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[Malin]

I think Davewasbaloo is corect with his views, and many European fans who visit the parks are ill informed about the other Resorts. But at the same time many of the same people don't actually apreciate or deserve this sort of high quality anyway and you only have to look at the way the Disneyland park is treated by the Guest to understand that. If the average Guest did apreciate the quality would we see so much graffiti and vandalism though out the park. Would we see rubish thrown in the water features, and finally would people urinate behind Skull Rock. Toy Story Playland in my view is built in mind for the people who disregard quality, so I feel its a good fit for the Studios.

Me personally I prefer my Disney expeiences to be above that found currently in Paris, and I'm very much looking forward to visiting the Disneyland Resort and Tokyo Disney Resort in the upcoming years. And if you still really think we shouldn't complain about what we get in Paris, I ask you all to go over the concept art for Cars Land, Mystic Point or heck even WDW Fantasyland.

[DopeyDad]

This sounds like a kind of snobbery in which only those visitors who have been going to DLP for long enough, and have the money to travel to other Disney parks around the world are qualified to have an opinion on the resort. Am I somehow wrong in believing that Disneyland Paris' magic kingdom compares very well with the other parks? If it does then I think any visitor who has been there will understand this elusive 'Disney' factor quite well and so can quite easliy apply it in casting judgement or opinion on other proposed attractions as validly as anyone else.

[davewasbaloo]

And what of those of us who dedicated a lot of our time and hard earned money because of our love of Disney. We should not have to travel to another continent to get a quality Disney expernience. Most of the Quality in DLP (except ToT) was built during the first 10 years.

Some of us have worked very hard to be able to go to these parks around the globe, or made significant sacrifices to do so. So ever stopped to think that is what has made us so passionate about our concerns?

Traffic flows in both directions.

[dagobert]

Well said Malin.

The themepark culture is more than 50 years old in the US and so there are more people who know Disney from the beginning. I'm certain that many young Americans don't look at the parks like davewasbaloo. When we have been to WDW most people were also more interested in thrill rides than in the quality of the parks.

There are still many people on Main Street or in other parts of the park and are stunned by the great theming. During my first visits to DLRP I was also more interested in thrill rides, but I fell in love with this place and so I read everything I could find about DLRP. So I think your view about the parks will change over the years. Now when we visit DLRP we don't have to ride as many rides as possible. We just want to enjoy the atmosphere of DLP.

I can compare DLRP only to WDW and except for guest service I like the European resort better. Especially WDS compared to DHS. I know that DHS is better themed, but I think we got the better attractions.

WDW has also some very chaep rides. You have just to look at the Dinoland area in DAK. Compared to this I really have to say that TSPL is more promising.

Nevertheless it's really sad when you look at the attractions that the other resorts around the globe will receive during the next years. For example Carsland at DCA, Mystic Manor and Grizzly Trail at HKDL or the Fantasyland expansion at WDW. At least TSPL will not be built in our great Disneyland park like in HKDL. That would be the worst case for me.

[davewasbaloo]

Agreed that young or new American guests don't get it either. But the difference between DLP just being a fun park to go to, and a captivating resort that keeps bringing people back are the details, and the focus on providing well rounded options that appeal to the whole family so it does not become a place just for kids (like Legoland is perceived) or for thrills (like Europa Park and Thorpe Park).

Each of these cheap things kills the Disney experience little by little.

And I agree, I would rather go to DLRP than WDW, and prefer our MK and Studios to the Florida versions. But there are elements of quality in Epcot and DAK, and especially in Disneyland and Tokyo that DLP used to compete very well on. Not so much anymore.

[davewasbaloo]

FWIW - I view TDPL being on par with Chester and Hester, and that is not in a good way.

[dagobert]

Epcot and Animal Kingdom are two great parks, our favorite parks there. Despite the bad Dinoland AK is one of the best themed Disney parks, but that's just my opinion. And Epcot is a one of a kind themepark. We enjoyed this park the most.

You are absolutely right that details bring most of the people back to the park. At least that's one reason why we are going to Disney.

[pussinboots]

Can you stop this "European fans" thing? It just comes across a little bit rude.

Then how would explain the difference? Less informed? Less experienced? Ignorant?

I don't think you need to mention where people come from at all. You can't bunch everyone together and claim that "European fans" just don't get it. Do all American Disney fans have the same opinion as yourself? Probably not, as everyone has their own thoughts and feelings about the parks. Don't assume all European Disney fans are, as you so nicely put it, "Ignorant"

Wellll... There is a difference, generally speaking of course. If you've ever read an LA Times article on Disney, or visited the Disneyland section of MiceChat, or read MiceAge for that matter, you'll have noticed the sky-high standards and expectations still in place over there. Now don't get me wrong, they're horrible people, awful, and I for one would much rather be here. But Disneyland probably wouldn't be able to get away with the cheapness that's bestowed on its French counterpart.

And when Disney's California Adventure opened, it was such a flop that it got spoofed in not one but several Simpsons episodes. I.e., what Disney does is somehow relevant to the cultural vernacular. In Europe, people don't think about a theme park as something that is significant or newsworthy or interesting in any way. It just doesn't come up in conversation unless someone is taking their kids there. Europeans discuss football, the Eurovision Song Contest, royalty, why America sucks, why railway companies suck... No one is talking about Disney. Let alone in a critical manner. Euro Disney could fill a ditch with rainwater, call it Water World, charge €40 admission and it wouldn't matter to anyone. That's the difference.

[SM:M3]

Then how would explain the difference? Less informed? Less experienced? Ignorant?

I don't think you need to mention where people come from at all. You can't bunch everyone together and claim that "European fans" just don't get it. Do all American Disney fans have the same opinion as yourself? Probably not, as everyone has their own thoughts and feelings about the parks. Don't assume all European Disney fans are, as you so nicely put it, "Ignorant"

Wellll... There is a difference, generally speaking of course. If you've ever read an LA Times article on Disney, or visited the Disneyland section of MiceChat, or read MiceAge for that matter, you'll have noticed the sky-high standards and expectations still in place over there. Now don't get me wrong, they're horrible people, awful, and I for one would much rather be here. But Disneyland probably wouldn't be able to get away with the cheapness that's bestowed on its French counterpart.

And when Disney's California Adventure opened, it was such a flop that it got spoofed in not one but several Simpsons episodes. I.e., what Disney does is somehow relevant to the cultural vernacular. In Europe, people don't think about a theme park as something that is significant or newsworthy or interesting in any way. It just doesn't come up in conversation unless someone is taking their kids there. Europeans discuss football, the Eurovision Song Contest, royalty, why America sucks, why railway companies suck... No one is talking about Disney. Let alone in a critical manner. Euro Disney could fill a ditch with rainwater, call it Water World, charge €40 admission and it wouldn't matter to anyone. That's the difference.

So true, quite simply "Europeans" (we do have individual nationalities eg. British, French, German, Spanish, Dutch, Austrian etc etc) have more important things to do and to talk about that theme parks, place where we go to escape the real world,do things we don't normally do, like visit Andy's Backyard in the form of TSPL, and no amount of whining is going to halt construction, so its time we all stepped back just a little and realised THIS IS HAPPENING whether we like it or not.
RANT OVER

ps. I and many others HATE being catergorised, for example I'm seen as thug because I am a teen but I am not a thug and I do not see my self as European, I am British, I do not think anyone sees them self as European, its like me saying "oh, those North Americans"

[RnRCj]

no amount of whining is going to halt construction, so its time we all stepped back just a little and realised THIS IS HAPPENING whether we like it or not.
RANT OVER

But we are still allowed to give our opinions on it. I hate TSPL, I am allowed to say that. Just because it is being built does not mean we have to like it. Besides, whining and moaning may help just a smidge to make sure sure something as awful as TSPL never happens again.

And by the way, no need for the caps, it sounds like you're shouting. :wink:

[SM:M3]

no amount of whining is going to halt construction, so its time we all stepped back just a little and realised THIS IS HAPPENING whether we like it or not.
RANT OVER

But we are still allowed to give our opinions on it. I hate TSPL, I am allowed to say that. Just because it is being built does not mean we have to like it. Besides, whining and moaning may help just a smidge to make sure sure something as awful as TSPL never happens again.

And by the way, no need for the caps, it sounds like you're shouting. :wink:

Yeah I know exactly what you mean, they built an "synthetic turf pitch" read astro turf at school and I despise it, and I'm not too happy at TSPL. But 3 attractions in a dead park don't mean Disney is self-imploding when things like Grizzly Trail, Mystic Point, WDW Fantasyland are coming, it just means we got the bum deal. It just annoys me that people are acting like its the end of Disney forever

[pussinboots]

But 3 attractions in a dead park don't mean Disney is self-imploding when things like Grizzly Trail, Mystic Point, WDW Fantasyland are coming, it just means we got the bum deal. It just annoys me that people are acting like its the end of Disney forever

I think people are pissed off because we got the bum deal. Again.

[SM:M3]

But 3 attractions in a dead park don't mean Disney is self-imploding when things like Grizzly Trail, Mystic Point, WDW Fantasyland are coming, it just means we got the bum deal. It just annoys me that people are acting like its the end of Disney forever

I think people are pissed off because we got the bum deal. Again.

Yeah, we did and we are all pissed off but we've had I don't know, a year?, to get used to this. Its just Hong Kong got something great to sweeten the blow of Toy Story Land, so by rights we should get something great to soften the blow of Playland, anyone for new E-Tickets; Ratatouille, The Little Mermaid, Star Tours 2 (Perhaps That's A D-Ticket) but this won't be the only expansion we get, there will be more, some amazing, some good and some crap

[Riebi]

Sorry but why this rudness here??

"It's not what you say, but how you say it."

Let´s face it: TLPL is not everyones taste.

For this "European Fan" thing I have to say, that Disneyland Paris was on a very good way after 1997 with it´s best themed MK in the world. You can clearly see in figures that the "European Fans" don´t like(d) WDS in 2002. Why? Cause it wasn´t Disney quality. So this "European" - "American" long theme park tradition thing is absolutly rubish for me and makes me angry. The "European Fans" knows very well which quality of a theme park they want and they know even better that WDS isn´t the Disney quality that they would expect. WDS would simply be a success if they won´t get this point. But it isn´t we all know that.

About this "American park feeling everything better and nicer thing" I can only say: NO! It isn´t. Sorry but every "European Fan" which get for much much money to an american Disney resort with all this overrated dreams and hopes about the extremly high quality of Disneyland Anaheim or WDW will just be one thing: Very disapointed. Like I said before DL Anaheim isn´t the glory land. It´s a Disney Theme park with strengthes and weaknesses like every disney theme park in the world.

And for the invest: They built ToT, Crush, Cars... all in a very short time scale. It´s not like Paris won´t get anything. And I remember quiet well that we talked some time before about the poor american resorts that seems not to get one new attraction.

So maybe we can focus again on TSPL and not on European Fans, weird belief in US or J Resorts and other rudeness. Facts and opinions not affronts.

meantime I´m thinking that´s a fighting club here. not the magicforum.

[davewasbaloo]

>>>meantime I´m thinking that´s a fighting club here. not the magicforum.<<<

Well maybe that's life. Indeed the US parks are not what they used to be either.

But there are definately different tastes in different markets, and a strong locals market as in California and Japan will not put up with poor choices. Disney tend to sort the issues out. In WDW and DLP, this is not so much the case.

Clearly with the attitudes that everything is fine, then you all get what you deserve.