... because it could be a little bit frustrating or disappointing - possibly you will be a bit angry about MY point of view. Anyway I would like to hear your opinion, about my little Tripreport.
Before I start, let me explain one thing: I have always been a huge fan of DLP. And I´m still. But this time was the first trip to DLP ever, I wasn´t sad when we had leave back home. It was the most unmagical trip I ever had :cry: :cry: :cry:
So let me start and explain the most important points!
State of the parks
I have never seen the parks in such a bad condition. So many of the facades and buildings look horrible. They look old. Shabby and worn out.
The only part they try to keep in good condition is MainStreet. Sure, thats the place you see first when you enter. But all the others parts just made me sad and furious about how the management maltreats this beautiful park, that all the great Imagineers bequeathed them.
Here are just a few examples. But I could show you hundrets!
Lets start with Captain Hooks Pirate Ship. It was closed. The paint is peeling and all the proud of this wonderful ship was gone:
(//http://pp.mousekingdom.com/albums/userpics/11737/hook.jpg)
Roaming a bit forward, we had lunch at Pizza Outpost. I always loved this place because of its geat atmposphere. Again, this restaurant looked Shabby, worn out and dirty.
Outside, again the paint was peeling everywhere. The balustrade looked old and rotten and moss and dirt everywhere
(//http://pp.mousekingdom.com/albums/userpics/11737/PizzaOutpost2.jpg)
Inside Pizza Outpost the restaurant was just a fade of the glorious standart it once had.
The floor: Dirty. The electric candles inside the lamps: Broken and filthy with old tomato sauce. Nobody knows when someone cleaned it the last time
(//http://pp.mousekingdom.com/albums/userpics/11737/PizzaOutpost1.jpg)
Another example - Lets go to Fantasyland. We all know in which bad state our beautiful castle is. But when will finally the management will do something?
(//http://pp.mousekingdom.com/albums/userpics/11737/schloss.jpg)
Just behind the castle we visited l´Auberge de Cendrillion. Again the same sad pitiable sight. How do you feel, when you see this beautiful building in such bad condition?
(//http://pp.mousekingdom.com/albums/userpics/11737/auberge.jpg)
As I said, I could show you so much more of frustraiting pics. But let me show you just one more at last. The Hollywood Hills at the studios
Directly when you leave Studio 1, you see the wallpaper is dissolving
(//http://pp.mousekingdom.com/albums/userpics/11737/studios1.jpg)
Everywhere you can see the broken paper, that destroys the illusion of this backdrop.
(//http://pp.mousekingdom.com/albums/userpics/11737/studios2.jpg)
So lets come to the next point....
Service and quality
I would never say any word of criticism if I had one or two bad experiences. But the mass of sad things I saw made me angry. The Employees were bad arranged. Slow. Unstructured and uninformed. Additionally was some of the quality a desaster! Here are just some examples:
- Waiting time at "Restaurant en Coulisse", just to buy a coffee. 25 Minutes!!!! Imporant to say: It was 3 pm and just families who ordered before me
- We had a reservation for Cafe Mickey for 8 pm. We got our table at 8.45 and had to wait the whole 45 minutes outside... and it was really cold!
- Waiting time at "Pizza Outpost", 20 Minutes! It was 4 pm and just ONE families that ordered before me
- We spent one evening at Sequoia Lodge. Ordered a coffee and a cocktail. This was a brashness. 4 month ago, the coffee was cooked freshly and the cocktails were made with fresh fruit juice. This time, the coffee came from the coffee dispenser with milk powder and instead of fruit juice we got cheap syrup. All for the same price as 4 months ago!
- on and on and on
State of attractions
Sure, they always rehab some. But I hardly saw one attraction where everything worked. The sadest examples:
- Headache Mountain - Mission 2
Broken Lights and effects, no Music on the trains, rough, bumpy and a lot of people who said, they will never return to this roller coaster
- Buzz Lightyear Laser Blast
We rode it 5 times. And everytime, there wasn´t just one gun that worked without broken defects. Broke sounds, broken laser, broken lights.
Furthermore so many of the targets were broken
And I was shocked about the state of the waiting area
(//http://pp.mousekingdom.com/albums/userpics/11737/buzz.jpg)
- Its a small world
So many broken dolls. I even saw a doll, where a complete hand was missing and there was huge crack from the mouth to the neck at another doll
Halloween
Boy it was the most disappointing Halloween-Season I ever saw at DLP.
Such a big cut of decorations, shows and innovation.
No street animation, like they did the last years. Just ONE show at Cowboy Cookout instead of 3 or four the last years. And this one show even was cut on Mondays and Tuesdays. Sensless Placement of decorations like the big skull on town square.
And the only "innovative" show addition was a disputable appearence of the villians at "Party time...." on Central Plaza. Boy I have never seen such a crap. Who writes such storyboards? It looked so absurd, when all the villians jumped and clapped their hands through the music of "Party time...."
(//http://pp.mousekingdom.com/albums/userpics/11737/jafar.jpg)
Jafar animating the audience to dance :?
Does anybody thinks about the show before it is shown to everyone?
OK - now I told you all my frustration.
Don´t know what to say anymore. Maybe just one thing: I hope sometime, they will wake up and make DLP to the great place it once was!!!!!
oh my god ! whats happend to our magical home ?! Isn't it odd that the pople of Disney care about its customers , but they don;t care about their buildings and attractions ? I think we should go up to them with big signs saying 'FIX UP DISNEYLAND PARIS NOW!'
Who agrees ?
Poor you , sorry about your trip :(
There is still a LOT of magic at DLP, but I do agree with most of what you've said.
Captain Hook's Pirate Ship is probably most in need of a drastic refurb right now, but you caught Auberge du Cendrillon too, which I also noticed looking really... grey myself. Only thing I think you missed was Adventureland Bazaar. Never spotted the peeling backdrops at WDS though, that's really bad. And Colonel Hathi's seems to swing wildly between suddenly looking ok and suddenly looking like it's been decaying for years.
Even if this is depressing to see, thanks for posting. It's important someone picks up on stuff like this.
Thanks for the photos.
Despite the recent improvements with maintenance at the parks, you can't deny it's still pretty bad. Sure, there are a few areas which have improved (like the Labyrinth and Treehouse), but there's still loads which still needs some some serious work. You should send those photos to DLP through email or something. It annoys me how they choose to spend their money on crap like Mickey's Magical Party instead of much more important things like this.
And sadly these are just a few of the problems with the resort right now.
So did anything good happen on your trip? Surely it wasn't all bad. :wink:
for me its nice to see someone to actuly pick up on the bad parts of the trip and so many of them!
DLP should realy look at these problems maybe they think its minor? but for us it is big issues when ou are such big fans of DLP as well it just makes you sad to see it in such a big state
Maybe they should scrap the refurb of Studio 1 and the TV Studio's (which they seem to of anyway) and focus on the parts that actuly NEED to be re-painted etc rather than the parts that dont?
Oh what a shame, I do hope there were some good points to your visit for you. I get so excited by being there that I think I look through rose coloured specs half the time! When you see photos like yours it is hard to turn a blind eye - lets hope Management pick up on these reviews and do something about the problems. I am still soooo looking forward to my trip in January but I will try to notice more where things need to shape up and will be sure to write to Customer services - I presume you did? Welcome back and sorry it was not so magical for you this time.
The thing is, when they built in the north of France they always knew the weather was not going to be like Florida and that rain was a frequent guest- hence it causes more damage to buildings and structure - yet they obviously aren't doing regular maintence.
Your photos are shocking to be honest, you should email them to them lol :P :wink: Might make them get onto these things.
I have to say I was in the park a few weeks ago and I didn't notice these things and I don't think the general customer would unless they were looking out for them...however....and thats a big however... a doll with a missing hand in IASW :o :shock: :o that's just completely disgraceful! :(
I have to say I also noticed bad service and waiting times in counter service restraunts, particularly Restraunt en coulisse in studio 1 - there was no one on the tills, just one person serving where you normally collected your food... I was waiting for about 20 or 30 minutes! :roll: However I do try to forgive these type of things, it's just a pity when it happens really.
My friend went to DLP last week and her comment on space mountain was that she came off with many bruises!! :shock: Although I think she enjoyed the ride anyway.
I also seen my friends NSSHP on her home video and it was brilliant although I can only imagine how bad the villians doing MMP dance was :roll: lol I was disappointed to see the stars and cars, cars used in the cavalcade also, I can only assume they are cost cutting which is sad to see.
I do hope they get onto more maintance work and I am sorry that you didn't feel the magic this time and you are completely welcome to your opinion and to say what you feel in your trip report and I don't think anyone should attack someone else for that even if they don't agree.
I agree with a lot of what you say but I have to say I still feel theres so many wonderful aspects to the parks and I find the magic still comes to me even if the buildings are a bit run down at the moment and stuff.
:D
You've got a point, but those things don't bother me as much. Maybe it's because I only visit DLRP once a year, but I look through all those things. For me it's still the most magical place on earth, despite some lack of paint and some poor service now and then. Still looking forward to my trip anyway!
Quote from: "Anthony"Only thing I think you missed was Adventureland Bazaar.
Indeed! Its fading more and more into grey. It urgendly needs fresh paint!
Quote from: "RnRCj"Despite the recent improvements with maintenance at the parks, you can't deny it's still pretty bad..... It annoys me how they choose to spend their money on crap like Mickey's Magical Party instead of much more important things like this.
I think the main problem is: The longer they wait to fix or maintain things, the more they have to do and the more money they have to spend! And this money they don´t want to spend. A vicious circle they urgendly have to break!
And I just can´t agree RnRcj! I can´t believe how many Castmember they have to pay for this bad bad show.
Quote from: "RnRCj"So did anything good happen on your trip? Surely it wasn't all bad. :wink:
Hehe :P Yes! I still love DLP. And thats the reason why I´m so worried about the state of so many things. The best Moment was during MNSSHP. While everyone was watching the shows, we went to PM -- and were completely ALONE inside the elevator AND during the whole ride. WOW. That was magical AND scary :P
Quote from: "bigrossco"for me its nice to see someone to actuly pick up on the bad parts of the trip and so many of them!
Thany you :-) I really wasn´t sure if I should write such a frustrating Trip Report
Quote from: "brenjo"I am still soooo looking forward to my trip in January but I will try to notice more where things need to shape up and will be sure to write to Customer services
Yes! Have a great time and enjoy your stay. I don´t want to corrupt your anticipation! DLP still has the magic.
But they have to work hard, not to loose it! I hope you will have a great trip.
Quote from: "Aveen2008"I have to say I was in the park a few weeks ago and I didn't notice these things and I don't think the general customer would unless they were looking out for them.
Hmmm - we visited the parks with my sisters boyfried - a Disneyland firsttimer. And he noticed many things immediately.
His first words when we left Studio 1 and entered the Hollywood Blvd were: "Uhhh - this backdrop looks really cheap."
Sure - there are many things a normal visitor doesn´t notice on the first view. But a good-conditioned park makes the trip much more magical and perfect. Even if it is in their subconscious.
Quote from: "Annet"those things don't bother me as much.
It should! Who else could wake up the management and show them their mistakes if we, the fans, don´t do it!
I don't disagree with you that this isn't the way it should be but I guess they are just slacking and as rnrcj said I wish they would stop putting money into other things and focus on these jobs.
I would quite happily not have toy story land and have these jobs done plus a re-vamp of the studio tram tour which is an embarressment to the studios and disney in my opinion! :roll:
Quote from: "Aveen2008"I wish they would stop putting money into other things and focus on these jobs.
You are so right!!!!!!!
Maybe you should send the pictures to DLRP management and hopefully they will reply.
Nevertheless I'm visiting only once a year and for me DLRP is still a magical place. In 2008 we visited WDW and the parks over there aren't in a better shape than DLRP's parks.
When I'm visiting DLRP I try to see the positive things otherwise I wouldn't have a great time there. I'm looking forward to our next visit and really hope that DLRP management will improve the parks.
Quote from: "dagobert"Maybe you should send the pictures to DLRP management and hopefully they will reply.
Nevertheless I'm visiting only once a year and for me DLRP is still a magical place. In 2008 we visited WDW and the parks over there aren't in a better shape than DLRP's parks.
When I'm visiting DLRP I try to see the positive things otherwise I wouldn't have a great time there. I'm looking forward to our next visit and really hope that DLRP management will improve the parks.
I fully agree to this. Sure you're right, I already said this. But I can only afford one trip a year and I'm not gonna focus on the negative things then.
:( So like...did you have any fun at all on this trip? Because to me it looks as though you spent your entire trip looking for faults, which just seems a shame really. I'm sure that's not the case, so surely there's more to your trip than all this negativity?
I have to say that when I was there in the summer I did not notice half the problems that you have highlighted in your report. Probably that was due to the large crowds. However I will be there in a few weeks times so I will be able to take more interest in the decline of the park. In the past it is the hotels which I have in the main been very critical of :( It is really depressing for me to find that lack of maintanance is now seriously affecting the look of the park.
No matter what anyone says, it is the Disneyland Park which is the main attraction of this resort :( I can just about put up with the Hotels being scruffy and of appalling value, I can tolerate the village with it's serious lack of imagination, I can even tolerate the studios being remarkably tatty for such a new park :x but to allow a serious decline in the Disneyland Park is to show a horrible lack of understanding in how important it is to the health of the resort. :roll:
For a few bob more I could visit WDW and the way things are going that may well happen. My November trip may well determine if I will be going by eurostar or flying across the Atlantic for my next summer holiday :wink:
I noticed some of the issues you mention too - especially the lack of exterior refurbishment and especially Captain Hooks Ship is a disgreaceful example of this - that was the saddest sight of our trip.
As I have said in my report IASM was in a very sad state too, but I do not quite agree with you on the part that almost every attraction lacked something - in my opinion attractions like Pirates, Fantasyland Dark Rides, BTM and PM were in very good conditions, although PM started to fail on Tuesday.
I completely agree that serious money should be invested in refurbishing some of the old magic like the many beautiful buildings and props outside the attractions that are slowly falling apart and perhaps cut down on show performers when the shows aren't better than they are...
Overall my trip was still magical though and Disneyland is still very much magical to me, but I will agree with you on some parts and if they aren't adressed sooner rather than later I will seriously start to worry about the future magic of this place :(
Quote from: "dagobert"Maybe you should send the pictures to DLRP management and hopefully they will reply.
Yes, I had the same idea... unfortunatley I don´t know any email-adress. I don´t think that the normal guest communication adress will make much sense... maybe anybody has an idea?
Quote from: "dagobert"Nevertheless I'm visiting only once a year and for me DLRP is still a magical place. In 2008 we visited WDW and the parks over there aren't in a better shape than DLRP's parks.
Hmmm - we visited WDW two years ago... and everything was in fantastic shape :?
Quote from: "forza_united"As I have said in my report IASM was in a very sad state too, but I do not quite agree with you on the part that almost every attraction lacked something - in my opinion attractions like Pirates, Fantasyland Dark Rides, BTM and PM were in very good conditions.
I can´t remember everything, but here are some things I noticed at these attractions:
Pirates:The little calamary on the treasure just behind Blue Lagoon was broken
The big chains right at the first big hill didn´t move
The imprisoned Pirates who try to get the key from the dog had no sound
One of the shadow plays inside the town didn´t work
The pirate that plays the whistle could move the whistle to his mouth anymore
BTMThe opossum(?) on the tree didn´t move
No waterfall at the end of the first big hill
No fire inside the steam-machine beside the donkeys
PMThe raven beside Mme Leota is still missing
The werewolf in front of ghost town was missing
The effect mirror at the ballroom scene is STILL too short. It cuts the heads from the dancing ghost.
The skeleton, that plays xylophone on the skulls can´t hardly move it´s arms (just a bit)
Quote from: "forza_united"Overall my trip was still magical though and Disneyland is still very much magical to me
Yes. i love this place! Thats why I´m so worried at the moment!
I know it's very sad to admit it, but you are absolutely right to say all of those things are in bad state. Some of those things arejust aweful, and do need drastic attention asap :?
Although I do agree with Ant when he says that there is still a lot of magic at the resort, and I do hope that you did have a good trip at the end of it all, even with these things you've pointed out :)
Maybe I just don't get it, but what is the point of this trip report ? Is it to put us off Disneyland Paris? If you read other trip reports, you can view many beautiful pictures of Disneyland Paris, and everything looks great. The parks are open everyday of the year in all weather. Obviously things are going to breakdown and need fixing. Paint work will get scratched, and when they've painted it how long do you think it will last before it needs painting again? With 15 million visitors a year. I agree that the resort should be kept in as good a state as possible. But if Disney close an attraction to fix it people complain about that. They don't like to find their favourite rides closed when they get there. When I went in the summer I saw many things that had been fixed inside the castle. The tree house looked great and the Labrynth. It wasn't that long ago that Captain Hooks ship was painted.
This was the state of Captain Hook's ship in 2005:
(//http://images53.fotki.com/v421/photos/8/1582018/8084725/IMGP0406-vi.jpg)
No more comments...
Apparently it doesn't look like that now. Well maybe it does from a distance.
Quote from: "ed-uk"Maybe I just don't get it, but what is the point of this trip report ?
To highlight some of the problems with DLP, and there's no denying that there are many of them. I don't see any rule that states a trip report has to be all happy-clappy "everything was great Disney can do no wrong".
The ship looks much better in never2old's photo. Not quite perfect, the red paint looks a little faded, but much better than the disgusting state it's in now.
There is no rule that a trip report has to be happy- clappy, this is true. As I said the resort should be kept in as good a state as possible. I just found the trip report rather negative. And there is no rule against saying so is there? After all it is headed "Don't read this trip report" Which does beg the question why did I bother? And we were asked to give our opinions on it. Disney may not get it right first time, but they always get it right in the end. Ok the ship does look much better in never2olds photo. But who got it looking like that? It was Disney wasn't it.
Bear in mind that those photos from MagicStar may seem drastic, but looking at them another way, they are still in the minority, even though there's probably a few more areas that need repairing.. :roll:
But putting them into context of the amount of Buildings, Attractions, Spectacles, Grounds and Walkways around the whole Resort, it can't all be done at once. It's a major task, I wouldn't like the job of correcting everything quickly on that scale.. :shock: :o
To me, on a way smaller scale, it's rather like going round your whole house putting tippex on all the marks on your skirting boards, then go around again looking for defects on the walls, then again for marks on objects within all your rooms.. :) Very time consuming, so imagine the enormity of the tasks at DLRP.. :|
At the same time, thanks for sharing those shocking photos MagicStar, now I'm really looking forward to the rest of your Trip Report.. :wink: :D
But it strikes me that some people want everything to be perfect all the time, and be faultless. I think they're doomed to disappointment. What with theme parks and hotels to maintain and keep up to scratch. The challanges are huge really. And very expensive.
Quote from: "ed-uk"But it strikes me that some people want everything to be perfect all the time, and be faultless. I think they're doomed to disappointment. What with theme parks and hotels to maintain and keep up to scratch. The challanges are huge really. And very expensive.
Thing is, it's not just one or two small problems - there's many. Loads of areas around the resort noticably need work, and it's just not acceptable. For the first few years of DLP's operation the upkeep was much better than it is now.
Quote from: "RnRCj"I don't see any rule that states a trip report has to be all happy-clappy "everything was great Disney can do no wrong".
Thank you RnRCj :D Thats what I thought, too!
I never would think of putting Disneyland Paris off to someone. As I wrote earlier, I love DLP and thats the point, why I´am worried about the actual situation!
Quote from: "ed-uk"It strikes me that some people want everything to be perfect all the time, and be faultless. I think they're doomed to disappointment. What with theme parks and hotels to maintain and keep up to scratch. The challanges are huge really. And very expensive.
Hmmmm - I´ll give you an example. Maybe not the best. But its the first, that came to my mind. If you have a child, you have to care for it. Yes, you can tell your child all the nice and good things it has done. Nevertheless, you have to show him what goes wrong, too. If you don´t, it will come on the wrong way some day.
Why not say: Hey, here something is failing. If I would want everything perfect at all time, then I wouldn´t have gone to DLP so many times!
I´m a fan and I´m visiting the Parks since 1994. And with over 40 visits now, I have seen many things and many periods of the Resort.
But there is a reason, why I wrote this Tripreport. I have NEVER seen the parks in such a bad state - In all areas.
And thats distressing. Did you ever thought about that I care for this park? I have spend some of my greatest moments of my life there.
But if something is beginning to going wrong. Why not criticize it?
You are right. They rehab things. But in it´s history, DLP has (in my experience) never had such grade of bad quality in some areas.
It is STILL a magical place. But they have to move their ***. Otherwise, they will get a huge problem in the future.
Its not enough to say: Hey the built it. So everything is ok. Mybe its the time to wake up and do something.
That doesn´t sound that good at all! I can understand why you are dissapointed.
Don´t forget: We pay a lot of money for a perfekt time and not just a ok time. That I can have at every other park in europe. (esp. if you life in germany and get NOT ONE discount!!!) They will loose guest if they don´t move their ... and make the park again shine at every land. I think the main problem is that they´ve waited tooooo long between 2003 and 2006 and now they have to do more then they could handle.
Hope they fix now the things and hope you sended this images to DLP...
Hey Riebi - Welcome back :D/
Quote from: "Riebi"I think the main problem is that they´ve waited tooooo long between 2003 and 2006 and now they have to do more then they could handle.
Hope they fix now the things and hope you sended this images to DLP...
Yepp - I sended it to DLP... and got a phone call. They apologized and said that they do their best and that they sended my mail to DLP´s Vize-President.
Quote from: "MagicStar"Yepp - I sended it to DLP... and got a phone call. They apologized and said that they do their best and that they sended my mail to DLP´s Vize-President.
Great! Let's hope it'll make at least some difference. The more people that report these problems, the more likely they will actually do something about it.
Yea there maybe alot of repairs that need doing at dlp!....but its still a magical place ! I did find it a bit dis-heartening as i am stopping at Sequoia Lodge in 3 sleeps time LOL......tbh i wont be spending any length of time at the hotel.....as long as the parades are still as good and the characters are all happy still! i cant wait for my trip ! Lets just hope they havnt cut back on the fireworks :S !
You shouldn't feel too disheartened. This is what I mean about putting people off. We stayed in the Sequoia Lodge in July and all was well. Work was going on in the park. Pathways were being repaired, Plaza Gardens was being worked on. I don't really agree with the trip report it wasn't my experience in July. Infact we noticed the things that had been fixed. It is possible to look at it like that. But obviously somebody had a miserable time there hence this trip report. They have zoomed in on the faults with a camera at close range, and have drawn these things to our attention. But when you're there most people don't view it like that. Of course if people aren't happy with the maintenance and standard of service in restaurants they can complain to EuroDisney if they wish. And I agree that service and maintenance is important. And as EuroDisney have said, they'll do their best.
Quote from: "ed-uk"But obviously somebody had a miserable time there hence this trip report. They have zeroed in on the faults with a camera at close range. And have drawn these things to our attention. But when you're there most people don't view it like that. Of course if people aren't happy with the maintenance and standard of service in restaurants they can complain to EuroDisney if they wish. And I agree that service and maintenance is important. And as EuroDisney have said, they'll do their best.
"Somebody" had great Disney-Moments over the last years. But it should be allowed to mention bad things, too. Its even necessary. BTW: It would be nice to discuss on facts and not on sarcasm!!!
For me, Its starry-eyeing to think: Everything is perfect, cause Disney did it.
Yes, they said, they do their best. But they don´t - not at the moment!
People are allowed to mention bad things. They can and do. I don't think I said anything sarcastic. I based my comments on the trip report and the facts as I see them. We were told on the top of the trip report that our opinions were welcome.
I think some good points are brought up in the photographs of problems and current and outstanding issues. However we are subjected to nothing but images of doom and gloom (after all thats what the thread is about).
I think where the problem lies is, where does one draw a line and say what is an acceptable level of wear and tear before a refurb is required. Its totally unrealistic to say there should never be any.
In this day and age when costs are being screwed to the ground (and lets be realistic DLP had problems long before the credit crunch even started) no company can be exempt from the effects (including Disney and DLP). I have just returned last week (the TR is in the international section) from WDW and whilst the resort was absolutely spotless (but that's funded by DVC regular payments so it should be).. I could have quite easily taken similar pictures in any of the parks over there. There does tend to be a tendancy to think, but this is Disney so this can't happen, unfortunatley Disney have to live in the same real financial markets as anyone else.
A quick trip to Universal or Alton Towers quickly shows you how dirty and worn out a theme park can become however when the refurbs are cut too far back, at least there is some visual evidence at DLP that money is being spent on refurbs to some of the time, it just may not make sense to us immediatly as we don't get to see how the budget and the calander for that work has been planned.
At the moment my main concern with DLP is the lack of show style entertainment now the Lion King and Tarzan (even if it was seasonal) have been removed. When you start reducing percieved value for the tkt price your going to reduce foot flow, and when that happens your going to make funding refurbs even more difficult.
So well done for highlighting the photos and getting them (hopefully to the right person) more people really should do this to ram home that we are watching. However don't think its a unique to DLP problem; it isn't.
Quote from: "ed-uk"But it strikes me that some people want everything to be perfect all the time, and be faultless. I think they're doomed to disappointment. What with theme parks and hotels to maintain and keep up to scratch. The challanges are huge really. And very expensive.
I hate to point this one out, as many of these are off the mark. When Walt was alive and even for 30 years after, there were crews of cast members out EVERY night painting and refurbing so nothing got in this state. What changed was when Paul Pressler became the head of Disneyland, he let it rot and stopped the 3rd shift. In the end, it litterly cost lives. Sadly, he was then promoted to the head of resorts and it happened all over the globe.
It is not the Disney way. Other parks do it, but in the 54 years of Disney resorts, only the last 10 years has started the decline. How can anyone call themselves a fan and let the standards drop. It makes me sick frankly. And yes, the (poor or lack of) entertainment, the late opening and closing of attractrions, buffets everywhere, lack of maintanance, and shoddy theme incongruencies have gotten to the point where I do not want to go to DLP (It hurts too much - but my naive kids who know no better enjoy it). These posts are on here to raise awareness. The resort management team DO read the boards (and are used as some of the evidence for budgetary business cases). If you spot something in the park, raise it with city hall, or better, guest relations. But those of you who are pixie snorting pollyannas frankly make me sick, you are a part of the reason why the standards are slipping. The American management team say to themselves (the Europeans still don't know any better and they still spend their pounds and Euros with us, so why bother).
Same thing is happening in WDW.
Seems like the only place for a traditional Disney experience is in California or Japan. WDI built us one, but the last 17 years has been spent screwing it up, with the occassional improvement (ToT, Lion King/Tarzan Show etc.)
I want my local park, the one I have invested time and money in, to be the very best it can be.
I dont disagree with anything that happened all those years ago in Walts time. But modern markets are different and Disney have found themselves in financial problems over the years, ironically at the time Pressler was given the positon the board gave him the simple instructions to maximise profits and to some extent he fullfilled his brief. If blame needs laying it's at how Disney in the 80's and 90's as a company mismangaged the recession, so that they ended up having shareholders and CEOs clammering for money to come rolling in..
In an ideal world Disney should have been above all that, but it simply had got to big to fast and it had to survive in a real world.
DLP though does I agree seem to be making some odd decisions: frankly the entertainment decisions this year are diabolical to the say the least for the reasons I have given (you can't appear to cheapen your product especially when its Disney but DLP seemed determined at the moment to do so)
Agreed, you know it is bad when Legoland offers better Halloween decorations and entertainment than DLP, and Chessington offers equal decorations.
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"Agreed, you know it is bad when Legoland offers better Halloween decorations and entertainment than DLP, and Chessington offers equal decorations.
.... the same at Europa-Park
Quote from: "davewasbaloo"It is not the Disney way. Other parks do it, but in the 54 years of Disney resorts, only the last 10 years has started the decline. How can anyone call themselves a fan and let the standards drop. It makes me sick frankly. And yes, the (poor or lack of) entertainment, the late opening and closing of attractrions, buffets everywhere, lack of maintanance, and shoddy theme incongruencies have gotten to the point where I do not want to go to DLP (It hurts too much - but my naive kids who know no better enjoy it). These posts are on here to raise awareness. The resort management team DO read the boards (and are used as some of the evidence for budgetary business cases). If you spot something in the park, raise it with city hall, or better, guest relations. But those of you who are pixie snorting pollyannas frankly make me sick, you are a part of the reason why the standards are slipping. The American management team say to themselves (the Europeans still don't know any better and they still spend their pounds and Euros with us, so why bother).
I want my local park, the one I have invested time and money in, to be the very best it can be.
So, let's recap. If anyone doesn't agree with you about how you think DLP should run the resort, then they make you sick? They are the reason why, in your opinion, standards are slipping all because they don't complain and still visiting the resort?
Ok... Ever thought about that there are people that don't want/have to complain, because in their opinion, it still is the most magical place they can visit? Everybody has different standards, Dave. Yours are very high and you expect everything to be perfect. That's ok and I respect that, but please also respect the opinions of other people who are satisfied with standards that are lower then your own.
Looking at the record breaking attendance levels at DLP, most people are pleased with the current entertainment offering. I do agree with you that cancelling good shows like Tarzan and Legend of The Lion King is dissapointing, but we all know that the financial state of our resort isn't good. On top of that we have the economic crisis, which effects everything and everyone, including Disney. They have to cut on there expences, whether they like it or not. It seems like people are willing to except that all companies are cutting down on there costs, but if Disney does it, it's not acceptable anymore. We have to get through this period, Disney too. I think we will have new and bigger shows from 2011 if the next theme year ends. The economy will be better by then and DLP will have more money. 2012 will be the 20th anniversary year, so we will see new attractions, new parades and new entertainment.
Accept it and still visit the most magical place in Europe, or don't accept it and don't visit anymore. It's your choice and you're surely entitled to complain about the standards as you see them, but respect other opinions that are different then your own. :D
I guess it makes a difference if you visit the park frequently or, like me, you can only afford one trip a year. Sure it would be great if everything was always perfect, but in the few days I'm able to visit DLRP every year I'm not gonna ruin my trip by focussing on the negative stuff.
Quote from: "Tuvok"It's your choice and you're surely entitled to complain about the standards as you see them, but respect other opinions that are different then your own. :D
Thing is, 99% of people that have this opinion have not experienced the former standards of Disney. They don't know any better, so they don't complain. I can guarantee you if everyone had experienced the former standards they too would be disappointed, especially with the amount of money it costs to go there.
It's just like how
you are disappointed that the Lion King and Tarzan shows are no longer running. You have experienced them yourself, and you know how they benefit the park experience. Whereas people that are visiting the resort for the first time this year will not even know about them, so they won't complain! :wink:
Quote from: "Annet"I guess it makes a difference if you visit the park frequently or, like me, you can only afford one trip a year. Sure it would be great if everything was always perfect, but in the few days I'm able to visit DLRP every year I'm not gonna ruin my trip by focussing on the negative stuff.
This is actually a reason why the standards
should be raised. To some people Disneyland is a once in a lifetime experience, so Disney should make that experience the absolute best it can be. If people spend all that money only to find the resort is very shabby in places with weak entertainment offerings and lack of variety, they're going to feel disappointed, annoyed, and ripped off.
I'm amazed if Dave really thinks Legoland and Chessington have better Halloween themeing than Disneyland Paris. Anyway the themeing at Disneyland is far superior overall than Legoland or Chessington. Almost all the rides at Legoland are only suitable for children. And Chessington, well they specialise in steel roller coasters, and is part zoo. There's no great themeing at Chessington that I've ever seen. Each to their own. I think it is fair to say that Disneyland has made some cuts around the park this year. But I think that is down to the economic slowdown. We are going through the worst recession since the 1930's. Thats bound to have an impact on holiday resorts. The company has faced bankruptcy twice in the past. I want to see EuroDisney turning a profit so they can put that money back into the parks.
No, the parks are not Disney quality, but the gap is narrowing from both directions. And yes, this year, the decorations and entertainment (except for the hub show) were better at Legoland and Chessington, especially the amazing fireworks at Legoland.
I don't want that gap to close. Disney should be in another league, and they once were.
As for Legoland being kiddie rides, yes, some are, but I would say that the Dragon Coaster, Pirate Falls, Viking Splash, Lazer Raiders, the Spider, the Fairytale Brook and the Dinosaur cars are very much for the whole family.
Sadly, the rides at Chessington cannot compete, but the cast and the new animal experiences can.
I quite like LegoLand. But six rides suitable for adults isn't much. We saw the fireworks there last year, and we enjoyed them. But I liked Enchanted much better at Disneyland. Next year I hope to go to Disneyland for Bonfire night, I hear that's very good. Yes, Disneyland should be in another league. And it still is. They have more off everything. More rides, more shows and more restaurants. What did you think of the food at Chessington and Legoland? I didn't think it was up to much. The food isn't as good at Legoland as it used to be.
Fireworks are just exploding bits of colourful Gunpowder.. Anyone can buy the best of the best, the art is choreographing them to emotional , touching music.. Lets hope they can rediscover this back..
I for one loved the Enchanted fireworks. I thought the music was touching and emotional. I liked much better than Wishes at DLP.
Quote from: "ightenhill"Fireworks are just exploding bits of colourful Gunpowder.. Anyone can buy the best of the best, the art is choreographing them to emotional , touching music.. Lets hope they can rediscover this back..
But they do at Legoland. This year the theme was Indiana Jones, and the fireworks told a story, set to the suite of music from the 4 movies in perfect syncronization.
As for the food at Legoland, it is not as good as when it opened (I worked there that year :D ). However, the new Italian is very good, the ribs place has always been good, and the Rotisserie chicken place is good too. Not as good at the table service offerings in DLP, but perhaps some of the best in the UK for parks.
The chocolate covered waffles are to die for, and the multi flavoured pick and mix popcorn is great too.
As for Chessington and food, not great, but the Mexican place is passable. The restaurant at the Holiday Inn is very good however.
I find the fireworks at DLP depressing. So small and lack lustre (I used to love Fantasy in the Sky and the Christmas version). Having grown up at the original DIsneyland and gone to WDW on a few occassions, this is why I love the Legoland version. They do rival the US. Enchanted, and even worse, Wishes, do not.
Last year the fireworks at Legoland were set to Star Wars music. It was good. But no bigger than Thorpe Park. Still I don't think Legoland comes anywhere near to Disneyland. I mean it's not just the Enchanted fireworks over the castle in the summer. It's Fantillusion too. It's the whole atmosphere in the evening. Legoland hasn't got any of that. And 5 months of the year it's closed anyway. And the maintenance is no better, rides breakdown there too.
True, but for the cost of going and the travel involved. It is a great alternative. But it should not be.
Disneyland in Calfornia is still awesome, and improving all the time. Same in Tokyo. I want the Disney standard for our resort. They built the most amazing resort in 1992, and it has been a real bumpy ride ever since.
Quote from: "ed-uk"I'm amazed if Dave really thinks Legoland and Chessington have better Halloween themeing than Disneyland Paris. Anyway the themeing at Disneyland is far superior overall than Legoland or Chessington.
Unfortunately, I don´t know these parks. But here in Germany, Europa-Park makes a great job, and if you compare the pics... Whats now the reason to celebrate Halloween at DLP, when you have non-Disney park that makes the same good job!
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Quote from: "ed-uk"Yes, Disneyland should be in another league. And it still is.
Yes - it should. But it´s on the way to loose it! While all the other parks I know are getting better and better, Disneyland rests on his laurels.
Here in Holland we don't celebrate Halloween that much. You do have Halloween fright nights at Walibi World, but they're way too scary for me :lol: I prefer the Disney way.
I can't say I'm impressed by the Halloween decorations at Europa Park. If Disneyland Paris came up with a gaint pumpkin head like that and stuck it infront of the castle, people would complain. It looks ugly to me. A row of pumpkins hanging from a tree in another picture, what's so special about that. Nicely taken pictures though. But competition in the theme park business is good. Disneyland Paris is two theme parks, not just one. And yes a day at Legoland Windsor works out a hell of a lot cheaper than a weekend at DLP. It would do really. So you take your choice. And yes DLP has had a very bumpy ride since it opened in 1992, I agree.
Quote from: "ed-uk"I can't say I'm impressed by the Halloween decorations at Europa Park.
Hmmm - why doesn´t this wonder me? :roll:
I don't know why this doesn't wonder you? But I'm A DLP fan, I'm not really interested in Europa-Park. I'm not a Europa- Park fan. I'm a Disney Fan, which includes Disney films. That's why I post on this forum. Obviously other parks can come up with pumpkin decorations at Halloween. It is traditional.
Quote from: "ed-uk"I can't say I'm impressed by the Halloween decorations at Europa Park. If Disneyland Paris came up with a gaint pumpkin head like that and stuck it infront of the castle, people would complain. It looks ugly to me.
I agree 100% with you on that, this giant pumpkin-balloon looks awful.
Makes me wanna go there with a giant needle...
I think decorations are a matter of taste. Either you like them, or you don't like them. I've never been to the non-Disney parks discussed here, so I can't give my opinion on that. Judging only from the pictures provided, those decorations in Europa Park look cheap, especially that giant pumpkin which is even less appealing then having no docerations at all.
Yes, other parks can have better firework shows, but it's the combination of entertainment and atmosphere that gets Disneyland always on the first place. The whole environment with music, magic, light effects, projector images, the beautiful castle and the fireworks add up to being the best nighttime show in Europe. Even if the fireworks on its own is less impressing than other parks. It's that magic Disney touch.
There is no other theme park that gets me so exctited when I enter it's gates. It's a feeling of joy, excitement and happyness when I enter our magic kingdom. It was, it still is, and it always will be.
I'll say it again: Yes, the entertainment this year is less then the ones provided last year and yes, that's a shame, BUT it's understandable in the current financial climate. Keeping a complete resort with two theme parks, an entertainment disctrict and 7 hotels up and running cost a lot of money. Comparing small parks with the Disneyland Resort, where you at least need 3 full days to see all the entertainment and rides on offering, is desperately trying to find something negative to tell about Disney.
Maybe I'm a fan who forgives Disney there cuts on entertainment and maintenance more then most of you guys, maybe I am a fan who thinks 'Disney can (most of the time) only do good', but the same on the negative side can be said about some of you by only focussing on the bad things.
Well said Tuvok. Of course I agree with you. I don't think I can add much to your comments. Or put it better. Disneyland Paris is a beautiful place. Magical. I'm very happy we have a Disney theme park in Europe. Disneyland Paris always in the first place.
Quote from: "ed-uk"I'm A DLP fan...
Me, too. I personally see a problem if anyone sees things through rose-coloured glasses.
That doesn´t make things better. The Fans have the overlook of things that change, get better or get worse. And it should be their task to call attention on these things.
Ok - maybe you haven´t visited the resort in the early years. That could explain, why you don´t know how great the resort CAN be!
Seems to me DLP will always have to be inventive yet restricted (a hard combination if ever there was one) whilst they have the legal issues with heights and noise..
How did they get into such a mess in the first place, did they forget to slip the mayor of the nearest village a backhander or did they build the park too near a populated area to start with..
Just to bring the conversation back on topic a little, I'm waiting to hear what the vice-president thought when they passed on the photos.... perhaps you could follow up their reply to you with a request for his response?