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[DedicatedToDLP(Steve)]

Having taken my 2 year old son, Lucas, for the first time 2 weeks ago I'm 100% behind the Santa Fe renovations. We stayed at the Santa Fe previously in 2005 and it was dark, dull and seemed to have very little to do with Disney. When we stayed in the Cheyenne 2 weeks ago Lucas loved the fort the most - he didn't appreciate the theming of the place like we did and do. His favourite thing in DLP was Cars Quatre Roues Rallye, which is no great surprise as Lightning McQueen is his hero! After 8 visits to our beloved Cheyenne, this latest Cars refurbishment to Santa Fe will have us returning there for our next visit.

Seeing Disneyland Paris through the eyes of Lucas has changed how we look at it too. I was never bothered about a Clint Eastwood billboard before, but to have Cars there in its place is the best news possible, because I know Lucas's eyes will light up when he sees it. Then when he goes into the room and sees a Cars duvet cover and pictures, well, he'll be in heaven. I hope they add more Cars theming if I'm honest.

[pussinboots]

Well, I'm sorry, but if pleasing two-year-olds were the ultimate goal of Disney Imagineering they would surely suffice with some bright colors and moving shiny objects and never even need to bother with complex back-stories or historical research or expensive quality materials or skilled craftsmanship or any of that time-consuming stuff that toddlers fail to fully appreciate in favor of cartoon characters. But then that might be a little glance into the future there...

It was and is indeed dark and dull, but such oversimple fixes are not what any of us should be settling for. Otherwise they might as well just whip out some Christmas lights and a few disco balls and "fix" Hotel New York next.

[DedicatedToDLP(Steve)]

I don't think it's as simplistic as pleasing 2 year olds, I think it's pleasing families in general and a lot of that will come from the happiness of children. If the children love Disneyland Paris then the families will keep coming back and new generations of DLP visitors will be spawned.

I don't think changing one hotel is as drastic as some are making it out to be and the change must be revenue driven. From our own experience I'd expect a fair number of people who've stayed at Santa Fe not to return because of the lack of any real identity or atmosphere. Now with the re-branding it's a hotel that we'll more than likely book for our next visit.

A Cars themed hotel, especially with the new film coming out, is one they can market very well - how do you market the Santa Fe of old? The continued 40% off deals are an indication that occupancy is nowhere near being fulfilled and if they can capitalise on a strong brand then all power to them. They haven't taken away a classic piece of Disney history they've improved a weak link in the hotel chain, without affecting any of the other hotels for those who want to chose not have a character themed stay on the resort.

There's a new generation of Disney fans, many of which probably think Pixar is Disney. Now while you don't want to take away all the classic icons of Disney history from the park you do have to accommodate for the new fans which is where Toy Story Playland and the Santa Fe's Cars theme come into play.

[pussinboots]

I find it deeply disturbing how the concept of marketing has become a universal thing now. This sort of thinking — "how do you market the Santa Fe of old" — that's not a normal thought. That's a college degree, a college degree for greedy people with no natural skills, a very specific conundrum that was once held exclusively by a select group of boisterous men in suits in fake-wood-paneled offices. It gained popularity in Hollywood somewhere in the mid-'90s as a result of the fear that the Internet would destroy cinema, and now we're at the ludicrous point where the general population cannot see how a film unrelated to an already popular franchise could possibly be successful at the box office. Or, how a hotel without Pixar wallpaper could possibly entice anyone to stay there. It's ridiculous.

Are we really at the point where we can't just get excited about staying in a hotel with a Southwestern theme?

Anyway. Santa Fe already has a theme, and it doesn't matter if that theme doesn't have its own uber-popular Nintendo Wii game out right now. It needs to be better exploited, and the hotel needs countless very basic upgrades, but it has a perfectly workable theme.

[DedicatedToDLP(Steve)]

In answer to your question, yes, I think times have changed. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is down to personal opinion, but it's the job of DLP to exploit those changes in society. As for a Southwestern theme, that doesn't really translate so well to European audiences, young or old.

We have to have some perspective here, it's only one hotel that's getting the Pixar treatment, not all of them. For one hotel to represent the shift in public perception and desire is actually quite a minimalist move in the grand scale of things.

[MissTinkerbell]

I totally agree. It's not about just pleasing kids or adults, but both. As an adult without kids, I have to say I like the pixar movies. I think the stories are great and the characters are loveable  
Kids love to see their favourite charecters and so does many adults So I'm really supprised at how many people actually seem to get offended over a little bit of extra character incorporation. If Disney weren't to evolve over the years and cater to new generations, as well as the older ones, where would it be now?

[pussinboots]

I just don't think it's true that people will always automatically respond to familiarity — they might actually still respond to quality, heaven forbid. The biggest success in the history of Disneyland Paris is still Space Mountain, which only hinged on a century-old book forgotten by all but sci-fi history enthusiasts. Disney's only successful films nowadays are Pixar's, which are still genuine and mostly original works, whereas their artificially forged "sure-fire hits" bomb time after time (I think I hear "Tangled" coming down somewhere). That strategy you two describe may not actually work. So they may be slowly destroying their resorts and not getting any richer. Oh joy.

[MissTinkerbell]

I don't think thats what either of us is saying, and in one of my earlier post I saied there had to be a happy medeum. As I also said BTM is my favourite ride and I would hate to see it go. Take away the non-Disney thrill rides and you'll lose people but you'll also lose people if you take away the familiar Disney... Considering there are height restrictions on most of the non-Disney rides there will be lots of families visiting where only the parents can ride...

If you can keep the big average of customers happy, bring in some new without loosing the good old Disney it would be perfect  And under this subject a refurbish of Santa Fe with a touch of Cars is, to me personally, not an overpowering statement of "new"...

[DedicatedToDLP(Steve)]

I just don't think it's true that people will always automatically respond to familiarity — they might actually still respond to quality, heaven forbid.

To my mind Santa Fe wasn't quality, so adding familiarity was a good move. I wouldn't change the other hotels because I think they are of a high enough standard not to need any such enhancements.

The biggest success in the history of Disneyland Paris is still Space Mountain, which only hinged on a century-old book forgotten by all but sci-fi history enthusiasts. Disney's only successful films nowadays are Pixar's, which are still genuine and mostly original works, whereas their artificially forged "sure-fire hits" bomb time after time (I think I hear "Tangled" coming down somewhere).

With this in mind the decision to add some Pixar Cars theming to Santa Fe is surely a good thing as it's a celebration of Disney/Pixar originality, in the same vein as the previous attractions that have and still do make Disney parks so great.

[pussinboots]

I think you need to think about that last sentence a little bit longer. Let it marinate for a while.

[figaro]

I just don't think it's true that people will always automatically respond to familiarity — they might actually still respond to quality, heaven forbid.

i doubt anybody would ever put the words quality and santa fe into the same sentence with the hotel as it stands..
were staying at the santa fe in november quite franky because its the cheapest hotel and it was a last minute holiday added into an already hectic and expensive few months, we are going as a couple, but when we return next year to bring our toddler for the first time, i doubt id take him to the santa fe because id want him to have that disney magic that the santa fe just lacks to me, when its changed to a cars theme then it will be a whole different story, my whole aim as a parent is to make my child happy, and i do think a retheme will attract alot of business to this run down part of the resort, if it doesnt work out then its only a couple of pictures and bedspreads to change, i do think it will give the hotel a whole new lease of life if done properly. dont get me wrong i dont even really like cars and i fully agree that it doesnt really fit in with the other hotels etc, i wish they wouldnt have let the hotel get to the state its in but they have and now they are trying to sort it out.

i dont understand why people are moaning about it though, if you dont like it then you have a load of other hotels to choose from you dont even have to see it if you dont want to, jeeez

[davewasbaloo]

i dont understand why people are moaning about it though, if you dont like it then you have a load of other hotels to choose from you dont even have to see it if you dont want to, jeeez

Probably because we are annoyed at all the over priced hotels going into the quality toilet, or the new vision shoving toons down our throats until we either succumb or vomit.

[figaro]

i dont understand why people are moaning about it though, if you dont like it then you have a load of other hotels to choose from you dont even have to see it if you dont want to, jeeez

Probably because we are annoyed at all the over priced hotels going into the quality toilet, or the new vision shoving toons down our throats until we either succumb or vomit.

quality means different things to different people

[figaro]

i dont understand why people are moaning about it though, if you dont like it then you have a load of other hotels to choose from you dont even have to see it if you dont want to, jeeez

Probably because we are annoyed at all the over priced hotels going into the quality toilet, or the new vision shoving toons down our throats until we either succumb or vomit.

quality means different things to different people

and to be honest i begrudge paying to stay in the santa fe as its a pile of rubbish, but i will because i could never stay anywhere else than in the resort, if i had an extra couple of hundred then id be straight in the npbc but i dont. id rather stay in a room thats cars themed than a room thats shabby, dated and in dire need of a lick of paint, they are catering to lots of different people and weve just got to accept that theres going to be lots of people that are going to look in brochure and see a cars themed hotel and think yaay lets stay there, we all have different tastes,

(and i do agree that toons are making their way everywhere but i can overlook it because i know my kid will love it, and that will go a huge way into making my day a disney kind of day lol)

[dagobert]

i dont understand why people are moaning about it though, if you dont like it then you have a load of other hotels to choose from you dont even have to see it if you dont want to, jeeez

Probably because we are annoyed at all the over priced hotels going into the quality toilet, or the new vision shoving toons down our throats until we either succumb or vomit.

quality means different things to different people

What does quality mean for you?

For me a hotel that charges the prices like Santa Fe does, has to offer a nicer room, especially not furnitures and bed sheets that are 20 years old. And of course a better housekeeping and cleaning. At least the hotel gets new bed sheets, even if they are based on Cars.

By the way I'm going to stay in another Vienna International hotel next weekend. If this hotel will be as nice as the VI hotel in Prague, we will definately say good bye to the Disney hotels in Paris and we will try the VI hotels at DLRP. These hotels combined with an annual pass, so that we can use the EMH, aren't so much more expensive than Santa Fe with the difference that they offer a 4 stars quality instead of 2 stars.