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[SM:M3]

As a new member, but long time reader, I can see both sides of the argument. I mean you've gotta show some tough love.

[dagobert]

I'm not a regular guest to DLRP. I'm a student and I can only afford to go to DLRP once a year. Although I'm a big Disneyfan I want to do other vacations, too.

I try to focus just on the positive things at DLRP, because otherwise it would ruin my trip, but I like to read trip reports which feature negative things, too, and there are a lot at the moment. But what I don't understand is, why don't you tell Disney about the problems. I'm sure nobody on the forum can help you to improve the resort. Complaining on the forum will help nobody.
When I've seen a negativity at the resort, I made a complaint at the guest relation.  

When you look at other forums you realize that maintainance problems occur on every Disney park around the world, except TDR, and it looks like WDW is the worst. So I think it's really a management problem at Disney and not just the finacial situation at DLRP. Maybe it will get better with the new Parks & Resort Director the future.

Nevertheless I have to say that DLRP was in a very good condition during our last visit a year ago, compared to 2006 and 2007, and compared to WDW.

[loladelorean]

I would like to thank Magic M for her post, I feel exactly the same!
However I can understand that those of you lucky enough to visit the parks more than once a year might be more inclined to find fault. You are right, these things do need talked about.
BUT I think when Magic M posted this thread, an argument was the last thing she intended. It's called "reasons to be cheerful", can't we just have a nice post with no negative comments for once?!

[Annet]

Maybe we can put a 'reasons to complaint' topic next to this one
Although I think there already is one, with a list of things that need work.
Is anything going to happen with that list by the way? Send it to the management?

[smurfy74]

i love all the great things mentioned in the first post - I am just about to go on my 5th trip this year and have just posted a couple of days of my last trip report ( which includes some not so good things but is nearly all positive ). All the little facts mentioned I love and thats what makes us fans as we know all the extra bits and pieces that a regular guess miss, but i guess we also get upset when we dont see something we love being shown to its best.

[ightenhill]

Both sides of this thread have a valid point.

However I do take issue with the constant brow beating posts I keep reading about how it was all perfect in Walts time back in Anaheim..

Reminiscence certainly seems to paint things in a glowing light that has little to do with the reality. Paint peeled, rides broke down and guests complained even back then. The park took a long period to evolve and was in turmoil at times as people bashed there heads together whilst arguing about what should be spent next and what should happen next.

DLP is of course a magical place that does require fans to constantly point out anything it sees as not working or not being correct for a Disney park. But what we as fans see as not working and what is a real survivable market plan are two totally different things. One is based unfortunatly in modern  reality just like the other TWDC parks are at the moment and the other world WD venues. The other is pure wishful thinking with some hope thrown in, the two can meet in the middle but it's not the fans who are the experts at the end of the day.

Disney Parks and resorts across the word are simply too big to now exist without a financial plan in place to sustain survivability;in essence  Walt himself created this scenario by simply becoming so succesful with his park and then deciding not to sit back and rest on that but to satisfy the growth available  by  investing heavily and expanding rapidly;  and to be fair once a board is answering to its shareholders rather than its guests the balancing act between giving the Disney fan what he thinks should be happening and what the shareholders want to see each quarter becomes very blurred and distorted.

[Tuvok]

@ Magic M:

I 100% agree with everything you said.

@ in general:

Problems is, when you are trying to be possitive here, the dark side of this forum will treat you like you're inferior. Like you're not a true fan. Like you're the reason why some of the effects don't work or paintjobs aren't started quickly enough (I find this disturbingly hilarious, by the way). Even though you tell them that you respect their opinions, they still think their point of view is the only correct one. They seem to forget that people have different opinions and different standards. For one person, the current 'state of the resort' is bad, for the other one it's 'the most magical place they have ever been'.
This forum is here to discuss all points of view, from negative to possitive, but I thought 'respect' was also a quality we all had. Apparently, that's not the case.

I'm a regular visitor and making trips since 1997. I have an annual passport and I'm a shareholder, so very much involved with the resort. If I visit Disneyland, I don't have time to get my superzoom camera and try to find all the paint that is wearing off, or a lamp that isn't working at te moment by zooming in at maximum. It doesn't matter where you are, or what kind of Disney resort you're in, you can always find some things that don't work or need work. If some people want to spend time in finding these things, that's their business off course, but try to keep in mind that others don't care in ruining an otherwise fantastic trip.

The whole 'we are true fans and want the place to be perfect' argument is not relevant here. The relevant point is that respect for other opinions should always be there, no matter what everyone is thinking.

@ Annet:

Exactly! Tried to explain this in nearly the exact same words in another topic, but apparently, some don't realy care and continue their disrespectfull attitude.

[Anthony]

Everything pussinboots said, personally (except the Uggs).

At the end of the day, the "New Topic" button is there for a reason. We're very happy to see it being used.

It annoys me how people moan about others for being "negative" when all we're trying to do is make things better for everyone.

Have your tights and cape arrived yet?

[RnRCj]

However I can understand that those of you lucky enough to visit the parks more than once a year might be more inclined to find fault.

I visit only once a year, but actually I find the less one visits the more need there is to complain.

An example: my uncle has recently had his leg removed and is very ill in hospital (he has come close to death several times now), but we've promised to take him to DLP next year if he recovers. It's what he wants, and it will probably be the only time he will ever get to go. Because of this, I want him to have the time of his life. I want DLP to be the absolute best place in the world for him. Me and the rest of my family don't want to go through the trouble of taking him all the way there only to get half of what Disneyland should be.

I think when Magic M posted this thread, an argument was the last thing she intended. It's called "reasons to be cheerful", can't we just have a nice post with no negative comments for once?!

If the original poster hadn't started with a long rant about we who complain, I would have happily listed several things which I do like about DLP. :wink:

But in defense of complaining, who do you suppose built these parks you all so love? Perfectionists, that's who! People who mind the details, neurotics, artists who didn't settle for mediocrity. If Walt and all of his artists and engineers had not possessed these qualities, you would all be going to that dingy funfair in which Walt conceived the idea of Disneyland.

If you're saying no more nitpickers, you're saying death to Disney.

This gets a big thumbs up from me! I can't seem to put my arguments across as well as other people. :oops:

Have your tights and cape arrived yet?

Nope, but should be arriving shortly. Captain Complain will take flight within a matter of days!

[loladelorean]

@ Magic M:

I 100% agree with everything you said.

@ in general:

Problems is, when you are trying to be possitive here, the dark side of this forum will treat you like you're inferior. Like you're not a true fan. Like you're the reason why some of the effects don't work

Hear hear! I've felt guilty reading negative posts before then caught myself. Cry me down if you wish, but I don't really care if some effects don't work or some paint is chipped. There, I said it! It doesn't affect my enjoyment in any way and when I was there, if I did notice small problems, I just thought, "Disney will fix it soon enough".
I can just hear some of you tutting now, thinking that this is exactly the attitude that is "allowing" the parks to be "run into the ground". or whatever. But I stand by my position, and I'm taking it more strongly as this argument continues. Disney are not lazy, they work hard and there is constant renovation in the parks. With so many visitors, of course there will be disrepair, but for me and apparently for many others, it doesn't detract from the magic at all.
I'm a wee bit sick of reading posts where people hark back to how the park used to be etc etc. It's a beautiful place but it's not a work of art like the Mona Lisa to be looked at. It's there to experience and make memories in, and of course it doesn't look as pristine today as it did the day it opened. But I still think it's pretty darn beautiful.

You know what, I quite like the thing on the front of the castle too. Confession over

[loladelorean]

However I can understand that those of you lucky enough to visit the parks more than once a year might be more inclined to find fault.

I visit only once a year, but actually I find the less one visits the more need there is to complain.

An example: my uncle has recently had his leg removed and is very ill in hospital (he has come close to death several times now), but we've promised to take him to DLP next year if he recovers. It's what he wants, and it will probably be the only time he will ever get to go. Because of this, I want him to have the time of his life. I want DLP to be the absolute best place in the world for him. Me and the rest of my family don't want to go through the trouble of taking him all the way there only to get half of what Disneyland should be.

I think when Magic M posted this thread, an argument was the last thing she intended. It's called "reasons to be cheerful", can't we just have a nice post with no negative comments for once?!

If the original poster hadn't started with a long rant about we who complain, I would have happily listed several things which I do like about DLP. :wink:

I'm glad your uncle is getting the chance to go to DLP, I hope he (and all of you) enjoy it and that it IS the best place in the world for him. Do you think it will be or are you worried about potential problems? I'm not being sarcastic here, I genuinely want to know if you think it will spoil this important trip in any way.

And I know, I know, it's only fair to retaliate when your opinion is attacked at the outset. I guess it's just a shame that so many threads seem to turn into arguments...mind you, here I am contributing to it. I suppose it's a marker of how much we care about the parks!

maybe you could post a list of nice things as well....?  [-o<  /

[Annet]

@ Magic M:

I 100% agree with everything you said.

@ in general:

Problems is, when you are trying to be possitive here, the dark side of this forum will treat you like you're inferior. Like you're not a true fan. Like you're the reason why some of the effects don't work or paintjobs aren't started quickly enough (I find this disturbingly hilarious, by the way). Even though you tell them that you respect their opinions, they still think their point of view is the only correct one. They seem to forget that people have different opinions and different standards. For one person, the current 'state of the resort' is bad, for the other one it's 'the most magical place they have ever been'.
This forum is here to discuss all points of view, from negative to possitive, but I thought 'respect' was also a quality we all had. Apparently, that's not the case.

This is exactly what I was trying to say! But my english isn't this good, so expressing myself clearly was a little harder.

I respect anyone's opinion and it won't come to my mind to call somebody a bad fan, just because they've got a different point of view. Yes, a forum is made for discussion, but not to attack and disrespect eachother.

[pussinboots]

What is all this talk of respect? I'm sure everyone respects everyone as people. I sure do, assuming none of you have lived lives of crime (and even then I'd respect you if you'd been any good at it) or have had a hand in the canceling of Arrested Development. Opposing another's opinion is not disrespect unless nasty terms are flung about, and it seems to me that everyone is actually rather nice to everyone else around here.

Anyway, to be brutally honest for a second, I don't quite understand why people even come to a message board if they only wish to see their own views mirrored, for what would a forum be without discussion, and what would a discussion be without opposing viewpoints? The material you want is called advertising.

Now I do apologize for this bit of mind-boggling meta-discussion, but I feel it has to be said.

Furthermore, I can't think of a single member who is exclusively negative; the most likely candidates for that description just have a tendency to show their cheerier side in threads with titles like "Castle stage used for the first time in ten years" or "Pile of poo getting smaller" which are, unfortunately, sparse.

(And what would this place be without the occasional miser anyway? It'd be as dull as a film called Beauty and the Beauty.)

Both sides of this thread have a valid point.

However I do take issue with the constant brow beating posts I keep reading about how it was all perfect in Walts time back in Anaheim..

Reminiscence certainly seems to paint things in a glowing light that has little to do with the reality. Paint peeled, rides broke down and guests complained even back then. The park took a long period to evolve and was in turmoil at times as people bashed there heads together whilst arguing about what should be spent next and what should happen next.

DLP is of course a magical place that does require fans to constantly point out anything it sees as not working or not being correct for a Disney park. But what we as fans see as not working and what is a real survivable market plan are two totally different things. One is based unfortunatly in modern  reality just like the other TWDC parks are at the moment and the other world WD venues. The other is pure wishful thinking with some hope thrown in, the two can meet in the middle but it's not the fans who are the experts at the end of the day.

Disney Parks and resorts across the word are simply too big to now exist without a financial plan in place to sustain survivability;in essence  Walt himself created this scenario by simply becoming so succesful with his park and then deciding not to sit back and rest on that but to satisfy the growth available  by  investing heavily and expanding rapidly;  and to be fair once a board is answering to its shareholders rather than its guests the balancing act between giving the Disney fan what he thinks should be happening and what the shareholders want to see each quarter becomes very blurred and distorted.

It's not about whether anything has ever been perfect — nothing has — it's about intentions, I think. Walt's intentions with regard to finances were, let's face it, not a great deal more complex than "let's try not to go bankrupt," and I do agree that considering Euro Disney's frequent excursions to the edge, one can hardly blame them for being somewhat more pragmatic than their starry-eyed predecessor.

But he and his people and many of their successors possessed a great deal of zeal and ambition and competence in other departments, and it is when the lack of that becomes painfully apparent that people start to complain. When there is no money, there is no money. But when there is money and it gets spent on the wrong thing, on an unworthy attraction or an employee who isn't doing his homework or an army of employees who are rude, or on a failing corporate structure or a failing financial strategy, or all of the above, then why shouldn't people be able to lament that? (And that doesn't even cover the viewpoint that the reason why too little money is coming in is because they aren't investing enough, which Walt and 1994-era and 2007-era Euro Disney did to great success.)

And do remember that people aren't seeing a broken light bulb or some peeling wallpaper, they're seeing an institution they love deteriorate. (And when they see things improve, they breathe a sigh of relief by that same logic.) And that's what you're seeing around here. And it seems they ended up among people who just want to get in a Disney mood, and that's where this thread comes in!

[Annet]

Well I just think quotes like these are disrespectful:

Stop living in the fantasy world. You are the ones that are making DLP lose it's quality. You are the ones that have made the problems at the resort as bad as they are - by accepting them! If you carry on, it's only going to get worse! What "true" fan would want that?

I don´t understand, why people call themselve "Fans", because they ignore, what they don´t want to see!

Like I said before, I don't think discussion equals telling people they're not true fans. We're all fans, otherwise we wouldn't come here, there are just different opinions and I don't think there is an ultimate truth between them.

[RnRCj]

I didn't directly say anyone was not a true fan, I was merely stating what my concept of a true fan is. I don't understand how people can call themselves fans if they don't really care about the resort's deterioration and don't want to help to improve it.

I'm glad your uncle is getting the chance to go to DLP, I hope he (and all of you) enjoy it and that it IS the best place in the world for him. Do you think it will be or are you worried about potential problems? I'm not being sarcastic here, I genuinely want to know if you think it will spoil this important trip in any way.

To tell the truth, I would probably only focus on the good things at DLP and try to avoid anything that isn't up to the quality it should be. He wouldn't like things like the Central Plaza show or anything too child-oriented, but he would love to do things like exploring Frontierland or Adventure Isle. Having said that, today he has become very ill again and is on a ventilator. So we're not sure what's going to happen.

maybe you could post a list of nice things as well....?

I could, but it'd be way too long to post here. :wink: