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[pussinboots]

You've got a point there, although I always had the impression that several survey's of Disneyland Resort Paris showed that Fantillusion was one of the most popular and succesful pieces of entertainment at the Resort. I can't find the survey's anywhere, so I might be wrong, but at least that is my impression. The view of many Americans about Fantillusion seem to be negative, but well, most aspects of Disneyland Resort Paris are critizised by Americans. I bet that if Fantillusion still performed at Tokyo these days, it wouldn't have had such negative reviews as you described. Ofcourse the parade contained far more floats back then, but at least the parade has a reasonable size now. By the way, I'm not the kind of person who's always positive about DLRP, but when it comes to Fantillusion, I think its unfair to label it as dull or bad... No, offense. :wink:

So gooood that they find a parade that the europeans like. Near Paris. France. Europe  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Well I didn't mean to imply that Americans should be the ones to decide what Europeans should like obviously, but it just so happens that I attended the premiere of Fantillusion in DLRP with a set of actual Europeans, and their unanimous response: "Meh."

But everyone is entitled to their opinions obviously. It's just hard for me to grasp that so many of you have the patience to sit through Fantillusion's many, lengthy stops or scoff at SpectroMagic's score.

Oh and Americans love DLP! Jealousy abounds whenever Big Thunder or Space Mountain comes into view, or when it is realized that DLP's castle has a dragon, etcetera. But Americans know show business, and a choppy, downsized evening parade won't get a thumbs up easily.

[Its Just Like I DreamedIt]

I hope they don't replace Fantillusion, its not old or dated I think its still fresh and had many years to go!

[pussinboots]

By the way, check out the way it was presented in Tokyo:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Guz-9-TA8RU

Not to annoy anyone in an "anything DLP can do TDR can do better" sort of way, but check out the sheer number of dancers they had... I suppose that may have something to do with the way it's sometimes received in Paris.

[Kristof]

By the way, check out the way it was presented in Tokyo:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Guz-9-TA8RU

Not to annoy anyone in an "anything DLP can do TDR can do better" sort of way, but check out the sheer number of dancers they had... I suppose that may have something to do with the way it's sometimes received in Paris.

Sometimes people seem to forget that Tokyo Disneyland has a lot more spending per guest, meaning their budget for attractions and especially entertainment is much much much higher.  And maybe also interesting to point out that Euro Disney SCA has something called a debt...

Search eBay for the official Tokyo Disneyland DVD for a better quality video.  Most dancers look very very very disturbingly freaky. That's something DLRP did better.

[Riebi]

In my opinion this discussion takes now the wrong direction.

I don´t see that the europeans has a worth show bus taste. It´s just another. It´s again a bit like "Let the us teach the europeans what´s entertainment!". And the stupid europeans wouldn´t learn something.  :lol:
I remember that´s they give this attitude a try at the times of opening euro disneyland. I remember also an american CM crying in the camera: "Oooooh it´s like USA in Europe and you don´t could see any differences!!!" She was very proud about this but we all know that this was the wrong way. The Euro Disney S.C.A. has learned that Europe isn´t US. Hard thing but it´s simply another cultural background. And that´s a fact to accept.

The parades has passed this process too. The very big imagination parade was a big flop in Disneyland Park and Fantilusion got also another cut after a float was too boring for them cause it had no transformation sequenz. So it seems that the europeans don´t want it just big, they want a special quality. This quality is often misunderstood by other cultural background as tooo small. But I don´t think that the guests at Disneyland Paris would stay over 30 minutes just watching an parade. Parades aren´t that intersting for them. Nice to have and look but nothing to pay more for.
And because we are now in money cases: Yes they have not much money and very small budgets for all entertainment things. But they do their very best as the 15. birthday shows. With quality, delightful, aesthetic, elegant, just the european way of disney.

But what was the topic here? Aaaaah Spectromagic. So we should close this discussions about diffrent show styles and go back to the core. (And I don´t think that americans are thinking becoming a 16 years old parade would be a good step into the future)

Maybe we should simply collect positives and negatives about spectromagic and what we want instead of spectromagic/Fantilusion in the future.

[pussinboots]

In my opinion this discussion takes now the wrong direction.

I don´t see that the europeans has a worth show bus taste. It´s just another. It´s again a bit like "Let the us teach the europeans what´s entertainment!". And the stupid europeans wouldn´t learn something.  :lol:
I remember that´s they give this attitude a try at the times of opening euro disneyland. I remember also an american CM crying in the camera: "Oooooh it´s like USA in Europe and you don´t could see any differences!!!" She was very proud about this but we all know that this was the wrong way. The Euro Disney S.C.A. has learned that Europe isn´t US. Hard thing but it´s simply another cultural background. And that´s a fact to accept.

The parades has passed this process too. The very big imagination parade was a big flop in Disneyland Park and Fantilusion got also another cut after a float was too boring for them cause it had no transformation sequenz. So it seems that the europeans don´t want it just big, they want a special quality. This quality is often misunderstood by other cultural background as tooo small. But I don´t think that the guests at Disneyland Paris would stay over 30 minutes just watching an parade. Parades aren´t that intersting for them. Nice to have and look but nothing to pay more for.
And because we are now in money cases: Yes they have not much money and very small budgets for all entertainment things. But they do their very best as the 15. birthday shows. With quality, delightful, aesthetic, elegant, just the european way of disney.

But what was the topic here? Aaaaah Spectromagic. So we should close this discussions about diffrent show styles and go back to the core. (And I don´t think that americans are thinking becoming a 16 years old parade would be a good step into the future)

Maybe we should simply collect positives and negatives about spectromagic and what we want instead of spectromagic/Fantilusion in the future.

I'm sorry, I should have known this would be a touchy subject. I don't really see why this needs to be turned into an issue of nationalism or xenophobia, though; throughout history, nations have had their fortes for the rest of the world to benefit from. We all enjoy Asia's innovations in technology, Sweden's clever solution to furniture prices, Greece gave us that nice concept called democracy... And current day America does show business better than anyone. Big deal. Everyone saw "Titanic".

And when DLRP cuts another float out of Fantillusion, we all know it's to cut costs, not because someone complained that it wasn't kinetic enough for their taste. And yes, Raptor, this is because they have that debt, we know.

DLRP's attendance numbers seem to be good. Let's just hope it continues, and then maybe someday soon they'll be able to present a fuller version of Fantillusion, and then everyone will be happy, and there will be no reason for SpectroMagic or any replacement until the year 2013.

[Riebi]

I'm sorry, I should have known this would be a touchy subject. I don't really see why this needs to be turned into an issue of nationalism or xenophobia, though; throughout history, nations have had their fortes for the rest of the world to benefit from.

Sure and I think Euro Disney S.C.A. have respect the diffrent fortes in the past 13 years of magic    I don´t see any xenophobia or nationalism in this topic. And I don´t see a touchy subject :lol:  It´s just a bit respect for diffrent cultures and points of views. And I don´t like this "Americans are...Europeans are....Asians are..." cause I have the strong feeling that most of this things aren´t really true. Maybe because it doesn´t exist the typical European. Its more a melting pot with diffrent languages and diffrent cultures and states but the wonderful thing is: They like each other    And after years now I think the french like Disney also  very much now. That´s the biggest success for DLRP.  

DLRP's attendance numbers seem to be good. Let's just hope it continues, and then maybe someday soon they'll be able to present a fuller version of Fantillusion, and then everyone will be happy, and there will be no reason for SpectroMagic or any replacement until the year 2013.

Yes! Fill up a parade a bit is always wonderful. Maybe during the big party final. They just give the OUADP some new dancers and costumes. Nice work also for fanti. And after 2013 a remplacement with something totally new would be a nice thing! :mrgreen:

[pussinboots]

Sure and I think Euro Disney S.C.A. have respect the diffrent fortes in the past 13 years of magic    I don´t see any xenophobia or nationalism in this topic. And I don´t see a touchy subject :lol:  It´s just a bit respect for diffrent cultures and points of views. And I don´t like this "Americans are...Europeans are....Asians are..." cause I have the strong feeling that most of this things aren´t really true. Maybe because it doesn´t exist the typical European. Its more a melting pot with diffrent languages and diffrent cultures and states but the wonderful thing is: They like each other    And after years now I think the french like Disney also  very much now. That´s the biggest success for DLRP.  

Yes! Fill up a parade a bit is always wonderful. Maybe during the big party final. They just give the OUADP some new dancers and costumes. Nice work also for fanti. And after 2013 a remplacement with something totally new would be a nice thing! :mrgreen:

Well, one should never generalize, but I do think Americans grow up in a culture that feels very strongly about getting "bang for your buck". That's why Disney's California Adventure was so publicly panned and the Walt Disney Studios opened without a big scandal, while the latter was probably even worse than the former. This has nothing to do with the individual, but there are cultural differences.

Anyway, I'm getting in far too deep. I suppose what I want to say is that while DLRP is great and all those European influences on it are great as well, one should not justify every low, cost-cutting decision Euro Disney makes as being a "European thing" or even that it's understandable because of that debt. Remember that we still pay through the nose to experience these parks! A little American-style criticism can be a good thing every once in a while.

[Riebi]

Could be that Disneyland or Disney is for Americans more like their baby. I think the europeans do not criticise it much cause it doesn´t really matter for them. They just stay away if they don´t want it  :mrgreen: That what happend after opening the WDS  :arrow:  Small and not as much quality as Disneyland park? Why going there!  :lol:
Hope that´s changing now with the new attractions!

But we ´re drifting again away from the topic!  :mrgreen:

So let us make a bang for a NEW night parade after 2012 :lol:  Not a low budget version  :mrgreen:

Maybe we should collect what we want in a nighttime parade with examples from the others. Things we loved and things we hated their.

[Maarten]

Although this is way offtopic, I thinks this is rather an interesting discussion that seems to pop up once in a while.

Well, one should never generalize, but I do think Americans grow up in a culture that feels very strongly about getting "bang for your buck". That's why Disney's California Adventure was so publicly panned and the Walt Disney Studios opened without a big scandal, while the latter was probably even worse than the former. This has nothing to do with the individual, but there are cultural differences.

I guess this has everything to do with the fact that Disney is very much represented in American society and the history of American entertainment. In Europe, many Europeans still don't know there are actually 2 Disney parks near Paris... they don't get the Resort concept either, which is why Disneyland Resort Paris is once again called Disneyland Paris in its publicity campaigns. But don't forget that Walt Disney Studios has been panned a lot aswell, especially by themepark fans who read the American discussion boards to. It seems that Americans are more vocal about a subject like a Disney themepark, especially since Disney seems to be America's pride, like Riebi mentioned.

To be honest, if there is one nation in the world that made entertainment to what it is now, its the United States. No one will argue about that. And many people know that if Disney launches something new, its stand for quality (wheter this is the truth or not). Americans have the image that no one can do entertainment better then them, so whatever they do, it must be quality. At least thats the impression I get from other people. On the other hand it makes you think why Walt Disney Studios didn't cause such controverse as Disney's California Adventure indeed.

Unlike the Americans, we don't hear as much negative news about the degrading of Disney (SaveDisney.com, Comcast bid etc)... Don't forget that the American view on Disney isn't the same as other countries might have, simply because Disney isn't such a huge part of our socities.

[pussinboots]

True, Disney is America's baby; Europeans are probably more like apathetic babydaddies who visit their baby every once in a while and then don't think about it much after that.

And California in particular has the perfect culture to sustain this; DCA was slagged off twice on The Simpsons, and I'd need both hands to count the references to Disney's other products on that show alone. And the LA Times keeps track of every move Disney makes. You can't say that about any French newspaper. California creates pop culture and takes it very seriously.

But, in an attempt to climb back on topic, I really hope the upcoming summer season will reflect the resort's recent success at least a little, and that such luxuries as dancers or including more than 10 floats in a parade will finally become feasible again. Perhaps Fantillusion won't seem so monotonous then. And that's being very modest. Although I highly doubt it.

[Riebi]

True, Disney is America's baby; Europeans are probably more like apathetic babydaddies who visit their baby every once in a while and then don't think about it much after that.

Noooo they have their own babies  :wink:
 :lol:

But the integration of Disney in the europe culture is a disney made problem. at least in germany like I mentioned in this topic here:
//http://www.photosmagiques.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3579

If you don´t bang the drum nobody will hear you. Mean: The mother seems here to be a bit apathetic  :lol:

For the floats I can support this totally. It shouldn´t be the point how many floats a parade has. OUAD Parade has 8 floats and is wonderful and totally close. I won´t add there again 8 new.
Maybe they should have a look on it and give night parades more little features like the dancers but also like more little vehicles. I remember the little bugs of MSEP that were great fun for the guests.

[Japper]

But Americans know show business, and a choppy, downsized evening parade won't get a thumbs up easily.

Well.. if you compare the WDW day-parade and evening-parade with the ones we have, I doubt that they are that much harder to satisfy.. I think the european audience just looks for something different in a spectacle or a parade then the Americans do.

I really love Fantillusion! The stops are great with all the special effects and the music is just awesome.

[pussinboots]

Noooo they have their own babies  :wink:
 :lol:

But the integration of Disney in the europe culture is a disney made problem. at least in germany like I mentioned in this topic here:
//http://www.photosmagiques.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3579

If you don´t bang the drum nobody will hear you. Mean: The mother seems here to be a bit apathetic  :lol:

For the floats I can support this totally. It shouldn´t be the point how many floats a parade has. OUAD Parade has 8 floats and is wonderful and totally close. I won´t add there again 8 new.
Maybe they should have a look on it and give night parades more little features like the dancers but also like more little vehicles. I remember the little bugs of MSEP that were great fun for the guests.

It seems to me the original Fantillusion (in TDL) had a lot more of those "bugs" as well; I'm sure those 16(!) floats they eliminated in Paris weren't all full-sized. One of them was a separate float that displayed the parade's name. SpectroMagic has them too, most famously the spinning balls with the clown figures that seem to creep everyone out.
Their absence is a very big part of the reason why DLRP's Fantillusion comes off as boring to some, that's for sure.

Well.. if you compare the WDW day-parade and evening-parade with the ones we have, I doubt that they are that much harder to satisfy.. I think the european audience just looks for something different in a spectacle or a parade then the Americans do.

I really love Fantillusion! The stops are great with all the special effects and the music is just awesome.

Point taken. I suppose I should have said Californians.

[Timbo]

I've seen Spectromagic several times , and really liked it at the time;but when I look back at the videos of that and compare it with Fantillusion,it looks really dated ! The floats in Fantillusion are far brighter and more detailed,seems like there is more going on.But I don't like the stops in Fantillusion,they really seem to break up the flow of it and not much really goes on ,your just waiting for it to start again.I suppose it is a clever way of getting more showtime without more floats or dancers etc.Of course nothing compares to MSEP !!!