worked) but still. It needs an update! Compared to the one in DLC - DLC was more funny and scary at the same time - but like I said - the stretch room was anti-climatic.
Still - UPDATE!
Is there a difference in the stretching rooms, other than the portraits and the audio? :?
Quote from: "Josh"Is there a different in the stretching rooms, other than the portraits and the audio? :)
Well, there's the lack of the creepy cohesive story :lol:
Quote from: "Josh"Is there a difference in the stretching rooms, other than the portraits and the audio? :?
I thought there was... with the ---
[spoiler:bgstxewd]hanging body - seemed more gruesome in Cal and in Paris it wasn't really shown - to much lightening. Unless it was just me.[/spoiler:bgstxewd]
That's just because the effect was broken. Mind you, I've always struggled to see it really well. But I think it's way more gruesome that the phantom is hanging the bridegroom, rather than the person being hanged is the Ghost Host. :D
But you're right that it has a really dark genre. I doubt Walt would have approved of it. XD
Apparently PM was struck by lightning! :shock:
Noooooo, was there much damage?
Mirrors not working on our trip (19th-25th May 2012). Whole attraction look little boring in comparison with last trip in 2008...
Yeah the mirrors weren't working for me either, when I rode it on Saturday the 12th of May 2012.
They still aren't working? It must be serious, then. Maybe the models are just being repaired?
Oh, and we were already wondering why there was no ghost in the mirror anymore, we thought it was only a temprary problem
Maybe it's the bad influence of the neighboring geysers, because they aren't working for years, too ;)
Quote from: "Patrick89"Maybe it's the bad influence of the neighboring geysers, because they aren't working for years, too ;)
now that you mention it...never noticed that, shows how little attention I pay to that distant corner. Or maybe I was just too busy cheking if any Weeping Angels might have been hiding on Boot Hill...just imagine exiting Phantom manor and facing one of these, and all the brits go: "don't. Blink."
Something that might be rather awesome as well could be live actors inside the ride or the que or just being around the estate. I remember in the late 90ies, there was one person going around in the queue dressed up as the grim reaper...I think we might weven have a picture with him cathing dust somewhere...
@Thaliel: That sounds like a great idea about the live actors! When I have been in the past the CMs in charge of the ride have always been convincing and really added to the ride, but extra actors with more of a 'character' would be great too! In fact it would be a welcome addition to any land, especially to fill in the time between the 'real' characters coming out. For example I've seen lots of people having photographs taken with the Thunder Mountain CMs, so imagine what it would be like if there were 'real' cowboys etc. walking around! Great idea, you've got me thinking now! ;)
Where Manor updates are conerned; yes its in need of some... or at least a referb. But I'm not sure how they can update the Phantom in the mirror scene; yes there's the new interactive Hitchhikers at WDW... but that's not exactly the Phantom's style is it? Hmmm.
And they used to have the Phantom wandering around the queue area didn't they?
Last week the ghost was back in the mirror and for the first time I also noticed arms around the edge of the Doom Buggy. Has that effect always been there and I've just not noticed.
A number of the AA's were not working, the Mayor was static with his head in his outstreached hand and a number of dancing ghosts in the ballroom scene were not moving. It was really dark in some places and much too fast.
Excellent CM's as usual. On one ride the audio stopped working in the stretching room so the CM gave the speech instead. It was the only time people actually shut up to listen to it.
I'm not sure; concepts etc. have always said that the arms were at the side of the buggy but I've not noticed them even on pics. Interesting that they're they're now.
Thanks for the update; I hope they can get the AAs working soon.
Quote from: "MrsPirate"It was really dark in some places and much too fast.
Oh, I'm glad it's not just me. A lot of serious maintenance is needed. Plus, when it's going to fast, the buggies are always bouncing as they turn. I doubt it takes that long to load the vehicles, so I don't see why they can't go slower.
I know its not the Manor but the Mansion has had some similar issues before; including being too dark in places and going too fast... from the reports I've heard.
Anyhow one thing I think might be good for an update with the Manor would be the piano playing shadow; maybe they could somehow get an effect similar to the one at DLR's Mansion in the attic scene.
Yes, the Phantom's arms have always been there in the mirrors.
And I don't think there's been any major change to the ride's speed, give or take a few seconds for technical reasons. Make it slower and you'll have a huge back-up queue between the stretching rooms and the load area, not to mention a longer queue in general.
But I remember the last time I rode on it, the ride slowed down for a few seconds and the doombuggies stopped bouncing left and right as they were moving. Plus, I'm sure I remember it going slower when I was younger.
I do think they could of sped them up a little if that's the case then. I'm sure I've heard reports from the Mansion that are similar (Ummm... I think anyhow...). Did the scenes in general just seem to go by faster too? Also anyone know if there is an official ride time for Phantom Manor?
And about the Phantom; is it perhaps when the mirrors etc. get dusty that the arms don't seem to appear? I've been wondering.
Quote from: "Josh"But I remember the last time I rode on it, the ride slowed down for a few seconds and the doombuggies stopped bouncing left and right as they were moving.
The ride gets slowed down to half speed on occasion to accomodate disabled visitors. This happens at the push of a button, though. Operators have no control over the ride's actual speed beyond that.
Hmm. It must be another reason for why they shake a lot.
OK, thanks. :)
Just heard the rumour that PM will get an update/immense refurb just before Halloween 2013.
Source: http://www.thethemeparkguy.com/board/di ... expansion/ (http://www.thethemeparkguy.com/board/disneyland-paris-expansion/%22%20target=%22_blank%22%20rel=%22nofollow)
Oh if the rumor is true does this mean it will reopen for Halloween next year? I'm just wondering when it will actually be closed for the update, as I want to visit next year and obviously want the Manor to be open.
Maybe I can go twice, once before update and again after. :mrgreen:
Immense refurb sounds awesome, because it seemed that all of the "classic" rides like PotC, PM, BTM etc. were a little bit neglected recently. They should try to improve the shadow effect of the piano player, because the current one looks some kind of awkward...
By the way, concerning PM: Is it only my impression that close to nobody actually notices the changing paintings between the elevators and bording area? Everybody seems to hurry to get to the Doom Buggies without allowing any glance to their surrounding area . Two years ago on a rainy Octobre evening, besides me and two friends of mine, there were only about 10 other persons queuing with us. We quit the elevator first and stopped in front of the paintings with ostenation - suddenly everybody was extremely interested in them, and there was even a CM coming to see why all the people took so long to get to the boarding area ;)
I just hope they don't change too much if they do update it. Referb is great; and maybe a few extras... but nothing crazy. I guess the new WDW mirror effect would be okay, as long as they change it to more suit the Phantom.
About the paintings: Most folks tend to just hurry to the ride in all the Mansions; but the thing is with the DLR version and Phantom Manor if you stand around near the pantings and everyone else has gone to the ride... you get a good sense of atmosphere in that area until the next stretching room arrives.
Here's something that's relevant to our discussion of the original narration...
I had the occasion to upload a video of the 1990 recording sessions with Vincent Price, featuring some of his outtakes. You can hear some snippets of the original French narration and see him do his incredible laugh.
(//http://www.ravenswood-manor.com/social/VPStill.jpg)
You can watch it on my Facebook page here (//http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=432342850174579). (No need to sign up.)
What a gem! Thanks so much for posting!
I think I'll watch it again just to see him do that epic laugh!
It still surprises me that he died so soon after this recording. This is around the time where his smoking really started to impact his health, but he's still so energetic.
Quote from: "Columbiad"What a gem! Thanks so much for posting!
I second that!
I'd love to see updates at the Manor, it's one of my favourite rides and it makes me sad to think that the whole area is being neglected :/
As for having characters in the queues, I don't suppose they'd allow me to dress up and stand in the line? xD haha
when riding it for the first time last month, I noticed that it looked really "run down" (ironic considering the house is supposed to be) but I could tell most of the effects not working , like the mirror and the ballroom