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[luke85]

As Kristof wrote on the Toy Story Playland thread, it's probably a good idea to have a separate thread regarding the level of quality and Disney magic that is currently found in Disneyland Park, Walt Disney Studios and the rest of the resort.

Whether it's maintenance, merchandise, imagineering or entertainment, we all have varying opinions on where the resort should go in the future, and how it should get there.

Some may say it is severely lacking in Disney magic at the moment, whilst others may have no problem with the current state of the resort, we can discuss all our opinions here

[RnRCj]

You might as well put "FIGHT" in big letters at the top of the page. :lol:

I don't think it can be denied that DLP has lost a lot of quality in the last few years. Even compared to my first visits around 2001/02 I feel there has been quite a dramatic drop.

All I can say is I hope they realise what they're doing wrong and set things right. I really want to get that magical feeling back that I got during my first few visits.

[luke85]

Here are a few things that spring to my mind when I think about DLP at the moment...

Merchandise:
I never experienced the selection of merchandise the resort sold at the beginning, but I've seen much of it on sites like Euro Souvenirland, I would love for the resort to have location-appropriate merchandise again. Really quality items that you would only get from that particular store. It makes me sad to see so much homogenised rubbish that you know you'll see in the next store you visit or even worse, find in a Disney store back home.

Maintenance:
On the whole, I think in recent years the resort has improved its efforts with regards to keeping the parks in a decent state. But the parks shouldn't be in just a decent state, they should be so well maintained that they look like they've just opened. The same goes with Disney Village and the Hotels. I am confident that things will continue to improve in time for the 20th, but I would really love for it to be standard practice for DLP to ensure every aspect of the resort in is pristine condition all of the time.

Imagineering:
I would give anything for DLP to get original attractions. I don't just mean new additions, I mean brand new, immersive experiences which aren't based on movies. I was thinking about the Jungle Exploration jeep ride that was originally planned for Adventureland and was thinking about how great it would be if this idea was re-visited by the Imagineers!


...On a side note, stop decorating Main Street. Please. It really doesn't need any bells and whistles to entice guests, it's beautiful and charming as it is.

[dagobert]

That's a good idea to start such a thread.

The things I'm going to write are just my opinion, so if you disagree with me I'm fine. I hope I don't offend someone with the things I'm going to write.

I have been to DLRP in 2000 for the first time, but at this time I wasn't a fan of Disney and we have only been for two day trips.
In 2006 I have been the first time with my girlfriend for four days and we stayed in the Santa Fe. This time we really fell in love with Disney and decided to go there again for New Year 2006/07.
Then we have been to the USA for half a year and of course we had to go to WDW and after we returned we made again a trip to DLRP. Our last trip was a month ago.
So I would consider myself a big Disney Parks fan.

I have to say that between 2006 and 2008 the quality of the resort improved. Most of the attraction were in a very good condition during our last visit. Honestly I have never seen them in a better shape. In my opinion in 2008 the resort was in its best shape, but it really declined during the last year.

First the merchandise selection is getting smaller and cheaper. There is so much Princess merchandise, but nothing for adults. The pin selection was really big in 2008, but this year it was so small that I had a hard time to find some nice pins.

The next thing that bothers me is the quality of the hotels. You have to pay high rates, but the hotels are really not worth the money. The best Disney hotel experience we had was at WDW's Pop Century resort, a value hotel. The worst was in February at DLRP's Sequoia Lodge, a moderate hotel. I had higher expectations of such a hotel. We don't have to stay anymore at a Disney hotel, because the Extra Magic Hours are also not worth it anymore.
In 2007 and 2008 ALL attractions of Fantasyland and most of Discoveryland were open and not just the Tea Cups, Peter Pan, Dumbo, the Carousell, SM, Orbitron and Buzz. So next time we stay off site.

The food quality declined also during the last year. In 2008 they had a better variety on food and in my opinion everything tasted better. Since we are vegetarian it was mot always easy for, but in the recent years all table service restaurants were helpful and tried to satisfy us, but not last time. And you can't compare DLRP's guest service with the one of WDW. Over there we were treated like kings. DLRP's guest service could learn a lot from WDW. I don't know why the guest service was so bad last time, because the previous years it was fine, although not as great as at WDW.

The next thing that annoys me so much is that DLRP is just focusing on children anymore. You just have to look into the brochures from the last years. Not very appealing to adults. I've just looked on the HKDL homepage, there they have a special section for adults and couples.
On of the biggest mistakes DLRP didn in recent years was to change one of the best table service restaurants, Auberge de Cendrillon, into a character restaurant. I also like character restaurants, but there are already so many in the resort. For example Cafe Mickey or Plaza Garden.

Now the attractions. I think you already know that I don't like TSPL. It's such a waste of money. This money should be spent on shows and musicals. There is no good show in DLP in the moment.
I don't like TSPL just because it is not what Disney stands for. At Disney Parks you always could experience rides you couldn't find at other parks. For me Disney was always the best, but now Universal for example is really catching up.
For me TSPL is like Chester and Hester's Dinorama, very bad themed carnival rides at DAK, but maybe I'm wrong and TSPL turns out better, although I highly doubt it after seeing the parachute tower in real life a month ago.

I like Crush's Coaster a lot, it's a great ride, but the inside is not really themed. Now TSPL will not offer a great ride experience and it is even less themed.

I want to mention one last thing I don't like, the bad festivals Disney is now doing every year. The 15th birthday was really good, but MMP was not and NGF doesn't look very promising.

I know DLRP is always short on money, but it doesn't take a lot to affer real Disney quality. When they would offer merchandise in a better quality people wood spend more money, because it is worth it. But not on overpriced cheap things.
If Disney would do more advertising, more people would come. If Disney would advertise the resort to adults, I'm sure they could generate a lot of money from childless people.

After our last visit I was really angry on Disney and I had to write a complaint about all these things I have just mentioned. Hopefully I will get a good answer from them.

Nevertheless I'm still a big Disney fan and we will return next year. I really, really hope that Disney finds its way again and will offer world class entertainment again. Otherwise we have to go to another Disney resort.

I hope I was not to harsh on Disney, but while writing these lines I got really angry on Disney.

[dagobert]

Imagineering:
I would give anything for DLP to get original attractions. I don't just mean new additions, I mean brand new, immersive experiences which aren't based on movies. I was thinking about the Jungle Exploration jeep ride that was originally planned for Adventureland and was thinking about how great it would be if this idea was re-visited by the Imagineers!

...On a side note, stop decorating Main Street. Please. It really doesn't need any bells and whistles to entice guests, it's beautiful and charming as it is.

After listening to the Tim Delaney podcast again and looking at all the great pictures of attractions in the Walt Disney Imagineering books, it makes me even more angry about TSPL.

In my opinion TSPL reflects at the moment a little bit the whole Walt Disney Company. Last year they fired Dick Cook one of the most recognized studio boss in Hollywood and replacing him with someone from the Disney Channel who only will produce movies that can be exploited for merchandise.

Then closing down Miramax. This studio produced many Oscar movies, but now it looks that Disney will never win an Oscar anymore, except Pixar.

Many Imagineers left WDI or had to leave. Maybe they were demanding higher quality.

For me it looks Disney doesn't look for quality, but for quantity and how to make the most money. I do understand this since the company is responsible to the shareholders and not to the consumers. But for me it's sad and I'm not the only one who is thinking like that.

I know this was a little bit off topic.

[Tuvok]

When I first saw the title of this topic, I got excited and expecting the hear what other forummembers found 'Magical' in our resort. Instead, I found yet ANOTHER negative topic. Again, the usual bashing is posted here: merchandise is bad, maintenance is bad, entertainment is bad AND yes, a reference to the 'decorations'! What a surprise to see such a remark on Magicforum... I'm still waiting for the first post on the 'castle decorations', which should pop up in every topic eventualy...  :roll:

Before I get the usual responses about 'we want it be to as perfect as it can be' and a comparison with the US resorts, or something like that, let me point out that I respect everybody's opinion, but frankly, I'm realy getting tired of all this constant bashing and complaining.

Why is it that this forum only seems to focus on negatives, rather then also seeing the possitive side?

Back ontopic:

I think Disney Magic is very personal. Person A can find something very Magical, while person B think it's rubbish (obviously on this forum there are a lot of B persons). For me, Disney Magic is a walk from Fantasy Gardens, under the Disneyland Hotel, through the gates, arriving at Town Square, walking down Main Street and ending up in the castle. It's a feeling I can not describe. Pure Magic!
Others for example don't realy care about Main Street, but are freaking out when they see Buzz Lightyear or Woody. For them, that's Disney Magic. So is Toy Story Playland. For me, it's nothing special, but I think lots of people will get a Magical feeling walking in this new land.

No, Toy Story Playland is not an E-ticket ride/land, but at the moment that's what the Studios need, taking the current financial state of the resort in account. How about Disney quality rides like Crush's Coaster (2007), Tower of Terror (2008) or excellent shows like Stitch Live (2008), Playhouse Disney Live on Stage (2009) and Disney's Stars 'n' Cars (2009)? Suddenly those are history and the only thing counts now is bashing on Toy Story Playland, maintenance or themeyears. We got 5 new rides/shows in little more then 2 years. I mean, give them some credit, for god sake!

Currently they are facing an economic crisis where people are cutting back their spendings on trips to Disneyland or, if they do come, cutting back on their onsite spendings like merchandise or food. Wanting to have unique immersive experiences is not very realistic now is it? There is simply no money for it. The next 'unique immersive expericence' will be Ratatouille in 2013.

There is still A LOT of Disney Magic to be found at our resort. Just walk through the parks and see the looks on everybody's faces. And yes, they can always do better and if you realy think it's that bad, you can always write a letter to them (which some of you propably already did), but to keep bashing all the current offerings in every single topic is realy depressing me.

I suppose only a handful of the forummembers will agree with me, but like all the negative posts, the possitive side should also be heard.

[luke85]

When I first saw the title of this topic, I got excited and expecting the hear what other forummembers found 'Magical' in our resort. Instead, I found yet ANOTHER negative topic.

The reason this topic was started, is because it was suggested that there should be a separate topic for people to discuss the current quality situation at DLP, as the issue was taking focus in the Toy Story Playland thread.

I don't think it's fair to say that most of the forum members are negative thinkers. I LOVE the resort, but there are certain things I think should be sorted out, and I'm confident that they will get sorted out eventually, I think that shows my positivity. Just because I can see the faults in the resort, does not make me a negative member of the forum. I'm sure other forum members feel the same way.

If you don't like what people write in threads like this, then the best advise I could give you would be to ignore it. Or join in the discussions in a constructive way. There's room for everybody's opinions in this thread

[pussinboots]

Can we all just take Anthony's advice to heart and quit discussing the discussion? Either join in with something constructive or just ignore the whole thing and go bake a pie or something. And no more talk of either positivity or negativity — that is not constructive!

Anyway, quality... Well, something that of course immediately springs to my mind is food. (Ha.) I suppose because unlike, say, the merchandise, the food situation is still not completely ruined, and because it is France after all, it always bothers me to see the less-than-great dining options at Disneyland Paris. The sit-down restaurants are still rather good, but there is so much they can do about the rest.

- Outdoor vending: More variety and fresher products, please. All over France you can find crêperies where they prepare fresh crêpes on the spot, but at the Disneyland Park they warm one up for you that has been pre-made goodness knows when. Badly. Same with waffles.
- Why can't there be more pâtisserie-style products? Tokyo Disney Resort is teeming with wonderfully made up cakes and sweets, but Disneyland Paris — which is near Paris for pete's sake — only offers a comparatively small selection if homemade American fare. Although the Boardwalk Candy Palace is nothing to sneeze at.
- Whatever happened to Disney's plan to start their own coffee brand called "Theme Perks"?

For once, I'm not saying they should simply return to 1992, because frankly even back then these things weren't optimal. Neither the health craze nor the culinary one nor the frappuccino one had hit America yet, and therefore not Euro Disney either. But they have hit the world, and Disney is hopelessly behind with its crappy fast food and fatty deep-fried snack foods.

Similar rants can be held about merchandise, of course, and upkeep, and the hotels, and of course new rides... I know they THINK they'll make more money on their homogenized, cheap new strategy, but I don't think they will. As Dagobert points out, if they want people to come and spend, and come back a second and a third time, they should offer a quality product.

My dad, Joe Average Consumer, took us there back in '93 and was so shocked and impressed that we ended up going there a second time that month, and a third time not much later. He wasn't so impressed with the Studios, and his excitement for the resort has died down a lot. He can't put his finger on it, but "something's different." Yeah it is.

[dagobert]

@ Tuvok:

You are absolutely right, there is a lot of complaining at the moment and I'm no exception.

And you are also right that there is still a lot of Disney magic in the resort. You described it quiet well with your example going through DLHotel and walking down Main Street, especially on our Main Street in Paris.
Each time we enter Town Sqaure I'm amazed by this park and I forget everything around me and this special feeling is Disney Magic. At the MK in Florida I missed this special feeling when entering the park. It was just not as beautiful as the Paris MK:

For others it will be TSPL, okay, I'm fine with that. People are allowed to say that they like it and so I have to be allowed to say that I don't like it. And I'm not rude to anybody who likes it and I don't try to convince somebody. You are also right that WDS needs more rides and I agree with that too. And I'm also sure that it will be a big hit for children. They will love it and I think it is mainly supposed to be for kids.

You are also right that we have to give them credit for creating five attractions in two or three years and most of them are great. We didn't try Playhouse Disney and Stitch Live is fine for children although I will not do it again. For me it was not as good as the similar attraction at the MK. And so I will not take the seat for people especially children who like it a lot.

The reason why I wrote this long complaint a few posts earlier is that we paid a lot of money for our last visit. I really expected more from Sequoia Lodge and you can't deny that many hotel rooms are in a bad condition. And Disney should know that, so I wrote a complaint to them. There are many people who complain about the Disney hotels and so they stay off site. That means Disney will lose a lot of money. There are certain standards in the hotel buisness which the Disney hotels and Paris just don't reach. On the other hand the Disney hotels in Florida have higher standards than most of the hotels of the same level.

I just want to point out that Disney should not forget about adults who don't have children like us. I mean these adults or couples have more money to spend than families. They are just two and so they can afford more expensive hotels, they will eat at table service restaurants and they will spend more money on merchandise.

And for the merchandise you also can't deny that a few years earlier they had a better selection. Maybe people would spend more money in the parks if Disney would offer a broader variety of merchandise. I had much more money with me to buy merchandise, but I didn't find so much that appealled to me. But the situation in the US resorts isn't better. American friends of us are also complaining that the merchandise over there at WDW was also better some years ago and now they hardly buy anything there.

I didn't say that maintenance is bad, in fact I have never seen the attractions in such a good condition than in February. The parks were really beautiful.

And at last I want to make sure that I didn't want to offend anyone on this forum and I didn't want to be rude.

I'm still a big fan of DLRP and Disney and I'm sure I will return next year, because it is still the MOST MAGICAL PLACE for me.

[Tuvok]

Can we all just take Anthony's advice to heart and quit discussing the discussion? Either join in with something constructive or just ignore the whole thing and go bake a pie or something. And no more talk of either positivity or negativity — that is not constructive!

Oh yes, let's do that. Let's stop the discussion from the moment that an oposite opinion is voiced. We wouldn't want something positive to be overtaking the negative atmosphere here now would we? Thanks for proving my point so clearly, I couldn't have said it better myself!  =D>

Continue with the bashing, please. Oh wait, you already did.

I just want to point out that Disney should not forget about adults who don't have children like us. I mean these adults or couples have more money to spend than families. They are just two and so they can afford more expensive hotels, they will eat at table service restaurants and they will spend more money on merchandise.

I absolutely agree!

And at last I want to make sure that I didn't want to offend anyone on this forum and I didn't want to be rude.

I'm still a big fan of DLRP and Disney and I'm sure I will return next year, because it is still the MOST MAGICAL PLACE for me.

You're not offending me personally, Dagobert. I just wanted to point out the negative atmosphere here on the entire forum. Problem is, when you want to give your (opposite) opinion, you're either not 'constructive' or are the reason why the resort is, according to some opinions, going downhill (the last remark is not for this topic).

[pussinboots]

Oh yes, let's do that. Let's stop the discussion from the moment that an oposite opinion is voiced. We wouldn't want something positive to be overtaking the negative atmosphere here now would we? Thanks for proving my point so clearly, I couldn't have said it better myself!  =D>

Continue with the bashing, please. Oh wait, you already did.

You're missing the point. Please take a moment of your time to consider this oft-noted concept of "meta-discussion." It means a discussion about a discussion. I'm engaging in it as we speak, and regret that.

Let's look into this, shall we. Here's a hypothetical thread about a land called Toy Story Playland.
"I think Toy Story Playland is wonderful, because it's colorful," says member 1.
"I think it's awful, because I suffer from dizziness, and there will be nothing to do for me," says member 2.
"This discussion is awful! Stop it at once," says member 3. Uh-oh, now we've entered a meta-discussion. We're now talking about the discussion rather than Toy Story Playland. The thread will now derail, possibly irreparably.

See? Now let's take some responsibility for what we've both done, be adults and get back on topic.