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[DutchBrit]

Randomly whilst I was washing up today this question popped into my head and it's meant without any underlying meaning or intention, but to those of you actively opposing the increase in "toons" invading DLP, namely forza_united and davewasbaloo, do you like the Disney films? Or is your love affair solely with Disneyland and Disneyworld?  

By and large, I'd say that the vast majority of european people who are likely to say that their attachment to the parks is greater than their attachment/familiarity with the films are a)under 20 and b) French. How can it really be otherwise? I'm considerably older than 20, and when I was growing up, people didn't tend to go to America on holiday, and even if they did, it certainly didn't happen every year. So Disney was the films, and Disneyland was a semi-mythical place where Mickey, Minnie et al lived. When you combine that with my (european) tendancy to believe that theme parks are supposed to appeal to children more than adults, I guess it's pretty easy to work out why I simply can't get upset about character themeing in Disneyland....!

However I do of course agree that what they have should work, the parks and hotels should be clean and that something ought to be done about the quaility and value for money of the food.

[Patrick89]

More live entertainment, better maintenance so everything works like new (if a 56 year old park can do it, surely a 20 year old park could), better cleanliness etc. Add in a night time show. Bring back the variety in shops and restaurants, and bingo, you have a world class Disney park again. .

That's so true. I loved going into every shop crossing my path, because each of them had its on atmosphere and souvenirs you couldn't get elsewhere.

Concerning the focus on kids in the recent past: Why should kids prefer TSPL or Crush's Coaster over BTM or POTC? Just because there are toons in the former? When I was young, I was more fascinated by the attractions where no toons appeared. I wanted to know everything about the stories behind the attractions, there was a thirst for knowledge concerning the rides like PM, BTM, De la terre à la lune etc. The mysteries of the rides captivated me. That was the reason why I could ride them again and again. And today we have BLLB, where the only secrets are some hidden targets. While I wasn't bored of other attractions in 15 years, I grew tired of Buzz after 2 days.

we have a toon train with pop music and character dancing.

Also great: This Stitch show in the shadow of Space Mountain. Of course this is much better than the Jules Verne theming... :-"

[DopeyDad]

:lol:

now that was a masterpiece wasn't it
it really brought adults and children together as they all thought 'what the hell is all this about?'

[davewasbaloo]

Lol. BTW Disney Brit, it was Walt Disney who developed the idea of Disneyland to be a place for all ages and not just kids or thrill seekers. He got tired of just watching his daughters sit on the merry ground while he sat on the bench. We thought carnivals were too seedy, and he wanted something to stretch and treat everyone the same, maturally.

I grew up being indoctronated by this idea, and other parks in the US (and elsewhere) have tried to copy it. If you still think the after 19 years of DLP being open, parks should be for kids, well, you are entitled to your opinion. But it also evidences that DLP have failed to truly bring the vision to Europe.

In the US, that was the view before DL opened. Parks for kids, or for date nights where kids do not belong after dark (Like Coney Island in NYC). Disneyland changed it all in the US 56 years ago next month. Sadly Iger and his minions do not pay attention, and in Paris it is even worse.

Little darlings being done up in costumes and meeting the characters should only be a small part of the menu. In DLP, it is the main. And I am fed up of it, hence my campagning, lobbying and use of the boards.

But this year's Magical Moments festival and the brochure for this winter show the resistance is futile so it seems. Though what is interesting is I used to be a lone voice pretty much about this stuff. Now, look how many others are vocalising.

Even folks who go to DLP every 3 or 4 years are starting to notice. That is terrible.

[DutchBrit]

I grew up being indoctronated by this idea, and other parks in the US (and elsewhere) have tried to copy it. If you still think the after 19 years of DLP being open, parks should be for kids, well, you are entitled to your opinion. But it also evidences that DLP have failed to truly bring the vision to Europe.

Perhaps visions also have a life-span.

I didn't actually say just "for" kids: I said appeal mostly to children and be somewhere where "age relives fond memories of the past" and enjoy those childhood things again. To use my Harry Potter example again, I enjoyed the books very much. But they are children's books. To dress them up in arty covers and pretend otherwise is slightly pathetic, in my opinion.

I was an adult when I first went to Disneyland. So I appreciate the care with which the facades are built, but I can't be made to believe that they are not facades. I can enjoy them, and I can very much enjoy my son enjoying them, but they can't be magic for me like they are for him. As I happen to think magic is pretty damn important for children, I prefer that it's directed at him, who gets the most from it!

So if they make a spectacular and imaginative ride, I'm not going to have a fit if it's based on a well-know and well loved Disney character/film. And only Disney CAN do that: Europa park or Legoland are hardly going to start building the Little Mermaid ride, are they? Makes sense to capitalise on a monopoly, when you've got it.

[kate&phoo]

Randomly whilst I was washing up today this question popped into my head and it's meant without any underlying meaning or intention, but to those of you actively opposing the increase in "toons" invading DLP, namely forza_united and davewasbaloo, do you like the Disney films? Or is your love affair solely with Disneyland and Disneyworld?  

By and large, I'd say that the vast majority of european people who are likely to say that their attachment to the parks is greater than their attachment/familiarity with the films are a)under 20 and b) French. How can it really be otherwise? I'm considerably older than 20, and when I was growing up, people didn't tend to go to America on holiday, and even if they did, it certainly didn't happen every year. So Disney was the films, and Disneyland was a semi-mythical place where Mickey, Minnie et al lived. When you combine that with my (european) tendancy to believe that theme parks are supposed to appeal to children more than adults, I guess it's pretty easy to work out why I simply can't get upset about character themeing in Disneyland....!

I disagree! I'm not much of a Disney film fan. I love Mary Poppins but although I like other Disney films I would probably never go go the cinema to watch one and as, I think, someone else said I always preferred Warner Brothers animation over Disney. Maybe I'm in the minority but personally I almost cometely regard DL as a complete separate entity to the films and tv programmes. Oh and I'm neither French nor under 20.

I do agree what you say in your other post about monopolizing their strengths and needing to improve the quality of their food though - sorry I'm typing this on my iPhone and can't multiquote!

[davewasbaloo]

Nope, while DCA got an ok Little Mermaid ride, Legoland got an awesome submarine ride with real sharks.

[DutchBrit]

Nope, while DCA got an ok Little Mermaid ride, Legoland got an awesome submarine ride with real sharks.

Great. So when my son is more interested in sharks than Lightening McQueen, I can take him to Legoland or any of the many other parks/zoos which have sharks. And of course when his interest in lego gets a bit more active, Legoland will be a good place to take him anyway. Because that's THEIR monopoly...

Out of interest, would this ride be based on Lego's new range of Atlantis products? With the subs and sea monsters etc? So it's OK for them to exploit their products in their parks but not Disney?

[stevenlatham01]

Personally anymore live bands would not make much a difference to me. We did see a brass band in main street square for a few minutes on one afternoon which was good but I would not say it would bring me back. I can see it would have appealed more to people older than me though. We also had a live music (singer and guy on a keyboard) in our hotel (Hotel New York) on the Saturday night. Live music at the hotel would appeals to me more and I was surprised it was only on the one night for a 4 star hotel of that size.

I world prefer they spent some of the 500m on another adult themed outdoor coaster rather than dark rides. I think there are enough dark rides at DLP and WDS. I can see why they do it, climate, probably easier to theme, cheaper to maintain, easier to hide the ride from the rest of the park, etc. but I think a lot of the fun gets lost when you can't see anything. Peter Pan was such a let down for me and my daughter. Everyone on this forum loves it so we were really looking forward to it but all I could see was Big Ben and lots of curtains with little lights on them. Space mountain was the worst coaster I think I have ever been on. The special effect were so dated and so faded. I did not go on Crush as there was no fastpass and could not waste an hour queuing but I have heard that is good.

Taking into account inflation how much would it cost to build another ride like Indiana Jones et le Temple du Péril? I thought that was the best ride there.

[kate&phoo]

Personally anymore live bands would not make much a difference to me. We did see a brass band in main street square for a few minutes on one afternoon which was good but I would not say it would bring me back. <snip>
I world prefer they spent some of the 500m on another adult themed outdoor coaster rather than dark rides. I think there are enough dark rides at DLP and WDS. I can see why they do it, climate, probably easier to theme, cheaper to maintain, easier to hide the ride from the rest of the park, etc. but I think a lot of the fun gets lost when you can't see anything. Peter Pan was such a let down for me and my daughter. <snip>

Taking into account inflation how much would it cost to build another ride like Indiana Jones et le Temple du Péril? I thought that was the best ride there.

And therein lies the beauty of Disneyland, I don't really give two hoots about the rides and I have a little girl who, even though she loves Peter Pan and Snow White; absolutely detests the rides and will only really go on POTC, IASW, the teacups and carousel. I go to Disney for the theming, the atmosphere and the fact that I know I can go with my little girl and be completely safe and happy and never have to struggle for something to do.

I think she'll like TSPL when we go in March too, although she really isn't big on the characters. We both love the shows in WDS  

I guess everyone has their own reasons for loving Disneyland...?

[ed-uk]

Out of interest, would this ride be based on Lego's new range of Atlantis products? With the subs and sea monsters etc? So it's OK for them to exploit their products in their parks but not Disney?

Exactly, and it's impossible for me to take seriously now. Disney, Mack, Merlin they're are all there to make money selling their merchandise. I find it hard to make comparisons between Legoland, Merlin parks and DLP. Coloured plastic bricks and ugly, steel Roller Coasters, that's Legoland and Merlin for me. There's much more for adults without children to do at DLP than Legoland, and I should know because I've been, too. I love classic Disney animation, and I have no trouble with Disney story telling in Disneyland, their rides and shows. To me it's all Disney, it's the same company behind both, and Walt Disney was the founder of the company, he created the films and Disneyland. I love Peter Pans Flight. Peter Pan was my favourite story when I was a child, I love the film and when I go to DLP I always make sure I go on the ride. And if some people get sick and tired with things to do with Walt Disney, they might just as well go to Europa Park, they won't find anything to do with him there.

[Burzgrokash]

For crying out loud! Bring us back the olde days, where no Buzz Lightyears invaded Discoveryland, where no Jack Sparrows ruined great Dark Rides, where you couldn't buy a Laser Gun in a Pirate-themed souvenir shop...I could continue this for hours. It's sad, isn't it?

[ed-uk]

Or to put it another way, how does Buzz Lightyear fit into Jules Vernes Discoveryland ? The same way as Star Tours, Hista and Captain EO.

[Burzgrokash]

Out of interest, would this ride be based on Lego's new range of Atlantis products? With the subs and sea monsters etc? So it's OK for them to exploit their products in their parks but not Disney?

You are right. It is not ok for Disney to exploit their products, because they are selling out all the ideals Walt Disney had, when he created Disneyland in California.
The stories behind every stone and tree in Magic Kingdom (written by the Imagineers) was, what defined Disneyland Paris. What made it special in comparison to the other parks like Legoland.
Now they're replacing every stone and tree with tons of buzz lightyear figures and (even worse) Jack Sparrow figures.
I mean the Jules Verne Theme in Discoveryland was unique (!)...gone...replaced by Buzz Lightyears.

[SM:M3]

Or to put it another way, how does Buzz Lightyear fit into Jules Vernes Discoveryland ? The same way as Star Tours, Hista and Captain EO.

Discoveryland is a celebration of visionaries, and George Lucas was considered a visionary to the Imagineers of the time. HISTA and Buzz show no visionary thinking, and I hope whichever idiot thought it would be a fantastic idea to add a multicoloured toy themed shooting ride to Discoveryland and the Studios has subsequently had creative decisions removed from them.